What’s Up With Masturbation?
June 17, 2009
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The word “masturbation” is thought to have been derived from the Greek word mezea, which means “penises.” It could have also been derived from the Latin words, manus (“hand”) and turbare (“to disturb”). According to the Microsoft Encarta Dictionary, masturbation is to “give yourself or somebody else sexual pleasure by stroking the genitals, usually to orgasm.” Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary states that “the stimulation can be performed manually, by other types of bodily contact (short of sexual intercourse), by use of objects or tools, or by some combination of these methods.”
There are archeological records of humans masturbating that go back as far as 6,000 B.C. In the land of Sumer, often known as the “Cradle of Civilization,” the ancient Sumerians believed that masturbation was a technique used to increase a man’s sexual prowess. It was viewed as part of normal activities for daily life, neither to be shunned away from nor considered taboo. The ancient Egyptians viewed masturbation superstitiously while the ancient Greeks were rather casual about it.
At the other end of the spectrum, masturbation was considered illegal in some societies. The 17th century law code of the Puritan colony of New Haven, Connecticut, considered masturbation as a crime punishable by the death penalty. The 18th century philosopher, Immanuel Kant, viewed masturbation as a violation of universal moral law. Until today, the Roman Catholic Church still officially condemns masturbation as a mortal sin.
The American researcher Alfred Kinsey (1894-1956) and others estimated that during the mid-20th century, at least 92% of all males and 70-80% of all females have indulged in masturbation at some point in their lives. European studies show comparable figures to support Kinsey’s research. Kinsey also found that 40% of men and 30% of women in relationships (marriage or dating) masturbate regularly. In his 2005 book, The Sexual Man, Dr. Archibald Hart reveals that 61% of married Christian men masturbate.
The December 10, 2008 issue of The Sun reports that the “Gossard Big M Survey” done a year earlier found that 92% of UK women aged 18-30 masturbate. Two-thirds of women admit to pleasuring themselves three times a week, with women in London finding time for four sessions every seven days. A 2004 study done in Toronto, Canada, found that males begin masturbating as early as 10 years old while some females (6%) may begin before the age of six.
Some of the generally accepted benefits of masturbation include the following: (1) It is a good way of relieving sexual tension that can build up over time, especially for people without partners, or whose partners are not willing or available to have sex. (2) It is a safe sexual alternative for people who wish to avoid pregnancy and the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases. (3) It is necessary when a man must give a semen sample for infertility testing or for sperm donation. (4) It is a standard prescription given by sex therapists to treat sexual dysfunction in an adult, helping a person to experience orgasm (often in women) or to delay orgasm (often in men).
The big question here is: can a Christian masturbate? Is it morally right or wrong? Those who argue against it claim that masturbation is unnatural, and may result in God’s judgment on the body later on in life (in the form of physical ailments). Others claim that it is an irresponsible means to attain sexual satisfaction without the “burden” of commitment. Spiritual giants like C.S. Lewis and John Calvin were both strongly against it.
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What about those who are not averse to it? Mark Driscoll, the preaching pastor at the 7,500-member Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington, was quoted as having said this in one of his video lectures: “In marriage is it okay for one to masturbate the other? Yes, as long as it promotes oneness between a couple … But if you are someone who masturbates in a nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic way and you are single, it is not a sin.”
Surprisingly, the conservative evangelical and founder of Focus On The Family, Dr. James Dobson, was reported to have said, “99% of boys do it and the other 1% are lying. If we tell boys it is wrong and that God disapproves, what happens to those who aren’t able to stop? They grow up thinking God hates them or that they are some miserable, shameful, dirty creatures that belong under a rock. Therefore, let them do it.” In his book, Preparing for Adolescence, Dr. Dobson says, “It is my opinion that masturbation is not much of an issue with God.”
What does the Bible say?
The solitary Scripture most opponents of masturbation often quote is Genesis 38:9. It is an account of God judging Onan for spilling his semen onto the ground. Many of the early church saints, like Jerome and Clement of Alexandra, had used this story as an example of why masturbation should be banned. However, a closer, objective study of this passage would show that the context here has nothing to do with masturbation. In the days of the patriarchs, if a man died childless, the custom then was for his brother to take his wife, and the children produced by this second marriage were considered as the children of the first husband, and consequently inherit his possessions and extend his lineage. As such, Onan was supposed to raise up a seed for his deceased brother. Instead of doing that, he took advantage of his sister-in-law, Tamar, for his own sexual gratification, but didn’t want the responsibility to father her a child. God immediately judged Onan for his refusal to raise up an offspring for his brother.
The Bible also talks about “nocturnal emission,” an ejaculation during sleep by a male (Lev. 15:16-17; 22:4; Deut. 23:9-11). Today, we commonly call this a “wet dream,” or a spontaneous orgasm. Whenever they are mentioned in Scripture, it has more to do with Old Testament health and hygiene than what constitutes a sin.
What is my personal opinion regarding masturbation? Theologically, the Scripture is relatively silent about it although its practice stretches back to biblical times. None of the verses above outrightly name masturbation as a sin. As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out. To me, the act of self-stimulation is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems:
| 1. | Pornography. Pornography has long been condemned and prohibited in the belief that it depraves and corrupts both minors and adults, and that it leads to the commission of sex crimes. Pornography is often used hand-in-hand with masturbation to stimulate the imagination as well as the genitals. In a Kinsey Institute survey, 72% of the respondents said they used porn to masturbate for physical release.
In their award-winning bestseller, Porn Trap, sex therapists, Wendy and Larry Maltz, relate the harmful effects pornography has on an individual: “A relationship with porn can act like an affair. It can take time and energy away from an existing intimate relationship. People who use porn often operate with the same kind of secrecy and deception as someone having a sexual affair. When a porn user is confronted by a partner, there is often denial, lying and attempts to cover up the wrongdoing. Without realizing it, maintaining a “love affair” with porn can become more important than staying connected to someone in real life. Also, if you use porn regularly, the mental images and scenarios of porn can keep playing in your mind during sex, making it hard to feel connected and intimate with the real person in your life.” |
| 2. | Compulsive Masturbation. A compulsive masturbator may self-pleasure an inordinate number of times a day. The world record is reported to be 36 times over a 24-hour period! However, excessive masturbation can lead to neurochemical imbalances in the body and bring about continual fatigue, concentration and memory losses. Masturbation addiction can also lead to other forms of sex addictions such as:
To test if you have a problem with compulsive masturbation or other sex addictions, try the following Self-Assessment Test from Sex Addicts Anonymous: www.sexaa.org/IsSAAForYou/SelfAssessment. |
| 3. | Resentment in Spouse. When a married partner individually indulges in masturbation, especially when it is done in secrecy, the spouse is no longer the only source of sexual gratification. When one partner feeds his or her sexual appetite with masturbation, leaving the other partner sexually unfulfilled, it could cause feelings of resentment and loss of respect over time. Sexual pleasure involves considering the feelings of your spouse. If one partner is uncomfortable with the fact that the other is masturbating, especially when it is done outside of the couple’s lovemaking, both of you should have a radically honest discussion together. Come to a mutual agreement that both partners are comfortable with and genuinely happy about. |
Finally, as with most things that are not explicitly encouraged or prohibited in the Bible, one should only do it if it doesn’t go against the inner peace of God in his or her heart (Col. 3:15).
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Wow… Pastor, this is a very daring topic. Salute to you for venturing into this area :) I think that this is a very neccessary insight. I’m gonna spread this link! Read with many thanks.
Awesome! Very enlightening.. Your blog on the subject has opened my eyes to both “sides” of the argument! :-)
Thank You for bringing this into the light Pst. I can already see many young people being set free from condemning voices when they read this!
Wow. that’s interesting. so that’s the christianity stand on masturbation. i think that it helps us alot in understand God’s purpose and His intended meaning. (:
Thank God finally someone took a stand.
I couldn’t agree more, Pst. Kong! Thanks you for breaking silence. Thank you for explaining this in a theological way. Thank you for bringing up this discussion. I think all of the boys feel relieved now after the explanation. Furthermore, they definitely watch out if this is causing trouble.
Thank you . Thank you. Thank you , Pastor!!!!!
Pastor, i find this article very good. Still, there is a school of thought in the christian circles in singapore that says masturbation is wrong because when doing so, you are actually worshiping the images you play in your mind for the stimulation. Some go on to say that actually the devil is the one seated behind the images. What would your take on this be?
I am very surprised by this blogpost particularly because of how controversial it is, but just to add on, I also read somewhere that masturbation may cripple the sexual pleasure between couples esp if he or she is used to self-pleasuring.
Pastor, i seeking your permission to allow me to post it into my blog, so that i can share it with my friends.
The topic of masturbation must be seen in the context of how much it is mentioned in the Bible. Some will try to link it to Biblical verses like Matthew 5:28 which says lust is sin. Others will link it to 2 Tim 2:22 which exhorts us to “flee youthful lusts.”
However, Biblical verses must match up with the reality of raging hormones and male sexual urge which is further exacerbated by a hypersexualised media where skimpily dressed women are frequently shown on screen. Pornography is viewable on the Internet at the click of the mouse.
For a male wanting to live in purity, it can be a challenge for him indeed.
While the ideal situation will be where we can have sex in the context of marriage, reality dictates that this is getting increasingly difficult as people are getting married later and later.
Masturbation becomes a harmless alternative, if practice in moderation. However, a person coming from a traditional Christian background might feel guilty over it. But the Christian can take comfort in the fact that masturbation is not mentioned in the same breath as lying or committing adultery.
After all, how can a person commit adultery with himself? For the male, masturbation can be a useful way of releasing sexual urge, especially if he has been exposed to it at an early age.
But should a male try to quit masturbation? It is up to him really. But should he try but succumb to temptation, the key is not to feel guilty and disgusted about it, as many Christians too. Where sin abounds, grace abounds even more.
If it is even a sin, that is.
finally this can answer curiousity, anxiousity, for many people
especially for christian, thanks a lot pastor,
And I heard that u will come to GBI Baranangsiang for about august this year, see you here thank you
Pastor this is a very big topic among the Christians. I think this really puts a new light on things. I personally think that the with masturbation the first 2 points that you mentioned will always come up. It will take a lot of self control.
Pastor, this is the most exhaustive study on masturbation I have read so far. I believe the kind of response to this subject very much dependent on the maturity of the reader… bringing light to those who have been avoiding this issue and provoke believers and non believers alike to think differently about masturbation. I hope that those who read will not only have a better understanding but rather honor what is more important in their lives.
Hey Pastor,
I’m glad that you actually brought up such important topic. Most of the time, churches, or perhaps Asian chooses not to talk about such controversial issue.
I’m amazed by your knowledge and worldview and also the facts you have on this article.
At least now it gives me a broader viewpoint on the subject of Masturbation.
Thank You !
Hi Pastor Kong,
Thank you for always being so real in your blogs! For adressing this simple and yet complex issue of masturbation that does affect a lot of people today.
Your post on masturbation really shed light on how I as a young man should respond to the act of masturbation, not giving me an excuse but encounraging me to grow deeper and more mature as a chirstian.
I am very sure that this post has truly helped alot of people! Some of my friends have already read this post and they found it really encouraging and insightful, but they’re just too shy to post a response hahaha
Thank you once again Pastor Kong!
Much love and blessings,
Bernard
Thank you pastor Kong for this article. I think this is important theme to investigate and display plane answer. For misunderstanding forced many to misuse and to suffer of condemnation and inferiority. I am completely agreed with the content of your article. I also studied this theme on the Christian sites. As for pastor, to me it is important confirmation from the authoritative minister as you, that my opinion was not subjective on this subject. Thank you!
Pastor, a person who masturbates outside of the above 3 problems will eventually lead them back to the same 3 problems. What started out as an act of curiosity for me turned into a almost 15 years of addiction.
Thanks for the sharing Pastor. I have been a reader of your writing and I have been inspired by your teaching numerous times. Yet could I raise an inquiry about your sharing. How could masturbation take place without committing any of the last three problems? The only case I could imagine, which do not directly connect with these problems, is to masturbate with one’s spouse in his/her mind, while a married couple are separately geographically, yet the chance is slim for the majority.
Lings,
I think masturbation becomes a problem in marriage when the husband or wife becomes addicted to it, to the point where masturbation replaces marriage entirely. This is the only scenario I can think of where masturbation is harmful in marriage.
Thank you Pastor!
This is one area in which many teens are struggling with. It enlightens us and saves us from self-condemnation.
Praise the Lord for you! :-)
Wow Pastor thanks so much for this post! It is real and is something that our curious minds have never dared to ask further from our parents/elders as a young person. I now realize that it is not just a right/wrong or beneficial/non-beneficial issue. Rather, it has to do with taking responsibility to think further about what leads on after that.
Wow! Pastor, this is very good! With all your research and insights, I hope that all the readers will get a good light on this! =)
Very nicely written Ps. Kong. Thank you for sharing it with us =)
What can I say Pastor, I am speechless. What a great topic and the context really blow me away. Now I really know what masturbation is….but it tickles me thou.
Yes!!! Finally we are talking about sexual issues!!! THANK YOU PASTOR KONG!!!! You’re the man!!! I think we Christians don’t talk enough about sexual issues, & have been silent for TOO LONG (!!!) while the evil one is constantly harrasing & keeping God’s people in bondage just by the sheer silence of God’s Church, possibly feeling caved in by a sense of shame, guilt, defeat & helplessness perhaps? But while we remain that way, the devil is having a “hell of a party”!!! That’s why I truly appreciate people like Sy Rogers as well, he is just a real treasure to God’s Kingdom too!
Thank you SO MUCH Pastor Kong indeed, that is SO VERY MUCH appreciated! Please keep them coming!
I personally think that we shouldn’t call “sin” what the Bible did not specify on.
I do personally think though, that what’s most important is “what is the Holy Spirit saying to the individual”.
I think individually, one should depend on what the Holy Spirit’s leading for him or her is – what is the Holy Spirit saying to you (you & not others, or what others opinion on it is) about this?
I think personally, if I’m honest with myself, & am sure that the Holy Spirit doesn’t mind me doing that, and i know that it doesn’t greave Him, nor affect my walk with Him in anyway, then I should be able to freely do something, and do it to the glory of God.
I’m saying “individually”, because I think people sometimes take what God is specifically saying to them, & try to impose them on others, i.e. turning it into legalism, but in fact God might not have convicted others about something the same way – for example – the Holy Spirit might have specifically told one individual “please can you not masturbate, it greaves Me”, but He might not have told another.
Personally, when it comes to the issue of masturbation – I see it as a “weakness”. A weakness because I feel like there were times that the urge is SO STRONG that I just had to do it, & feels like I “cannot” not do it…..therefore I feel defeated. Although I don’t do that compulsively (not even weekly), but it’s the “when the urge is there, I cannot overcome it” that worries me. Which I think is the FLESH manifesting itself – something which God’s Word says that I need to crucify…. and not let it rule over me. Because when you feed the flesh, it just keeps getting stronger. I think it’s probably like eating as well (it can be a VERY STRONG urge, ESPECIALLY when you want to FAST & PRAY!) Eating is NOT sin at all! But if it keeps controlling me & defeats me into succumbing to that flesh when i’m trying to FAST & KILL it, then I’m not crucifying it & be victorious over it, which Christ says I CAN BE, because He has ALREADY MADE IT POSSIBLE!
And the verse in 1 Cor 6:12 keeps coming to me “Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible for me- but i will not be mastered by anything”!
And also when it comes to masturbating, I feel that the Holy Spirit has personally convicted me that “God has created sex for giving – it’s meant to give to another – the love of your life (your spouse) to satisfy him or her needs. And if I keep masturbating, it is like a selfish act, to satisfy MY own needs, MY cravings, MY satisfaction…it’s all about the BIG M-Y = FLESH. And it can potentially turn into LUST (it’s all about satisfying ME & MY FLESH). And also I think it might also have the propensity to affect my future sex life with my spouse & even finding it frustrating when MY need is not met, the ways how “the BIG I” WANTS it to be?
As I said, this is only my own personal conviction for myself which I feel the Holy Spirit has spoken to me about. And I want to continue to build up my inner man – to pray (& fast again!) to be strong in the Spirit & overcome the flesh – to do it day by day – depending on the Holy Spirit’s strength for me everyday to do it – to have a DAILY victory! If I accidently fail & falter, I will by God’s grace get up again, & ask Him to please forgive & cleanse me, & we’ll get up & walk again (Holy Spirit & me) :-)
These are something which I totally, fully appreciate & respect Pastor Kong & City Harvest Church for (crucifying the flesh & be strong in the Spirit)….I know you don’t only teach it, but you live it. I have SO MUCH more to learn from! THANK YOU Pastor Kong again & again.
I think masturbation belongs in the domain of sexuality and to assess the benefits or not of masturbation is really a scientific enquiry. So from an ethical viewpoint I don’t think it’s anyone’s business to question what people are up to in the bedroom but from a socio- perspective what would concern me is the behaviours which elicit masturbation and whether prolong masturbation can lead to harmful trends such as pornography or other detrimental self-gratifying pleasures.
In terms of the ancients, I don’t think the term ‘masturbation’ and the intentions associated with it is in the same reference to the meaning it has today. Marriage and family affairs, the role of women to rituals, religion to language were starkly different back then. The modern man has alot more sophisticated understandings about the world today and alot more choices to reprieve themselves in the absence of sexuality.
Kant said alot of things in relation to universal rights, morality, truth, aesthetics, sublime etc. etc. but I don’t think he concerned much for self-gratifying pleasures such as personal sexuality. Bentham on the other hand would approve of pleasure over pain thus a question of an individual’s subjective well-being in terms of hedonism or desire-fulfillment or what have you. Actually Foucault had alot of interesting things to say about theology and sexuality.
In behavioural science, I’d say not much is in the literature for explaining masturbation maybe except for some controversial Freudian theories but all-in-all masturbation in terms of law and politics I can’t see as a positive trend unless it is excused for adolescent exploration. I noticed excessive masturbation is commonly associated to character traits of serial killers, rapists or pedophiles. It isn’t considered healthy to be masturbating past a certain age.
I don’t agree with Dr. Dobson on whether masturbating is an issue for God, I just don’t recall reading specifically about masturbating in the bible other than for indirect links to keeping your body holy perhaps. I’m sure a TORAH scholar has alot to say about the ’seed spilling’ in Genesis and I really don’t think they’d interpret that passage to be in reference to ‘masturbation’.
If He cares about the number of hair on our heads than I’m sure He concerns for masturbating but in terms of christianity I just don’t think it’s a question of right or wrong but does it keep you holy or not? If it doesn’t than I don’t think it should be justified just because we can’t help it or don’t take the effort of making a relationship work with your significant other.
Kong, you only cares on what human thinks but not what God things. Your passage here is no more than an article of secular humanism but not written from the heart of God!
“self-stimulation is worrying only if …” -> Kong, please state it clear whether masturbation is sin or not! Whether masturbation is sin or not does not depend on how great the effect it brings but depends on what the Bible speaks! Why you only considers from the heart of man but not heart of God?
“the Scripture is relatively silent about it,,,” -> You are completely wrong! Jesus said it very clearly, “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matt 5:28). However can a man masturbates without thinking a women? A sin has already been committed at the moment he thinks about masturbation!
“For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander (Matt 15:19)”. The only reason of masturbation is to satisfy sexual desires without a spouse. This is completely against the reason why God created man and woman and marriage. Kong, think twice before you write any articles. Can masturbation glorify God? Can masturbation comes from the Holy Spirit? Did Jesus masturbates in His life on earth? If your answer is also no, what basis from the Bible or Jesus’s life can you support your opinion?
Kong, I urge you to repent and rewrites your article immediately. Otherwise I will consider you as a false teacher, which I don’t want to do so. I welcome you to contact me at adverthk@gmail.com for further discussion. As the sons and daughters of God we no need to sacrifice the truth in exchange for souls! Please meditate on the verses above, Kong!
Just like the past topics, tattoo, wine. It is controversial to many. I had learned a great deal from Pastor Kong Hee’s sermon on the effect of different thoughts and speech on distill water. There after, I caught on a good revelation. “DO NOT stir up the evil dragon in a person or his rebellious nature by our way of action or speech.” While it is good for feeding knowledge to the flesh but on the other hand, not everyone can understand fully nor read in between the line or worst, some reader may pick and choose the part that suits their lustful life and said “Thank You, now I know, I can have tattoo the way I like, or now I know I can drink wine the way I like. Now , Oh as explained here, I can do the M., to satisfied my thirst for lust.” As I said I had learned the value imparted by our H.S. “Don’t start something to stir-up the rebellious nature of the flesh!” But there again, I believe that Our Lord Jesus has given us a yardstick to measure, a scale to strike a balance. While I see this as another topics stirring up the rebellious nature of THE MAN, I would envisage that we are mature Christian knowing what we are doing. As Dr A.R. Bernard had said in the Asia Conference 2008 “God will allow things to happened as long as benefits outweighs consequences.” You will see, certain people will start to participate in enjoying this lustful talk rather then acknowledging the right NOT to do the M. in the wrong way as described in the Bible. Don’t ask me whether it is right or wrong, it is fully explained as being posted.
Wow! Pastor, your posts are getting more and more interesting! I’ve never heard any pastor, any Sunday School teacher or Bible School lecturer address this issue so clearly.
Your objectivity in presenting the data, the verses and possible opinions definitely adds depth to this issue.
Thanks Pastor for opening up our minds to understand Masturbation. There have been way too many articles written from the world view.
I wonder if anyone can masturbate without thinking of a woman with lust? I wonder how to reconcile masturbation with what Jesus said, “whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart”?
when you are successful, everything you do and say, including controversial or bad things, will get thumbs-up from people; when you are a failure, evrerything you do or say, even though it is good and praiseworthy, will get….boo from people, congratulation to you kong and sun, both of you are very sucessful people
Kong, answer me, is it possible for you to rape a woman without having pornography in your mind? Certainly not! It is completely nonsense to states that “a person masturbates without pornography”. The Broad Guiding Principle here is that, no matter masturbation, raping or ultra-marrial sex, whenever a man willingly act to release his semen from his penis apart being caused by sexual intercourse with his spouse, a sexual need has clearly been satisfied. Satisfying sexual need apart from his spouse is clearly a sin in the Bible!
Kong, you lack integrity. Just because you practise ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” does not make it less sinful. It is completely non-sense to say “the act of self-stimulation is worrying only if…”. If it is a sin, no matter in what level it practised, it is sin against God! If it is not a sin, no matter how deep it is practised, it still not a sin. Yes, I falls into masturbation occationally, but I admit clearly to God and repent everytime I sin. But I would not try to rationalize my acts by changing some absolute truth into relative theory!
I guess it’s really about “the heart’s attitude. Masturbation seems to elevate one’s own pleasures above God”.
For those struggling with this area, you can try reading Pastor Joshua Harris book, “Sex is not the problem, lust is” or Neil T. Anderson’s “A Way of Escape: Freedom from sexual strongholds” -very liberating!
Gotta depend on the Holy Spirit to set one’s heart right again.
The Lord is good though; He will not remember our sins (Is. 43:25).
I like the almost-all-rounded analysis. I would however not go as far as Simon to call this exhaustive.
I agree that a lot of verses you quoted are about hygiene.
“…act of self-stimulation is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems…”
My questions would be:
Can one masturbate without having any sexual thoughts going through their minds? (i.e. just mechanical about the action)
Is not masturbation likely to lead one into one of the three problems mentioned?
I accidentally discovered masturbation when I was only seven (much earlier than what the Toronto studies show) when I was showering. It happened when I passed the water stream from the shower head over my genitals. Interestingly, the first images that popped into my head were nude images of girls with male genitals. I had never seen the female genitalia before. I had no previous thoughts of such kind. I mean, at the age of 7, seriously, normally children don’t think such things. Discovering masturbation had inadvertently flicked a switch in my head.
The connectedness between the activity and the images allow me to conclude that there is a natural link between the activity and being sexual beings perhaps this was to be expected.
From a certain female, I understood that she however has no thoughts of such going through her mind while being stimulated. She claimed that her mind was blank. While I do not know the extent to which she was being honest, I then supposed that the link was more a male phenomenon.
That belief was further strengthened when I heard your preachings on “What he wants” (In my words).
I must say, the continual engagement in the activity for twenty years has left me with a physiological need to continue with the activity. This was more physiological than psychological, because I tried to wean myself off this habit and I discovered something else. I was successful only for a short time. It seemed semen was building up (almost as if saying the production was going on despite the demand) and I was feeling very uncomfortable and needed the release. When I stroked myself for as little as five seconds, before I knew it, I ejaculated and the large volume was surprising and the colour of the semen further surprised me. It was slightly yellow. Old stock?
What I am trying to say is that, the addiction to the activity is one that is cultivated and will not only affect you psychologically , but also physiologically.
So if I was asked if masturbation is okay, I’d say, if you are already addicted there is little will-power can do. God’s intervention could help. However, if you have not tried or are just beginning, GET AWAY FROM IT! It might help if parents were to teach their children early, but not say things like if you touch it, it’ll drop off, which is what one a newspaper (or was it a magazine) quoted a grown-up boy as saying for never having masturbated.
I hope my comments have added a new dimension into your article and provided another insight.
Pastor, you seem to address this between married couples , in Point 3, which I absolutely agree.
The key question is, “Is it possible to engage in this activity without lust” for someone who is single? I think not. Who and what does one think of during masturbation? Definitely not the realm of the Holy Spirit.
Masturbation involves only oneself, fulfill the pleasure of self and no one else, i.e. I can do it myself!
It is probably one of the highest form of self-idolatry. I ever asked this question to a friend, if it is a sin, how does a teenager overcome it? His answer I believe is wise. “One overcome it by God’s grace, just like any other temptation”.
Hi Pst,
thanks for touching on this topic of masturbation. Most people avoid this topic but I am sure it affects many people especially amongst the youth. Not fogetting that married people do masturbate too. I think ever since adrian “masturbated” on stage (in one of the drama) some time back, it shows that CHC is not afraid of bringing out issues that is so real in the daily lives of the man on the street.
Kudos to you Pst for being bold to talk about this.
Brgds,
Kenneth
“Hear me, you who know what is right,
you people who have my law in your hearts:…..” Isaiah 51:7
The jury is the Holy Spirit and He lives in us. As Christians it is wise to follow His promptings as He should be our first port-of-call.
God Bless :-)
Firstly, I commend you for taking the time to address this topic. I’m not a theologian or bible scholar but I hope you will allow me to present my views.
I think originally sex was created by God between male and female for the purpose of procreation. It was never intended for personal gratification. The reason He made sex so pleasurable is so that the human race (animals included) would never ever be in danger of extinction. Like any other gift from God, sex can be misused and perverted. Masturbation, homosexuality, oral and anal sex are forms of perversion and deviation.
Because of man’s fallen nature, he has no control over himself and lets his urges and carnal appetites control him. He can’t stop thinking about sex all day and feels deprived and unfulfilled if his urges are not gratified.
It is true the bible did not explicitly say masturbation is a sin. But the context of sex is always between male and female (and within marriage, in humans). Even animals know this. If you keep a male pet dog confined all his life, you’ll never catch him masturbating even when in heat.
Nowhere in the bible does it say it’s okay to let off our pent-up sexual urges through masturbation. In fact, all forms of sexual perversion are regarded as sin as mentioned in Sodom and Gomorrah.
When you look at the lives of godly men and women in the bible, there’s no mention that any of them ever masturbated. What about Jesus? He is the role model we should follow.
Should we allow our mind to be preoccupied with sex the whole day? Whatever we focus on in our mind reinforces it. If we constantly let our mind dwell on sex or other impure thoughts, we open a door for the devil to work and to ensnare us.
Phil 4:8 – we are to let our mind dwell on things that are ‘true, noble, just, pure, lovely, of good report, of virtue, praiseworthy..’
2Cor 10:5 – we are to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ Jesus.
Sex is to be enjoyed within marriage between a man and a woman. It is a gift from God.
How then do you handle your strong sexual urges if you’re still single? Try this.
Bring it to God in prayer. Thank Him that sex is a gift from Him. Then offer it back to Him and ask Him to withhold those strong desires until the right time and for the right purpose. Re-focus your mind on some other positive thing. Re-channel your sexual energy perhaps into sports or some interesting projects. Most impt. of all, keep your mind renewed in the Word of God and ask the Holy Spirit to help you to walk in sexual purity.
That’s how I overcome temptation and I’m only an ordinary christian.
Hi Ps Kong
finally i found someone who has a balanced view of this subject.
My church is coming up with a series of deliverance and inner healing and your subject comes timely.
I am a church leader and is bringing this up!
Great Job P. Kong. It is great to see other pastors willing to give an informative look at the “M”bomb.
Keep
Big shout out to Benjamin Isaiah Tan!
He made the most valid point.
“Masturbation is considered wrong because when doing so, you are actually worshiping the images you play in your mind for the stimulation. ”
The mental image people conjured are typically beautiful people portrayed by magazine, movies, and television. Not exactly pornography, but sexy lustful image!
THE QUESTION IS WHO ARE YOU IMAGINING TO GET IT GOING????
Respect to Pastor Kong Hee for addressing the issue. Good biblical references and explanation, especially on Genesis 38:9.
However, it needs more in depth analysis on human behavior.
Thanks Pastor. Theoretically, I agree with you.
But the problem with masturbation is (which you should stress in your blog) that it is hard, if not impossible, for the most people (especially teenagers) to delink it from pornography.
Thus, most will be at risk of the warning that Jesus gave when he said, “if you look at another person lustfully, you will have committed adultery in the heart”. Matt 5:27-28.
this is especially so for unmarried folks – how are they going to focus their thoughts during the act?
Thanks for this write up Pastor Kong.
I thoroughly appreciate it… I am very happy that you’re thinking outside the box. However, I wonder if masturbation is a trigger from lust? Why would anybody want to masturbate without lust? Just wondering…
You’re a legend, thanks for bringing up this daring topic… many people may disagree with you but I would like to ask some questions linking to the act of masturbation.
To Sola Fida,
I think not only are you missing the whole point here but as well as over commenting things.
Look, we Christians have been dumbfounded by the whole masturbation thing for hundreds or even thousands of years. And it has always and especially in more traditional churches not talked about it so openly. Ps Kong is just bringing out an article here, he’s not preaching it nor teaching it. He just wants us (especially males) to be aware of masturbation.
How many male Christians have been so burdened at the fact that they are masturbating? What about the ‘worldly people’ who becomes new Christians and gets so confused and guilty about masturbation till it makes them more delusion then before? The fact is that Ps Kong is trying to let EVERYONE (Christians & non-Christians) know that masturbation is a struggle for every male Christians & Non-Christians alike.
So please, unless you come from a Very traditional Background or a Catholic background, try to understand before accusing and lashing out. Is a VERY real situation for every male and this topic encourages us (especially male Christians) to talk about it. I hope you are able to understand and I pray for you to be more understanding. Males do have confounding issues too!
God Bless!
Wow Pastor, what a great analysis on this topic. I’m gonna to circulate this among my networks. Thanks Pastor! Well done!
Simplebeliever,
I congratulate you for overcoming your habit of masturbation. However, some of the things you seem dangerously extreme.
“Masturbation, homosexuality, oral and anal sex are forms of perversion and deviation. Because of man’s fallen nature, he has no control over himself and lets his urges and carnal appetites control him.”
The Bible seems clear about homosexuality, but masturbation, oral sex and anal sex are not clear cut issues. In fact, oral sex is often seen as acceptable foreplay during sexual intercourse.
“He can’t stop thinking about sex all day and feels deprived and unfulfilled if his urges are not gratified.”
You seem to demonise all sexual urge as sin. I think it is normal for men to think about sex and feel deprived. After all, God created us with sexual desire. Is it a sin that puberty comes to us at such a young age, and we have to learn to deal with it?
“Even animals know this. If you keep a male pet dog confined all his life, you’ll never catch him masturbating even when in heat.”
Dogs do masturbate! If you have a pet dog, you will know this.
“When you look at the lives of godly men and women in the bible, there’s no mention that any of them ever masturbated. What about Jesus? He is the role model we should follow.”
This is a seriously misguided interpretation. The Bible doesn’t mention masturbation because it is insignificant, not because it is wrong.
You still seem to be stuck in the mentality that all forms of sexual desire is wrong outside of marriage. Sexual desire is not wrong, pre-marital sex is, according to what the Bible says.
And while I am glad to hear you have overcome your habit, I honestly wonder how generalisable your experience really is. Different males have different levels of testosterone, and thus different levels of sexual desire.
For you it might easy. For others, not so.
Hi Pastor Kong Hee
Thank You for sharing.
