| What is postmodernism? Should Christians and churches that are more contemporary in their worship and ministry style be immediately labeled as “postmodern”? Is it a total godless, secularization of society and the Church? More specifically, is City Harvest becoming postmodern in its quest to be culturally relevant? |
| Postmodernism is a period of thought and ideology that comes after the Modern Era. Modernity is considered to be a period of thought in Europe that was developed out of the Renaissance (14th-17th century) and thrived in the Enlightenment (17th-19th century). It was a time of significant development in the fields of science, politics, warfare and technology. Postmodernism is a reaction to that period. By definition, postmodernism literally means “after modernity.” Today, society at large is facing a surge toward greater postmodernist thinking, whether it realizes it or not. |
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Modernism, as an ideology, represents a rationalization and categorization of the social world. In the modern worldview, everything in life can, and should, be interpreted rationally. Science and logic have attained such preeminence in all public discourses that everything must be explained through their lenses. All that is unscientific must be rejected. According to the modern worldview, science and faith can never mix since the latter deals with the realm of the unexplainable. Because knowledge and intelligence are inordinately exalted, modernists invariably become elitist in their categorization of society. An example is Adolf Hitler who believed in the absolute supremacy of the Aryan race over all other races. Six million Jews were exterminated in the Holocaust because in Hitler’s “scientific analysis,” they didn’t deserve a place in the civilized world. |
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Postmodernism, on the other hand, challenges those presuppositions and beliefs of the Modern Age. It seeks to radically reinterpret what is currently classified as generally accepted knowledge. To a postmodernist, concepts such as right and wrong, good and bad, or what is true and false are not absolutes but changeable from culture to culture, and situation to situation. As such, postmodernism represents cultural and ethical relativism regarding truth, reality, reason, value, linguistic meaning, art, architecture, and every other form of social life. The dogmatist, or anyone who believes in an ultimate truth, is considered abhorrent and dangerous. |
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As a worldview, postmodernism detests the stereotyping of social classes according