Thank God, He is the Creator, Heavenly Father
He knows my Strength and Weakness. He knows my needs and wants before I pray to Him. With God’s grace, mercy and love
Jesus Heals, the Son of God
God’s Love
God’s Blessing and Prosperity
pastor, when are you going to write a blog on homosexuality?
Hi Pastor, thank you for approaching the ‘untouchables’ of topics!
To add on to Benjamin Isaiah Tan’s post, while it is widely accepted that 1) the act of masturbation to achieve orgasm is usually facilitated by concurrently fantasizing about pornographic images; and 2) as Christians we do know that lustful thoughts are definitely a no-no to God – does this then mean that 3) masturbation alone WITHOUT fantasizing makes the act perfectly amoral?
Pastor, I agree with your second point, on masturbation turning into an addiction. Every compulsive tendency starts with little cracks in the wall; those little compromises – that gradually escalates into a full-blown obsession. BUT – couple this notion with the fact that as men (and for that matter some women), it is only but normal that sexual urges frequently plague them from within and entice them from without. By this logic, how then is it possible to juggle both maintaining a disciplined rein on our thoughts, and withstanding the raging sexual cravings – all at once?
Next, imagine this: how can a man, who has for instance been brought up in an environment where masturbation and fantasizing are the norms, yet he is not addicted to such acts – experience any value-added change in his lifestyle, say after he has come to have known Christ? What would the difference be, before and after being saved? My guess is that since fantasizing is equated to pornography, this man would have to learn to cut out the fantasizing portion? Is this right?
These I feel are the struggles that not only let masturbation cause a lot of self-condemnation in terms of morality; but also are those that make masturbation become both a biological and psychological burden.
Pastor, what’s your take on these aspects of the debate? Many many thanks!
Reply to Sola Fide’s comment:
After reading the article, I noticed your comment and wondered if you are making a public confession over the net that you practise masturbation once in a while?
And you said you fall into it occassionally and keep asking God for forgiveness. But if you keep on practising it and you keep on asking God for forgiveness, don’t you think that you are not having a true repentance?
If you are trully repentant, than why are you always going back into the practise? And PK did not state his point so what do you mean by a lack of integrity?
You are leading people away from the real meaning of God and what his true commandments are. You are teaching people that masturbation is ok?? It can certainly lead to addiction and God has warned us not to be led in temptations. Bible can indeed be interpreted differently, but please do not twist God’s words as you please. I feel you are different. I had great respect for you years ago but now you seem to have changed.
With power comes responsibility. So please think twice of the repercussions before posting such a controversial and sensitive issue that will lead God’s people go down the wrong path. For the sake of God. Thank you.
We christians are supposed to be the light of this damaged world, and as pastors you have tremendous power to either bring a confused person to the Truth or to bring him to the path of destruction by keeping himself strapped in sin that he cannot let go of. By saying Masturbation is ok, you are trapping innocent victims in this confusing world with so many different messages. They need to know the Holy God, to know that the Holy Spirit is pure and we should have spirit of excellence instead you are plainly encouraging of succumbing to flesh. That is contradicting to God’s world. If Jesus were alive, What Would Jesus Say about this topic? What would he say about you? Know that Grace given by God is free but is not to be taken as advantage. You are plainly giving people a go to sin even more!!! Remember God will judge people of power as pastors were to take care of his people as they were as his sheep.
Pastor Kong, you blog really blow my mind away and set me free ….. wow is great !!! I like it ….. I really learn a lots from this topic, thanks for taking time writing this blog. I will pray for you so that your ministry continue to enlarge and your teaching can reach out to more and more christian who is doubt about their believing.
We are already continually battling in the spirit realm to fight against the devil and his scheme to bring us down to succumb to flesh. The flesh is weak. Your words are telling us to stop the battle because it’s acceptable and normal. Because it is the flesh and that’s how we are created. So why not tell us everything else is ok too since we live in this world. Why be a christian?? Didnt God say to not be conformed to this world. It’s hard enough to be a christian because you are continually surrounded by temptations, remember your words have power. It can affect a lot of people. Honestly, I have never heard anything in the bible that you have just said. It does not matter what you think, what matters is what GOD thinks! Remember in the end you will be judged.
Let me just say that this is perversion of God’s words.
All I know is, the power of Holy Spirit can break away any sin, keep you holy and destroy any urges in sexual and drug addiction if you ask. It happens to me and my life!! You are to pray for strength and God will give you the strength only if you ask. Seek him and never give up to flesh. I dont know how my life will turn out if I have met pastor like you when I was in the most darkest of my life, needing some guidance and power to break away from miserable life. I would have gone the wrong path during my weakest hours. I thank God for bringing the right people my way to tell me the RIGHT WORDS OF GOD, instead of having to learn the wrong way as what you have just described above. I would encourage you to step down being a pastor if you are misleading people with your position.
Hi P. Kong,
With all due respect to you, I was a little disturbed when I consider your viewpoint on the subject. Same as some of the folks who have spoken up here, I wonder how can masturbation separated from lust of the mind. I understand your heart to affirm believers who are weak in sexual purity but with this post I think I might that it that it’s ok to masturbate as long as it’s not too frequent, I don’t use porno and am not angry with spouse. Well in that case, that’s easy to render a guiltless indulgence.
I firmly believe that Sex and all things that leads up to it is a special intimacy between me and my hubby. Not something I can settle by myself.
P. Kong, I’ve been following your posts and do appreciate your insights and teachings. I really hope you can clarify your post here.
Blessings
First of all, I want to thank Ps Kong for bringing up a “taboo” issue like Masturbation, as it is an issue which the church world rarely addresses.
As the Bible is clearly non-conclusive about the issue of Masturbation, I feel that we can safely conclude that the problem with masturbation, is not masturbation itself.
But it is a problem when Masturbation is combined with pornography & compulsive behavior which leads to a lack of self control.
The article obviously is not trying to promote lust, but as Mark Driscoll puts it poignantly, if Masturbation is done “…in a non-addictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic way and you are single, it is not a sin.”
When one of the commentators—Sola Fide brings up the issue of Matt 5:28, where Jesus says “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart”, we must consider the act of Masturbation itself
.
If the act of Masturbation can be done with an alternative focus (rather than sexual fantasy), then it is no adultery. That is, the focus could be on the body’s physiological responses, such as an impending orgasm.
I will therefore urge all readers to be more open minded, when we consider issues what are non-conclusive in scripture.
In these last days, people tend to interpret the bible as they wish in their own words. As a pastor, you are to tell the world what God says, not what each individual feels like hearing. What is the TRUTH? We are merely the followers of Christ, so only JESUS can be glorified. We are NOT people pleaser, but GOD pleaser. HE has reminded us of false prophets in the last days. WHY? Because of this fact that the bible is open to interpretation that people please themselves by permitting the words to fit into their own agenda. And I feel you are a false phophet. Please check your heart and repent. Pls don’t nail jesus on the cross the second time to die for us again.
Congratulations! You have crossed to the other side. Jesus’ enemy will be so delighted to have recruited you to be one of their own. Sad to say, I have lost great reverence from you. Hope when you speak, it comes from the Holy Spirit and not from your human “intelligence”. Facts are different from TRUTH!! Check back your previous sermons from yearss past, they were much more resemblance of Truth.
Highly respectable pastors such as Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen and Billy Graham earn their respect because of their integrity and character. I cant imagine they will agree with what you have just said. I am glad to have them as my mentors in my daily life. I feel sorry for your congregations and the people you have misled. WHAT WOULD THESE MIGHTY POWERFUL LEADERS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT YOUR ARTICLE?
You can fool simple minded people but not fool the wise people like me. Luckily I am not a baby Christian. I have gone through so much with Christianity and questioned everything. Your words will fall prey on these baby Christian. I plead of you to stop misleading these poor followers who may be confused with the world and step down from calling yourself a leader in Christiandom for sweet Jesus sake!!!
Sola Fide, calm down buddy.
Ps Kong raises an interesting topic of discussion, no need to be religiously patriotic about it. It’s not like he’s putting masturbation into the sermons, so instead of pointing fingers you should consider grabbing a cup of coffee, a scotch finger and take a deep breath. Life is too short to stress about anything really.
On the topic of ‘rape’, that’s violating people’s rights, grievous bodily harm, committing a crime, way beyond the scope of masturbation. In terms of sin I can’t recall in the bible as to where it says the act of masturbation itself is a sin, but like you say and I agree with you on this one, we could assume the various behaviours people engage in eliciting masturbation could become sin.
If an individual claims they engage in masturbation without impure thoughts and looks like their life is fine with no relationship issues then you give them the benefit of doubt. We really have no right to be pointing fingers at anyone really and if we see masturbation looks to be detrimental for them then we help them. As christians we shouldn’t be judging.
On the same token I see what you’re getting at and I’m sure Ps Kong agrees with you but I think you misinterpreted his intention. I don’t think he is saying ‘masturbation’ is necessarily a good thing and we should therefore all go out and masturbate regularly, but in the futility of being human, given most of the people in the world today do not engage in sexual abstinence, better to reprieve of sexual urges through the self if need be, than do harm to others or engage in prostitution.
Ps Kong is a very wise man, a man of God who not only cares about his flock but the people of Singapore and the world, particularly the christian world. If you ask me I wouldn’t be surprised if Singapore becomes the first nation in the world to have an Evangelical government and law, like the Vatican City for Catholics or the Sharia Laws for Saudi Arabia. Ps Kong is not an ordinary individual like you and I, he has dreams the world has yet to even concieve of, so my advise would be to try and see beyond the obvious, trust your Shepherd and be courageous enough to share his vision.
Anyway how common is prostitution in Singapore? I remember when I was staying in Singapore I was fascinated with all these exotic hotel names like ‘Pearl’, ‘Ruby’, ‘Rose’. Clearly if areas like these are to be transformed it’s up to individuals to stand up to these lucrative industries by not engaging in these sorts of activities. I agree with Ps Kong, go masturbate! It’s a step towards healing. Go reprieve your bodily desires on yourself instead of taking advantage of some poor lady trying to make ends meet.
So Sola Fide, clearly masturbation is not an issue for you, so this post is not intended for someone like yourself. You should take your purity and write a song about the Almighty, you’re a good man, a good christian, so don’t waste your time stressing over something not applicable to you. Grab a cup of coffee or a cold lemonade.. I gather it’s quite humid in Singapore? Go eat, eat, eat, they have such delectable cuisines in Singapore, how I crave a Singaporean pork bun right now. mmmm…
Peace
thank you for updating issues, keep up the good work, Pastor!
Thank you Ps Kong for another life lesson based in love and grace.
When I was a younger girl I was sexually abused for several years. I did not realise until I was older, but these experiences affected my sexuality and I came to hate the idea of sex. It scared me, and being in a relationship, I was filled with anxiousness about getting married, where i would ‘have to’ have sex. Because I was abused before puberty, my body had become stunted in its sexual growth and I had no interest in sex, as for me sex was always linked with being hurt, afraid and guilty.
I went through counselling and the Holy Spirit healed me of my many wounds. It was at this stage that I realised I needed to discover my own sexuality, before I was faced with my fear of being sexual with a man, even if it was the man I loved.
Engaging in self-stimluation to discover my own sexuality as something that wasn’t controlled by someone else, helped me complete my healing.
I thought this may answer some questions from people wondering how you can masterbate without pornography or lusting.
Thank you Ps. Kong. I feel a little more understood now.
Contrary to what many said, Pastor Kong has made it very clear that he is, BY NO MEANS, a proponent of masturbation. For those of you who rashly state that he is a “false prophet” or a “deceitful teacher”, I strongly urge you to read his blog entry once again, especially regarding his own perspectives. You will find that he is neutral in perspective. The reason Pastor Kong does not take an offensive stance regarding the subject is because of his reliance on “sola scriptura”. This simply means that Pastor will only be for or against a certain idea if it is indeed proven to be erroneous by the Word of God. Pastor Kong has exhaustively described the story of Onan in adequate detail. In regards to those who state in an absolutist manner that the concepts of “masturbation” and “morally sinful thoughts” are inseperable, please come with me on a simple thought journey that makes it more difficult to make such judgments. Firstly, what if one were to masturbate completely with one’s wife in mind? It would be preposterous to state to state that thinking about your wife in a sexual manner is a sin. Secondly, what if one were to engage in masturbation without thinking of unholy thoughts? Difficult as it may seem, the thought of oneself ejaculating or experiencing orgasm is not a sin in and of itself. These are but two of the possibilities, among many, that people could, in theory, perform masturbation without defiling onself of sin. On the other hand, it is EXTREMELY difficult to perform masturbation under such aforementioned constraints, but the possibilities remain. Because of such possibilities, masturbation as an act itself may not NECESSARILY be equated to sin. As Pastor Kong mentioned, however, if it leads to the three further concepts of sin, it can, in fact, lead to sin.
Humbly yours,
Brother junior
God bless you.
I have always being wondering about this subject it is just hard to talk to people about this subject and i thank you for sharing your knowledge.
You have helped me alot.
Ciao.
Hi Pastor,
Thank you for the passage.
In the OT, there is no verse explicitly says that mustabation is a sin and kindled the wrath of God. However (as you have mentioned earlier) there are laws regarding about the emission of semen which makes a person unclean ceremonially.
In the NT, there is no verse explicitly mention that masturbation is a sin but what I think many churches regard it as a ’sin’ is that Jesus has re-defined adultery in the gospels, whereby looking at a woman in lust is equivalent to committing adultery in the NT (Matthew 5:28). Since it is not possible to masturbate without having lustful thoughts, therefore by this verse many churches conclude that masturbation is a sin/ abomination before God.
In Matthew 5:28, Jesus has raised God’s standard of adultery. It is no longer an act, but a thought. as well Jesus knows that all of us are sexual beings and will have sexual thoughts at least once in his life time. This makes all people fall short of the glory of God. Thus from this verse, Jesus has 2 main points to clarify with the OT Jews:
1) No one should think that he can enter the kingdom of God by not breaking the OT Law of ‘thou shall not commit adultery’. One should come to realize that he needs Jesus in order to be made right with God.
2) One should realize that he is born in sin just as his neighbor, and should not judge his neighbor in his heart if his neighbor of comitting an act of adultery while he did not.
Thus, apart from this verse, the Bible is silent on masturbation. Jesus did NOT mention it to accuse us of masturbation or says that He HATES it. But the devil, whose moral standard is higher than God’s moral standard (because he wants to be higher than God) use this verse to condemn all believers and get miserable all day long.
All things are permissible but not all things are beneficial. One cannot say it is a ’sin’ in all context. You must look at other factors (time, place, context, etc..) as well.
Next, I have the following question:
Matthew 27: 55-56 (KJV):
55And many women were there beholding AFAR OFF, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: 56Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children.
John 19:25 (KJV):
25Now there stood BY THE CROSS of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Mary Magdalene is not God, thus she is not Omnipresent. How come in one verse she is standing afar off and in another verse she is standing very close to the cross of Jesus? Either one is a lie or the other is the truth. or both are lies as there are 3 possibilities:
1) Mary Magdalene is standying by the cross of Jesus
2) Mary Magdalene is standing afar off looking at His cross
3) Mary Magdalene is not present at all to witness the event
An yardstick can be the straightest mesuring instrument in the world. But if the scale intervals written on it are not consistent, how can you use it to make measurement? Even a secular engineer knows it, that it has to be thrown away.
Don’t you think so, pastor?
This is one of the most common questions men perticulaly young adults would ask me in Coaching / counselling.if 99% of men have masturbated and the other 1% are liars I must fall into one of the categories. The jury is out with me on the sinfulness of the act but nearly all men have shared with me that they feel uncomfortable even dirty after the act whether christian or not. Some men masturbate for comfort or relief against anxiety and here I think one should look at some underlying cause and alternative response such as therapy. From a christian point of view the issue for me is that is is very difficult if not impossible for some people to masturbate sucessfully to orgasim without conjouring in their mind a mentally explicit erotic image. Then this may be a sin at least if the image is not your wife ( Math 5;28 ) and i have always winced when I have read Math:5:30 considerintg its possible double meaning. My only badvise is dont beat yourself up about it but strive for purity in this area and never let it become a habit, talk to other men who you can trust for their sexual wisdom.
Bill.
For those who mention that “Should we allow our mind to be preoccupied with sex the whole day” or “whole day long?”
firstly, how many would think about it the whole day. It’s ridiculous.
Secondly, don’t you have better things to do, or are you guys”TOO FREE” in engage into this thoughts
From Bill duplicate blog response with spelloing corrections
Thanks
This is one of the most common questions men particularly young adults would ask me in Coaching / counselling. if 99% of men have masturbated and the other 1% are liars I must fall into one of the categories. The jury is out with me on the sinfulness of the act but nearly all men have shared with me that they feel uncomfortable even dirty after the act whether Christian or not. Some men masturbate for comfort or relief against anxiety and here I think one should look at some underlying cause and alternative response such as therapy. From a Christian point of view the issue for me is that is is very difficult if not impossible for some people to masturbate successfully to orgasm without conjuring in their mind a mentally explicit erotic image. Then this may be a sin at least if the image is not your wife ( Math 5;28 ) and i have always winced when I have read Math:5:30 considering its possible double meaning. My only advise is don’t beat yourself up about it but strive for purity in this area and never let it become a habit, talk to other men who you can trust for their sexual wisdom.
Wow Pastor, what a great revelation and bold discussion. I’m gonna to circulate this to everyone. Solid…………!
Dear Pastor Kong,
I truly admire your courage in bringing up such a sensitive topic. Frankly speaking, I believe many Christians, especially ‘high ranking ones’ will never have the guts to even comment about this topic due to the backlash they will received from self-righteous Christians.
This article prompted an interesting conversation between me and my spouse. We had a good time discussing and laughing at those backlash comments you have received.
I asked my husband if he can masturbate without thinking of a woman, he laughed and replied, “Ya, think of a man… that’s why there are ministers who turn and became gay because they have been preached by believers that they cannot think of an woman so they think of man and become gay.” hahhahahhaha
Then I told him that someone argued that; Jesus said: if you look at a woman with a lust, you are committing adultery and so masturbation is a SIN. He laughed and replied; “What, you mean you go and peek at a woman and masturbate at the same time?!! I think the verse that says ‘look’ and that is a common sense sentence. When you look at a woman, you don’t look at her in a lustful way as in you don’t try to strip her clothes off when you look at her. You may admire her beauty, her sexiness but you don’t look at her lustfully and all you can think is to have sex with her.”
At the end of the day, I do agree that unless, there is a clear written commandant that masturbation is a sin, if not, I think we should just keep quiet and let God be the judge. For those of you have never masturbated in your whole life, I congratulate you (even though I feel that you are a little non-human). For those of you who have masturbated or face this urge of masturbation before and have managed to break away with the help of the Power of the Holy Spirit, I Praise God and I congratulate you. However, please remember that there are still many human in this world who face this issue and need helps. If you keep coming on them with a ROD and keep condemning them with the WOG, do you think they will still come to the house of God to seek help? Aren’t you so called Christians acting like the Pharisees in the new testaments?”
And what about those name callings? No integrity? False Teacher? ? Woah, is there no more the Fear of the LORD in the house of God? Amazing! I look forwarding meeting all of you on judgement day.
Maybe you Christians can read the article with an open mind. I have read this article 3 times with my husband and never did once do Pastor Kong mentions that it is OK to masturbate so stop putting words into his mouth. As for those of you who argued that you can only fulfil your sexual desire through marriage; then are you trying to say that you are only marrying your wife or husband for sex? I really PITY you and your marriage. What about those SINGLES? Should they also just quickly get married cause if they have a human sexual need, the only ‘correct’ way to release is with your life partner so JUST GET MARRIED TO HAVE SEX!!!! =DDD Say NO to masturbation; Need to release? GET MARRIED. Doesn’t matter if it’s any TOM, DICK or HARRY, Let’s get MARRIEDTO HAVE SEX!!!. (so illogical???) :DDDDD Have FUN!…. Am I preaching or teaching???? HUmmmmm… Just some thoughts for sharing. :DDDD
Hi Pastor Kong, an excellent piece of words and articulated thoughts, addressing every apsect of it. :) help me to understand things better.
Will be great if this mini sharing can be presented as a short sermon ? Yup yup. Break the religious and condemning minds and also able to help people to break free, understand every aspect linked to masturbation.
Cheers.
Regards,
Jacob
The Bible never directly mentions masturbation, but it’s possible that the Bible mentions masturbation indirectly (without condemning it). For example, the Jewish expression, “covering one’s feet,” comes from the practice of standing up while masturbating in a private place. It have not been able to verify if this is true or not, but the euphemism, “covering one’s feet,” is translated as “relieving himself” in two places in the NIV. The first occurrence is in the book of Judges:
Here’s what a prominent Bible commentary says about this passage:
“the king’s servants delayed outside his locked door, figuring that the king was relieving himself (lit., “covering his feet,” a euphemism for body elimination; cf. 1 Sam. 24:3).”
Judges 3:20: “Ehud then approached him [King Eglon] while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace and said, “I have a message from God for you.” As the king rose from his seat,”
Judges 3:21: “Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king’s belly.”
Judges 3:22: “Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it.”
Judges 3:23: “Then Ehud went out to the porch ; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them.”
Judges 3:24: “After he had gone, the servants came and found the doors of the upper room locked. They said, “He must be relieving himself in the inner room of the house.”"
The other reference to “covering his feet” concerns King Saul:
1 Samuel 24:3: “He came to the sheep pens along the way; a cave was there, and Saul went in to relieve himself. David and his men were far back in the cave.”
1 Samuel 24:4: “The men said, “This is the day the LORD spoke of when he said to you, ‘I will give your enemy into your hands for you to deal with as you wish.’” Then David crept up unnoticed and cut off a corner of Saul’s robe.”
Once again, “relieve himself” comes from the euphemism, “cover his feet”:
“Saul’s life was in David’s hands as the king went to relieve himself (lit., “cover his feet,” a euphemism, v. 3)” (The Bible Knowledge Commentary (Old Testament edition)
The argument that some people make is that if King Saul needed to go to the bathroom, he would not normally seek out the privacy of a cave because soldiers of that time went to the bathroom at a designated spot outside the camp (Deuteronomy 23:9-13). But King Saul wanted to “cover his feet” (which refers to masturbation, according to this argument), so he wanted a place where he could have some privacy for awhile. Consider that if King Saul were simply going to the bathroom, it seems unlikely that David would be able to creep up and cut off a piece of Saul’s robe without Saul noticing. But if King Saul were masturbating, it seems more likely that he would be mentally preoccupied enough for David to sneak up on him and take part of his robe. We don’t know what King Saul was doing, but notice that if he was relieving his sexual needs then there is no condemnation of masturbation here.
The above two passages might be describing the simple act of going to the bathroom, but I have included them for the sake of thoroughness because they might be Scriptural examples of masturbation (with no condemnation attached to the practice). Sometimes people point out that Eglon and Saul (in the above passages) weren’t God-fearing men at that point, so if they did something sinful then it wouldn’t have bothered them very much. However, this doesn’t change the fact that there is no condemnation attached to whatever they were doing, nor is there any condemnation attached to masturbation anywhere in the entire Bible.
Look closely at Matthew 5:21-44 (below) and notice that Jesus repeatedly explained the true meanings and intentions behind some of the commands in the Law of Moses. In the case of adultery, Jesus said that it’s not just the outward act of adultery which is sinful, but even the inward desire and intention to commit adultery is sinful:
Matthew 5:21: “”You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’”
Matthew 5:22: “But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.”
Matthew 5:27: “”You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’”
Matthew 5:28: “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully [epithumio] has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
Matthew 5:31: “”It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’”
Matthew 5:32: “But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.”
Matthew 5:33: “”Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.’”
Matthew 5:34: “But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne;”
Matthew 5:35: “or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.”
Matthew 5:38: “”You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’”
Matthew 5:39: “But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:43: “”You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’”
Matthew 5:44: “But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,”
In the above passages, Jesus was clarifying several commands in the Law of Moses, including the command concerning adultery. So Matthew 5:27-28 (above) doesn’t justify the argument that sexual fantasizing is always a sin, because that wasn’t Jesus’ point. His point was that the intention or desire to commit adultery is just as sinful as the act of adultery.
Of course, sexual thoughts are often no different than pornography, in which case they are just as wrong as pornography. But it is unScriptural to claim that all sexual thoughts are sinful because the Bible never says such a thing. In fact, notice that it’s actually a good thing for a husband and wife to have sexual thoughts about each other because this helps enhance their marriage by maintaining their desire for each other.
The New Testament doesn’t give us any specific guidelines about sexual thoughts, but it does tell us to keep our thoughts wholesome and pure (Philippians 4:8, 2 Peter 3:1). So if you find yourself having sexual thoughts or fantasies, ask yourself if you would be comfortable describing those thoughts in detail to your spouse (or your future spouse). This might be a way to help keep your thoughts pure. For example, if you’re thinking about a situation which would not be sinful in real life, then it’s probably not sinful to fantasize about it.
Another type of argument that Christians sometimes make is that we are supposed to be conformed to the likeness of Christ (Romans 8:29), and that we shouldn’t offer the parts of our body to sin (Romans 6:13) because Christ lives in us (Colossians 1:27). Essentially, the argument is that we can’t imagine that Jesus ever masturbated, and we shouldn’t offer our bodies to sin by masturbating, and we shouldn’t cause “Christ in us” to masturbate.
The problem is that this argument starts off by assuming that masturbation is a sin. This argument doesn’t actually prove anything about masturbation. The point here is that first we must prove from the Bible that masturbation is a sin.
Here’s another example. Is it a sin for a wife to take “Christ in her” and make love to her husband? We know that this is not a sin because the Bible specifically says that husbands and wives should make love. Again, the “Christ in us” argument doesn’t prove that making love is acceptable in a marriage. We had to look elsewhere in the Bible to find that proof.
Therefore, if we can’t prove from the Bible that masturbation is a sin, then it is perfectly acceptable to have “Christ in us” and to masturbate, just as it is perfectly acceptable for a husband and wife to have “Christ in them” and to make love.
Similarly, if we can’t prove from the Bible that masturbation is a sin, then it is perfectly acceptable to masturbate even if Jesus never did it, just as it is perfectly acceptable to have sex within marriage even if Jesus never did it.
Masturbation is one of those subjects that brings out strong emotional reactions in Christians, but it’s important to guard against letting our feelings dictate our beliefs.
In the Bible never says or implies or hints that masturbation is a sin.
We saw that there are several passages which might be a description of masturbation, and we saw that those passages do not condemn or forbid masturbation in any way. Apart from those passages, the Bible never mentions masturbation at all. Try doing a computer search in any version of the Bible, and you won’t find any variation of “masturbation” (or any euphemism for masturbation) anywhere in the Bible. Try looking in any New Testament Greek or Old Testament Hebrew dictionaries or lexicons, and you won’t find any listings for any variation of “masturbation” (or any euphemism for masturbation). Try looking in any Bible concordances or topical Bibles, and you won’t find any listings for any variation of “masturbation” (or any euphemism for masturbation).
God did condemn not or forbid masturbation anywhere in the Bible. It’s not an issue. It’s not a sin.
Remember, our goal should always be to honor the Lord in all that we say and do and believe. We should always try to be prayerful and honest and thorough and objective when we study a doctrine. Therefore, when Scripture passages seem to condemn masturbation, be honest with those passages. Find out what those passages really mean, and compare them with the passages in this article. For some reason, masturbation is a subject which causes many people to allow their feelings to dictate their beliefs, which dishonors the Lord.
What it boils down to is that we must elevate Scripture above our feelings and our reasonings, and we must believe what God has chosen to tell us. There is no Scriptural evidence whatsoever that masturbation is a sin. Certainly didn’t expect to come to that conclusion! But like anything else that we do, it’s important to make sure that masturbation is not done in a way which might dishonor the Lord (e.g. becoming addicted, using pornography, improper fantasizing, etc.)
IT SEEMS AFTER READING ABOUT THIS,SOME PEOPLE THINK THIS IS A GUY THING! THAT IS NOT THE CASE! SO WE NEED TO PRAY FOR THE WOMEN AS WELL. IN HIS NAME.
Frankly, I think one can live without sex or masturbation. Apostle Paul and Jesus were 2 great examples of the possibility of walking in purity without the need for gratification or emotional release. The key is meditating on the Word of God and praying in tongues and wanting to live pure.
Remember without holiness no one will see the Lord. I am married but I could live without sex for many months. i have tried it and it works . i am not saying to deny your spouse of closeness also.
In His name For His glory
I just want to alert all those who wish to practise ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” to ask himself/herself the following questions before he/she does so:
1) Can such kind of act glorifying God?
2) Does this wish of ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” came from the Holy Spirit, or another Spirit?
3) If Jesus looks at me at my right side when I am masturbating with ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic” characteristics, will I be fear and stop immediately?
4) If my spouse or mother or pastor is at my right side when I am masturbating with ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic” characteristics, will I be fear and stop immediately?
If you answer “no” for the first two questions and “yes” for the last two questions, it is clear that you sin against God if you does not stop your thought on ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” immediately.
I have one word from my deepest heart to pastor Kong, please help me to tell him. “Let the absolute remain abolute, and let the relative remain relative”. From your writing and the responses from your secretary and members, I consider your church is a “post-modern” church. It’s not wrong to become post-modern. However, the truth is absolutely true in whatever circumstances no matter in Church setting or in coffee shop.
I believe the Holy Spirit wish to speak to you, Kong. “Remember your calling”! You once said, “The message is sacred, but the method is not”. I appreciate you and your church are very “relevant” to the world to win the lost, but remember, you have also to keep your message sacred. Merely strong emotional amusement in worship does not tantament to the presence of God.
As a Scholor my wordings are often analytical (if not critical), but hope this can help you to extend the Kingdom of God!
If the bible (God’s written word) didn’t state that masturbation is a sin, then clearly this is an amoral issue. Let’s not try to be more holy then God Himself.
Romans 14:1-4 clearly stated that we should not dispute over such amoral issue nor to judge one another of their view. Rather, it should be according to one’s own level of faith.
If you have personally received a personal rhema word from the Holy Spirit telling you not to masturbate, then that rhema word is for you alone to obey God and not for you to judge and criticize others. What difference are we from the scribes and pharisees if we simply judge and criticize others for sharing their honest and truthful view instead of esteeming them?
Hi Pastor,
You’re indeed very different from the other pastors out there. The fact that you have the courage to share such controversial issues have won my admiration.
After reading the comments posted above, I felt disheartened to see harmful and nasty comments posted not with the intention to have a healthy discussion, but directed at you. Very often, we see fellow christians trying very hard to put one another down. I believe there are probably some people out there who monitors and scrutinise Pastor’s blogposts, waiting for an opportunity to strike.
I don’t understand why people are putting words into pastor’s mouth, claiming that Pastor said that masturbation is correct/wrong. Unlike his previous blog posts (such as drinking & tatoos), pastor did not state a stand at all. He merely gave facts and information on masturbation. Different view points by different people are published in this article together with statistics. Pastor probably did a lot of research to come up with an informative article like this.
The only portion that showed Pastor’s opinion is the last part of the article. He did not say if masturbation is right or wrong. But he did mention that if masturbation leads to pornography, addiction, resenement in spouse, it is defintely not right to do so. This is rather obvious though.
Some commented that Pastor is twisting the facts in the bible, interpreting it in a way that people like to hear. (In e first place, he didn’t even say if masturbation is right or wrong)
Excuse me, Pastor Kong is probably one of the few spiritual leaders out there who dare to preach about sensitive issues (such as sex, money etc.) Most local churches nowadays are so bothered about retaining their own members that they often preach a message that the congregation will want to hear.
After reading this article, I have a deeper knowledge on what masturbation is, the viewpoints of influential people on this topic and what are the possible dangers of it. I believe God is not a God who will force down His will on us. He gives us the right to make a choice. We, as christians, chose to be one by choice. We are not born by choice, but we can be born in Christ by choice. We choose the church that we want to go to. The Holy Spirit can constantly prompt us on which church to go to, which church to serve in. But ultimately we make our own choices.
God bless!
@ Sola Fide + all who assume that Pastor Kong is an advocate of masturbation.
I must make a point by stating that through this blog, that though Pastor Kong is not against masturbation per se, he does not in any way ADVOCATE, nor is a PROPONENT of masturbation.
@ “Sola Fide” “…only cares what human thinks but not what God [thinks]. Your passage here is no more than an article of humanism but not written from the heart of God”
Pastor Kong exhaustively mentioned throughout this blog entry ALL references and possible mentions of masturbation in the Bible. Through reasoning (Yes, reason was given to us by God by the way!), given the circumstances of the passages, etc, it is clear that the Bible, the Word of God itself, makes no mention of masturbation whatsoever. Through this entry, Pastor Kong states that he shares a similar view towards masturbation, one of neutrality. If it does not state in the Bible (though in Biblical times masturbation did occur!) that masturbation is a sin, how can one assume that it is! Remember “Sola Fide”, of “Sola Scriptura”: the only revelation that comes from God is the Bible.
Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
I sincerely believe that Pastor Kong is simply following the Word of God, especially in Deuteronomy, where it explicitly states that we are not to diminish, but also to NOT ADD THERETO.
@ Sola Fide “However can a man masturbates without thinking a women? A sin has already been committed at the moment he thinks about masturbation!”
Well Sola Fide, contrary to what you state, one can think about thousands of things while he masturbating. For example, one may be thinking of one’s own climax (which is not a sin in and of itself). Another possibility could be one thinking of one’s wife (is it a sin to think of sexual things regarding one’s wife? CERTAINLY NOT). You are making a category mistake and combining UNCLEAN thoughts (which are a sin), with masturbation itself. UNCLEAN THOUGHTS are in fact sins, but masturbation itself is not certainly so.
@ Sola Fide Can masturbation glorify God? Can masturbation comes from the Holy Spirit?
This is an extremely illogical statement. Unfortunately, as human beings, there are certain things we must do that do not necessarily “glorify God” per se. This does not mean that these things are sinful!
Following your logic, so many things humans do on a daily basis would be considered sinful. Using the restroom would be considered sinful, entertaining oneself would be sinful, opening a door would be sinful (these actions that “do not glorify God” or “come from the holy spirit” are not sinful eh?)
@ Sola Fide Did Jesus masturbates in His life on earth? If your answer is also no, what basis from the Bible or Jesus’s life can you support your opinion?
Once again, the Bible DOES NOT MENTION masturbation in an explicit manner, let alone in Jesus’ life, so this cannot be used as a rational argument either. We do, today, many things that Jesus did not necessarily do in his time that may not necessarily be sin! (Jesus did not drive a car, for instance, but it is not a sin to drive a car!)
@ Sola Fide “Kong, I urge you to repent and rewrites your article immediately. Please meditate on the verses above, Kong!”
After reading Pastor Kong’s blog entry you might be saying to yourself, “Okay, but I still feel that masturbation is a sin.” If so, then ask yourself what Scriptural evidence supports your feeling that masturbation is a sin. There isn’t any! The Bible provides us with no evidence at all to support the idea that masturbation is a sin. Therefore, your view is not based on Scripture, but instead it is based on your feelings. In other words, you have elevated your feelings above the authority of Scripture, which is a form of pride.
To reinstate my earlier point, Pastor Kong has made it clear that he IS NOT a proponent of masturbation IN ANY WAY. He is, however, not against it either because the Bible simply does not mention it. Masturbation is a sin, however, when it leads to 1) PORNOGRAPHY (THIS IS THE SIN, NOT necessarily MASTURBATION iTSELF) 2) COMPUSIVITY (ADDICTION IS THE SIN, NOT neccesarily THE MASTURBATION ITSELF) 3) RESENTMENT IN SPOUSE (HATRED/DISGUST TOWARDS YOUR HOUSE IS THE SIN, NOT necessarily MASTURBATION ITSELF)
Hope this clarifies some of everyone’s concerns and thoughts.
Thanks Pst Kong for coming into this topic! This is one issue that causes many men guilt, confusion and condemnation! Looking forward to more of your posts!
Each week in your church helps me to learn more about life. Looking up to you, Pastor! Thank God for a man like you!
As Christian, we are not to judge, there are many readers here judge Pastor Kong for his teaching, sharing, insight etc. Many people agrees and many people don’t, which somehow is always the case when one topic especially those that are sensitive just like this one now which is being discussed or revealed.
But, how many people is willing to take the first step to discuss these topic or share openly? Many are waiting to put the first person who share these topics down.
In the bible about Jesus teachings, many people were astonished after hearing His preachings (Matthew 7: 28) on the topic which is sensitive too which is having authority; which is similiar like our modern day’s teaching / sharing about sex, masturbation, having marital affair or even speaking in tougues!
Pastor Kong is someone who is strong and obedient in listening to God and be yield and led by the Holy Spirit. If not, how can a church grow so big and have strong foundation? Do you take it as listening to himself, lean on his own understanding and don’t trust God? If he don’t hear anything from God or Holy Spirit, I believe he won’t write this too. He must have had gotten ready to face many persecution, espcially from fellow Christians, didn’t Jesus faces persecutions too and was being labeled as the false prophets? Who are the ones who put Jesus on the cross?
Thank you Pastor for the courage and boldness to shed light on this controversial topic.
You are great.
from a woman’s standpoint, i would like to say that it is possible to masturbate without any fantasies, like someone mentioned, you focus on the body’s responses to the stimulation.
also, let’s remember that for most wives it is difficult for them to achieve an orgasm through the act of sexual intercourse alone and if they have selfish husbands then these women would have to find sexual relief through masturbation.
my reflection from this article is (although i wish i can justify masturbation for myself through those 3 points) if it is not done it faith, it doesn’t please God – even if you didn’t have lustful thoughts in your head.
listen, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS “in a nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic way” if you were mastubating in this way you would not be aroused???
ALL MASTUBATION IS LUSTFUL AND FUELED BY PORNOGRAPHY (the only exception being a pre teen just hitting puberty)
PASTOR KONG I WORRY THAT YOU MAY BE STARTING TO EMBRACE LAWLESSNESS
you say tatoos are alright (although they are rooted in strongholds)
you say drinkings alright
you say mastubations alright
my question is, do we want a church filled with TATOOED DRUNKEN WANKERS????
well, in a way, i do think Pastor Kong did made a stand on masterbation ( i might be wrong here), because i do think 99% of males would not be able to masterbate without either watching porn or thinking of images from it.
I believe that all male christians know that its not totally right (though not wrong too) to masterbate hence the struggle within us.
I respect Pastor Kong for bringing out this topic, for putting himself in the line of fire so please, even if u don’t agree with him, do not condemn him too.
if im to be perfectly honest with u, I do masterbate once in a while. I did try my best to not do it, but after like almost 1.5mths, i find myself having sexual thoughts almost every other hour of the day which i think is much worse.
Just wanna say i totally agree with the poster who said ” It is by God’s grace that we overcome temptation’, so pls pray for me too :)
To Susan Tay,
May I know which part of the post in specific did Kong says that “Masturbation is ok”??
Thanks
hey pastor, thumbs up for this post! thanks for sharing! (:
Thanks Pastor for this article. It definately help those who struggle btw masturbation and their Christian life.
cheers
What’s Up with Gambling?
Maybe an interesting parallel can be drawn with the topic of gambling. We generally consider it a ’sin’ (insert theological reference here), I suspect because it is an easy thing to adhere to i.e. most Christians do not wake up in the middle of the night having a strong urge to gamble. I wouldn’t venture to say that it is categorically ‘amoral’ as masturbation is, but the Bible also says remarkably little about it.
By extension, we can somehow derive that gambling is not strictly a sin unless it leads to addiction, compulsive behaviour, or a detest of honest ways of making a living, no?
I appreciate this comment by Pastor Kong to clear the air regarding this issue, but fear this gradual ‘opening up’. I can already imagine some young people running along with this blog post as a licence for self-indulgence. In a way, it is becoming harder for a leader or counseller to confront, ‘police’ or ’speak into’ a young person’s choice of lifestyle or habits. Increased freedom in various areas, perhaps a sign of a maturity, means that young people have to grow up quickly, and more pressure is put on the individual to choose for him/herself. Sometimes the best advertisement for something is even speaking about it at all.
As what Paul says in 1 Cor 10:23-33,
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.
I strongly agree with what Pst. Kong said in one of his sermons that “virtue = innocence tested”. May we all run our race well and choose carefully to win (the !*Prize*!) :)
alternative view point..check this out
http://www.geocities.com/dcheddie/lust1.html
I believe the motives of the heart is more impt than the action of the crime. Checking our heart should be the most impt thing.
You guys need a chill pill!
First off, thanks pastor kong for discussing about this urgent topic that is really prevalent among youths right now. Eventually everyone has to take a stand for themselves whether or not masturbation is right for them.
I’m juz shocked at how some people take such a one-sided view on this topic and forget about taking an open-minded look at this.
Pastor kong definetely did not approve nor disapprove masturbation outrightly in this article and people with comments should stop putting words in his mouth.
Thank you,
Agitated..
I wonder why people are so confused over here. He neither said it is sin or not, but its the fruit of it that really matters.
Many people are confused over the fact that masturbation cannot be done without having lustful thoughts in mind. If so, don’t masturbate. Why would you ever even want to consider it then? :)
I know I can’t, and I know it will lead me to addictions. So with Gods grace and help I avoid it.
I don’t really know if anyone could masturbate without a lustful thought or not. But the point is that he never says that masturbation ‘can’ be performed without lustful thoughts or thoughts leading to pornography. What he says is that if it leads to any of these things, and then you better not do it.
If ‘you’ believe your masturbation doesn’t contradict with any of the biblical teachings like lusting then how can it be considered wrong?
But better keep in mind that you cannot cheat God. You know if you are lusting or not. And you should know that you will be judged based on your personal deeds.
It is a very sensitive topic which hardly gets addressed so it is more likely to stir up a lot of controversy. So I thank Pastor Kong for writing up on this and I urge all of you to be in the Holy Spirit especially when you are reading sensitive topics like this.
With what was told, Pastor Kong is not a person who would judge anyone/anything or someone who’ll set rules for us to follow. I know some expected him to say that masturbation is sin while some expected him to say it is not. But he always leads the conclusion for us to decide on (because in the end it’s your relationship with Jesus that really counts). It’s our duty to clear it out with God. Think whether if you can masturbate without breaking Gods heart. Ask for his guidance and he will surely reveal his will to you. Pastor did what he could and what he had to do so kudos to him.
Peace and God bless you all. :)
Firstly, i would like to say that Pastor Kong is a Great man of God and his sermons has impacted many people and change their lives for the better!…some of you may disagree with him and yes this is a controversial topic so i can see why there will be conflicts in opinion but i think that you guys should at Least give him some respect. Thanks =)
Ps kong said “As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out.” He did not say “Go masturbate!” or that its okay! So i hope some of you could stop intepreting things wrongly or putting words in his mouth. Yep so calm down and most importantly (as you guys are a child of God as well) Respect and honor him! By doing so we are honoring God as well =] God bless!
Cheers Jerod
Hey Pastor Kong,
I heard that there are lots of things that you can’t say in this topic. Actually what I am concerned is whether is there a lot of information that was missed out. Personally, I hope that you ca be daring in putting all information you have down so that we can really know what exactly is the essence or disadvantages of masturbation even though I know that there are certain things that you can’t say. However, I must admit that this post is really wonderful, I learnt a lot from this. i hope you can help us continue to tackle habits that most people (including christians) can give up.
I believe God gives every single person a certain measure
of self control with regards to this matter.
In 1 Corinthians 10:13, God’s Word states clearly that God is a faithful God, he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.”
Some people are born with a high level of self control and can manage that.
But I’m sure there are many single people out there who cannot control themselves and what do you expect these people to do ?
In the physical aspect, non-compulsive masturbation really doesn’t necessary have to lead to any form of addiction or sin.
Also, the M word doesn’t violate any of the 10 commandments so
let us not add extra meaning to what God put on the list on Mt Sinai and end up becoming a stumbling block to many of the souls Jesus wants to save.
If you have a single brother or sister or a close friend who is not married, do you think God should condemn him to hell for finding a way to let go of the in built sexual tension in him or her ?
Not everyone is created the same physically.
For those people who have a less degree of self control, Masturbation can be the way to prevent the person mentioned in the above example from making unrecoverable mistakes with regards to the opposite sex.
I’m sure there are single people out there who wants to stay pure for their future husband / wife but do not have that much self control.
If the sexual tension cannot be released by non harmful means then it might end up worse with the single person ends up
a) Choosing an unsuitable person as a life partner.
b) Visiting a prostitute and getting a sexually transmitted disease
c) Committing a sexual crime such as molest / rape
(c) sounds a bit extreme but it can happen
Based on the points presented by Pst Kong and from a balanced perspective, let’s just all admit that whether you are a man or a woman, everyone is created with a need to experience love in tangible and intangible ways.
In Singapore, there are many many singles out there who try very very hard to find themselves a life partner but they simply cannot find and what do you expect them to do ?
Shall we behave like an ultra religious Pharisee and go to these single Christians and single non Christians and persecute and judge them with immorality ?
So I hope everyone can just drop the tug of war over this issue and if you are a Christian reading this let’s all focus on the many bigger issues that God wants us to work on today like bringing your friends and family to church for service on Sunday and minister the love of God to them.
Dear Pastor Kong,
Thank you for touching this sensitive topic on MASTURBATION, aka PAK CIU CENG or PCC (meaning hit hand gun in hokkien).
Ever since i became a christian, I have tried to stop masturbating as the holy spirit was convicting me. Of course, at times, I failed and will reset the “X NUMBER OF DAYS NEVER PCC” counter.
Hence, I believe that you should have approach this topic in this manner:
1) Masturbation is a sin
2) God forgives the sinner, and his grace and mercy allows us not to give up the fight against this habit.
3) Ways to stop this habit.
Nonetheless i have 2 questions:
1) There was once when i didnt PCC for 3 weeks, my testicles felt painful. So the immediate reaction was to PCC (I admit i should have prayed). After that, the pain was gone, but the semen was wierd. It was like yellowish jelly pellets. My question is: in this kind of event, am I sinning?
2) I will have to disagree with you that when a Man PCC, some kind of shit has to run in our minds. How can we have a blank mind? Hence technically, your concept on BLANK MASTURBATION is kind of impossible, unless someone points a gun at my head!
seems that many people have problems differentiating whether pastor is encouraging masturbation or whether he is indifferent to it. nowhere in the article does he himself say that masturbation should be practiced. for crying out loud stop attacking every single article that doesn’t directly condemn the subject. and stop twisting the author’s words and then saying that the author is twisting God’s words.
yes, he may have missed out matthew 5:28. but he didn’t say that masturbation is the right thing to do in that context either.
one thing is for sure, pastor isn’t afraid of controversy. kudos to you, pastor kong.
pastor kong,you brought out something that many people especially we christian ourself dare not to voice out.I hear something and I learned something.
I’m starting to learn many things after listening to your preaching and many preachers that you invited to your church to preach in singapore.Many many truths in the bible that are blinded by the devil and causes many conflicts and arguments between christian.
I just know what you say is right because i read it with my heart,but not argue with my mind.
mind blowing!
this article is totally awesome as many people are living in the grey area of their lives,not the black and white.Now we know the line and its either we cross it or we stay.
hope to hear from you more of these topics and continue to shine for God,and he will exalt you.
God bless you ps kong and sun =)
Thank you pastor for “risking it” to touch on such a difficult topic. Many would rather sweep it under the carpet. Whether readers agree with your writings or not is secondary. Maybe those who hit out hard are the very people who have deprived themselves for many years..only to realize that God said “CELEBRATE” and not “CELEBATE”. And they wanna maintain their status quo?
I think we should all be objective about what pastor is sharing here. He has already said that these are purely his opinions. Nothing to do with the biblical truths or facts. Just pure vanilla opinions. I suppose he’s talking to us as a friend or talk between man-man.
If anyone should “stone” pastor for sharing his opinions, we all have to be stoned together because we already have our own deeply engrained for years.
Personally, I feel that no Christian addressed this topic of masturbation well except the late Dr Edwin Louis Cole. It was direct and simple to understand. And my feel is that he has “set the standard” with strict reference to a few bible verses, although we failed times and times over (too high standards). It’s almost impossible to control something that we can have no control over (e.g. try controlling your autonomic nervous system). I’m also not sure if we can solve the problem by “cutting it off”. Yikes…
God created our physical being with great thoughtfulness. I mean, our nose points downwards (so that it will not trap rainwater or become pencil holders), we have ears on each side of our head high up to capture sound from 2 sides clearly. Our bums are placed below with the anus faced down and not on the head pointing upward – saved us the problem of having to do hand stand everyday or poop lying on our bed and sleep with it. And He wants us to poo in comfort – where we can sit down, have a break, read the day’s paper and have breakfast while we poop! I mean He thought deeply about our welfare! He must also have thought about our sexuality, and have masturbation as a way for all to relieve all the pent up desires, renew the reproductive fluids, etc – before we get married and be joined with one another. He also created the act of nose digging. It’s dirty and gross but serves a function and “gives pleasure” as well to the digger.. oh man…
If God did not mean it for pleasure, He will not make our reproductive organs full of nerve endings. Reproduction can be made mechanical and dull (i.e. simple 3-steps – just oil it, stuff it, get over and done with it and out comes the baby) but He did not make it that way. No sexual pleasures requird. He made it extremely pleasureble for both His creations. He also placed the most sensitive parts of the sexual organs externally (Penis + Clitoris for both sexes) that respond to physical stimulation. If masturbation is sin then God, in not delighting in us sinning, would have hidden it. He’s not stupid.
It was exactly in His design blueprint that God want Man to enjoy the sensation of their sexual organs and have great pleasure in sex (for couples) or masturbation for singles to release pent up desires and frustrations. This is my opinion – because when they sinned, God was so angry that He cursed the woman with unbearable pain during childbirth, while man have to till the ground (my guess: so that he get so tired at work he lose the desire for sex). It is thus reasonable to deduce that God’s original plan of the process of reproduction was meant to be painless and fully pleasurable. I mean, you won’t call it a punishment if you do not “take away pleasure and inflict pain”..
So my opinion is that God designed masturbation as part of His design in Man. He meant to allow us to enjoy the pleasure of it. Masturbation is an important part of human lives, otherwise single men/women will be deprived and get emotionally hay-wired and imbalanced. God won’t create a human part and then expect humans to remove it ourselves (e.g. genital mutilation). He put it there, the functions are there, don’t waste it!
The next issue is the act of “seeing” sexual pictures while masturbating… gee… I really don’t know about this… I guess with the understanding and technologies of NLP, some people can probably get arousal by looking at other things like a cup, speakers, pen/pencil, the ocean, mountain, etc. Maybe just sing a song.
I wonder how sperm donors did it. Tell me these people sinned. Wonder how men going for fertility tests did it. Wonder how Jesus did it. Bible never say Jesus did not masturbate. Bible said He understood everything we go through.
I’m in full agreement that the act of masturbation is normal and necessary as part of human function in male/female but the act that it becomes a habit that results in addiction to the act itself, to pornography, hormonal imbalance, sexual crime, adultery, etc (like pastor said) is way off.
Having buffet once in a while is no sin. But having buffet 5 times a day, everyday is gluttony. Same goes for masturbation and everythng else.
And when all these fails, think about Deut 29:29 and look at the bigger picture… take it easy on pastor guys… masturbating will not cause church split, and non-masturbation will just make some sane people crazy… maybe the pope should blog… then we can ask the pope how he avoids doing it (or does it *ocasionally*).
And we can talk and argue about it, and some christians in this world is doing it right now.
Topics of this type are often read differently than God reads them. Tradition is something we have to guard ourselves from. We have to continually deny our flesh. If we serve our belly and make food our God, we sin. The same would apply with masturbation. There is not a righteous brush that can cover all this for everybody. It will always be the condition of the heart and the intent of the person. Anything we put before God, IS sin. Some may be able to withstand this and some may not. If your mind is set daily, you can do anything. Do not continue in the “I do not know”. Everyone must know what they believe, why they believe it, prepare to act on it, and be able to defend it.
Come now brothers, let us reason……Don’t decide(anything) because of emotion or any of the human, 5 physical senses.
Live by faith
God Bless
GW
I support Sola Fide, words are being spoken from the Truth!!! Go back to wwjd (what would Jesus do), in this case what would Jesus say? It’s not up to us to be the judge among people. There are no exceptions to Holliness and Purity. It is what it is.
Guys, pls go back to your bible and to the Lord. Only He is the source of wisdom. and Truth. Don’t put your hope and trust in Man. Human make mistakes.
Very well written!
Great Information….I work with teens and this is always very controversial and sensitive….thanks for giving a more indepth understanding of the biblical piece.
Thanks pastor Kong for addressing this issue ! You are a great theologian and I always highly value your Biblical teachings and I apply it to my life and also to my marriage life.
I thank God for your great wisdom.
I do have question about the technicalities of masturbation. For a married man, I understand that during the course of masturbation, he can fantasize it of performing sexual acts with his wife.
But I do wonder about the application of masturbation for a single man. My best guess is that for single man, it will be safe for them to perform it in the absence of sexual fantasy.
If you have time, I would like to seek your guidance and advise in the light of this thought.
@ Peter Rowe “listen, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS “in a nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic way” if you were mastubating in this way you would not be aroused??? ALL MASTUBATION IS LUSTFUL AND FUELED BY PORNOGRAPHY (the only exception being a pre teen just hitting puberty)”
That may be the case for you. Then you shouldn’t masturbate Peter. Pastor Kong explicitly mentioned that if it leads to three things, you should not do it. Philosophically speaking, however, just as you mentioned, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS. Contrary to what you stated, there are more exceptions. However, EVERYONE READ THIS DISCLAIMER AGAIN PLEASE: if the three exceptions do not apply to you, then Pastor does not condone masturbation for you. :) He just simply does not want to read people’s minds and judge them if they feel they can do it in a “pure” manner.
@ Peter Rowe “PASTOR KONG I WORRY THAT YOU MAY BE STARTING TO EMBRACE LAWLESSNESS
you say tatoos are alright (although they are rooted in strongholds)
you say drinkings alright
you say mastubations alright”
No. Lawlessness (antinomianism) is not condoned by Pastor Kong at all! Going back to the most basic and foundational paradigms, Pastor Kong preaches the Ten Commandments and the importance of maintaining them. It would be nonsensical to state that he is Lawless if he adheres to the 10 commandments and the great commission.
Well yes! tattooing is alright! Why? One of the reasons is because Jesus said, “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.” (Matthew 23:25-28, KJV)
And yes! Drinking is alright! But in MODERATION. Yes, MODERATION. Drunkedness is not something that Pastor Kong said was okay whatsoever!
No. Pastor Kong never said masturbation is alright. He only said that it is if you could fulfill the three criteria. Can you do that Peter Rowe? If not, then he would not condone it for you. His conclusion is that it is a matter between you and God, not between you and him.
@Peter Rowe “my question is, do we want a church filled with TATOOED DRUNKEN WANKERS????”
You would be surprised to hear my answer: but YES. Pastor Kong would want ANY sinner to come to his church and receive Jesus’ salvation. Remember, We ARE ALL sinners who fall short of his perfect image, this includes tattooed people (not a sin in and of itself), people who drink alcohol (not necessarily a sin) AND drunkards, and people who masturbate. Why? We need Jesus.
Who do you think should go to church Peter? :)
Sola Fide, you are very arrogant … my respond to your post:
” Kong, you only cares on what human thinks but not what God things. Your passage here is no more than an article of secular humanism but not written from the heart of God! ”
Who are you to comment on this? Are you God or the Holy Spirit to claim that it what Pastor Kong is writing is not on God’s heart. You must be a self-centered narcissist to take the position that anything you disagree with is therefore not from the Lord!
” “self-stimulation is worrying only if …” -> Kong, please state it clear whether masturbation is sin or not! Whether masturbation is sin or not does not depend on how great the effect it brings or how many people be affected but depends on what the Bible speaks about it! Why you only considers from the heart of man but not heart of God? ”
First, show me a place where the Bible talks about masturbation and calls it a sin! There are a lot of things in life that is neither black or white. It all depends on the motives, attitudes and circumstances. If you can’t see this, you are extremely immature in life and in the things of the Lord.
” “the Scripture is relatively silent about it,,,” -> You are completely wrong! Jesus said it very clearly, “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matt 5:28). How can a man masturbates without thinking a woman? A sin has already been committed at the moment he thinks about masturbation! ”
There are many who masturbate without thinking or looking at a woman. When a man is ordered by the doctor to take a sperm sample for health problems, it is a clinical medical procedure. Why don’t you interview such husbands to find if they are reading porn or looking at a woman when they do that? You are adding words into the inspired Holy Bible and you should beware of presumptuous sin! Pay a visit to a gynaecologist and ask them how they collect do sperm count on husbands seeking to conceive with their wife!
” “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander (Matt 15:19)”. The only reason of masturbation is to satisfy sexual desires without a spouse. This is completely against the reason why God created man and woman and marriage. Kong, think twice before you write any articles. Can masturbation glorifies God? Is masturbation comes from the Holy Spirit? Did Jesus masturbates in His life on earth? If your answer is also no, what basis from the Bible or Jesus’s life can you support your “personal opinion”? ”
By the way, does Jesus bathe on earth? Did Jesus pass His urine or bowels? Are you saying He didn’t because there is no verse that says that in Bible? Similarly, do you have Bible verses to prove explicitly that (a) masturbation doesn’t glorify God? (b) Masturbation explicitly doesn’t come from the Holy Spirit? (c) That Jesus didn’t masturbate in His life on earth? If your answer is no, then can you be less arrogant to admit that you just don’t know?
” Kong, answer me, is it possible for you to rape a woman without having pornography in your mind? Certainly not! It is completely nonsense to states that “a person masturbates without pornography”. The Broad Guiding Principle here is that, no matter masturbation, raping or ultra-marrial sex, whenever a man willingly act to release his semen from his penis apart being caused by sexual intercourse with his spouse, a sexual need has clearly been satisfied. Satisfying sexual need apart from his spouse is clearly a sin in the Bible! ”
Have you interviewed a dozen rapists to check if they have pornographic images in their mind? If not, how can you make a conclusive deduction. Pastor Kong did say that extreme compulsive masturbation can lead to other deviant sexual behaviours, which may include molestation or even rape. But what a minute! Extreme working can lead to workaholism, does that make it wrong to work? Extreme Bible studies can lead to Pharisaism, does that make it wrong to study the Bible? Sola Fide, your logic is warped!
” Kong, you lack integrity. Just because you practise ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” does not make it less sinful. It is completely non-sense to say “the act of self-stimulation is worrying only if…”. If it is a sin, no matter in what level it practised, it is sin against God! If it is not a sin, no matter how deep it is practised, it still not a sin. Yes, I falls into masturbation occationally, but I admit clearly to God and repent everytime I sin. But I would not try to rationalize my acts by changing some absolute truth into relative theory! ”
Since when did Pastor Kong practice “nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation”? Did he say that in his blog? Do you need to have your eyes checked? Read the blog again, he was quoting what some renown people say on both sides of the argument.
” Kong, I urge you to repent and rewrites your article immediately. Otherwise I will consider you as a false teacher, which I don’t want to do so. I welcome you to contact me at adverthk@gmail.com for further discussion. As the sons and daughters of God we no need to sacrifice the truth in exchange for souls! Please meditate on the verses above, Kong! ”
You are a very arrogant young man. May God have mercy on your pride.
To Terence
You seem to have completely missed my point.
I pointed out that the bible does not outrightly say that masturbation, oral sex and anal sex is sin. But they are a form of perversion – something not of God’s original intention.
I also did not say that all sexual urges is sin.
I mentioned that sex, in the first place is a gift from God. When sex is the entire preoccupation (in your mind) then it becomes a bondage.
Something is obviously wrong if you find yourself losing control over an area in your life.
But Christ has come to set us free.
Ps Kong Hee:
I used to think highly of you and how you are reaching out to this generation of young people. Indeed God has blessed you and given you increase.
Just be careful not to think that numbers is always proof of God’s approval and endorsement of your ministry. On the contrary, it could also be satan’s plan – to achieve his goal of mass deception and to weaken the body of Christ.
Young people can be easily misled. They want a hero they can look up to. As their spiritual leader, just be mindful that you are accountable for the sheep that God has placed under your care.
In your quest for new (or fresh) revelation, just be careful you don’t cross the line and introduce teachings and doctrines that deviate from the Word of God.
May I suggest that you get a dedicated group of intercessors to specially uphold you and cover you in prayer so that your ministry will be in line with His will and you will not move out of His anointing.
Shalom!
Read Sola Fide’s post on June 20th 12:50am. He is missing out the whole point and is being self-righteous. My reply to him:
I just want to alert all those who wish to practise ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” to ask himself/herself the following questions before he/she does so:
1) Can such kind of act glorifying God?
How does such an act unglorifying to God? You need to prove this.
2) Does this wish of " nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation" came from the Holy Spirit, or another Spirit?
Well, are you the Holy Spirit? The statement is not attributed to Pastor Kong, it was spoken by a pastor by the name of Mark Driscoll in Seattle.
3) If Jesus looks at me at my right side when I am masturbating with " nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic" characteristics, will I be fear and stop immediately?
Just because you may “fear” doesn’t mean that all would fear. If you are so absolute about that there is no masturbation at all cost, then when a gynaecologist wants to help a married couple to conceive, there is no way to ascertain the sperm count of the husband. Also, AI and IVF will definitely be out of the question for couples who can’t conceive naturally. Then you should write an email to the Medical Association of your city to ban this, as well as to all Christian doctors who regularly get their sperm samples of their male patients through masturbation.
4) If my spouse or mother or pastor is at my right side when I am masturbating with " nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic" characteristics, will I be fear and stop immediately?
When you change your clothes, or shower, or consummate with your wife, and your mother and pastor is at your right side, will you fear and stop immediately? Just for your info, many Christian married couples adopt masturbation and pleasuring in the midst of their sexual intercourse. Sola Fide, are you already married?
If you answer "no" for the first two questions and "yes" for the last two questions, it is clear that you sin against God if you does not stop your thought on " nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation" immediately.
Again, this statement is attributed to Pastor Mark Driscoll to show the both sides of the argument. You are obviously not good at English comprehension.
I have one word from my deepest heart to pastor Kong, please help me to tell him. "Let the absolute remain abolute, and let the relative remain relative". From your writing and the responses from your secretary and members, I consider your church is a "post-modern" church. It’s not wrong to become post-modern. However, the truth is absolutely true in whatever circumstances no matter in Church setting or in coffee shop.
Didn’t Pastor Kong say that for him, “the jury is still out”? That means he is not absolutely sure about this subject. And no one could be. It is one of those “disputable things” the New Testament talks about. Sola Fide, if you can be so sure that masturbation is sin when the Bible is silent, then you must be smarter than all the thousands of Church theologians combined in the last 2,000 years because this debate has gone on for the longest time. Humble yourself, young man!
I believe the Holy Spirit wish to speak to you, Kong. "Remember your calling"! You once said, "The message is sacred, but the method is not". I appreciate you and your church are very "relevant" to the world to win the lost, but remember, you have also to keep your message sacred. Merely strong emotional amusement in worship does not tantament to the presence of God.
I believe every idle word will be accountable before the Lord. Both yours and Pastor Kong’s. Stop being so self-righteous, and project your own lustful failures upon all who are older in the faith and have walked longer in the Lord than you have. You have been projecting your subjective interpretation on verses that doesn’t talk about masturbation. In the name of keeping the Bible sacred, name me a verse that says masturbation is wrong. Just one! Can you?
As a Scholor my wordings are often analytical (if not critical), but hope this can help you to extend the Kingdom of God!
Oh, stop flattering yourself. You are neither scholarly or analytical. I suggest you retake your high school English comprehension courses. For the last 20 years, Pastor Kong has never depended on you for the extension of God’s kingdom and I doubt he needs to depend on you now.
Thank you, Pastor. Such boldness is appreciated.
Is this a promotion stunt?
Hey, I think WhiteCloud makes sense!
Ultimately, we should just follow the voice of God and obey what
He tells us to do. If we aren’t sure about certain facts like this, we should just PRAY to Him.
Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be open unto you.
I believe the bible verse is applicable to ALL situations. And so it applies to this as well. Praise God!!
Deep in our hearts God has planted a conscience, I believe.
So you yourself should know if this act of masturbation draws you away from God or not. Then you will know how to act accordingly. :)
In the bible, the IMPORTANCE of LOVE is also re-instated and enforced.
So you can evaluate for youself if your GREAT LOVE for God, for your neighbours etc. accomodates the act of masturbation. Does it disagree with it or does it allow it?
Then you shall have your answer. :)
I believe Love is PURE. :)
So is masturbation pure? To you? The answer can be a ‘yes’ or ‘no’.
Since it is not really stated in the bible, it is appropriate to take it for now that it’s CIRCUMSTANTIAL. Therefore, let God address every individual in His own way regarding this issue.
In that case, SPEAK with God. And OPEN our hearts to receive His
response!!
I am just a simple Christian. Pst Kong has taken on courageously a topic that is real, relevant and affects the life of millions of Christians and non-Christians in the marketplace. Since the verdict is and will remain open because of the lack of specific and unambiguous evidence in the Bible, there is no need for anyone to lay claim on who is right and who is wrong since no human is any wiser.
It, however, gives me grave concern when I see God-loving people ( I am sure they are) started throwing rude accusations at Pst Kong, blinding themselves to the need for mutual respect and creating divisions in THE Church. This, I am sure, is definitely more sinful than the topic itself.
I will pray for those people who have done so. Amen.
I see there are more sub topics that appear out of the main topic.
Let’s examine them one by one to close them up.
1) Sperm Banks & Donation
a) if your wife doesn’t want to bear you children that early.
b) You are getting advanced in your childbearing years
c) You want children of your own once your other half is ready
Then of course with the help of modern science which helps family planning and works against divorces, if you want to raise a child both the husband and wife must come to agreement.
And until agreement happens, we should use what is available to help us fulfill our purpose to procreate perhaps at a later stage of life. Simple and straightforward. Starting a Godly family is a good thing !
2) What goes in the mind of the married man when they
masturbate ?
Who else but their wife ? I think this is pretty straightforward.
3) If the wife is pregnant or overseas and the man masturbates is
that wrong?
Refer to point (2)
4) Masturbating without thinking of the opposite sex.
Difficult but possible and definitely not something that cannot
be controlled until it turns into addiction or it becomes an idol
over the lives of a Christian.
5) What goes in the mind of the single when they masturbate ?
Refer to (4) If you can do (4) your self control is ok.
6) What would Jesus do ?
I believe if that person is a single half way in the act I don’t think Jesus will suddenly show up and tell you hey stop whatever you are doing and repent. That can be really scary.
I do suggest that person go and earnestly seek God in prayer and ask that God grant him the desires of the heart that he help the person find the right partner in the time to come.
At the same time, help the single person prepare for a life where two becomes one flesh. Based on the word of God, we are all asked to seek and we will find, knock and it will be given to us.
7) Masturbation doesn’t glorify God ?
If a single person wants to keep himself / herself pure for his future husband / wife and yet cannot attain a level of self control over the hormones, then this is the right solution to settle for rather than go to find a prostitute right ?
That single is trying his very best to take care of the precious gift of virginity which was given to him by God. So why should that person be subjected to condemnation ? That person is obviously making an attempt not to sin.
Just wondering what Ps Kong has any research on young boys touching themselves? Boys as young as 2+ start to explore their genitals by touching which sometimes causes erection. They feel amuse by it and realises that it is a good feeling. Sometimes, the child could be sitting on a chair or standing at the edge of the table and realise that they can rub against it to get that good feeling. There is nothing sexual about it, but more a physical sensation.
In my profession, we do not discourage the special needs children (very young ones and older ones) in our care to stop touching themselves, but to do it privately in their own bedrooms,
Do we also tell that to our own children (young ones) that it is okie to touch as long as they do it privately? Thanks
Oh and one more thing regarding the verdict is open with regards
to this topic.
Don’t worry about this judging thing and praise God that the verdict open.
I believe God’s will is to let what is open to be open until he comes back, that’s why we have gray areas in the bible.
It is written when Christ comes back the saints will be the ones who judge the world.
If you are a Christian, then you are a SAINT.
At that time I’m sure those who support and don’t support will be part of the jury right ?
Then we will the final outcome based on what the overall jury decides by then.
I pray I will be the first to cast my vote though.
I vote that it is not a sin as long as this does not damage a man’s relationship with God because remember Jesus said this …
“Love god with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself”.
So if phonographic, compulsive, and spouse resentful masturbation damages the relationship with God then I pray that those people who practice that repent.
Simple and straightforward.
Wao! Pastor, that is a very daring passage. But you really have enlighten alot of young christian who is struggling in these. I have christian friends whom we have discussed recently. Well I think this is a good website to ask them come for better understanding. Thanks Pastor!
Good topic.
No matter how you present your point, there will be disagreement. Instead of judging or agreeing with Kong, why not spend time meditating and do further study on this topic. Ask the Holy Spirit to teach you. You will get a good conclusion.
The judgmental spirit should be avoided!
I agree with Simple Believer!!!! Everything you said is so correct!!
Pls follow the Bible and get covering from a group of intercessors, you cannot move alone with your independent princples and doctrines without having someone to check if you are going against the will of GOD. This can get very dangerous for the young generation!!! Pls do not abuse your power. Something is not right here..
I want to respond to those who criticised me like “RoyJr” above in konghee.com.
“You are so pride. Are you the Holy Spirit?” –> Yes, I am not the Holy Spirit. But I am filled by the Holy Spirit. I will not answer you, but the Spirit that dwells in me answers you “Listen, O Israel! I am the Spirit of the Living God!”. “Sola Fide” means by faith alone. By faith I am filled by the Holy Spirit and writes my respond in love to make the church of the living God clean, pure and faithful.
Those who asked me “Are you the Holy Spirit?”, I want you to know that Derek Dunn, the pastor in your church always adds “said the Spirit of the Living God” every time he prophesies. If you criticises me you are criticising Pastor Derek also. Although I am not charismatic, I respect those who claims to receive the “Spirit of Phophesy” and I never attack them in the way you attack me.
“You are so pride… You are judging pastor Kong openly…” Hey geys, you are judging me when you writes this sentence. If I, Sola Fide, stands firm in the Holy Spirit by Faith and speaks the heart of God to you is “pride” and “judging”, then you would consider Paul as “pride” and “judging” when he wrote 1 Cor and 2 Cor. Since Kong wrote this article openly I just comment openly. If he is pure no one can make him less holy with comments. The Holy Spirit will give you knowledge to discren, guys.
I never criticised Kong personally. One of the comment written above using my name “Sola Fide” said Kong misinterpretes the Bible is not written by me. In future all of my writings would be signoff as “Jesse Mak, Sola Fide” at the end of it. I urge all of you please don’t write any articles in my name without my permission.
“Pastor Kong don’t need you to help him extend the Church” –> I don’t believe such a statement with pride comes from Kong. It is so pride to say that you are perfect and don’t need the other organs in the body of Christ. I never said that I have learnt nothing from Kong.
Love,
Jesse Mak, Sola Fide
My response to Sola Fide and SimpleBeliever:
It seems from your comments that you are disturbed by the fact that Rev Kong Hee seems to be misleading people from your point of view. All the debates that went on revolve around whether masturbation is right or wrong in biblical context. There are also claims to say that Rev Kong Hee is a false prophet and teacher.
Let’s keep this matter simple. Jesus says you shall know a tree by its fruits. A good tree can never bear bad fruits. Neither can a bad tree bear good fruits. If Rev Kong Hee is indeed misleading his people, then his degradation of his moral stands will surely be reflected in his congregation.
I have a suggestion. Why don’t you check out on his fruits or his congregation and report to the internet community on your findings? Attend his church for 3 to 4 months. Join a cell group in his church. Be fair to him. Give yourself ample time to understand the fruits that he bear. After a period of time, share with us what you have discovered in the general masses.
Are most of the members living in sin? Do the members walk in love and purity? Are the members having strong marriages? Do the members have strong bonds among one another? Is the church in division?
I feel that surely if Rev Kong Hee is misguiding people with his distorted teachings, such undesired values will be reflected in the general masses of the congregation.
Please help the internet community. Your findings will be of a great help.
Thanks Sola Fide and SimpleBeliever. God bless. :)
Yes, I’m with you Sola Fide!!! Thank you for speaking up.
Dear Sola Fide
I agree ’sacredness’ is not so apparent in ‘post-modern’ evangelical settings. I applaud you for pointing that out, ‘masturbation’ is not the most classy topic to discuss, I can see it’s kind of denigrating and de-moralising in a way if you revere God with the utmost holiness, respect etc. Hold onto that, the world is unclean and they need more people like you to revere God like that, but be on guard righteousness don’t take a hold of your faith, it can be a fine line sometimes.
I also think you should consider the demographics of the recent wave of charismatic churches. The stark difference between the wave for example in South Korea and why it is relatively conservative in comparison to City Harvest Church I’d say is in the demographics. The new wave of revival is gonna be swept by young people. In a sense alot of christians would like to be like you and our grandparents leading clean, wholesome lives.
You should hold onto that, if the world was perfect oneday then I hope we would regard our Father like you, revering and cherishing the Almighty holy, holy with no need to indulge in atrocious thoughts like masturbating. Unfortunately the condition of the world today particularly with young people and with the issue of sexuality has gone way way overboard. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but we are bombarded daily with sexually explicit suggestions, trashy, cheap, money-survival driven principles.
Pornography, prostitution are booming industries and it’s becoming more affordable for anyone in society, even young people to engage in such things. We live in a different season today, you are lucky to reside in the holy bubble of City Harvest Church to shield you from reality, but there is a real world out there, a hurting world and Ps Kong is stepping out and bringing to light some issues which may alleviate some of these worries.
Ps Kong could easily ignore it all and just talk about holy, holy, holy God and I’m sure he does that majority of time but how do you compete with Britney Spears with that? unfortunately the hormones ravishing in young people today are more likely to dicate their actions than holy holy distant God to them. I’m sure all of us has had the experience of ‘falling in love’ as a teen etc. etc. these are issues specified for specific people, christian teens who probably do ponder is masturbation a sin? is God going to punish me for it?
Do you think yourself fair as an adult, you sound like an adult, to be accusing Ps Kong as a ‘false prophet’ for providing a platform of discussion for young people to openly discuss sexuality issues? What do you think young, impressionable starry-eyes christians are gonna say about your comments? I’m afraid in this case your righteousness crossed over the line, your faith took a beating. I suggest you fast for a month or so like Ps Kong in prayer, pray for wisdom and understanding and then perhaps your faith may not waver again.
If you are still bothered by ‘masturbation’ and still feel it necessary to accuse Ps Kong after a month of fasting and praying, then you are probably better off in a more conservative church. If you want my opinion, I just don’t think you’re ready for a revival. You might be a good christian but you’re faith is not strong enough, you’re causing unneccessary spiritual damage for yourself and others, so I’d rather see you thrive surrounded by things that keep your soul holy for your safety than battle in unchartered terrain, in the real world alongside God’s warriors.
Pastor Kong, i salute you. you’re the bravest guy i know and i love you sooooo much for that. I thank God He has placed such a GREAT pastor in my life. Thank God for you.
haha to sola fide. pea brain.
Pastor, you have really addressed this issue well, you didn’t judge whether it’s right or wrong but you leave the choice to us, which is really good. :)
haha, and some comments are longer than Pst’s post itself. HAHAHAHAHAHA.
Dear Sonia,
Thanks. Kindly please note that I have never accused Kong as “false prophet” in any of my comment above. If you read my first comment, what I really means is “If you, after listening my opinion, still continues to states that some kind of masturbation is not sin, I would consider you as a false teacher, which I don’t want to do so”. Till now I still consider Kong as a great man in God, but certainly, with some kind of imperfection like you and me.
The Bible states it clearly that we should be watchout for false teachers. If I considers Kong as a false teacher I would not spend time writing to him, but just write an essay and post it to all the churchs to alert them. I just want to, as a servant of Christ, give my opinion to all those who are potentially or unwillingly fall into the trap into false teaching, hurting Jesus without konwing it.
Do you know that in these post-modern time many people do not have a stand, like a comment above “you [Kong] didn’t judge whether it’s right or wrong but you leave the choice to us, which is really good”. How can a pastor not to have a firm stand with such issue which is so personal? Forgive me, I am not pointing towards pastor Kong, but just urging him to clarify. As he once said, he is the “pastor of a Church which is influencing the churches all over the Asia”, his article would bring tremandous effects on the youth all over the Asia.
Why I react so “seriously” as some mentiond above? Do you think that my only aim is to persecute Kong? CERTAINLY NOT! What I afraid most is that some sons of daughters of God would have a reson to masturbate, and Kong’s article remove their guilt. This will make them very bold to sin against God without knowing it or considering it as sin. As you once mentioned that 99% of masturbation involves pornography and is sin, but what will be a youth think when he read Kong’s article? As I read most of the comments above, they no longer consider masturbation as a problem, and in their heart they will think that masturbation is normal and all of us should be tolerant with masturbation. This is the trap of post-modernism to the Church. Yes, we should show our mercy to those who masturbates, but we cannot tolarate masturbation., just like Jesus loves the sinner but hates the sin.
The only way for me to show my concern to all those who read Kon’g’s article is by commenting them on his blog. I don not have any secret intention to attack/accuse Kong or City Harvest Church. What I care is the heart and the Kingdom of God. Just because something is difficult does not mean that we should stay in a weak condition and even rationalizing it. I see many of you attack me personally. But what I want is only to alert all of you from being sin against God! If our God is mighty to save us all, if in your mind the Holy Spirit is so powerful, He CAN and WILL remove all masturbation from our lives, including what you mentioned as “nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic “!
O, forgot to signoff!
Love,
Jesse Mak, Sola Fide
My guess is we are harsh on this topic because we mainly view it from a man looking at porn and fantasizing about other woman while masturbating.
Changing the perspective, from another point view of situation, take for example, a husband masturbating through images of his wife who is pregnant and unable to have sex for that period of time?
It is important to note that not all people who masturbate are compulsive or obsessive. (Show me the evidence should you disagree, and not make your own stereotyped remarks)
The health articles that I read shows benefits of masturbation when used in “right situations”, just like what Kong has said.
This is not giving a reason to masturbate, especially when Kong has already stated down the consequences that it could lead to – that could be worrying, and contradicts God’s Word.
I know we got some real spiritual people here…… but let’s not neglect the biological side of our bodies.
(though, not at the expense of God’s Word).
The other article says “Masturbating frequently presents no physical, mental or emotional risk in itself, but masturbation can be used to relieve boredom or stress. In either case, as with any “nervous habit”, it is more helpful to consider the causes of the boredom or of the stress, rather than try to repress the masturbation.”
People will do things for a reason. The reason behind the masturbation is more important than the act itself.
If it helps to enhance a marriage relationship, helps the abused and hurt to find back their sexuality through professional helps and etc…. I don’t see why it is a bad thing in itself.
Like what Kong said, and I do think too, it is worrying only if the results of it contradict God’s word.
i will like to visit CHC one of these day…..very interesting………..
to all who is debating here…
you guys are just wasting time here. please look at a bigger picture that is the kingdom of god. it’s useless to debate over this. it’s just an article.
to yyzz who mention that “M” is used to release boredom or stress, this is not the right way. the right way is to channe/releasel all our thoughts & actions to god. God is the only way…
If all of us cherish & consider how God feels, we will not do it this way!!
XXXX
oh.. not to forget that god is our deliverer.. If you consider God is powerful & almighty. you will be and definitely be delivered…
One more response to Sonia:
I writes this with love and patience. I just want to conclude on what I writes. I believe that you will agree with me if I say an ideal, complete, holy Christian life would be a life with complete walk with Jesus, and without Masturbation. For all those who are unmarried they defer the sexual fulfillment after marriage, and all of those who are married enjoy sex only from his/her spouse. Our target should help the youth to live a complete, ideal life acceptable to God. In fact delaying satisfaction is a kind of self-control, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. In a post-modern world all of us want to satisfy our needs immediately. But in the Kingdom of God, however, self-control is a discipline to build maturity in our life.
This is what I observed and listened. City Harvest Church always ask members to enlarge their visions in areas of prosperity. But I urge CHC to also ask the members to enlarge their visions on complete holiness too. If the position of Sonia represents that of CHC (Use of Masturbation to shield Christians from pornography, prostitution…), I would be quite confused. In fact I have observed every sermon of CHC in past 3 years as a part of conducting my research. I heard pastors ask memebrs to enlarge the vision in prosperity but never heard of enlarging the vision in holiness. This is just my personal suggestion to your Church, without any “criticism”. If the Bible mentioned holiness 10 times more than prosperity, is that appropriate to mentioned 10 times more on holiness? I would not comment on “Prosperity Teaching” of Kong here, or else it would be another debate and I could write a book on this. This is purely my suggestion for the betterment of both CHC and the Kingdom of God.
My last comment on this article would be, instead of preaching or implying “nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic “Masturbation”,
why not I stressed the importance of self-control here. I believe that most of you love hillsong very much. When you sing “Our God is mighty to save”, do you know what you are singing? Our God is mighty, not only mighty enough to help you “earn wealth and prosper” [like all your pastors mentioned in every sermons], but also mighty to help all of you in living a complete, ideal Christian life without Masturbation. Discipline “Self-Control” when facing temptation of Masturbation, friends of CHC.
With regard to “Revivals” you mentioned, I just only want to speak, “NO TRUTH, NO REVIVALS!” If there is no truth, there will be no work of the Holy Spirit. All of you can think of millions of “infrequent/special” examples to support your pastor, but let me tell you at least 99.9999% of Masturbation involves porns. Yes, if you rub your penis without any thoughts semen would come out in a biological sense, but I believe that no one would do this because in a normal case a boy masturbates just to satisfy his personal sexual need without a spouse. I urges all of you who support your pastor view to ask your heart frankly, are there really any Christians in your Church practise such “Holy Masturbation” all the time. Masturbation is like drinking drugs: At the start you may be able to do it without thoughts, but as times goes by you cannot avoid to get deeper excitement, and finally porn is being involved. Although your pastor’s opinion is different from me [I believe Masturbation is a kind of sin at every circumstances], why don’t try to be self-control? A revival cannot come with truth and holiness of children of God!
I don’t need to visit the cell groups of CHC in order to experience how you guys are. I experienced it when I read comments above, and even harsher comments I received in my email box. This is what I warns of all youth in CHC. Instead of follwing Kong irrationally, we should follow Jesus wholeheartedly!
Forgot to signoff again…
Love,
Jesse Mak, Sola Fide
I would love to attend CHC one of these days too! Must have been really something to be able to build a church of close to 30,000, must be something for them to be so grounded, must have been the steadfast leadership of the pastors! There’s much to learn :)
Hmm.. interesting post. I applaud you posting this, Ps Kong, because it is one of those issues that young people (and old people too) think about but dare not ask anyone older than themselves.
However, I am a little disappointed that you did not talk about the spiritual fruit of self-control. Self-control is going to become the ‘forgotten fruit’ of the Holy Spirit because we don’t take time to encourage people, especially young people, to develop it in their lives. If a Christian where to say that they “cannot tahan”, then perhaps they might be labouring under some misconception concerning their faith.
The potential dangers of masturbation as you have outlined in the post are real. I would add that excessive masturbation can lead to impotence.
It’s 5am as I write this so forgive me if I am a bit incoherent. :-) There are other ways to relieve stress and boredom that are as effective.
Why settle for a poor substitute when we can have the real sexual experience in marriage? In marriage, therefore, why should masturbation come into the picture at all? Isn’t that like being given a diamond but settling for nasi lemak?
Just thinking aloud here…
I have observed a worrying trend among some CHC members. Like all young people they look for something or someone to be their icon and start to hero-worship that object or person. In other words, they (at least the ones I know) are blind followers who suck in everything dished out to them. Either they don’t have the time or can’t be bothered to find out the truth for themselves, they seem to take in wholesale everything that the leader says. They are even willing to twist their thinking to protect their hero.
It is one thing to be submissive to leadership but another thing to be gullible.
This is okay if the leader is 100% right all the time. But the danger is, no one is totally perfect.
We should check everything against the word of God.
Two Thumbs Up for Pastor!
I think God give us a brain & mind to store information and to analyse logically. When Logic cannot explain the work of God then we know it is a miracle from God. I look at Ps Kong’s Article as a simple logic statement. Why people debate over exact wording. What is the difference between these 2 statements?
We are selling the Bible for $90,-
and
We are selling the Bible for $100 with 10% off
I would interpret Ps Kong’s statement about Masturbation as following (OR Port) logic:
IF “Masturbation” involve “Pornography” OR “Compulsive Masturbation” OR “Resentment in Spouse” THEN “Need to Worry”
While we are writing comments our Intel chip is applying these logics base on millions of transistors (TTL).
If these 3 inputs are not enough then add more inputs, like
IF “Masturbation” involve “Lustful thinking” OR “Pornography” OR “Compulsive Masturbation” OR “Resentment in Spouse” THEN “Need to Worry”
It is so funny that people mention that 99.9999% “M” involve Porn but they want Ps Kong to re-write the statement that “M” is sin or not sin. You can not change in REAL number into an INTEGER.
Once % is involved we can not use a firm statement like “it is” (100%) or “it is not” (0%). We only can use it in IF THEN ELSE statement as what Ps Kong did.
When We rebate we must rebate base on the same logic otherwise you can never end the discussion.
Logic,
See the fruits by how his wife carries herself and how his wife is submitting to him as a wife. The Bible says if a man can’t manage his own household well, he is not fit to lead the church!
All of you please go back to the Bible and let the Holy Spirit in you lead and guide you into all truths. Kong Hee is but a mere man and is subject to errors in the interpretation of God’s Word. The same Holy Spirit in him is also the same Holy Spirit who dwells in us. Don’t swallow any man’s words blindly but go back to the Word of God to know God’s heart for yourself.
I felt the nature of Pastor Kong’s article is not to stuff his own personal opinion down our throats; rather he is presenting findings of his research on this topic to us and leaving the decision to us as we check our own hearts and align ourselves with the Word and with the Holy Spirit. In this respect, I felt that he is writing to us and regarding us as adults who are very capable of making our own decisions rather than blindly follow.
The topic of masturbation has been a very hush hush topic in churches for the longest time, mainly because to be honest, I believe many leaders are not very sure of what stand to take on it. Some may even be struggling with it. Now that its brought up to the open, I feel that it will bring about 2 things:
1. Relief and a good source of Information for one group of believers by which they can make their decisions and make their stand about this topic. Its undeniable that openess breaks the power of ’sin’, if it is regarded as sin to the believers. Covering up one topic only leaves it and the people wondering in the darkness. For me, I’d rather have openess anytime.
2. Finger-pointing and great anger by another group, mainly because of discomfort. Lets just be honest.
But as Christians living in the 21st century, isn’t it better for us to be well-informed and relevant about controversial topics so that we can be the Josephs, the Daniels, the Shadrachs, Meshachs, and Abed-Negos of our society? Its high time that Christians start to take their place at the cutting edge, be it in terms of wisdom or moral standards in the current society. Knowledge is power. The power to make the right decisions and the ability to answer difficult questions (so, what will you answer when a non-believer asks you?)
Having said all that, Jesus, in His days, when he dealt with controversial, covered-up topics in His days, did He not meet with similar responses from both groups of people?
Its only normal. :)
Guys read this quote from the blog post:
“None of the verses above outrightly name masturbation as a sin.
AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED THE JURY IS STILL OUT.
To me, the act of self-stimulation is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems”
Pastor shared his views and opinions through research. it is HIS opinion. not God’s. so people stop throwing senseless hateful comments because Pastor Kong is not sharing what God thinks but what he thinks simply because….
THE JURY IS STILL OUT
please read the complete blog post before posting any comments. Dont just skim through
Hi Pastor! Thanks for your post, it helped me a lot.
But how about this verse: 2 Tim 2:22 “Run from anything that stimulates youthful lusts, Instead, pursue righteous living, faithfullness, love and peace. Enjoy the companionship of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts.” When masturbating, the feeling is obviously sexual, right? It’s sort of like having sex with yourself, so isn’t it a lustful desire?
By the way, just for those who can’t imagine how masturbation can be performed without “certain images” in their minds, I can. :/
Reply to Mayan:
I agree with you =)
In my opinion, everyone’s just stating what they think that is right that’s all..
And Pastor, I really admire you for touching this sensitive topic.. This has been in my mind for a long time.. I’m from the Hospitality Industry and Your topic on wine and tattoos has englightened me a lot as most people from my industry drinks like nobody’s business and have tattoos..
Thank you so much for these few blog posts that you’ve written.. I feel englighten as i read all these and i personally feel that i’ve grown up more as a growing teenager..
With all regards and support,
Benjamin =)
Firstly:
lets rely on the Holy Spirit to decide for ourselves if masturbation is ok. As Christians, we should rely experiences with God and the word, than to rely on someone’s revelations. Pastor is sharing from his personal capacity, he is not forcing it on you.
please dont be quick to condemn.
Secondly, at the very least:
this post has shed more understanding and i dare say, freed some people from feelings of guilt.
It is more important to focus on our relationship with God and people, than to be caught up on feelings of guilt.
Thirdly:
Kudos to Pastor for being brave to shed light on this topic and share. The debates on this topic can be endless, but thank you for taking the time and effort to address this.
@Sola Fide: Thanks for your love & patience for CHC. Thanks for
your concern for the youth.
I assured you that the youth and adults in CHC have never follow Pst Kong irrationally or blindly. Btw., CHC don’t just preach about “Prosperity Teaching”. CHC preach about loving GOD whole heartedly and loving people fervently. Pls feel free to join our Bible Study on “Song of Solomon”. I may pass you some CDs with regards to teaching of CHC. I have been in CHC for the past 15years since I was a youth. This church is build on the truth of GOD’s word. Revival begin with oneself. If the lives of the people in CHC have not been transformed. There will not be revival. CHC also preach about holiness, self-control, discipline and Faith.
In fact CHC was very traditional…strict in BG relationship. And there was a period of time…legalistic.
I agree with Mien.
“I felt the nature of Pastor Kong’s article is not to stuff his own personal opinion down our throats; rather he is presenting findings of his research on this topic to us and leaving the decision to us as we check our own hearts and align ourselves with the Word and with the Holy Spirit. In this respect, I felt that he is writing to us and regarding us as adults who are very capable of making our own decisions rather than blindly follow.”
Pastor kong did not approve masturbation. He did not preach “nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic” Masturbation. He just quoted what another Pastor said. Pls read through the whole blog. The key and important content is the last 3 main points of this topic. What is your conviction? Pls read the bog carefully!!
@PG
“All of you please go back to the Bible and let the Holy Spirit in you lead and guide you into all truths. Kong Hee is but a mere man and is subject to errors in the interpretation of God’s Word. The same Holy Spirit in him is also the same Holy Spirit who dwells in us. Don’t swallow any man’s words blindly but go back to the Word of God to know God’s heart for yourself.”
Pst Kong is indeed a mere man and he is not perfect. He always encourage us to seek GOD n check with GOD whatever teaching we received. CHC members are not idiot. GOD give us a brain and we have never swallow anything about what Pastor Kong preached. U guys think Pst Kong’s word is imperial edict meh. Haha!!!
Let me share my testimony.
I was a innocent teenager who was ignorance about masturbation because there was no sexuality education. And no internet to do research. I was too lazy to read books too. The first time I heard about masturbation is through this church friend who has compulsive masturbation habit. He was shocked when he heard that I have never do it before. He commented that I am so holy. At the moment, I was thinking…I must be such a rare holy man. I was very proud of my holiness. My pride and arrogance of my holiness turn out to be my downfall. The testing came during NS days. When your believe is being challenge n platoon mates introduced pornography to you. That was when I finally know what is masturbation and pornography. I was hook and bound by pornography. One day, I was sitting in Dr Ed Cole Manhood Meeting. I believe the late Dr Edwin L Cole really touch on these topics which churches have avoided. I was blessed and convicted. That day, I decided to seek the face of GOD after the meeting. I even shared with my cgl that I was in bondage and what are my struggle. I began to hold myself accountable to my Cgl. Praise The LORD! I was delivered through praying n fasting and meditating upon his words. GOD delivered me from pornography & masturbation. At the end of the day, what did GOD say to u and what is your conviction? What do you want to do?
The topic on masturbation is really grey. However, GOD clearly speak about lust,idolatry and fornication in the bible.
The lust of the flesh and the lust of eyes and the pride of life is not of the Father but of the world. 1John1:15,16
Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Do not defile your body. 1cor 6:19.20
Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm ourselves also with the same mind, for he who suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. 1Peter4:1,2
Read also James 1:13,14,15, James 1:21, James 4:7, 2Tim1:22, 1Thess 4:3-7, Col3:5, 2Cor 7:1
GOD spoke to me through His words and I hope these verses will help people who are in bondage. Whatever GOD spoke to me also align with the three point sermon from Pst Kong in this topic.
Hi Pastor Kong, think we need to call for Manhood Conference and touch on topic like sanctification, consecration, self -control once again. :) Since there are more new members who need solid meat. So funny…people r angry that you didn’t touch on the topic of self-control.
Regards
Luc
Hi pastor,
thanks for the post on it! I’ve read “from good man to valiant man” by Dr Allan Meyer, who spoke at Men’s conference just a while ago too. I agree with Allan Meyer when he says that it is not right to masturbate if it causes our focus to be taken away from God, to be “disconnecting from reality to engage with fantasy or objectification”.
i guess at the end of it all, is that whatever we do or say, reflects our relationship with God. anything that leads us away from God is not healthy for our relationship with God. Masturbation in itself is not unhealthy, but if it mixes with addiction and pornography, then it becomes unhealthy.
Thank you pastor, for shedding light on this topic. this topic is actually the first of it’s kind that i’ve managed to find, and i’d like to thank you for clarifying so much about sexuality within just one blog post. :)
okay, now i’ve just finished showering, and after reading all the comments, i’ve found that there’s a verse in the bible that helps us understand more about each other(or so i think.).
i cant remember where, but it sorta just popped up.
“to each is given a measure of faith” (this is what i can remember, or understand from that particular verse.)
so i believe that God has given us the free will to choose, whether or not to pleasure ourselves. and at the same time, we also need to wrestle with our carnal mind, to crucify our flesh, and to seek God for more self control.
furthermore, from what i can understand, since we all have our own levels of faith, we can’t actually impress on others what we feel the kind of faith they should have, because maybe we’ve been walking with God for a long time, but they’ve just started walking with God.
another point i’d like to add, is actually that the Holy Spirit guides us, and convicts us, when God feels that we’re not supposed to do certain things, like in this case, masturbation.
so for us who have had an intimate experience with God, and God telling us: “it’s not right for you.”, then it’s God telling you, “hey, you shouldn’t be doing this.”
and when God speaks, we should hear. :D
and besides, if after masturbating, you feel guilty about it, you can be sure that it’s the devil taunting you, and condemning you, because God gives you a CONVICTION, and God doesn’t give you GUILT, since CONVICTION is SPECIFIC, and GUILT is VAGUE.
but once again, thank you, all the people who have commented thus far, sharing your views and opinions. =)
signing off,
Young-one.
i believe that in reading this article, one must keep an open mind.
Btw, have u noticed that most of the commentators are guys…. :)
Also, after reading thru the blog post again, I felt that Ps. Kong made a deliberate abrupt end to the post.
I would like to think that the reason being – THE JURY IS STILL OUT, and that the author is asking us to make a decision for ourselves.
Secondly, Ps. Kong ends with 3 warnings about the act of Masturbation. Obviously hinting towards the fact, that there is a fear of bondage over the constant misuse of the act.
If the bible is not conclusive about an issue, one should exercise restraint and keep an open mind on a subject.
Being abusive or name calling exhibits a lack of Christ likeness and does not promote any discussion.
Instead we should applaud a prominent Christian leader on having the courage to discuss the issue.
Instead, I have found the openness to discuss the issue beneficial rather than keeping it in the closet. Being dogmatic about issues which are unconclusive does not really help a matter.
We should therefore decide on the issue ourselves, and bear in mind the dangers involved…and instead encourage Ps Kong to keep on writing….
As I have found his posts most helpful, in exploring difficult issues on the Christian walk!
I have read the article a few times and at no time have I found Ps Kong encouraging the act of masturbation.
What Ps Kong is doing is simply shedding some light on a subject that many ministers dare not even approach.
The bible tells us that people perish because of the lack of knowledge.
When we do not know enough of a subject or a topic, we are at the mercy of the devil who will use the “mystery” enshrouding these topics to confuse us.
How will you be able to withstand the wiles of the devil when you do not know what is right or wrong?
SunTzu, in the “Art of War” said, “Know your enemies as yourself, a hundred battles, a hundred victories”
When Satan tempted Jesus, He prevailed because He knew the Scriptures and because He knew what Satan was up to.
So to those of you who are so against the article, let me ask you 2 questions:
1) Are you reading these articles with an open mind?
The Bible teaches us to be open, to test all things.
Yes, we are not to be naturally-minded so that we can be of heavenly use. But are we so heavenly-minded that we are of no earthly use?
2) If you totally disagree on Ps Kong shedding light on such a thorny subject, do you have a better suggestion on how to explain to our children? Or just sweep it under the carpet?
I am a parent and I dread the day I have to tell my sons “Just don’t do it and don’t ask me why!” or to magnify their sense of guilt and shame by saying “you are sinning against God! No bible believing Christian should be doing this! And don’t ask me how to overcome. Just pray!”
So if you have better suggestions on how to broach or deal with this, pray do share with us. If not….
You see, it’s always easier to talk the talk than to walk the walk.
And to Peter Rowe:
Would we want a church filled with Tattooed Drunken Wankers?
Well, I would rather worship at a church where drunkards, people with tattoos, people who masturbate, etc are welcomed and helped to turn around and get a better life than to attend a church where the “Great Commission” is to “Go into all the nations and make disciples ONLY of the teetotalers, people with flawless skin and people who have never masturbated…”
Remember the story of Zaccheus? Remember the story of the adulterous woman? Remember the story of Gandhi?
Well I do.
For I was that drunken wanker who stumbled into church one Sunday morning more than 10 years ago and had my life turned around by a bunch of warm, loving people who accepted me for who I was and helped me turn my life around. I was an alcoholic, chain-smoker, school dropout, hooligan…..now I am a highly qualified, successful person with a happy family.
I am glad this “drunken wanker” stumbled into City Harvest Church.
Thank you Pastor Kong.
Blessings,
JS
hi pst kong, it’s really very bold of you to write an article on such a controversial issue. kudos!
sola fide, hi. i noticed one of your comment and refer you to it now.
“I just want to alert all those who wish to practise ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” to ask himself/herself the following questions before he/she does so:
1) Can such kind of act glorifying God?
2) Does this wish of ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” came from the Holy Spirit, or another Spirit?
3) If Jesus looks at me at my right side when I am masturbating with ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic” characteristics, will I be fear and stop immediately?
4) If my spouse or mother or pastor is at my right side when I am masturbating with ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic” characteristics, will I be fear and stop immediately?
If you answer “no” for the first two questions and “yes” for the last two questions, it is clear that you sin against God if you does not stop your thought on ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” immediately.”
firstly, i’d like to say that the way you ask these questions, may not be relevant. yes, masturbation is not sex. but if i were to change ur questions in relation to sex, then, let me ask you the third and fourth question. will you carry on having sexual intercourse with your partner when Jesus is standing next to you? will you carry on having sexual intercourse with your partner when your parents are next to you, your pastor’s watching you? i think that some things are done in private, you see. God created sex to be a beautiful act, and i must say that He wants His people to enjoy it. God wants people to enjoy the things He has created for us. yes, i understand from your point of view that masturbation is not sex and should not be considered. however, you cant deny the fact that masturbation does cause the body to relieve stress.
i understand your urgency and love for pst kong, but please be nicer with your words. i think the bible does mention that ‘out of the abundance of your heart, the mouth speaks.’ and lets try not to be too quick to judge, yea? thanks.
love,
pssd
People….!
What i think Pastor is saying is that masturbation is wrong! HOw can one masturbate withour lewd thought? Its impossible. How can masturbation not affect the quality of sex in a mariage? Its impossible! Hence in a ” read between the line” manner, Pst kong is saying that masturbation is not right.
Plus, the main point here is NOT TO CONDEMN people who maturbate. Let he who never sin throw the first stone. The priority is not to condemn but to let people give Christ a chance and then after which, let the love of Christ change their lives. You who are asking pastor to just condemn is missing the point.
To Sola Fide,
Hi Sola, May I know what makes you think that CHC pastors does not teach its people to consecrate their loves and pursude complete holiness? And what you meant by, “This is what I warns of all youth in CHC. Instead of follwing Kong irrationally, we should follow Jesus wholeheartedly!”
I knew Jesus at the age of 17 and CHC is the first and only church I have ever attended. In my 7 years of Christian Life, attending all the services, conferences, cell-group, bible studies and even bible school, the Pastors in CHC has never for once comprise the holiness of God. If you based your conclusion on only what you have ‘heard’ for the past 3 years, then can I say that you are being unfair to make such s statement and sugestion to CHC, because you, are not even a regular attendee of all CHC meetings and you only ‘followed’ its teachings for the past 3 years. And I do believe that your so call following of CHC’s teachings is not be even a completed one for you to jump to such a conclusion. As believers, we believe in the full teachings of Jesus Christ and we are taught not to read and interpret verse out of context. Pastor Kong has always taught the people that God has entrusted him to always go back to the bible and to worship God and God alone. In my 7 years of being a Christians, I have benefited from the intensive and extensive of the teaching of God’s words. CHC has always taught me that we do not follow a man (pastors) but God himself. I will always remeber that being a Christian is to be a personal relationship with God and to follow His words wholeheartly. Pastor Kong has always taught us how to build a close and intimate relationship with God and that ‘leaders’ are just mere servants God used to gather His flocks. Thus we do not follow nor worship man but God. And let me share with you, I have never meet a person as humble as Pastor Kong who always upon his lips, give all Glory to God and tell his congegration that the reason he is where he is today is all by the Glory of God and all praises should be given to God and God alone.
I may have left church for quite awhile but CHC teachings have never for one left my life. I may not be able to follow Jesus like what I used to but I know from my heart that I know what it means to live a complete life of being a Christians due to the complete teachings I received in CHC. CHC not only teaches on complete holiness but also what it meant by the fear of the LORD. I am sure you know without the Fear of the Lord, there will not come complete holiness.
Even our Abba Father have different nature and name, for example, God our Father, God our Provider, God, the Holy Judge, the Holy Spirit, our friend…. (Pls forgive me as its been a while since I last touch my bible so I am unable to quote verse like before.) But I know believe that you know and understand that if you want to know God intimately, we cannot just know Him on one aspect but to know Him completely. So, by jumping to conclusion may not be fair to those who have been in CHC for a long time.
For those emails that you may have received from the youth of CHC, I guess, these are started by you making force-full statements by wanting Pastor to declear that Masterbation is a SIN and he should consder re-writing his article or even stop writing as you would consider him as a false teacher if he does change his article? Also those name callings like, “Kong, you lack integrity.”… Let me ask you, what would your family member do or feel if someone openly call you names like these? Personally I love Pastor Kong and has since treated him like my family so how can I be not upset when my family is facing verbal abuse? Maybe you would want to place yourself in the shoes of those youth before passing careless remarks and making unfair conculsion.
Dear Sola Fide..Pastor Kong thought us to have a Thick skin and a thin heart now I know why THANK YOU SOLA FIDE:)
Hi guys…
Just want to clarify something.
With regards to my post on 18 June, it was a question I was asking Pastor for his opinion on some teachings.
Kindly do not suggest or put words into my mouth by misquoting me.
I really think that what pastor wrote was a very, very, well written post. Please do not quote and make it sound as if I disagreed. Pastor was neutral in his standings and so am I.
Go for it pastor! Virtue is innocence tested, and not keeping people innocent. There may be people whom are in denial now and are slamming you because you touched on something sensitive, possibly their secret sin and because they feel ashamed of it, they want you to rewrite your post. Pastor there are many, many, many of us whom feel this is good and we are behind you. Real people like you talk about real issues, relevant to society.
We love you pastor!
To Sola Fide,
Hi Sola, May I know what makes you think that CHC pastors does not teach its people to consecrate their loves and pursude complete holiness? And what you meant by, “This is what I warns of all youth in CHC. Instead of follwing Kong irrationally, we should follow Jesus wholeheartedly!”
I knew Jesus at the age of 17 and CHC is the first and only church I have ever attended. In my 7 years of Christian Life, attending all the services, conferences, cell-group, bible studies and even bible school, the Pastors in CHC has never for once comprise the holiness of God. If you based your conclusion on only what you have ‘heard’ for the past 3 years, then can I say that you are being unfair to make such s statement and sugestion to CHC, because you, are not even a regular attendee of all CHC meetings and you only ‘followed’ its teachings for the past 3 years. And I do believe that your so call following of CHC’s teachings is not be even a completed one for you to jump to such a conclusion. As believers, we believe in the full teachings of Jesus Christ and we are taught not to read and interpret verse out of context. Pastor Kong has always taught the people that God has entrusted him to always go back to the bible and to worship God and God alone. In my 7 years of being a Christians, I have benefited from the intensive and extensive of the teaching of God’s words. CHC has always taught me that we do not follow a man (pastors) but God himself. I will always remeber that being a Christian is to be a personal relationship with God and to follow His words wholeheartly. Pastor Kong has always taught us how to build a close and intimate relationship with God and that ‘leaders’ are just mere servants God used to gather His flocks. Thus we do not follow nor worship man but God. And let me share with you, I have never meet a person as humble as Pastor Kong who always upon his lips, give all Glory to God and tell his congegration that the reason he is where he is today is all by the Glory of God and all praises should be given to God and God alone.
I may have left church for quite awhile but CHC teachings have never for one left my life. I may not be able to follow Jesus like what I used to but I know from my heart that I know what it means to live a complete life of being a Christians due to the complete teachings I received in CHC. CHC not only teaches on complete holiness but also what it meant by the fear of the LORD. I am sure you know without the Fear of the Lord, there will not come complete holiness.
Even our Abba Father have different nature and name, for example, God our Father, God our Provider, God, the Holy Judge, the Holy Spirit, our friend…. (Pls forgive me as its been a while since I last touch my bible so I am unable to quote verse like before.) But I know believe that you know and understand that if you want to know God intimately, we cannot just know Him on one aspect but to know Him completely. So, by jumping to conclusion may not be fair to those who have been in CHC for a long time.
For those emails that you may have received from the youth of CHC, I guess, these are started by you making force-full statements by wanting Pastor to declear that Masterbation is a SIN and he should consder re-writing his article or even stop writing as you would consider him as a false teacher if he does change his article? Also those name callings like, “Kong, you lack integrity.”… Let me ask you, what would your family member do or feel if someone openly call you names like these? Personally I love Pastor Kong and has since treated him like my family so how can I be not upset when my family is facing verbal abuse? Maybe you would want to place yourself in the shoes of those youth before passing careless remarks and making unfair conculsion.
Lastly, just to discuss on the below questions;
I just want to alert all those who wish to practise ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” to ask himself/herself the following questions before he/she does so:
1) Can such kind of act glorifying God?
I should think NO as masterbation is to more of satisfying a Human Need. But if you are masterbating because the nurse needs to collect your sperm for the purpose of ‘pregency’, then maybe I ask you if this act Glorify God? or this act is sinful and should not be done?
May I also ask you, when you are hungry, do you eat? Does this act of eating glorify God? As a mere human, I do not think this act Glorify God as I merely eat to staisfy my human hunger… so should I stop eating since I do not think that eating Glorify God? Sola, what would you say on this?
2) Does this wish of ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” came from the Holy Spirit, or another Spirit? This, I should think is also a NO but I am also unsure becasue when I am hungry, I also don’t hear the Holy Spirit asking me to eat but more so my flesh is calling out that I must eat… So should I stop eating from now on as the hungry spirit within me is not from the Holy Spirit?
3) If Jesus looks at me at my right side when I am masturbating with ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic” characteristics, will I be fear and stop immediately?
This is a cute question and this kind of funny and illogical to me as why would I want to masturbate in front of Jesus? You mean praying and masturbating at the same time? Will you do that or does people do that?
4) If my spouse or mother or pastor is at my right side when I am masturbating with ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic” characteristics, will I be fear and stop immediately?
This question is also illogicial as why would I masturbate in front of my mother or pastor? You mean people really does that, masturbating in front of their parents and pastors? If he or she does so, then this is not a case of masturbation but a mental case. And the question is if the person is my spouse, then the answer is NO as why should I be fearful with my spouse? and I am perfectly fine with him masturbating beside me as sometimes, I am really too tired to satisfy his sexual needs but as a wife, I am mindful of his needs and I see no issue in him masturbating as long as he don’t do it all the times and he don’t enjoy masturbating more than making love with me. :)
@Irene Goh
Hi Irene, you wrote well. I like your comment. Come back to church Come back and have an encounter with GOD. GOD is faithful n His mercy endure forever…He is calling you :) Can I invite you for service?
Regards
Luc
thx pst for posting tis up^^
though its abit hard for me to understand much . by how i know about pst kong , i believe in him. by logic , if his false or preaching wrg things for fame or smth , doesnt God stops him from helping him lift his/our church up to such a big church? juz as i heard frm him in a recent prayer meeting i believe he doesnt preach or speaks by his means but God’s means… all his decisions in church and plans and sermons are by God when He is speaking to him. And for the drinking,tattooing and masturbating? Why not ? Its like what pst kong said , we must build a church without walls , they are the sinners , so they are the main ones to save , if u do not invite them how will they be save? Even drinking , we drink for celebrations , not leading to addictions but for the occasion,doesnt the bible speaks of drinking wine in lots of ways? I rmb-ed a memorable quote frm pst kong during bible study , Jesus didnt chnge the jars of water into ribena but wine. But by regarding about tis topic , i cant rly say mch , though it “may” not be sin. but its still logically wrg , so to be safe its no to masturbation , to prevent us frm any ways of sinning by lust or anything? its to be safe its no to it , no is the safest , yes its obviously saying maybe its not sin but it rly doesnt glorify God if u rly wan to be more like him, he doesnt do it also. Though it may not be sin and nor does it glorifies God , why not do smth tht glorifies him. But aint it weird, when u tink tht masturbation glorifies God? hahaas , tis are juz wad i tink , i juz feel hurt tht thre are ppl tht doesnt rly believe in pst kong, since its my first time here oso.
Lambo(stupid cow>..<)15
lovesW520!!!
Hi Pastor Kong,
Just wanna say that this blog entry was written with a lot of wisdom and it helps me understand the underlying issue better. A lot of times we’ve swept the issue under the carpet, but this blog entry really showed us the that the consequence of what we do is what is really important.
Thanks for taking time to just share this with us.
Love,
Joyce
I wonder what’s your objective of delving into this topic. By bringing up this subject and leaving it open-ended you’ve opened a Pandora’s box. As a spiritual leader, you’re supposed to give guidance, but instead –
After reading your blog, I get the impression that you’re saying – ‘Hey guys, I’ve done some research on masturbation. If you’re already in it, don’t feel guilty, go on and enjoy it. For those who haven’t tried it, it’s not a sin, you’re the odd one out, everyone is doing it. Just watch out for a few things and you’ll be okay.
By not denouncing masturbation, you’re actually encouraging it. Justifying the need to masturbate sounds twisted and warped. It perverts the conscience. You’re slowly removing the moral boundaries that help keep God’s people holy.
It is true we should not be legalistic or judgmental towards non believers. We should love the sinner and be accommodating to his sinful ways. By all means, make the sinner feel welcome and comfortable. But don’t reverse the situation and convert the whole church to become like the sinner and do the very things he’s doing. That’s helping the devil to promote lawlessness.
I pray that you’ll come to your senses and come back to bible based doctrines.
I still have great respect for you and believe God will continue to use you mightily.
This was a refreshing blog post. Even though most of what you said was self-evident for those that has seriously and without prejudice penetrated this topic (theologically as well as psychologically), I am still very surpriced that you dared to write it.
If someone had been preaching this that you said, on a Word of Life Uppsala Youth conferance, that person would have been expelled. At least a few years ago. And since you call Mr. Ulf Ekman your mentor, it really is a bit confusing to me that this differance in opinion (?) is allowed to exist between you. Or has the Word of Life leaders changed their view also, from the time I was a teenager at Word of Life? I ask since there is usually only one opinion allowed at a time on topics such as this one, at Word of Life (Livets Ord).
John Nilsson,
Nephew of Ulf Ekman and boyfriend to Word of Life member
Not everyone who reads this blog can be discerning and think of a Pastor’s words as a mere guideline. Among those who read your blog Pastor Kong, may be new Christians who take your thoughts word for word. To all the commenters who insisted this post was to be treated as a guideline, for a person of such influence, many people might believe this entry on the basis of trust, without checking against the bible. A lot of facts and statistics have been stated here, it’s a bold move to talk about this topic, but ultimately I ask myself, will this glorify God? Before jumping on the bandwagon and agreeing with whatever Pastor Kong said, think about it yourself. It’s an interesting piece, sounds reasonable enough, but is it even possible to masturbate without lust? I wonder how many people would go back into a habit they managed to kick after reading this. Condemnation never comes from God. If your actions are wrong, they are wrong. By condoning masturbation so people can practice it without condemnation, isn’t it a way of cheapening God’s sacrifice for us? Aren’t we denying the power of the Cross to break sin, even non-beneficial habits in our lives? I’m in no way condemning Pastor Kong or anyone here, but hopefully this might trigger some thoughts.
Pssd:
My attempt to answer your questions:
1. When I take a dump, I usually do not contemplate if that gloryfies God. Do you? Seriously! A lot of things we do that we do not want to do in public neither gloryfies nor shames God. Masturbation is a bodily function. As a matter of fact, it has been five times scientifically proven that the risc of getting prostate cancer tripples for men whom does not get five orgasms/week. Not all are married, and not all married men gets to have sex that often. I think this health argument is not a theological one, but a pointer. Since there are no (what so ever) theological pointers that tells us that masturbation would be a sin.
2) Masturbation is an effect of a bodily function that God has created. Just because it has something to do with ones sexuality it does not have to be woken by some spirit. It is however not against the spirit of the Lord, if that is your underlying question.
3) No. I don´t want to become too personal but – it is fully possible to worship Jesus – masturbate – worship Jesus again. If leagalistic an self righteous fake bad conscience does not hinder it.
4) Spouse – no problem. But pastor? Mother? Hmmm….are you serious? Would you, when married, have sex with your spouse with your pastor or mother at the bed side? I wouldn´t, the very thought sickens me. Natural boundaries prohibits one from doing private things in the presence of those whom has nothing to do with the act. Even suggesting this, as you do, is perverse.
//John Nilsson
Hi Pastor Kong,
Thank you for bringing up this topic. I’m sure people are enlightened and blessed by this blog. Well-presented and very meaningful! Indeed, this is a very delicate topic and yet you presented the most acceptable resources.
Thanks again,
Rhoel
Pastor it is really a ice breaking blog. Really enlightened everyone of us here!
I think we are educated people and doesnt need to say much, i am sure that you people are mature enough to know what is the right thing to do and what we should not do.
No point shooting arrow here where in the end of the day, you are the one who will be standing in front of god and he will be the judge =)
GBU
@speaking the truth in love
hi there,
“I wonder what’s your objective of delving into this topic. By bringing up this subject and leaving it open-ended you’ve opened a Pandora’s box. As a spiritual leader, you’re supposed to give guidance, but instead –” I guess different people who read this blog will have different respondes but I do believe the ultimate aim is to seek God more in your personal life.
Frankly speaking, from a backslidder point of view, this blog has sparked interesting conversation between me and my hubby and have cause me to once again think and ponder on the WOG. Even my hubby is surprise as I actually took out my bible and make reference to it, as he has not seen me touching my bible for so long ever since we got married. So may I then ask you, “If a open ended blog like this cause you to seek God more and want to find out what is in His Heart, is Pastor then helping satan to build his kingdom?”
I am sure, when you first got saved and start attending church, there will always be spiritual leaders to help and guide you and tell you about what God is saying. But the ultimate journey which I believe is in the heart of all spiriutal leaders is to help their memebers to know God and hear God’s voice on their own – To teach the members how to seek God on their own and have a personal walk with God.
I remembered at when I first know Jesus, all my CG members keep sharing with me their experience with God and how they can hear God’s voice. And my leader specifically told me that I should not just hear God’s words through him but to diligently seek Him and hear His voice by myself. And I seek Him diligently and I heard the Voice of God in my heart. That moment was one of the greatest and happiness moment is my life of Christianity. To hear God’s voice on my own. So, I am sure, many of us who has read this blog, espcially Christian who have made your point so strongly, didnt you actually pray more and study the Word of God more intensely? So isn’t this good? Isn’t Christianity at the end of the day, a personal walk with God.
For those young Christians who you are worried that will be misleading, I am sure they will not just jump to conclusion on just one blog and they will then bring up this topic with their Christian friends who God will bring forth spiritual leaders to pray with them and show them the WOG. And come to think of it; this will be the time where all YOU spiritual giants out there can spill forth your knowledge and wisdom on the WOG, isn’t this a good opportunity to share about Jesus with all of us sinners out here?
Concluding, there is always 2 sides to a coin; Try looking at it another way, and maybe you can find a way to Glorify God using this blog. Whatever the devil meant it for bad, God can use it and turn it around His Glory. That why He is God Almighty, Right? =)
So stop being so personal and keep on seeking for a conclusion on this blog. I am sure when Pastor Kong wrote this blog, he is not wanting for people to debate who is right or who is wrong… His heart is always for God’s people to be stronger to build their life as a Christian on the true connerstone – Jesus Christ. ;)
@Luc,
Thanks for the invite.. Actually I still have alot friends there and many of my ex-CGmembers are still attending CHC.. =)
To all out there,
This is a good example of how we can use this article as a tool to reach out. I am sure for us, sinners or non-believers out there, if they come across this article, it will spark an interest or conversation and if they would like to find out more, its a good chance to invite them to your church. I am sure this is better than those who will never even step into a church for their whole life. And for those of you who started praying more and seeking out the Heart of God more due to this blog, then good for you as I don’t see a better end result than this. =) Cheerios!
To Theodore
i find the way you talk is very rude and very arrogant Who are you to judge ppl are you God ?? don’t try to act to be God when u are not i’m not saying that u are a bad person but from what i know Pastor Kong is a very Humble pastor and he ain’t of what u speak of and who are you to tell Pastor Kong to step down as a pastor i think u are very immature time for You To GROW UP and i can see you have something against CHC and sola fide u soumd like a very immature christian in the way you talk u seem to be against pastor kong from what i see Pastor Kong isn’t as what u say as such as you claim
Hi Pastor Kong
Thanks for this topic that u have raised which i think no one has done it I personally Thank God For a Humble and Great senior pastor you are to City Harvest Church .. Each Time u Share the Word of God with us it is such a blessing and mind blowing type of sermons you come out with .Every new topic you come out with seems to be interesting and Pastor Kong plz dun let the not so nice comments abt ppl affect you okays will keep ya in prayer God Bless You and Your family
Hi Pastor Kong
Thanks for this topic that u have raised which i think no one has done it I personally Thank God For a Humble and Great senior pastor you are to City Harvest Church .. Each Time u Share the Word of God with us it is such a blessing and mind blowing type of sermons you come out with .Every new topic you come out with seems to be interesting and Pastor Kong plz dun let the not s nice comments from ppl affect you okays will keep ya in prayer God Bless You and Your family
(correction from previous comments)
Eph.4:17-20
“This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind;
having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart;
who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to licentiousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness”. But you have not so learned Christ”
Licentiousness — means “no restraint from purity”.
Impurity — “weakness of the flesh”.
Thanks Ps Kong, this is a fantastic topic! You really brought a lot of light into this controversial topic! I’m truly blessed!
For those who are seeking Ps Kong to give the EXACT answer if masturbation is right or wrong, well…God never forces us to make a decision, but what we decide will determine our outcome… Since the bible doesn’t CLEARLY SAY if it’s right or wrong, why are you so adamant in making Ps Kong state it? I know Ps Kong will never adds on his own preferences/feelings/opinions to the Bible because he loves the Word of God so much and he takes it in TOTALITY! Ps Kong’s answer to this ever-debating topic is the CLEAREST answer I’ve gotten after many years working with youths.. at the end, it’s not the action, but the content of your heart that matters…
Judge one by its fruits… and I’ve seen the fruits of Ps Kong’s life over and over again, how about you? how many lives have you touched, discipled and released to impact the world for God’s glory?
WOW!!
Thanks Pastor for addressing this.
I believe many Christian friends are clueless about where to stand on this issue.
Thanks for educating us!!
Thanks a lot Pastor Kong or diving deep and giving us the facts, the figures and biblical truth on this topic. Once again you show us that we should live by the every Word of God, nothing more, nothing less. We must never add our own righteousness into bible truth. We must always read under the line and the whole application of the verse to understand the intended truth.
The bible has never mentioned that masturbation is a sin. This is the truth and it is that simple. We should not complicate the truth by our own self-righteousness. The bible is very clear in spelling out sinful thoughts and acts. Why should we classify masturbation as sin when the bible never say so. Are we trying to be self-righteous than God by doing so?
The act of masturbation is not a sin if the bible does not say so. It is the motives and acts of consequences of the one performing the act of masturbation that is the issue here. Jesus says if one looks at a women lustfully, he commits adultary. Looking is not the sin here, lustful thoughts (motive) and adultary (acts of consequences) are.
First is our motive to masturbate. If your motive is rooted from sin then you shouldn’t masturbate. As a single, if you need to think lustful and dirty thoughts when you masturbate, then you shouldn’t masturbate. It is a sin when you have lustful thoughts of others outside of the marriage. However if you think lustful thoughts of your wife when you masturbate, it is not a sin because it’s within your union of marriage, it is not adultary. Adultary is commited with others outside a marriage. How can one commit adultary with his wife/husband? In fact, sexual stimulation is a must and necessity in the union of marriage when a married couple has sex and masturbation is usually part of the act! However when a married self-masturbate, how can he/she be sure that he/she is doing it with a clear and pure thought of the spouse in mind? We got to be very careful with our motives/thoughts in masturbation.
The acts of consequences are straight forward. If masturbation cause you to sin – pornography, addiction that leads to perversion, and “hurting” of spouse and marriage, then we shouldn’t masturbate. If masturbation opens the door for the Devil to tempt you into sinning (most likely because man alone has no strength), then we shouldn’t masturbate. The acts of consequences are the sin but not the act of masturbation (cos bible never say it is).
Our flesh is not sin because it’s from God. The act of feeding our flesh is not sin because this is the will of God. If you hungry you eat, but if you eat out of greed and end up in gluttonly then it’s a sin. God is concern with our motives and acts of consequences that lead to sin. The issue is we are weak in our flesh. Whenever we feed our flesh, we are vulnerable to the Devil’s attack. Our motives and acts of consequences are very often seriously corrupted and perverted by the Devil. The same goes with masturbation. Unfortunately when we masturbate, 100% of us cannot guarantee our motives and acts of consequences are pure and holy for God, are not and will not be corrupted and perverted by the Devil. This should be the reason why we should not masturbation.
To those who are offended by this article. I think Pastor Kong has done a great job in showing us the truth. The truth sets us free. The problem is not the truth. The problem is can we see and accept the truth as it is even if it is against our tradition, our background, our past teaching, years of been taught that masturbation is a sin. Even if our view is not exactly right would we correct it to make it accurately right? The bible cannot be wrong so if Pastor agrees with the bible then what wrong is he?
Pastor Kong has provided us factual truth and his view of concerns for sin that may derive from masturbation. I do not see any ground to prosecute Pastor Kong other than your self-righteousness, tradition, background and past teaching. I pray that new revelation will set you free and make you stronger in faith.
man, some of you guys are really free… but what kinda impact did you make by debating this topic, other than stumbling the young christians who read this?
YOU ARE DOOMED FOR HELL FIRE IF YOU THINK MASTURBATION IS OK. TELL ME HOW CAN YOU NOT THINK OF LUST WHEN YOU PERFORM THE ACT
IF YOU DELETE MY MESSAGE, YOU ARE JUDGED BY GOD TOO
John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
All those who condemned this post, he or she among you that has not indulged in masturbation make the next comment.
Pastor Kong Hee has just laid the facts on the table and in-fact he has narrowed it down to 3 big no’s of masturbation which probably covers many and majority of the people who maybe in the grip of this act.
I tell you what, let’s make an endless list of all the things that Christians are not supposed to indulge in and make it impossible for anyone to make the cut. Let’s make Christianity a way of life for the self proclaimed righteous and bring in exclusivity. Here is a man who works tirelessly to reach the lost in the places that you will never ever have the guts to venture into and then you want to condemn him to hell. All you guys care is about is your reputations and the image of your so called faith but when it comes to dirtying your hands and cleaning the world of it’s mess you prefer to sit back in your comfort zones and fail to engage the world. If you can’t do the job that Christ has assigned you don’t throw stones at someone who has obeyed his calling. The problem with you guys are you just know scripture but you don’t know the heart of Jesus.
Daniel: If you can’t, I cannot decide for you what you should do. I can only answer for myself. Most adults can masturbate without thinking about sex. But then there is also the question: is it a sin to think about sex before you are married?
I would say no. What bible verse would you quote to correct me? It IS a sin to think lustfully about a woman or man that is allready married, at least that is what Jesus says. One can also argue that it is a sin to think lustfully about any person before you are married, but that has no direct bible support – and I really would like to find a person whom can successfully argue that falling in love has nothing to do with sexual feelings (feelings are thoughts, at least as the bible is concerned). Such arguing would lead to the conclution that sin has made it impossible to fall in love before marriage without automatically sinning (in your heart).
Thinking about sex does not have to be specifically about a person.
Since about 40% of all men does not get “nocturnal emissions” (orgasm in the sleep) as a release & replunish mechanism, not masturbating leads to physical pain that can be quite severe. It depends on how the blood vessals around the genitals are responding to the sexual physical tention (that is natural). But for the other 60%, nocturnal emissions happen as a result of a sexual dream (even if most don’t remember them). Are those dreams, that has the sole purpose of releaving and replunishing, a sin? If so, what is the differance between them and masturbation (that hasn’t got to involve sexual thoughts)?
I think many of those who answer this blog post are missing the point of beeing a born again christian.
We are saved by grace alone which is received by faith alone. A-l-o-n-e.
Holiness, or sanctification, are only a result of the Spirits work in us. Not the other way around! When James speaks about the faith beeing proven by actions (epistle of James) he does not say that you can do christian deeds to prove that your faith is alive, even if that is a common missinterpretation by those whom hasn’t yet grasped the meaning of grace.
What James is saying is that IF your faith is true, THEN your actions will prove it (by natural result, not by your own added power).
Therefore we are NOT called to first and foremost eradicate sins in our lives. We are called to draw closer to Jesus Christ and through the Spirit gain his likeness. In this closeness to Jesus the very appetite for sin will slowly deminish. That is how sin is defeated – NOT by chasing after sins like don Quijote chased wind mills.
It does not help anyone to by his own power, with the help of christian education and therefore knowledge of the Law, try to smuther the visible acts of sertain sins.
Well, it may help a little when living in a civilized society and it will help to not lose all friends – but in the eyes of God such actions are in vain. They are in vain since they cannot be performed parallell to seeking the intimacy with Christ that truly makes us feel disgust towards all sin.
Dear all,
Let me state again the direction thta Bible gives, and anyone could be guided by the Holy
Spirit in this way when he/she read the letter of Paul:
1) For those who are unmarried, defer sexual satisfaction after marriage. When temptation
comes, pray to Jesus to help. Your fruit of self-control would grow in the Holy Spirit and
this build your spiritual maturity
2) For those who are married, restrict sexual fulfillment to intercourse with his/her
spouse only
Instead of praying to the Holy Spirit yo help us to masturbates without thought, we should
pray to Him to help us to practise the above two points without masturbation.
My answer is that simple! Any consideration from health/effect it bring etc comes from
secular humanism but not from the heart of God.
Love,
Jesse Mak, Sola Fide
Hi Guys,
Bottomline is;
What’s the motive of your heart?
If it resides in lust; ie: porn, fantasies, etc.; don’t do it.
If you feel that it is just wrong, just don’t do it.
Follow your heart and your value.
This topic is a commentary. It can either be good or bad based on what you perceived.
What I perceive is that this topic has a very balanced view.
Thanks
Ayam
This blog is very miss leading… and I’m am very sadden about it…
blogs are created for a purpose and is a great tool to let the people of the world (or anyone who has internet connection) know what you think and what is your stand on some issues. This clearly is not one of them… this blog is like a consolidation of threads I would see if I searched for the keywords “Christians Stand on Masturbation” in Google.
As a pastor it is very wreckless to open up a topic and not have a conclusion… most if not all of Paul letters to his churches have a conclusion because if you dont have a conclusion it would divide the church as what you are seeing now…
if there is something that causes the churches to have separated opinions and therefore divided at heart. then this clearly is not a work of God… and if it is not a work of God then more or less this is the work of the devil (the great divider) sorry to be very frank.
Pastor Kong, I hope you can follow up this thread with a conclusion so topic would be clearer to everyone else…
James 3:1
Taming the Tongue
1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
Just want to correct my mistake in my earlier thread:
Wrong: “In fact, sexual stimulation is a must and necessity in the union of marriage when a married couple has sex and masturbation is usually part of the act!”
Correction:
Sexual stimulation (lust) is a must and neccessary act in sex, but in marrital sex, lust for our spouse wouldn’t be sin. Masturbation is done with self onto self. It is not part of sex. It should not and must not replace sex with our spouse. The lust involved in masturbation is the concern for sin so we shouldn’t do it. I rest my case.
Sorry for any misleading done.
Hi Bor reng,
Pastor Kong has clearly expressed his personal opinion in his writting.
Quote:
“What is my personal opinion regarding masturbation? Theologically, the Scripture is relatively silent about it although its practice stretches back to biblical times. None of the verses above outrightly name masturbation as a sin. As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out. To me, the act of self-stimulation is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems”
I’m glad he did not jump to any conclusion on this topic because the bible doesn’t. In fact if Pastor did, then I would be concern it is from man and not the Word of God. I’m so proud of Pastor. Pastor Kong is ever so concern of our motives/thoughts/heart. and its consequences. The churches have debated over this for ages, we can debate all we want here. but God sees our heart in all our acts.
Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander
I dawn to me that the churches could not come to united conclusion on this topic for ages because the bible never give any conclusion and everyone thinks they are right. This should not stop us from discussing the topic openly in love and unity as a church. I’m so proud of Pastor Kong.
Conclusion I draw from Pastor Kong – 1) We should not try to be greater than God’s Word. 2) We must always guard our heart in whatever we do. I’m sure the church members would understand and appreciate Pastor’s heart and grow stronger in unity. From this, my love for this church and Pastor has grown stronger.
Don’t waste time readng his blog.. he’s a menpleaser!
Just adding an illustration..
how does a puppy dog win over a big ferocious lion?
just feed the puppy, don’t feed the lion..
Make sure that we eat the bread of life(Jesus),God’s Word and drink, praying, draw near & abide in Christ.. everyday, then we can grow and be stronger…just like our physical body…imagine if we don’t eat or drink for one week…our spiritual life is already dying..
..Go ps. Kong !
I agree with Pastor Kong when he mentioned that the Bible is silent about this issue and that the Bible didn’t explicitly say masturbation is a sin. Thus, we should not condemn or judge people who has done it.
However I think whatever we do should glorify God and I felt that masturbation is rather self-gratifying.
Based on some health articles I came across mentioned that some chemicals are released in our brain and body to ‘create those urges’. these chemicals ‘remember’ how one respond to these urges’ and will release periodically to ‘create the next high’. these chemicals have the abilities to entice and draw people to achieve the next high through watching porn, women watching, etc. a vicious cycle which becomes an addiction.
I don’t know how true these researches are, but i guess many men would agree somehow the urges increase each time. My point is masturbation is addictive in nature and we should not be mastered by it.
I refer to the verses (Lev 15, Deut. 23:9-11) mentioned by Pastor Kong. According these verses, any man who has an emission of semen or any form of discharge is consider unclean in the Old Testament and a purification is observed. One might even die in their uncleanness for defiling the tabernacle.
How do we relate this instruction from God in our modern context? We ought to live a holy and pure life; for God is holy and pure.
Dear All,
I read with great interest on this controversial topic that Ps Kong has brought up, as well as the many comments that had been given. Firstly, I do want to applaud Ps Kong for his courage to dare to bring out such a topic, especially on the amount of research he had put into the above article. As a theological student currently pursing my Masters Degree, I know that involved much effort and thoughts put into the above matter.
Secondly I would like to say that from the amount of comments that are generated from the above topic, it has shown that the church at large had not given appropriate attention to the areas of sexuality and sexual struggles among Christians. Sad to say that sex education is a much neglected part of our Christian lifestyle, though many of us understood that sexuality is a part of our human make up. I personally feel that the neglect is due to the ignorance (or avoidance) of God’s people, as well as many wrong traditions that has been passed down throughout the church history. One should remember that the Book of the Song of Songs in the Old Testament actually describes the intimate relationship between a man and a woman, which implies God is not unaware of this area of needs in our human life.
From I have gathered from Ps Kong’s points of view, I do not feel that he is advocating that masturbation is right. Rather he is stating a reality that many people, whether Christians or non-Christians, are facing. One of the largest studies ever conducted on human sexual behaviour was by the Kinsey Institute over 50 years ago. The study was remarkable for its time since it remains perhaps the largest study on sexual behaviour and made the claim that 92% of males reported having masturbated as opposed to 62% of females. We have to realize 50 years ago this topic was even a greater taboo. Someone even joking said that 99% of all male have masturbated at least once before, and the other 1% is lying. What I am trying to say is this is a very real issue, and therefore a balanced understanding on this topic is important.
The Bible talks about “the good, the acceptable and the perfect will of God” in Romans 12:2. I personally feel that masturbation is definitely not the “perfect” will of God, but that does not mean that it is a sin, as it is not explicitly mentioned in the Scriptures. Most of us are very clear that lying is a sin, yet to many average Christians, lying could be consider as an acceptable situational issue, depending on the culture or even work environment. What I am trying to say is that some of us are more upset by the topic of masturbation than by the topic of lying, which the latter is clearly described as a sin in the Bible. This inappropriate expression shows that our present judgment or conclusion could be flawed. Therefore, I want to encourage all readers to maintain an open attitude towards this topic, and allow the peace of God to guide your heart, as encouraged by Ps Kong in his conclusion.
Some concluded that masturbation is a sin, based on Mt 5 that if we lust against a woman, we have committed spiritual adultery, since they claimed that masturbation involved lust. However, such a conclusion is not advisable, as in the same chapter, Jesus talked about not being angry or having hatred, keeping your promises, not divorcing your wife, doing good to your enemies, and turning the other cheek.
It is not the right exegesis to just interpret one verse and come to an absolute conclusion. The truth is that Scripture is not conclusive on this topic on masturbation. Does masturbation necessary involved lust? Though it may be common, but I do not necessary think that to be so as many sexual therapists encouraged masturbation in the enhancement of a healthy sex life between the husband and wife.
I will probably not encourage anyone to practice masturbation, yet I will certainly prefer someone who has sexual struggles to find relief in masturbation rather than committing fornication or visiting a prostitute, or worst still, rape someone. I would think that the long term solution is to rely on the grace of the Lord Jesus to exercise self-control, at the same time, be accountable to our spiritual leaders if we do have sexual struggles in our lives.
Just my two cents worth of thoughts … hope you are blessed!
Kim
God is never a ‘christian ‘ God…….its a trap n distortion from the devil to totally reduced the real beauty of God so that people who had a decent level of wisdom of what beauty is all about will never want to come close to God or become a christian…….God is like a hollywood superstar n one million times more cool than that , God is sexual ,sensual n sensational n He make all of us so too, just that people abuse many great things that is from God,that does not mean those great things should be throw away n regards as evil or sinful……..many people abuse their authority n power in church too ,but that does not means authority n power is from the devil………..God is ultimate beauty n the beauty n glamour n talent of hollywood n tibet soulfulness n all the greatness of beauty you can find in the world ultimately comes from God , because we are all his creation ,christian or non christian……we all already have God inside of our heart n soul…….all mankind knows what love ,beauty,greatness,wisdom n good character is all about,because we r all from Him n have His nature in all of us too. The truth is God understand what we r going through ,we all have sexual needs n it is a beautiful thing n sometimes it is not easy to find or meet the right soulmate to make love to n if we do have a one night stand or something ,God will never judge or condemn us ,of course its best we can have a love one to make love to but sometimes love dont come easy to many people,……..God want n love us to get connect w/ humans too…..in every beautiful ways possible, but sleeping around with too many people n too casually is a degrading thing to do to a human soul, i think every humans knows that n it will also bring you high risk of getting aids or something…….Anyway, God never judge or condemn ,He totally understand our situation ,He just wish that we can live through life more wisely n able to get love n help both from Him n also those right humans who is around us………cheers
I’m 1000% agree with you, Ps. Kong….
Please speak & write louder than before, we need a pure & holy generation in the end times, as the bride of Christ.
The truth is that the bible is also written by man who still always have limited wisdom ……yes,it is said to be holy spirit inspired ,but it is still said through the mouth of a human being n not God’s mouth direct………God is a never changing God , Yes , in terms of His love n integrity for righteousness ……. But God can still alter n change some rules n regulations as long as it does not honour evilness n hatred ……sometimes,we can never find a perfect solution to things n it will sure have its plus n minus ……..its a fallen world down here n humans are still very vulnerable n should be very forgiveable. Old testament n new testament,is still the same God ,but when Jesus came down on earth ,He do change some rules n regulations,Ya ?! God can still be flexible ,the world evolves n human changes n not even God Himself can control it,cause we r given the power of free choice,to think n feel n choose whatever we want ……..The bible is written 2000 years ago n now God want to take care of us n want our life to be easier as the times r getting more n more evil,everyone’s life is also getting harder,will God still be so rigid n merciless to want us to fight unnecessary things when we already have thousands n one things to fight n stress n worry about ! Hello……?!
Pastor, you’re awesome to dare to venture into this topic. my respect for you is rising every day :)
Dear Pastor,
I must really salute and respect you for opening up such a controversial topic. I must admit this is a topic a lot of guys especially do not exactly dare to face and talk about it. I think with your balanced view point, it does help to liberate a lot of people.
for me it does, especially when i used to condemn myself coz i struggle with this during my high sch days. At least this post does give guys some hope that they are not alone, and can overcome the habit with self control, of course with the help of the holy spirit.
Anyway, I feel that Pastor’s still the same. the only difference is that he has grown spiritually stronger and absolutely more daring in so many ways (positively, of course).
P. Kong’s only clearing the doubts of many Christians on the issue of masturbation which I personally believe that many traditional and conservative churches have tried their utmost best to keep this issue to the lowest profile possible.
BUT, keeping the issue in the silent mode over and over again will NEVER solve the problem. On the contrary, it will only pose as a further problem and implications could be created in so many ways, both imaginable and unimaginable.
There will always be the “first”. the first person to ever lay foot on the moon, the first person to fly an airplane etc etc… President Obama was the first black President in the history of the United States. and as for P. Kong, I feel that he is the first pastor with unlimited amount of audacity to venture into this controversial topic and people should not judge him on the surface but rather stand in his shoes and feel what he is thinking as he is writing this topic on his blog.
Surely, Pastor Kong’s intention is to solely clear a controversial issue which some people are dying to know but are afraid to voice out and not create a “war” amongst fellow believers in Christ.
The bottom line is, I will always stand at the place wherever Pastor will be standing :)
to Sola Fide:
hey. don’t be so eager to criticize our church yea? harsh words were indeed used but I don’t think that there’s anybody who’s all out to really hurt each other. all of us wants to best solution possible for this issue is for the glory of God right?
anyway, church does NOT equate to perfection. every church would definitely has got its own flaws and weaknesses. that’s why we go to church. if all churches are oh-so-perfect-and-holy, Jesus would have died in vain my dear :)
peace out.
* all of us would want to have the best solution possible for this issue for the glory of God right?
my apologies. typo error :)
Good thoughts and opinions Rev ! Truly blessed by your sharing and also previous ones.
Have been a frequent reader in your blog ! =)
God bless !
Thanks, Pastor Kong.
I wont love God more than today unless you preach the Word of all your teaching and all the encouragement. I believe in God, I trust in Him, but sometimes it’s difficult since I cant see Him. However, I can see His reflection through you & examples in your life.
We the whole church love you so much! The Song of Solomon was just fascinating & stunning! Just amazing!
God bless you richly!
Well.. for those who really embrace and gladly receive this teaching and said wow and good, I believe it is a great comfort to you because you wont feel bad doing it anymore.
Please continue to practice it and masturbate and feel good about it. If you are truely born again, you will know what is pleasing to God, or what is right and what is wrong.
In the last days, many false teaching will come forth, and I am shocked it come from someone who I use to think is a role model or somewhat respectable. Worst stiil, I cannot comprehend how people can embrace such teaching and get deceived by it. It is just like 1 + 1 = 3, and you can say it is correct!
And please do not drag other minister into the erroneous teaching when they are talking within the marriage context.
Lastly, you are a guy, you should know the drive or reason why people masturbate is because of lust.
to LeeWeeLee
Well, I guess you do not read your bible or maybe you are serving the wrong God. You make God sound so limited and He is being trapped by man’s action.
- God’s law will never be changed and it will always remain. So He will never compromise and change His law and stands, no matter how perilous days ahead are.
- Jesus did not come down to change the rules and regulations, in fact He came to fulfill the law. Anyway, Christian is not about the DOs and the DON’Ts. Is all about living for Jesus.
- You also said that the world is changing, everything evolves, man have the freedom of choice and it is not within’s God’s control? Which God do you serve?
All I know and read in my bible is that the God I serve is All Powerful, He is the One who created this World and He is sovereign, everything is within His control.
Please do not make God sound so small and weak. The world revolve around God, not man.
I concluded that your points are just very ‘humanism’.
And please dont defame Our God…
Wad’s up, brother Kong,
I support you!!!
I’m saying i support you. Can you please stop deleting my post? Thanks dude!
Paul in Titus makes an acute observation, “To the pure, all things are pure. But to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient, and worthless for any good deed.” (Titus 1:15-16)
I stand amazed and appalled at the furore generated by Dr Kong Hee’s commentary on masturbation.
Accusations, almost near slanders, were flung at Kong, based nothing more than on ridiculously naive and erroneous assumptions.
Reading Titus 1;15-16, I cannot help but think that this is perhaps more revealing of what is within the heart of the commentators than could be extrapolated from Kong’s writings themselves.
A careful reading of Kong’s writing will expose the slanderers in their true form.
Take for instance, the unfounded accusations made by Sola Fide aka Jesse Mak, Bo rang and disgusted.
“Kong, you only cares on what human thinks but not what God things.” [Sola Fide]
On what is this audacious statement premised upon, Sola Fide?
A malicious statement in this manner is character assassination in its crudest form.
You should be mindful of such accusations.
“Kong, you lack integrity. Just because you practise ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” does not make it less sinful. “ [Sola Fide]
This opens a potentially serious case of libel, Sola Fide.
From where did you infer that Kong practises ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation”?
At nowhere in Kong’s writings was it implied that he practises what you blatantly accuses him of.
And the argument regarding the lack of integrity is simply non-sequitur.
“If it is a sin, no matter in what level it practised, it is sin against God! If it is not a sin, no matter how deep it is practised, it still not a sin.” [Sola Fide]
This is obvious. Why make this statement?
The issue of contention here is not the level of practice, Sola Fide.
It is your arrogant assumption that what the Scriptures have not outwardly condoned as sin, you have legalistically labelled sin.
Are you more holy than God?
As Kong surmises, “the jury is still out”.
This matter has been debated by theologians, pastors, and Christian counsellors for ages.
Kong has accurately and fairly reflected both perspectives in his writing.
He has also given his personal position in a reasonable and Scriptural conclusion. “Finally, as with most things that are not explicitly encouraged or prohibited in the Bible, one should only do it if it doesn’t go against the inner peace of God in his or her heart (Col. 3:15).” [Kong Hee]
Why are you so up in arms about that?
“Yes, I falls into masturbation occationally, but I admit clearly to God and repent everytime I sin.” [Sola Fide]
I see.
“But I would not try to rationalize my acts by changing some absolute truth into relative theory!” [Sola Fide]
Do you use pornography when you masturbate? If so, then clearly according to Kong’s writings, it is sin.
There is no question about that and nobody is trying to rationalize your act, Sola Fide.
“Instead of praying to the Holy Spirit yo help us to masturbates without thought, we should pray to Him to help us to practise the above two points without masturbation.” [Sola Fide, Jesse Mak]
Wow. Where did that come from?
”praying to the Holy Spirit yo help us to masturbates without thought”???
On nowhere else on this page, except in your comment, is this crazy idea even implied.
What are you trying to say, Jesse Mak, Sola Fide?
“As a pastor it is very wreckless to open up a topic and not have a conclusion… most if not all of Paul letters to his churches have a conclusion because if you dont have a conclusion it would divide the church as what you are seeing now…” “Pastor Kong, I hope you can follow up this thread with a conclusion so topic would be clearer to everyone else…” [Bo rang]
Bor rang, in reading, the conclusion is usually found in the final portion of the writing.
Kong’s exposition does have a conclusion.
You can refer to it again but for your convenience, I have pasted it below.
“To me, the act of self-stimulation is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems: Pornography… Compulsive Masturbation…Resentment in Spouse… Finally, as with most things that are not explicitly encouraged or prohibited in the Bible, one should only do it if it doesn’t go against the inner peace of God in his or her heart (Col. 3:15).” [Kong Hee]
While recognising that “the jury is still out” on this matter, I think the conclusion Kong made is adequately conclusive.
“Well.. for those who really embrace and gladly receive this teaching and said wow and good, I believe it is a great comfort to you because you wont feel bad doing it anymore. Please continue to practice it and masturbate and feel good about it. If you are truely born again, you will know what is pleasing to God, or what is right and what is wrong.” [disgusted]
These are patently senseless statements, disgusted.
We, who have read carefully and understood Kong’s writings, applaud him for his courage to address this taboo topic, the balanced perspectives presented and his recognition that the topic remains controversial (as inferred from the metaphor that the jury is still out).
The majority of the comments here are positive because we recognise his adroit handling of the sensitivities involved and appreciate him for it.
I think we are better off in our understanding of the complexities within this topic.
I encourage you to read, read, and re-read if it helps, the article carefully before jumping to inane conclusions.
“In the last days, many false teaching will come forth, and I am shocked it come from someone who I use to think is a role model or somewhat respectable. Worst stiil, I cannot comprehend how people can embrace such teaching and get deceived by it. It is just like 1 + 1 = 3, and you can say it is correct!”
Dr Kong Hee is indeed a role model and respectable.
Your subsequent mathematical analogy is, at best, a poor one, and in fact, a wrong one.
In which of Kong’s statement made that you suggest is likened to a “1”+1=3”?
Be very careful of misleading the other readers here, disgusted.
disgusted, be careful also to label whatever ideas disagreeable to you or whatever you fail to understand as ‘false teaching’.
In fact, it is really okay to say that “the jury is still out”.
“And please do not drag other minister into the erroneous teaching when they are talking within the marriage context.” [disgusted]
Once again, disgusted, a careful reading of Kong’s post above will expose your baseless accusation.
I have pasted the relevant section below for your convenience.
“What about those who are not averse to it? Mark Driscoll, the preaching pastor at the 7,500-member Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington, was quoted as having said this in one of his video lectures: “In marriage is it okay for one to masturbate the other? Yes, as long as it promotes oneness between a couple … But if you are someone who masturbates in a nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic way and you are single, it is not a sin.” [Kong Hee]
Note the last statement. Discoll was referring to singles. That is, not within the marriage context.
Also,
“In his book, Preparing for Adolescence, Dr. Dobson says, “It is my opinion that masturbation is not much of an issue with God.” [Kong Hee]
Read the book, disgusted, and you will know that Dobson was referring to adolescents. That is, not within the marriage context.
Where forth is your accusation based on, disgusted?
“Lastly, you are a guy, you should know the drive or reason why people masturbate is because of lust.” [disgusted]
I am a “guy”.
And I know that there are many reasons beyond lust that people masturbate.
They are detailed in Kong’s writings above but let me reiterate them below for your convenience.
The reasons can include
1. Semen Sample for infertility treatment
2. Sperm Donation
3. Prescription by Sex Therapists for Sexual Dysfunction
And and your point is, disgusted?
As I read through many of these groundless accusations based on poor or erroneous (intentional/accidental) comprehension of Kong’s exposition and the fallacious arguments so causally bandied around by the self-professed religious claiming to be on a “watch-out for false teachers” [Sola Fide, Jesse Mak], I am deeply concerned about the rifts these very people are creating in the unity of the church.
Lest we forget that Satan is also known as ”the accuser of the brethren” (Rev 12:10).
Instead of playing into his hands through our over-zealousness and by portraying what we want to read into what we read; it would be charitable, and may I add, wise, to read Kong’s commentary for what it is.
Incredulous logical leaps lead to unreasonable accusations; that when exposed, only reveal how puerile the perpetuators are.
There have been many thoughtless and unsubstantiated ad hominem arguments bandied carelessly by these individuals on this blog.
I think an apology to Dr Kong Hee is in order.
Victor
Early Dictionary definitions are ‘ self abuse’. After all that’s what it is!
Thanks Pst for all these sharing.
It really educate & keep us guarded in our lives.
You are the best.
Dear Jesse Mak, Sola Fide,
My apologies for the late response. Yes I take that back, you didn’t accuse Ps Kong as a false prophet. I still think you should consider being aware of prioritising faith when things don’t look peachy. If Ps Kong was wrong then have faith God will attend to it. As you’ve acknowledged, he is a man of God and as his followers we should aspire to be more like Peter or John than Judas Iscariot.
If we are to be in the world but not of it, to reap this harvest, win people to Christ etc. etc. you don’t have to perpetuate an atmosphere of accusations and possible dark insinuations. You may have had the sincerest of intentions, but evil don’t care. You know the scariest thing I noticed in this world is how evil grasps the purest of intentions to serve itself.
Let me unpack this. They say alongside good is evil. The purest of places is surrounded by the most evil of evil. Satan is the accuser, this is how he rolls; he don’t care for building churches, prosperity etc. etc. he’s in the business of tearing down. A way to combat this is through faith. The more believers are in unity with faith, the more powerful. When a fellow brother is not acting himself, you shield him and pray for him.
Don’t tear him down. You may have the purest of intentions but evil don’t care. Whatever comes out of your mouth sets off a spiritual repercussion. There is a war, a holy war not everyone can see but we are very much a part of. You said alot of things that make sense but I don’t think you looked above and prayed about it before opening your mouth. I think you would agree with me by now, your righteousness may’ve won the day, but your faith took a beating. I see that you have mellowed down abit though. Bravo!
I once had this dream about a giant glowing cloud. All these christians were hammering away inside the cloud, building the place up. There were compartments in the cloud where people would be having prayer meetings, bustling about doing churchy things but I was in a furor trying to get close to the core where I could see the Lord’s light. I teared flap after flap as the light grew brighter and brighter until I knew the next flap would be the Lord, but the Lord suddenly said ‘Don’t tear my cloud!’ I was so ashamed and backed off.
This is not really an issue to do with ‘masturbation’ but the reaction you set off among others. Whether they interpreted correctly or not what you said is besides the point. People didn’t appreciate the fact your went on your ‘high-horse’ when all of us could’ve done that as christians. I could’ve easily accused Ps Kong of everything you said but I did not. I come from a very conservative background, unlike you I don’t masturbate because I have no sexual desires, this is how I roll, keeping holy for the Lord. If I can put up with what Ps Kong said, I just don’t see what your beef is. It isn’t like he posted porn up and told us all to masturbate masturbate, spread the sexuality dear brethrens.
You see I recognised this post was not intended for me and it was not in my business to question Ps Kong’s integrity or his role model to young people. I just merely stated my opinion and that was it, you could’ve done that too minus the theatrics. Ps Kong is not a fool, I’m sure he is aware of the consequences of what the discussion would have so I chose to be the bigger christian and trust my shepherd and let him reach out to the lost. I have no business to patronise him with my righteousness even if I could because this is between him and God.
Ps Kong has dreams the world has yet to even concieve of and why he brought the subject of masturbation or alcoholism might be more apparent later on down the track. You just never know if a wayward sinner stumbles upon his blog and thinks hey these people don’t judge!!! They don’t judge alcohol drinkers or masturbators, maybe I should check this church out. So as I say I am in the mindset of revival and that revival is not gonna be won by my purity or necessarily by my holiness. I bet you more teens have a copy of Britney Spears sitting on their shelf than the canonization of holy holy rite. If you think holiness equates to revival, how far is the Catholic church going in terms of their revival agenda of late?
I’m choosing to clothe a prostitute, offer a helping hand to a sinning brother, share a meal with a homeless person, preach the gospel to a thief, show compassion towards a racist, offer the other cheek to my enemies. Of all these actions do you think this is brought upon by my holiness? Do you think these interactions make me more holy? Is befriending a prostitute a good role model for young people? because this is what Jesus did. As I said, I question whether you’re ready for a revival.
My advise is to pray more, pray and fast even better and after some time if you are still at odds with Ps Kong because I don’t think this is just about ‘masturbation’ I feel there are other unresolved issues you have had about Ps Kong’s ministry, so for our Lord and for yourself, I suggest seek a sanctuary that cultivates your holiness. You don’t want to let yourself be eaten away by misunderstandings or odds with an anointed pastor. Don’t let yourself represent what Satan is very good at because I can see you’re a beautiful person on the inside and Satan is itching to malign your reputation and steal your future from His will.
I can see you are highly intelligent, aware of alot of things, full of righteousness, extremely courageous (I think you have alot of tension in your balls standing up to Ps Kong and getting battered by everyone so I’m certain you don’t masturbate much or have a story to tell about it, impressive!), would be a great role model to christians, potential to be a great leader, possess alot of grace and love, alot of positive things and if you just prayed more, humble yourself, build up your faith, trust God more, show mercy and compassion to others, trust His will etc. etc. tone down the sharpness, don’t place such high expectations on others, not everyone is as smart as you, rely on the Lord not others, then it’ll all be good.
I pray you will take the time to pray as opposed to thinking about it, and reassess these things not by human understanding but by attuning to Him. Then hopefully apologise to Ps Kong, apologise to everyone, kiss and make up etc. etc. and continue reaping with us this harvest. Just be sharp with your faith above all else. I just think you should chill more as well just in terms of character because blowing up with righteousness can repel people.
Maybe it’s a good idea you’re not in a cell group, I’d say you’re better off aspiring for an angry prophet life, it would be an honour to have you as one of the moderators on this forum I started http://ehspace.proboards.com Please join, you’d be perfect :) Let all the hate mail come to this forum, I see you’ve made alot of friends in Ps Kong’s blog, we can cleanse and heal all the iniquities, transgression by summoning His stripes, pilfer the vileness out into oblivion. Have a nice day.
Love,
Sonia
P.S. Who’s Jesse Mak? Cheers.
I really don’t understand what the criticisms are all about.
When did Pastor Kong state that masturbation was OK?
When Ps. Kong said “one should only do it if it doesn’t go against the inner peace of God in his or her heart” I really don’t think that he is talking about masturbation, he is talking about things in general, so don’t be mistaken.
And Gosh, he is not taking a stand for masturbation, he is not teaching us that masturbation is good or something. Look at it this way, many people masturbate even though they won’t admit it. Non-christians and christians alike, when non-christians start to get converted, they might be getting worried whether masturbation might cause them to be isolated from the rest. They get worried and the mental stress that they might be experiencing could finally lead to depression. What Ps. Kong is doing is simply lifting a load from their shoulders so that they are not pressured by their mental barrier.
Pastor Kong doesn’t answer the question (Y/N) Why?
The bible doesn’t state directly or indirectly, as a matter of fact, that masturbation is wrong. And do u really need to LOOK at pornography or think up perverted thoughts to masturbate? No!
When a man masturbates to provide sperm to scan for health problems does the doctor say, “here you go, Look at this, it might act as a stimulus” One thing i’m sure is that when u need to provide your semen for a health screening, you won’t be thinking about anything other then the health screening right?
Sola Fide on June 18th, 2009 11:53 pm
What has rape have to do with masturbating? Does that mean that when you masturbating, you are raping yourself?
Sola Fide on June 20th, 2009 12:50 am
“2) Does this wish of ” nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic masturbation” came from the Holy Spirit, or another Spirit?”
I don’t think that pastor kong mentioned any of those in his post, he only told us what is considered Really Bad, and i find your post kinda funny, WISH for NON-ADDICTIVE masturbation, please rephrase.
and, Sola Fide are you implying that Pastor Kong is not filled with the holy spirit? Are you saying that Pastor Kongdid not consult with the holy spirit b4 posting this highly controversial post? I am sure he has given deep thought into this, he is not leading baby christians in the wrong directions. And i’m sure if you are a mature chrisitan, you would already know whether this is right or wrong.
You sola fide is a scholar but do you think other people are?
I’m sure you meant well to post all those posts but please take into consideration all the other people and Pastor Kong. Consider the pros of this blogpost and not always look at the cons of this passage.
Cheers.
Simplicity
Dear Sonia and everyone who mentioned my name above,
Thank you very much for all for your responses to my comments. As all of you wrote and will agree, everyone is not perfect including me. I felt the Lord compresses me to apologize for the wordings I used and my attitude presented on Kong’s blog. Frankly speaking I felt really angry at first after I saw Kong’s blog, just like what Jesus filled with the “Holy Anger” when He entered the temple and saw people using it wrongly. However I admit that my presentation was inappropriate and somehow involving personal attack, which is clearly a sin in the Bible. Really sorry for that to both pastor Kong and all those who felt being hurt due to my wordings, and any accusations I brought to Kong. All of you could see my weaknesses clearly. Please ignore my first three posts above as I can see my flesh was in effect when I wrote them. I did not read carefully on Kong’s article, but I believe that some people who read the article would have the same first impression as me. Kong, sorry for that, and next time you may use words smarter to avoid misrepresentation to some people:)
Although I do not agree with Pastor Kong with his position in masturbation (My position has been stated in 23/6/2009), I states here clearly that Kong is not a false teacher in my opinion. I appreciate the work of Kong and City Harvest Church for God, but at certain positions I am not quite agree.
I share with all of you what I experienced last week that led me to apologize to Kong and CHC. Last week I was seriously criticized by a Christian without substantial support, and just draw superficial conclusions on what I do and write. I clearly understand what Kong experienced when he read what I wrote. Sorry for that! How interesting our God is!
I believe that God still gave us some blessings in this incidence. Apart from my weakness that He revealed, it also show to us that no Churches are perfect, including mine and City Harvest Church. When you see what some of the guys wrote on the blog with criticisms and purely from flesh, it reveals their immaturity in Christ. Add oil City Harvest Church!
But I want to clarify what a scholor does as I see some of you in CHC have certain kind of stereotype on those in acedamic field for Jesus Christ. This may be due to occations that Kong mentioned in his sermons that there are some religious people that always criticizes, are hypocriticies, etc. Yes certain scholors are like this since this is the greatest trap of a scholor. But the work of a scholor cannot be neglected or rejected. Bibical scholors are those who specialize in Bibical teaching and would warn or teach when an unbibical teachings spread that make the Church of Christ impure or unclean. We are not always finding opportunities to curse leaders as false teachers or find fraud in their sermons. A scholor would read books and informations from different, diverse streams in Christianity, to obtain a diverse and comprehensive picture of the Kingdom of Christ. Through site visits, listening sermons on web, and reading books, we conduct our researchs which bring insights for the common wealth of all in Christ.
I am a Chinese Scholor who went all over China and Asia for my study and researchs. My study cover China, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, etc. For security reason I cannot tell you who I am or else I may not be permitted to go to some Gospel-blocked places to further my researchs and preaching. What I states on the web “Sola Fide, Jesse Mak” is not my real name. I will site visit City Harvest Church next year in Asia Conference as a part my research too. Anyway give my blessings to Kong and all of you in City Harvest Church!
Love,
Sola Fide, Jesse Mak
to Sola Fide, Jesse Mak.
i’m quite concerned in the how u feel pst kong is at fault for not taking a stand against something “so personal”..
firstly, God didn’t make a stand in our life.. life is a choice, love God is a decision. If God wants to be manipulative then faith would not have been needed. God puts before us blessings and cursings. life and death. so now pastor kong put it clear that “the act of self-stimulation is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems”
so “if” here simplies mean scenario of worrying will occurs when it leads to the following three problems.. so it’s the same as how Gen 2:16-17 God told Adam that Adam will only die IF eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
God places before us a choice. but he shows the consequence.. paul wrote it plainly the wages of sin is death but where sin abounds grace abounds more which leads me to my 2nd point
2) Our God is all gracious and merciful, nonetheless we should never sin because grace abounds. Grace is not a license to sin, grace is to give us the ability to overcome sin.
ok let me give you this scenario that if a guy that is addicted to masturbation and one day he came to church and he got saved, yet immediately that very day when he goes home, he felt the urge of masturbation, the temptation to masturbate, n he masturbated and he felt bad and let God down. will he still goes to heaven? he will.. because he is free from the penalty of sin because of the justification of christ, but now as he begins to walk with God have knowledge(Gr. Ginosko) he can slowly reduced the addiction and finally overcome the power of sin in his life–> that’s what sanctification is all about, knowledge of God or the word of God sanctifies us. if we are immediately perfected then we would not need to sanctifies ourselves so when the bible says word of God sanctifies us(John 17:17
), it’s redundant.. rom 6:6 would have been redundant as well.. then where comes the glory to glory, faith to faith? isit not how we overcome..
if pastor kong has made an outright stand, the guy i gave in the example will feel condemned that he has let God down, because of shame that he still sin. but pastor left it as an open-ended discussion. where by it’s worrying when this thing happen, my own point of view means, if your form of masturbation leads to those problem u should change them cause it’s worrying.. so the guy here, having a weakness makes God’s strength perfected, because he will depend on God’s grace. saying like Paul in romans 7:24-25 “24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! ”
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.”
even Paul the apostle of the gentiles says that his flesh serve the law of sin, we(the just) lived by faith. that boy in my example, even when he masturbated after he got saved. assuredly i say to u.. he was saved, and is saved and will be saved. because if he learns Godly brokenness it will leads him to true repentance.
check yourself always that whether are you struggling with your flesh, cos no one is perfect
3) lastly after all the above, lastly one thing i have against what you say. legalism, being legalistic. being a scholar, you are just like the scribes which tries to find fault in Jesus maybe good and bad (well u haf the religious scribes and pharisees and the disciples of berea).. challenging people with the words is correct attitude i have to agree, but let’s not have an arguement of who and what, let’s just focus on the word of God, God’s the judge, i understand many other people are concerned with this blog post, n i understand why, but if Pastor kong is not a man from God or He has strayed from the truth. let God be the judge, deu 29:29 shows there are still alot of things you do not know either even if you are a scholar, ok let’s not talk about how much you have studied, but ask yourself this do u haf genuine love for the people, humanism u said? didn’t God say love others as yourself, it’s God not concern about us??if his not why did he send his son for us? didn’t John 3:16 says clearly that for God so love the world. Jesus love the world, his not a God that does not understand hebrews 2:18 .Jesus was also tempted in all ways, that is why he says that he understands.
understanding brings acceptance( where grace works at), acceptance is not agreement.
pastor kong is not a dictator, only a dictator makes a stand on what people must do or what people must not do. so likewise i hope you are not one either..
1 last verse b4 i end to remind you not to be legalistic, Gal 3:1-3.. we got saved by faith, begun in the spirit. don’t set rules that God themselves did not set..
i tell u if that boy that was in my example went to the church that u pastor-ed, the sure results is, he will backslide thinking that is impossible to be a christian, and he feels condemned and that God is angry God, God is angry with him, that his feeling that what he do is never good enough.
and from what i know, only the deceiver comes to say we are not good enough, Jesus always says we are more than conquerors in Christ and we will overcome evil with good!
that’s all.. may you understand the knowledge of the mystery of Christ
Dear Raymond,
Let me tell you why I react so seriously when I first read this article. Again please take it lightly as my personal comments and by no means are they criticisms or personal attack. Many of my queries are being cleared when I read Kong’s article again and again. However below is really my first impression when I read the article. I believe that many of you who first read the article would also have such perceptions.
1) In my opinion, the presumption of this article is secular humanism heavily influenced by the gimmick of post-modernism. This could be observed when some of the arguments are based on effects it bring, health concerns, sociology studies, and the uncertain conclusion that it drew. I considered these arguments are good actually, however not conclusive in theology. Because of this, this article may be a good psychological or ethical article but cannot be accepted as absolute truth or authorial guidance on the issue of masturbation. However since it as written by a famous pastor like Kong, many people would take it seriously.
2) The article ends with “self-stimulation is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems… Pornography… Compulsive Masturbation… Resentment in Spouse…” without asking the reader to trust and pray to God to help them get rid of masturbation with the power of the Holy Spirit. This is the greatest imperfection I considered in this article. As mature Christian Leaders we should encourage our sheep to live without masturbation and discipline self-control, rather than merely telling them certain kinds of self-stimulation is not worrying.
3) I got really confused when I read “self-stimulation is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems… Pornography… Compulsive Masturbation…”. Kong did not clearly define what he meant by “self-stimulation” here. In normal case one could get “self-stimulation” in Masturbation only if he do it with lust or sexual thoughts. If I did not read the article carefully again and again, many of us may draw a conclusion that “Masturbation with thought is OK and it is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems… Pornography… Compulsive Masturbation… Resentment in Spouse…”. If Kong clearly define what he meant by “self-stimulation” for male is “rubbing penis purely for release of semen without any thought”, many of my worries would be released. However I would like to state here that I do not consider that “rubbing penis purely for release of semen without any thought” must not be a sin. Moreover I consider it as impractical, as doubt if there is anyone who really practices it without thoughts.
4) At first a person may be able to masturbate without thoughts, but masturbation is a thing like drugs that lead people to get more excitement in practicing it. I believe many of those who practice thoughtless masturbation will eventually end up doing it with pornography. If it could lead to sin eventually (if not at the beginning…), why we allow us to enter into the temptation in the first place?
5) I really concern what the effect this article would bring for youths who read it. At first glance the atmosphere of this article is to “break the Christian tradition”, and give us a truth that no Christian saints in the history of Christianity had discovered. And after I read this article, I really think that a youth would think certain kinds of masturbation is OK and start to practice it. This also deepens my concerns in point 4. Even worst some of them may have a reason to masturbate boldly, and neglect the fact that they may sin against God in certain circumstances.
The above the five reasons why I reacted strongly after I first read the article. This was also why I asked Kong to clarify. However after reading it again and again many of my concerns were erased. However if it takes a Scholar so much time in understanding the point of view that Kong presents here, what would an ordinary youth think when he/she read this article.
My dear, forgive me but I just states my personal points of view. You may not agree with it, but I believe there are some people who suffer from the same concerns as me when they first read the article. Thank you.
Love,
Sola Fide, Jesse Mak
i think it’s merely perspective. if u were open from the start, u would have accept it. but i guess it’s normal for scholar to have a careful look, being wary of winds of doctrine around.. i think now all that is left is perspective already. i shall reason no further with u about doctrine.
however, in theology we have this term call, “silent arguement” meaning what is not written we cannot assumed that is written or assumed that is not written.. mainly what i’m saying is not to be presumptuous.
firstly, pastor didn’t said it was absolute truth or authorial guidance on the issue of masturbation, his just giving his point of view.
like it’s normal for a pastor to give a point of view. but what’s most important is God’s view .. that is why pastor ended up the post with [Finally, as with most things that are not explicitly encouraged or prohibited in the Bible, one should only do it if it doesn’t go against the inner peace of God in his or her heart (Col. 3:15).]
like i say since it’s ur own point of view, then don’t judge or make it like God’s point of view, everyone has different point of view, just do things in faith giving glory to God, just like how paul say we should not trouble the weaker in faith, but give more honor to the lesser body, just be more accepting to people, if you are really concern with this issue, and you want your point of view to be heard, you can actually set up your own blog and post it up on the e-world after doing your research.
last 2 verse i give to you, on sharing of views. when i said it is ok to give your perspective but it is another issue to make it a commandment. paul said in 1 cort 7:6-9 .. he gave his view that he thinks we should not get married if we can, but he didn’t make it a commandment. lastly, if you really want to understand pastor’s intention of helping people in the area of this need you need to understand 1cort 9:22-23.
As far as we want comment on this post, reader will read and conclude in their mind that masturbation is ok from this post. Say all you want that the writer didnt say whether masturbation is right or wrong, but the fact is that it is written toward pro masturabtion.
And when there is no absolute answer to this post whether masturbation is right or wrong.. And it is just very misleading and it did not give a clear direction..
We can argue all we want, but leaving a post without conclusion causing everyone to be confuse. Esp in such topic, you got to give an definite answer like right or wrong!
Seriously.. Is this about Kong Hee or God? Is Kong Hee word like a decree? What he is must be from God? After all he is a man who is not perfect. So why do we take his word like a decree? As long as you know that it is not pleasing to God, then dont do it. Is not about Kong Hee, is about Jesus.
So no point trying to argue and justify it, do our best a walk before God blameless and pleasing… At the end of the day.. Is it God who will judge, and ALL THE PASTORS will be judge for the things that they teach to God’s flock. So as far as I am concern, I am sticking with God and to live base on His word and to live a life pleasing to Him. To me, I know it is definitely not pleasing to Him..because I did struggled with this, and I know whenever I fall into this cycle of masturbation, I can feel that He is greive..
So I live my life base on how I really want to please God. I stand for what is right by living that a life for Him that pleases Him. Leave the judgement to God.
So one day we all shall know the truth in the day of judgement.. So be very afraid my friends! =)
Dear Edmond,
I personally believe that through logical discussion we can get a more comprehensive understanding on the Bible. No one can claims that he understand all truths or all of his interpretations are 100% without faults. Only Jesus can claim that. And so we need each other in the Body of Christ. I suggest you to immerse yourself into different streams of theologies for your benefits. Being too focused on a particular set of theory would prohibit us in seeing the other side of God. Together we build up the body of Christ and we become stronger and stronger.
My last post is just my opinion and is not judgement ot personal attack on Kong or CHC. I have clearly mentioned that it is just my first impression and I know Kong did not make it intentionally, nor he did it in evil spirit. No. It was just my personal suggestions for Kong and all readers, in which he and you may take it and benefit from it or just ignore it.
I don’t believe that Kong is a person who will to listen to positive comments only but not some suggestions for a room of improvement. Just as students need to be evaluated on their exams, and teachers’ comments by no means can be considered as criticisms or judgements as what you mentioned. Sometimes Kong will be my teacher, reveals many of the spiritual truths to me and help me to improve in certain areas. In the same way I also believe that in certain areas I can raise my suggestions and comments to Kong in area I think he could do better. Only Jesus is perfect, right?
I welcome you to comment on every word I write, but I just want you to know that no man is perfect. We need one another. I don’t believe that CHC is a place like a totalitarian country in Asia right now who persecute any voices with a different opinion, right? Christianity is different from certain extreme, controlling religions, in which only a certain religious leader spoke is true, right> May God bless you.
Love,
Sola Fide, Jesse Mak
No point trying to argue and justify about who is right and wrong. It is ok to express your view in this.
Need to say who is right? or wrong?
To the commentator that goes by :( and to those who are still confused,
Please read the other comments and the follow-up responses before repeating thoughtless accusations that have been demonstrated clearly to be baseless and are recognized as patent falsehoods.
Your persistence in doing that is tantamount to perpetuating lies.
“And when there is no absolute answer to this post whether masturbation is right or wrong.. And it is just very misleading and it did not give a clear direction..We can argue all we want, but leaving a post without conclusion causing everyone to be confuse. Esp in such topic, you got to give an definite answer like right or wrong!” [:( ]
I reiterate my earlier reply to bo rang.
“In reading, the conclusion is usually found in the final portion of the writing.
Kong’s exposition does have a conclusion.
You can refer to it again but for your convenience, I have pasted it below.
“To me, the act of self-stimulation is worrying only if it leads to the following three problems: Pornography… Compulsive Masturbation…Resentment in Spouse… Finally, as with most things that are not explicitly encouraged or prohibited in the Bible, one should only do it if it doesn’t go against the inner peace of God in his or her heart (Col. 3:15).” [Kong Hee]
While recognising that “the jury is still out” on this matter, I think the conclusion Kong made is adequately conclusive.” [Victor]
On another note, our self-professed “scholor”, sola fide aka jesse mak, has apologized publicly on this forum.
“I felt the Lord compresses me to apologize for the wordings I used and my attitude presented on Kong’s blog… I admit that my presentation was inappropriate and somehow involving personal attack, which is clearly a sin in the Bible.” [sola fide, jesse mak]
Let’s give him a break an move on.
Victor
i read with interest with all the viewpoints over here..especially people who attack a servant of God without much objectivity, without fearing the ground might open up someday to swallow them up like what happened to aaron and miriam in the bible.
for people concerned with too little written or addressed over here, hello,this is a blog, not a biography .
if Pastor were to address every single one of the concerns, it would be like what the bible says for John recording down what Jesus did,”If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.”
and isn’t it funny that some of these people are so lazy to do their own research in the bible but wants Pastor to do all the work instead and answer their ridiculous train of thoughts in some of these comments posted?
and i seriously think that people are not so gullible and low in IQ,EQ,RQ or whatever you call it to be so called ‘deceived’ in thinking that Pastor is encouraging them to masturbate.
We do have a brain and filled with Holy Spirit to discern. so stop worrying for people you do not even know!
and any sane person reading would see this article as informative, and like any blogs, a topic out for discussion.
but of course, Pharisees in the church would relish this chance to put words into another person’s mouth.
Angeline
When you don’t open your mouth, nobody will know you’re ignorant. Can you go pls read the bible before you try to act smart. “the ground did not swallow aaron and miriam” like you mentioned.
In a blog, people are free to give their views. Don’t be naive and ignorant. Grow Up!
I agree with “MuchAdoAboutNothing”. Unless what the other spoke is clearly unbiblcal or is somehow misleading or confusing, we should respect different kinds of opinion. We cannot limit ourselves to listen to one kind of opinion. Otherwise we would not grow up in maturity in Christ. Do use “final judgement” to threaten other people, angeline. This is neither come out of love or mercy, nor is a constructive method to speak out what you think. If Kong said that his blog is free to comment (as I know he always said this on facebook), he don’t need anybody to help him to request someone to shut up.
Love,
Sola Fide, Jesse Mak
Clarify: What I want to write is “Do not use “final judgement” to threaten other people, angeline”.
Thanks.
Love,
Sola Fide, Jesse Mak
precisely, my point is, since it all voice down to perspective. let’s not argue who right and whose wrong, do all things in faith giving glory to God. Just like charismatic and non charismatic, what’s most important is just to love God and His word, what we don’t know we don’t judge, it is not about immerse in theology a not, i’m a bible school student, but i’m sure even if someone didn’t learn anything about theology, or they totally don’t understand what we are arguing about, to them they will simply get saved because of their relationship with God.
so why waste time, Christian persecuting Christian or reasoning among ourselves, God delights in our unity, sola fide, i’m quite sure, even if pastor really replies you, his point will be rather similar to his post, as i’m sure he did a thorough check before posting this post.
let’s not trouble each other, whether those who eats everything or those who eats only vege.
pastor has already make his stand, if your masturbation act leads to the following 3 problems, it is worrying.isn’t that a stand or statement by itself? nonetheless why pastor didn’t say it’s sin, because he don’t want to be presumptuous if the bible didn’t make a clear stand on the act of masturbation itself, pastor will not make a stand. meaning if you who wants to makes a stand, do you think you are higher than God’s? or God being the Alpha and Omega, didn’t foresee that such acts will be done in future?
now if you are arguing on what masturbation possibly lead to, isn’t that the same as saying masturbation if lead to other issues is worrying, as one of the suggestion is that masturbation leads to lust. so the sin now is lust and not the act of masturbation itself. so did pastor said lust was not a sin?
if you continue on “silent arguement” issues, all i can say is show proof.
sometimes it is really hard to be a christian not because God is not a good God, but simply because people trying to bring one another down.
God is our judge, ps 127:1-2 promotions come from God, if the ministry is not going according to God’s way, God has a way to deal with it or bring it down. Nobody is to judge.
and this time sola fide i’m not referring just to you, just making a general reply. but u should be able to understand what i am saying
Sola Fide
Although at the beginning your tone was a little too harsh, I know where that’s coming from. You are a person who will not compromise the truth. I admire you for that. I appreciate the fact that you take the trouble to clarify your stand. Now that the job is done, I think we should all call quit.
It’s no point to answer everyone who try to sling a shot at you. They’re not willing to listen to you no matter how good your intentions are.
So let’s move on, brother. Take care and God be with you.
opps, that’s what happened when reading through all the comments late at night.
To MuchAdoAboutNothing:
For your infor, I know my bible. In any way, if you have good english understanding, i did not in anyway discourage views or request people to shut up.
To Sola Fide:
Good for you.
To: Angeline
Go back to sleep. That’ll do you more good.
Bless you.
Dear Sola Fide, Jesse Mak
God bless you brother. Thank-you :) Victory for heaven! Glory to God! The beauty of being a christian, together we will make it. We just need abit of faith in each other sometimes ei :) I’m coming to the 2010 Asia Conference too. It would be good if we could meet but I understand it might jeopardise the nature of your work. I respect that. I’ll see you around.
Sincerely,
Sonia
wow, that is interesting. thanks for sharing. god bless you.
Thanks for dealing with this hard subject. In the UK, we call it WANKING. So at first, I was a little confused by the word masturbation until you explained it.
A better term is WANKING – as this is the original term used to explain the issue.
Ps Kong Hee,
Seek The Lord in your quite time and ask if He is happy with what you said!
CTKIKO,
Do not insinuate! If you have a point of view, state it clearly but be prepared to back it up with scripture and hard facts. I will quote your advise and leave you with this ” Seek The Lord in your quite time and ask if He is happy with what you said!”
Be blessed
Julius
Is female masturbation a sin? I have been masturbating since I was 8 years old with my male neighbor who was 9 years old at that time. Thank goodness I discovered masturbation or else I wouldn’t know what crazy stuff I’d have done with all that chemical built up in my system. Mr Pastor, you should spend your time feeding the hungry, clothing the poor. Not wasting your time preaching knowledge that hasn’t even been proven “sinful” by science. Have you masturbated before, Mr Pastor?
Hi, I am called “I.N.”. Im from a minor religion in Singapore. I gotta cut things short cuz’ apparently what ever I have typed are cleared after my Authentication Codes above are typed inaccurately.
Anyway, I just wanna cut thing short now. Masturbation exist long before Religions even exist. Masturbation is done among some mammals such as Dogs, Cats, Tiger, Ape, and the highly intelligent and unique, Human Beings. I do not know your (Pastor Kong & Fellow Christians here) take on the Human Evolution. But our closest biological relatives, the apes, do perform masturbation too. In the past, Masturbation were done almost as though it is a normal thing to do in one’s lifetime. However, as we developed, evolves and form civilisations and society, our view on Nudity, Sex, Lust and many other stuffs changed. Up till today, we belongs to the ‘Modern Man’ category and many things that were once ‘Normal’ are not as normal as before. You won’t see people naked walking down the streets, taking MRTs, or having sex in the middle of Orchard Road. Religions, Civilisation and Development in Human Culture have moulded what we are practising on now in our daily life.
I believe that Pastor Kong founded the City Harvest Church, which is a Christian (Charismatic denomination) church. Do Christians (a question to everyone who are christians) still embraces the 7 Deadly Sins? (Or the Venial Sins and Mortal Sins or the Roman Catholic)? Masturbation is a sexual stimulation process involving the contact of one’s sexual organ. And I’m boldly confident to say that Masturbation involves Sexual elements at some point of the masturbation process. From Erection to Ejaculations (for guys), and from Aroused to Ejaculation (for ladies), one will think of a fantasy at some point of the process in order to achieve arousal to continue masturbation.
Yes, there are religions that involves lovemaking in order to achieve an alternate state of consciousness but they are done discreetly and among 2 parties/couple. However, a ’sexual element’ is still needed in order to proceed with the lovemaking (Guys need arousal in order to ERECT FOR SEX). So is the case for masturbation. Masturbation is good for one if done in moderation, and there is no way masturbation can be differentiated with any Sexual elements. Notice that I have stated ‘Sexual Elements’? What I refer to by that are stuffs such as “Imagined visuals of the one that he/she is sexually interested in, and that does not limit of guys thinking of guys or girls thinking of girls” (Im a straight by the way but I am very tolerant towards gays), carressing parts that allows one to be aroused, etc… … All of these involves a certain degree of lust and sex factor. You cannot remove them from Human Beings.
Ok, that is all I am going to discuss now. By the way, I am tolerant with any religions unless the religion deviates for no reasons away from it’s initial teachings. Also, great emphasis is needed at any point of man’s existence in this world. All religions (except the cults, for obvious reasons) teaches good philosophy to their believers. However, the sad thing currently is that every religion will said that their god is the real. But what I said is that ALL gods (and/or goddess) from all religions are real. (The reason I shall not explained here to complicate and confused people.) They perform and existed for the same reason for mankind. And that is what makes a human civilsation advanced. Religious tolerance. If that is why he/she believes in, he/she will accomplishe some personal feats with the help of his/her religion at any point(s) in their life. What a person need is a strong belief in their God (and/or Goddess). Human beings have a powerful mind. Ever heard of ‘Mind over body’? It is true and a great and persistent mind will lead one into a contented life. Same for believing in your god/goddess. As long as you believe in your god/goddess, you sub-conscious mind will guide you with you believing strongly in your god/goddess of any religion that you are in or are in the midst of pursuing right now. There are no bad religions in this world, and all religions are certain to bring you on a fulfilling, content life and afterlife. What is needed now in mankind is great belief in faith, regardless of religions. :) Well, as for me, I have chosen my path and I have a strong belief in it, and in return, my mind leads me to an enriching life, and as long as you bring no harm (any form) to anyone, any living things or anything that you are not supposed to harm, the things that return to you threefold will be something that you will appreciate, and well deserved. I am now currently learning and understanding my faith and will be expected to gain an official recognition in my faith in a few years, similar to what Pastor Kong had undertaken in the Christian Divinity and Theological Studies and he achieved and he made it. He may thank god, and he may thank him, I am not him, so I shall not speculate. But the reason for most who have accomplished what they want comes from the devotion, commitment and belief that they had in themselves – their mind, and following it is the God of your life. The God is any great spiritual entities that you strongly believe in now in your faith.
In conclusion, Believe in yourselves, and Believe in Your God/Goddess, and things will work out on its own. You may not see the result when you want it to, but most often you will see it in the least expected moment of your life.
Everyone faces different amount of problems, but all these problems serves to make you stronger day by day. You can’t eliminate problems. You can minimize it, embrace it and make you someone who is much stronger in your mind. Some may overcome the problem by their own means, but others may need spiritual guidance, and they are the ones that, with their belief in their God/Goddess, his/her mind will be much more ready to face the problem,overcome it and embrace it.
Have a nice day. :)
Blessed Be,
I.N.
P.S. Haha, sorry for those. My definition of Short is 2 pages. Hahah! I’m an intensive blogger that is whatever I typed looked like a full-length essay. Hope that you guys understand that :D
World Peace.
I.N.
P.S. Before I leave this article. I must say that I am impressed with Pastor Kong’s intensive research on this topic. It is pretty well-written. I have no complaints over that. However, this topic still must be carefully read over and over if you really wanna know whether Masturbation is allowed in Christianity. I believe Christian’s Bible condemn Lust. Lust is a term that is a “variable”, but no matter what, if that is what the bible said, the believers must follow. A Bible is like a Rules and Regulations (just a metaphor, no puns intended) book of a certain club. In this case, the club is Christianity, The Book is of course, the Holy Bible. If you wanna join the club, you gotta adhere to the rules and regulations. Different clubs have different rules and regulations. However, if you are seriously interested in the club, you better adhere to them. And the difference the Holy Bible and a Rules & Regulation Book is that the Holy Bible is a ‘heavyweight’ book, where contents are written and edited for hundreds and hundreds of editions, and the Holy Bible you have found today can be considered to be a flawless book of the faith since it has been relooked upon time and time again for centuries. So, these ‘rules’ are embedded inside the book, and into the minds of the believers. It is not something that can be changed just with a snap of a finger anymore (unless you are talking about a newly formed club’s rule book :) )
Pastor Kong’s writings may be for research analysis, or created out of goodwill for the christians in mind. What I found about his writing is that his is more like a ‘thesis’ on masturbation. But one thing I have to agree upon is that he must really state clearly if this article is intended for christians, especially Christian’s youth. Throughout reading the article, I have found it to leave me with some unanswered.
Matthew 5:27-31
You have heard that it was said, You shall not commit adultery.
But I say to you that everyone who so much as looks at a woman with evil desire for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
If your right eye serves as a trap to ensnare you or is an occasion for you to stumble and sin, pluck it out and throw it away. It is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be cast into hell (Gehenna).
And if your right hand serves as a trap to ensnare you or is an occasion for you to stumble and sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better that you lose one of your members than that your entire body should be cast into hell (Gehenna).
Why did Jesus go from speaking about adultery in the heart of man and than speaking about cutting of the hand?? We all know what you use to masturbate with!!!! I absolutely think that Jesus spoke of masturbation in this scripture Jesus did not mean that we are to cut off bodyparts but that we should put away masturbation!
Even without pornography or sexual fantasy it is lustful because the craving in the body has the control over the inner man. I don’t believe it is possible to masturbate without lustful thoughts
Sex was created for sex between husband and wife, not for people to have sex with themself! Sex is not something man must have, we are not created in a way that we must mastubate. There is absolutely no real need to masturbate for a man. If you don’t masturbate you will have emission while you sleep.
1 Thessalonians Amplified Bible
For this is the will of God, that you should be consecrated (separated and set apart for pure and holy living): that you should abstain and shrink from all sexual vice,
That each one of you should know how to possess (control, manage) his own [d]body in consecration (purity, separated from things profane) and honor,
Not [to be used] in the passion of lust like the heathen, who are ignorant of the true God and have no knowledge of His will
And also this, if you doubt that masturbation is wrong for you, than it is!!
Romans 14:23 Amplified Bible
But the man who has doubts (misgivings, an uneasy conscience) about eating, and then eats [perhaps because of you], stands condemned [before God], because he is not true to his convictions and he does not act from faith. For whatever does not originate and proceed from faith is sin [whatever is done without a conviction of its approval by God is sinful].
Romans 13:14 Amplified Bible
But clothe yourself with the Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah), and make no provision for [indulging] the flesh [put a stop to thinking about the evil cravings of your physical nature] to [gratify its] desires (lusts).
Dear Jesse Mak, Sola Fide,
Everyone has his own weaknesses. Forgiveness and acceptance will always be in the house of GOD. come and keep shining for GOD bro.
Take care.
after reading this post, and so many many comments but not all(too much for me@@ ), i would like to give some feedback=D
im just a teenager, i have known God lesser than the many ppl who commented on this blog.
ok… masturbation, the word is kinda like a taboo sometimes.
many ppl relate masturbation to the male gender at most times, how about the women?
im a girl, i accidentaly discovered masturbation when i was really young, maybe 9 years old? i didnt know wat i was doing but i did it cause it felt good. i stopped when i first hit puberty, because i dunno anything about menstruating, i thought the bleeding means i was going to die.. funny…
i dun wanna die, so i stopped =D
ok.. but after i became a christian i stopped cause i was feeling guilty about the whole thing eventhough i still dunno the act is called masturbation and the good feeling is a form sexual pleasure. you can say that mayb i hv better self control or mayb its my hormones not being outrageous. or mayb its different for girls?
i hv a guy fren who admitted that when a hot sexy girl passes by, he will think of her in skimpy clothes, arousing lustful thoughts (FYI he’s not a christian).
but for me, as a female, when a really hot guy passes by, i onli think he’s good looking, nothing to do with stripping off his clothes or watsoever. but that doesnt mean i dont have lust, i definitely do have it even when my boyfren onli puts his arm around me. but it is not so significant to the extent that i hv to “relief” myself.
it may be a christian thing or a girl thing, i dunno…
but i do think that guys have greater urge for sex. and by not being able to have access to it, they masturbate. so in this case, to stop masturbating, i think it will be harder for men….
i really respect Ps. Kong for raising these issues, it may seem taboo-ish to many churches elsewhere but i think that if we keep ignoring these kind of issues in the church, soon teenagers will turn to the world for answers and instead of being filled by God’s wisdom and truth, we will instead be influenced by worldly “wisdom” which is wat God doesn’t want us to be as we are to be in the world but not of the world.
i come from a very traditional church that thinks reading vampire books like twilight is wrong(which i find ridiculous), and the teachings that i received i could hardly apply to the world that i’m living in. my questions about taboo-ish stuff are always unanswered or mayb answered but unexplained. i went through a period of not knowing for so many years till i went into another church with a great pastor =D.
i dunno how to quote bible verses, im not a very experienced christian, but i do know that i want to live a life that is pleasing unto God =D
so back to the topic…
i do know how it feels like to masturbate, it’s a great pleasure, and i still dunno whether its right or wrong, but, i know i do not want it… peace =D
**please have mercy on me that i do not get so many bad comments>”<**
i do not believe it is possible to masturbate w/o thinking lustful thoughts of a man/woman. ie: keep a blank mind while mastrubating? or thinking about something non-lust related? impossible.
since God has said looking at a man/woman lustfully has already committed adultery, its implied that masturbation is forbidden.
thoughts?
Jeremiah, I agree with that statement, totally. It is without any doubt that Masturbation is directly linked with lust. Although there are people who masturbate for lab or other non-sexual purposes,, in order to have ejaculation prior to masturbation, you will need to think of a ’sexy’ image that you think will aid you with the completion of the process. In this case, Yes, Masturbation is a Sin, in Christian’s point of view. However, if you think in terms of human nature, you will meet with ‘otherwise’. Masturbation is a prominent feature in human life since ancient time (way before we are civilised or have religions that those that are commonly found today). If for a period of time, one do not fulfill their sexual need, they will perform it in order for self-relief.
P.S. Ask anyone to try MAsturbate and ejaculate while thinking of Spiritual figures, Unanimated objects like (Bus, Lamp) or Mountains, lakes and etc… Or Even, try to think of God (Maybe in your mind, you are doing that to praise god). All these ain’t possible. Even if you force yourself not to think, at some point near to ejaculation, the ‘lust’ imagery will appear nevertheless…
(I am stating Examples, so dun flame me for disrespecting God. The God I am taking as an example is the Universal God. The God regardless which religion you are. in)….
P.S. AS long as yo do no harm to anyone/anything (including yourself), do whatever you wish to do. So long as you know what is the moral ethnics and not try to attempt something that will harm anything including yourself. ::)
Can anyone tell me if Jesus need to go toilet? I searched the 4 books that talk about Jesus’ life. But there were no where that it was stated that he went to the toilet, not even once. So can I conclude that he did not? Maybe we should start pondering if it is right to go to the toilet….
Or could be it that is is just a nature call and basically a body need, there is no need to mention about it.
—————
“The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
~Georgia Harkness
—————
This is taken from a credible source:
“Biblical Lists
In the Book of Proverbs, it is stated that the Lord specifically regards “six things the Lord hateth, and the seventh His soul detesteth.” namely[2]:
Haughty eyes
A lying tongue
Hands that shed innocent blood
A heart that devises wicked plots
Feet that are swift to run into mischief
A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
Him that soweth discord among brethren
While there are seven of them, this list is considerably different to the traditional one, the only sin on both lists being pride. Another list of bad things, given this time by the Epistle to the Galatians, includes more of the traditional seven sins, although the list is substantially longer: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, “and such like”[3].
[edit] Development of the Traditional Seven Sins
The modern concept of the Seven Deadly Sins is linked to the works of the 4th century monk Evagrius Ponticus, who listed eight evil thoughts, in Latin, as follows[4]:
Gula (gluttony)
Fornicatio (fornication, lust)
Avaritia (avarice/greed)
Tristitia (sorrow)
Ira (wrath)
Acedia (acedia/despair)
Vanagloria (vainglory)
Superbia (Pride)
These ‘evil thoughts’ can be broken down into three groups[4]:
lustful appetite (Gluttony, Fornication, and Avarice)
irascibility (Anger)
intellect (Vainglory, Sorrow, Pride, and Discouragement)
In 590 AD, some years after Ponticus, Pope Gregory I revised this list to form the more common Seven Deadly Sins, by folding sorrow into despair, vainglory into pride, and adding extravagance and envy, while removing fornication from the list. In the order used by both Pope Gregory and by Dante Alighieri in his epic poem The Divine Comedy, the seven deadly sins are as follows:
luxuria (extravagance)
gula (gluttony)
avaritia (avarice/greed)
acedia (acedia/discouragement)
ira (wrath)
invidia (envy)
superbia (pride)
The identification and definition of the seven deadly sins over their history has been a fluid process and the idea of what each of the seven actually encompasses has evolved over time. Additionally, as a result of semantic change:
Lust was substituted for luxuria in all but name
socordia (sloth) was substituted for acedia”
Hi Nep,
The things you listed from Proverbs are specific actions of sin, but they still come under the Ten Commandments. You can see that, these basically fall under : You shall not murder, commit adultery, bear false witness, etc. They are not additional laws, but an exposition of specific action of these sins.
Hence, you cannot draw parallel with what the Pope had listed, which are additional laws, which may not have been specifically listed in the bible and consider them equivalent to scripture.
Consider this:
luxuria (extravagance) – No listing of that as a sin in the bible, from Abraham, Issac, David, Solomon, the Temple, even in the New Testament, all the heroes of faith, missionaries and those who support them were rich people who had abundances.
Of course, if you depend on your riches instead of God, and become prideful of that, then that is idolatry itself. but having riches itself is not sin.
gula (gluttony) – what’s the definition?
avaritia (avarice/greed) – comes under “you shall not covet”
acedia (acedia/discouragement) – what’s the definition? Do you discourage people from harming themselves? Is that sin?
ira (wrath) – definition?
invidia (envy) – comes under “you shall not covet”
superbia (pride) – comes under “idolatry”; idolatry with self
sorrow – doesn’t the bible say He comforts those in grief and sorrow? How can sorrow be listed as sin?
In my view, I think the so-called 7 deadly sins listed here are a mixture of the obvious, added in with man-made rules and laws, similar to how the Pharisees added laws that were not listed in the bible…and Jesus rebuked them for that.
Wow, a hot topic, I suspect because most people deal with this themselves and wonder if they’re doing anything wrong. Just about everything has been said so I don’t know that it makes a difference that I chime in or not.
But in my experience, masturbation itself is much like a bad habit, similar to smoking. Smoking isn’t necessarily a sin but it can lead to unhealthy consequences.
The issue with masturbation is that USUALLY it is preceded by lust, and the lust itself is the issue. Fantasizing and lust are typically predecessors to masturbation, so if you can masturbate without fantasizing and lusting first then you’re a good one.
Typically the major consequences that Christians might run into are the pornography and issues with it affecting your marriage relationship, as some people cannot derive pleasure from the sexual relationship with their partner because they are used to getting it from masturbation and their partner does not measure up. It is also addictive.
As with anything else, if a person still struggles with any confusion about it in their heart, simply pray and God will reveal His will to you. After wondering, I had a dream in which God told me it was a filthy habit and I left it at that.
Taken from Esharingportal.com Click or copy to Browser:-
http://www.esharingportal.com/viewstory.php?sid=5&chapter=1
In any church service or Cell Group Meeting, there ought to have people going there for the wrong purpose. Some go there for the sack of recording attendant. Some go there for the purpose of getting to know girl. Both cases are going there for the WRONG selfish purposes. It is better for the person to stay at home and gives prayer to our Lord Jesus for forgiveness. Going to Church Service or Cell Group meeting should be for oneself commitment to Our Lord Jesus for Prayer, learning and Fellowshipping.
Why it is wrong to go after a Girl (or lust for man?) in Church Service or Cell Group Meeting?
Mattew 5:27 “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery”
Mattew 5:28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
Some people may say that this is a preventive measure. For all that we already knew, many adultery cases started from the thought within the offender. He lusts for the woman. He has desire for her. And while this desire dwell within a person’s mind, the wildest and lustful imagination starts from within his sinful mind and eventually it builds up to the level where the individual takes action to take advantage of the woman he likes. In the first place, if there was no lust, ie. there was no looking at a woman and lust after her, then wrongful intention to possess her, adultery, molest or rape would not have taken place. So, the individual who is to attend Church or Cell Group meeting for the purpose of finding love mate is putting SELF on top of our Lord Jesus and this person will not be focusing on Biblical learning value. He is completely distracted in trying to achieve his purpose of coming to the meeting. He will be Jealous, Disappointed, Bittered and even resort to doing things that is not in accordance with Christian Cultural value to try to get his wants.
So friends, come to the Church Service or Cell Group Meeting with a Pure Clean Mind, ie for only one Purpose: -
“To worship God, our Lord Jesus only!” Focus on Lord Jesus Christ only and all Good things will cometh unto you.
Pray that your state of Mind, your Soul will be brought to the place of Sanctuary, where everyone is equal, everyone is neither marry nor are given in marriage, but like angels in heaven, all come together for the sole purpose of worshipping God our Lord Jesus. Amen, Hallelujah !
Mark 12:25 “For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.”
Note: “For those with lustful thoughts, they should pray for removal of these “lusts” by confession to Our Lord Jesus, even days before attending Church or Cell Group Meeting.”
As mentioned by many comments, “How can one masturbate without lustful thoughts.” Scroll up and see my other post.
Masturbation is alright for those who go to lap or laboratory for donation? There is no lustful thought? I happened to heard from one friend who actually went to be a sperm donor. Don’t ask me which clinic or hospital, I have forgotten, many years ago. He said that the nurse actually gave him “SEXY magazine” to look at before his turn to donate. Movies even make fun of this episode by showing how the nurse got involved in playing the role of “helping the sperm donor” by wearing sexily and so on… So what is the purpose of giving out this magazine? Inducing lustfuls thoughts, I guessed. So many are self justifying that they did not sin because they donate sperm to sperm bank?
The evil one, Shadow of Darkness had tried many times to put seductive events in my dream but I rebuked it in Jesus name. woke up, continue to pray and I don’t have these kind of dream anymore. I have been very thankful for Lord Jesus to had died for my sins and gave me our Holy Spirit so that I can have pure thoughts in me. I do asked “Why Lord Jesus allowed the evil one to plant weeds in my mind?” The answer? He helped me to conqueror over lusts. And I am very happy to see that some people here had the same experience of receiving “the treatment of lust by way of dream” I thank Lord Jesus for his loving and caring me as his son, he helped me to steer away from lusts completely. Hallelujah!
To those who claimed that masturbation cannot be done without lustful thought, or let’s simply use: porn (can be either subtle/soft/hardcore), try do this (pardon my literal expression): in a fit condition (not after work very hard or fatigue condition) rub your hands around/at your genitalia gently to arouse yourself. You can think about math or other difficult problem at the same time. If you’re physically/sexually normal/healthy, there’s a big chance you will reach orgasm, sooner or later.
Yes, there is BIG connection between lust/porn with masturbation and it’s not denied that it’s the problem or sin. It’s even been identified. But to claim it’s impossible is simply ignoring a simple, proven, testable, and dare I say, do-it-yourself-testable fact. It’s only biological.
A very good article but I want to object to one sentence. Why we Christians always insert our own ideas when we relate Biblical events? Just tell it as it is written. Then later state what you think of it, clearly mentioning it is your opinion about it. I am talking about this sentence in the article. “Instead of doing that, he took advantage of his sister-in-law, Tamar, for his own sexual gratification, but didn’t want the responsibility to father her a child.” Bible never said he took advantage of his sister-in-law for his own sexual gratification. That sounds horrible but the truth is he merely married his sister-in-law as required by the tradition. His sin was trying to avoid having a baby with his sister-in-law, thats all.
@amirbudicecep: A very good explanation but Orgasm means the point where one release/ejaculates. It is very true that we will gain erection sometimes even without the thought of it, like example inside an air-conditioned bus or whatsoever, but that is it. This is just a natural bodily reaction. The function is in-built. However, Masturbation goes a step deeper into this function. Masturbation requires deliberate rubbing of the genital areas until orgasm is reached. Also, even if you do not ejaculate doesn’t mean you are not masturbating. It is still masturbation. Do you know that for guys and girls, the moment you have deliberatly start to Masturbate, the process of reaching orgasm is already on the way? You just need to masturbate till the ‘ right moment’ or when the fluid is reaching the ‘exit’ (if you know what I mean, that is :) ).
Sorry about such elaborate explanation as I embraced the term Masturbation and although I am not a Christian, I would just wana share this very interesting topic to all of you!
@IndianGuy: Yes, true. I am just sharing with you what I have found out in my studies. The Holy Bible that modern Christians used (with the King James version as the dominant version around the world) is actually a very, very interesting religious book that have been re-written and vetted and filtered so many times that many people have doubts on whether which details are the originals and which are amended time and time again over the centuries. In my own view, you can no longer say that the Holy Bible is the original book written to chronicle what Jesus (and the God/Holy Spirits) had mentioned to the various disciples stated in the modern Holy Bible. There are some parts of the Bible that actually were written in order to regulate laws for Christians… I fyou read carefully (some are even ‘the-so-called-threats’ to followers such that one is not allowed to do this or that, not allowed to re-write it again, if not they will be punishable by God.) I don’t think that is written by the original writers. Seriously. And this is just one small example in the Bible. If you do not believe, you may turn to the final part of the Revelation pages.
What I believe is the human mind that control our destiny and interact with the Great One (most often referred to as God or the All Supreme One). All impossibles are achieved by Human Beings through the believe in the ‘God’, the ‘Creator’. It doesn’t matter which god/(s) you believe in, as it is ultimately your mind that decide how you will be through your own belief. Once you place a strong faith in it, you can make use of this to fulfil the impossible. It cannot be proven by Science but it will be one day. This strong beliefs will trigger yourself to achieve what you really want to happen. I don’t wanna explain in detail as I think it may be quite irrelevant here.
But what I’m trying to convey is: No matter what faith you guys have now (or in future), you gotta believe in what you believe in really and all things can be overcomed. And it really doesn’t matter what you do in life as long as you know that what you are doing harms no one (including yourself) and is not against moral rights, you are doing fine and everything comes in full circle. Everything… … Yes, bad things do happen over and over again, but they are just life challenges. They will be replaced by the Good definitely, just that both Goods and Bads will often arise in the least expected moments. So believe in it. Nothing is perfect in this world, so is our life. So, accept it, and place a strong faith in what you believe in and you will have a fulfilling life ahead I promise :)
Nice day.
I.N.
@Another: I believe you are a Christian and have read through the bible before and have prior understanding to it. Why don’t you define what ‘Lust’ means in the 7 sins?
Yes, trivial stuffs like excreting waste, urinating, drinking water are normal. They do not involved lust. But Masturbation do involve lust, like it or not, it is just the way nature wants it to be in order to successfully complete the ‘Masturbation process’ :)
Thanks for clarifying these issues. I grew up in a very conservative church and my leaders then will often brush off such questions as sin and did not wish to elaborate. Anything that most of the leaders cannot understand or explain, they will declare it as sin. Your article has been most informative and beneficial.
“But if you are someone who masturbates in a nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic way and you are single, it is not a sin.”
Just how does one masturbate without conjuring up some sexual images of woman to get an erection? Masturbation without lust?
“99% of boys do it and the other 1% are lying. If we tell boys it is wrong and that God disapproves, what happens to those who aren’t able to stop?
They can be taught to stop by strengthening their spirit and overcoming the fleshly desire.
Most gays claim they are born like that they cannot overcome the desire and they hate themselves and think God hate them too. What should we do? Tell them it’s ok?
If homosexuality can be overcome and changed why not masturbation. It’s exactly articles like this that encourage young boys do it and excuse themselves.
How on earth is it possible to masturbate without lust? Has anyone done it before?
guys. with all due respects to all your comments, its nice to really hear the many different point of views from each of you. but the fact of the matter is, all Pastor Kong is bringing up is its mostly fact based and very little of his opinions. do any of you dare say all Christian males are free from this bondage? He neither encourages it, nor condemns its really up to your own perception if its good or not. All he’s doing is bringing up what others have said and added some references and a little of his own opinions.
in our conservative society, how many pastors out there have the confidence enough to really bring up this matter? it takes alot of confidence in his own spirituality to voice out such a problem as this. do people in Singapore even admit that they masturbate frequently?
many of you condemn what he has written and voice your calls for him to step down, recheck his spirituality and so on. but did any of you consider how he’s actually telling people to check whether they’re addicted to it?
if you really feel what he said is really bad, do leave your opinions. but as for the negative comments, do remember that if you were on that receiving end, you wouldn’t like it either would you?
Bert on August 6th, 2009 1:25 am
“guys. with all due respects to all your comments, its nice to really hear the many different point of views from each of you. but the fact of the matter is, all Pastor Kong is bringing up is its mostly fact based and very little of his opinions. do any of you dare say all Christian males are free from this bondage? ”
That’s not the point. Just because most Christians males have done it before doesn’t mean we can say it’s alright. I have done it before that doesn’t mean I cannot say it’s wrong.
I have watched pornography before, who haven’t, does that mean I should condone it?
Just like many Christians commits adultery, does it mean they should say adultery is allowed?
Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
Is it possible to masturbate to the glory of God??!!
If you guys are talking about masturbate to the glory to the glory to God, there’s no way and unless you are in a Pagan religion, it is a taboo to be done in religions that operates differently from other religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism (They are inter-related anyways…).
Yes, Kong is stating that as a personal view, on his personal blog, most probably doing his own personal research and share with his friends and his church’s mates… (Like I’ve mentioned before). But a common misconception with whatever he have written with some people are that, “Pastor Kong have mentioned it, so the Church should be more open-minded by now”… If that is what they are thinking, then it defeat a purpose of believing in Christ, God or religion. You guys should understand why I meant by that. Of course, you will say that it will not have effect on all. But in fact it is indirectly giving wrong information should some misread or did not read more in-depth and understand the purpose of any entries that he have written…
‘Many people speaks with underlying messages’
Anyway, to end off, As our society modernises, we can introduce modern stuffs to our religions (such as what modern churches did with holding services in a concert-styled method to attract more people to attend, and in the hope of attracting them to believe in Christianity). But there are some things that must be left unchanged. You guys figure out yourself and maybe share it and state which of the values must be Christians stick with regardless of which era you guys are in right now. This applies to other religions… You may introduce a Lamborghini to a Christian, but you can never introduce fraud or dishonesty to one, even though such a thing had happened in many places in the modern world society, including religious leaders, businessman, etc… …
I think that it’s a grey thing. Cos it depends on other factors for this act. Personally for me, usually i do it when i feel good about myself and once a week. I even feel the peace of God. However, there are times when i watch porn for stimulation and i imagine stuff while masturbating. In this manner, i feel horrible and the peace is just not there. I think it’s a personal thing. Don’t feel condemned, get rid of all your thoughts and listen to what God’s got to say. If He says now is not the right time then listen to Him, you’ll feel the peace the next morning and glad didn’t do it. However, if He says its okay then trust your spirit man. Who’s to judge God? He’s not predictable anyway. I’m a female btw.
And to those who say people cannot masturbate without lust, i have to disagree.
Waouwww Pastor, the first time i know this topic, this is a very powerfull for me. And i will teach to my sel group about this.
Keep in Power Pastor!!
2 Timothy 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
1 Corinthians 6:12
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1 Corinthians 10:23
23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.
What does “youthful lusts” refer to? Is it not possible that it includes masturbation?
Pastor Kong, the only weight you have in many of your articles is your 25,000-30,000 strong congregation, material success and popularity etc. I just can’t argue with that!
“Theologically, the Scripture is relatively silent about it although its practice stretches back to biblical times. None of the verses above outrightly name masturbation as a sin.”
Pastor Kong, can you quote me a verse that clearly forbids gambling, lottery, pornonography, drugs use/abuse, cigarette etc?
So if the Bible doesn’t clearly forbid these, it’s up to personal preference?
Also polygamy was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER condemned as sin in the Bible. As a matter of fact Jacob, David, Solomon were polygamists and God NEVER once rebuked them except in the case of Solomon but it was because he was led astray to idolatry. If Jacob didn’t marry 4 wives there wouldn’t have been 2 tribes in Israel.
I think this blog should either be rewritten or deleted. It’s misleading people and gives city harvest church a bad name. Just need to swallow your pride and do it.
If you have no good reason to be disgusted, don’t start telling people what they should do. it’s better to be open about issues than judge-mental.
Galatians 5:7-9
“You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?…..A little leaven leavens the whole lump”
Stop giving the devil a foothold to work.
This blog is embarrassing yourself and the church.
uhm, no, that’s not how u justify yourself. In that way, i can also pick just any verse without understanding the full meaning and stick it here. Which i’m not about to do, cause it just insults the bible.
“What is my personal opinion regarding masturbation? Theologically, the Scripture is relatively silent about it although its practice stretches back to biblical times. None of the verses above outrightly name masturbation as a sin. As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out.”
“1. Pornography. Pornography has long been condemned and prohibited in the belief that it depraves and corrupts both minors and adults, and that it leads to the commission of sex crimes. Pornography is often used hand-in-hand with masturbation to stimulate the imagination as well as the genitals. In a Kinsey Institute survey, 72% of the respondents said they used porn to masturbate for physical release.”
How do you reconcile the above 2 passage? If you replace the word “masturbation” with “pornography” it should be true too. I guess?
What is my personal opinion regarding “pornography”? Theologically, the Scripture is relatively silent about it although its practice stretches back to biblical times. None of the verses above outrightly name “pornography” as a sin. As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out.
i have a testimony to share.
i was engaged to masturbation at a very young age ( 6yrs old) due to some influence that i can know no longer trace back.
fact is, i felt guilty, dirty and unholy.
as much as magazines would tell me it is normal and as much as i try to convince myself that it is, there was still this silent cry in my heart for something to change.
because it is normal (in the world) that such things be done because of a stimuli, i read porn(stories) so as to fit into the norm.
which as you have guessed, brought me deeper into sin.
to thepoint that it was a foothole that the devil was allowed to control in my life.
when i was 13yrs old, i accepted Christ into my life and knew that my body was a HOLY TEMPLE of GOD.NOT TO BE DEFILED.SCARED AND IMPORTANT.
IT WAS THEN THAT I STARTED THE SPIRITUAL BATTLE AGAINST IT. ALWAYS REBUKING WHEN A THOUGHT LED ME TO WANT TO SIN.
what i am trying to say is that MASTURBATION is not how we shld treat the temple of God.and many of us feel guiltyfor doing it.
YES , THERE IS A SOULTION AND A WAY TO REMOVE THAT GUILT. BUT IT COMES FROM THE LIBERATION THROUGH GOD’S POWER TO BREAK IT.NOT BY CONVINCING OURSELVES IT IS ALRIGHT, CAUSE I TRIED THAT . AND IT DIDNT WORK. CAUSE THE SPIRIT OF GOD JUST WONT LET ME.
AND WHAT COMES WHEN WE SAY TO GOD GIVE US GRACE TO REPENT AND TRULY REPENT ,GOD WILL SANCTIFY US. AND WE CAN FEEL IT! RESTORING US TO WHO WE ARE MEANT TO BE IN HIS EYES.
(CAUSE WE KNOW FULL WELL IT IS WRONG( if its right, why not do it infront of the congre? SINCE THERE ISNT ANYTHING WRONG ISNT IT?))- not to be rude but to state my point my effectively.
anyway, CHRISTIANS, we all know that sometimes by acident or intentionally scriptures are manipulated . therefore, let me introduce you to a web, back uped with verses and you judge for yourself?http://www.gotquestions.org/masturbation-sin.html
afterall, it is your life and let us be sure of what we are doing with it. dont be so closed minded, be humble and check out the other side of it. God’s word never condemns but points out the Truth from the lies , providing edfication.
urge you bros and sis,to test the spirit behind every matter and dont deceive yourself , if you know you need to repent, be honest with God,John 3.16 – He is not here to condemn but to show you the way to the Father. and thereby meaning, to show you how to be His Child.
“What is my personal opinion regarding masturbation? Theologically, the Scripture is relatively silent about it although its practice stretches back to biblical times. None of the verses above outrightly name masturbation as a sin. As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out.”
Pastor Kong, according to your argument pornography is also acceptable since it’s never outrightly named as sin!! Below are also true:
If one is able to watch pornography without lust but as enetrtainment it should be ok. As long as it doesn’t lead to sexual crime such as rape.
The “advantage” of pornography is it teach people different ways of making love like 69, doggie style and whatnot instead of “boring” traditional “missionary style”. M sure your theology doesn’t condemn oral sex too since it’s not outrightly condemned in the Bible.
Besides we Christian must fulfill the “Cultural Mandate” and move into every area of human life according to you. There are hundreds of millions of people watching pornography so Christians should engage them so that they can reached.
Since it’s natural for man to admire beautiful women it shouldn’t be a sin to appreciate naked beautiful bodies of women as they are created by God. We are only admiring God’s creation.
Note: There is no such thing as “Cultural Mandate”. It’s a terminology invented by you to justify whatever lifestyle of yours.
I know of young people who have the “inner peace” to watch uncensored adult movies; or sleep around, and they think it’s ok as long as no one gets hurt. Their logic: we’re not to blame because we’re wired that way and we can’t help it.
Is it right to allow our “inner peace” be our guide in making choices?
Hi there
I can understand the Pastor’s heart that many people can feel overwhelemed and burdened with sexual urges and overcome with guilt after they have indulged.
There’s mercy but then there’s truth as well:
“Mercy and truth have met together; Righteousness and peace have kissed each other,” (Psalms 85:10).
Jesus said to deny self, take up your cross and follow him.
Church leaders need to be very careful what they teach, they will be judged with a higher standard than everyone else.
What one generation allows the next will enjoy, the next generation of pastors might say that soft porn is okay.
How does a young person overcome the really strong temptation:
Grace – Titus 2:11-12 “For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say no to ungodliness and worldy passions and to live self-controlled upright and godly lives in this present age”.
I find it disturbing that these Pastors are letting the standards degenerate, if they don’t repent apostacy is not too far away.
Grace is not a license to sin, if you do fall however you have an advocate – Jesus
Hi Pastor, I find your article very useful. For me, I think that it’s really based on your own conviction. It may be wrong to some or it may be right to some. Personally for me, I feel that if it open up the doors in leading to sins, we should shut the door. That’s to make sure my life may be holy and just towards the Lord. I find that masturbation actually starts from the mind. The more you think about doing it, the more you will engage in it. Thus the mind is very powerful in making up images in which you will feel lustful about. Masturbation is really starting off from raging hormones but I still feel its something which I don’t want to engage in cause I don’t feel peace by doing it. And that what we should search for: The Peace of God. So it does not matter whether it is a sin or not cause the Bible does not clearly states it, but what matters is whether there is a peace in your heart when doing it.
this is really a controversial topic!
I almost spent 30 minutes just reading the comments of the people… haha!
I just want to say that I love God and I love people as myself…
anytime the way of love is violated, I should stand up and fight for God’s cause… like what Jesus did.
right?
with regardsto masturbation…
Pastor Kong is right…
“the jury is still out!”
if God would want to give us the answer then He would have revealed it to us right now… haha!
God bless everyone!
Love ya’ll! Peace,
Thank Pastor Kong for taking the time to write such a comprehensive essay.
Even though aspect is being covered, but some people simply have to put comments to bring another people down by using unwise or discouraging words and blaming you because it make them ponder back again. I myself respect you for taking such a bold step to write such topic. N i believe is very wise for you to throw back to the question to us regarding “M”. After all how can a man deemed that “M” is a sin when the holy bible did not specifically labeled it as sin.
But like what you say if such action make us drift away from God, make us feel dirty, then i believe it have go against the inner peace of God in our heart. Is not easy and every time i have deceive myself and just give in temptation but deep in my heart i know is wrong and therefore i would personally labeled it a sin. But other people just refused to get go of such temporary ‘enjoyment’ hence try all sort of comment (referring to minority) to re-convinced themselves that is ‘okay’. But if you search deeper into your heart, you know is wrong. SO why should we keep demanding Pastor Kong to give us a clear cut conclusion When you do it and feel the deep stirring in your heart,When you can no longer concentrating on mediate God’s word, isn’t this the answer God have given you.
Hi Pastor Kong, thanks for touching on such a sensitive and controversial topic, it’s about time someone took a stand. I would like to say Im impressed and you have certainly made a good point and justification. :)
Just wanna post my own views.
As male, sexual drive is something we have no control over, different people born with different testosterone levels experience different degrees of arousal or just the ‘craving’ lingering over time during a young adolescent age.
Afterall, God did program the male biology, the way it is. So in the first place, we are in no position to say, “Why are guys sexually driven more than females?” etc..
As for masturbation, well, its not dependent on just the act alone, but the motive and the heart.
Is it possible to masturbate without having any lust? Definitely. If not, all sperm donors would be ‘condemned’.
Another example would be to masturbate in front of a plant or a pig. Can the male still experience release? Yes. But with a plant? With a pig? Doesnt make sense now does it? Does it mean the male is sexually aroused by a plant or a pig? Certainly not. It’s definitely not classified then, under ‘unnatural lust’.
A male can sleep, unknowing ‘rub’ against a bolster or a pillow and have an ‘accidental discharge’ at night. Is he lusting after a bolster, while asleep and unconscious? I dont think so.
Outside the context of marriage, I believe balance is the key. Masturbation should never with combined with pornographic images or mental fantasies. Agreed.
When the ‘urge’ is built up over periods of time, without a proper channel to ‘release’, most guys end up having another ‘phenomenon’ known as wet dreams. Just as how females undergo menstruation, a male’s sexual organs are likewise active as well.
Menstruation involves shedding of blood, and no one made any comment since the bible mentioned about the shedding of blood.
Males are different, in a way, sexual release or sexual changes while growing up, is not fully-automatic, you dont stand there, count to 10, or wait one month and ‘it’ comes out, why did God make it this way? We dont know, and most probably, we will never know until we meet Him.
Whereas in the context of marriage, I believe the spouses should meet each other’s deepest needs. There shouldnt even be a need for masturbation ‘as far as possible’. Both parties should come to an agreement since as a couple, you are a team and we should behave like one.
Having said all, that is why we have the Holy Spirit, to teach us what is right what is wrong. Our conscience is a very powerful tool. The important thing is to be led, to live by faith since anything not of faith is sin.
Whether masturbation is right or wrong, its up to the individual’s relationship with God. What has God spoken to you, where is He directing you, etc.
Just as not all are called to be single all their life, with regards to personal issues like these, I agree with you that let each one be led by the Spirit, ‘for as many as those who are led by the Spirit, these are the sons of God.’
If we need answers, every believer should be going back to the Word and inquiring of God for Himself. No one is perfect, not all explanations are perfect.
At the end of the day, we are accountable to God. If we are smart, I believe we should make things right with God as a priority, and not with imperfect people.
Still .. this is a great entry, the best Ive seen, regarding this topic so far!
God bless!
By the way, someone typed a few entries ago, “How did Jesus sexually relieve Himself? How did He deal with His adolescence?” Or something like that.
Afterall, He IS 100% God and 100% man.
He still has…well…’that’.
Well, does anyone even dare to be be the first to ask Him?
No. I dont think so. :)
Are we trying to fit God into us or Are we trying to fit us into God..
Right it right. Wrong is wrong.. I think we all have a brain and a heart to be a sorta measure in us to know what is really right or wrong in Him.. or else there wont even be such a topic or so much discussion.. Why we are even talking about this is because we knew it is wrong, but instead of trying to fight it, we are just finding excuse to allow it.
“The eyes see and the ears hear what the heart and/or the mind is looking for”. We tend to pick out what we wanna, and give solid reasons, excuse, justification and etc on our action for our desires. If that is the case, where is Christ!
Just a fruit for thought! We don’t condemn, but we don’t condone either.
Hi Pastor,
Came across this article which you wrote on this topic. Although in the article you did not clearly state whether masturbation is right or wrong. But i believed it is clearly wrong. Probably the reason for not stating clearly is for those who are addicted to masturation, not feel condemn and turn away from God. I need to admit i struggle with this once in a while. I love my wife and kid. However due to the ecezma my wife has, we are often unable to enjoy our sex life as she feels uncomfortable always due to her condition. I would be able to control the urge for a certain period of time but fell once in a while (perhaps once a month). Everytime i does it, i felt condemned that i’ve failed God again. However at the same time my flesh is justifying to say that there’s nothing wrong with this. I felt trapped at times and limiting my destiny. Not sure if there’s a way to overcome this.
Annoynamous
As per my experience, one needs to die to flesh, which is only possible with the help of Holy Spirit. And if anyone is completely dependent upon Holy Spirit, there will be no desire to gratify the flesh.
“I think originally sex was created by God between male and female for the purpose of procreation. It was never intended for personal gratification.”
Assuming the female pleasure/orgasm is not necessary for procreation, why the female clitoris? Was the clitoris a mistake? The sole purpose of the clitoris is pleasure and pleasure only!
_____________________
“And if anyone is completely dependent upon Holy Spirit, there will be no desire to gratify the flesh.”
Is an “over-eating-addiction” leading to obesity and a unhealthy body/lifestyle a “desire to gratify the flesh” therefore sinful?
_____________________
Please consider a husband and wife separated by time and distance, who fantasizes about their spouse & masturbates. Is that sinful?
Is Biblical “lust” always sinful?
If a husband or wife “lusts” after his/her spouse, is that biblically sinful?
Pastor, thanks for discussing masturbation and the Bible.
It’s depend of one’s intensions, if one’s doing those things, playing his pennis with his hands and on his mind he’s thinking that there is a beautiful naked woman which is not his wife and having sex with her in his mind, he commited sin. (Mathew 5:28)
we have to control ourselves in doing wrong with the eyes of our Creator..
In the prosperity gospel, also known as the “Word of Faith,” the believer is told to use God, whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer. Word of Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God’s will. The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church. Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to or conciliatory with the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them.
Paul warned Timothy about such men in 1 Timothy 6:5, 9-11. These men of “corrupt mind” supposed godliness was a means of gain and their desire for riches was a trap that brought about them “into ruin and destruction” (v. 9). The pursuit of wealth is a dangerous path for Christians and one which God warns about: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs” (v. 10). If riches were a reasonable goal for the godly, Jesus would have pursued it. But He did not, preferring instead to have no place to lay His head (Matthew 8:20) and teaching His disciples to do the same. It should also be remembered that the only disciple concerned with wealth was Judas.
Paul said covetousness is idolatry (Ephesians 5:5) and instructed the Ephesians to avoid anyone who brought a message of immorality or covetousness (Ephesians 5:6-7). Prosperity teaching prohibits God from working on His own, meaning that God is not Lord of all because He cannot work until we release Him to do so. Faith, according to the Word of Faith doctrine, is not submissive trust in God; faith is a formula by which we manipulate the spiritual laws that prosperity teachers believe govern the universe. As the name “Word of Faith” implies, this movement teaches that faith is a matter of what we say more than who we trust or what truths we embrace and affirm in our hearts.
Instead of stressing the importance of wealth, the Bible warns against pursuing it. Believers, especially leaders in the church (1 Timothy 3:3), are to be free from the love of money (Hebrews 13:5). The love of money leads to all kinds of evil (1 Timothy 6:10). Jesus warned, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions” (Luke 12:15). In sharp contrast to the Word of Faith emphasis on gaining money and possessions in this life, Jesus said, “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal” (Matthew 6:19). The irreconcilable contradictions between prosperity teaching and the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is best summed up in the words of Jesus in Matthew 6:24, “You cannot serve both God and money.”
Dear Kong Hee, I beg of you, enough of false preachings. The prosperity gospel that you embrace is total HERESY!
Please stop misleading your already misguided flock with all this trash preachings. You are a complete fake just like the Prince guy.
Stop justifying your actions just becos you masturbate frequently
Masturbation IS A SIN PERIOD!!!
a good explanation on the topic, giving insights to people. But i will still stand by my choice that masturbation is sin. What ps kong saying is that people can think about sexual thingy now and then, but ps kong, i disagree on some of you view. to me, as a christian we need to be stern to sin matter. sin is sin. and well, in my opinion, masturbation is a for m of sin, that destroys the mental and spiritual lige of people.
anw, thanks for the blog :)
From my point of view i think masturbation without thinking of sexual thoughts, should be okay.
Thank you Pastor
now i know whether masturbation is a sin or not
better watch what you say!
how do you he masturbates frequently.
just because you don’t put your name does not mean you cant be charged for libel.
remember ip addresses can be traced.
Fenny
just want to clarify something… why pursuing wealth is wrong? if it is wrong, why do u even bother to work for money for a living and why bother to work hard and gain a promotion to get pay increment? why pple bother to complain if others get bonus and they do not?
pursuing wealth to me is not equal to loving money. as u quoted, love of money is the root of all evil. Pursuing wealth n being rich do not equate to loving money. If you pursue higher study , does it mean u love to study? if u pursue for higher promotion in your company, does it mean u love power? being famous , does it mean u love popularity? wat’s so wrong about being rich? wat’s so wrong about desiring riches as long as money doesnt rule my actions and doesnt take the place of God. Being rich enables me to reach out to poorer people, being rich enables me to sow a bigger seed to the kingdom of God, being rich enables me to go more often for mission trips to bless the people in other countries. So many goodness about being rich and u meant to say God doesnt want us to stress on pursue riches?
forgive me if i do not know the prosperity message, but what u quoted sound unright and also u do not base on one verse “the love of money is root of all evil” and trying to say that God doesnt want us to be rich or pursue riches. Do read up the whole bible and not base on one verse n trying to create a whole doctrine out of it. Not sure about u, but i have read the whole bible at least 7-9 times.. i dont even dare to challenge a pastor who is well verse in the word of God and anointed by God. Most importantly, did you pray over this and God spoke to you and tell you this so call prosperity message is wrong?
lastly, if God doesnt want us to be rich(note i didnt say LOVE MONEY), there wont be a verses in the bible such as “Corinthians 8:9 (New King James Version) For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.
Dont try to tell me the meaning of poor and the meaning of rich here refer to other context n not money… cos to me, God is a simple God, and a God who wants us to know him not through watever deep doctrine but simply He is a God who loves us and wants the best for us. God being our Abba Father wanting good gifts for us… will he rather us be poor? have some common sense plse.
forgive me if i sound harsh.. cos to me , Fenny, u sound unright and also its weird that u raise this topic about money when Pastor Kong is talking about masturbation. Lets learn to flow with the holy spirit…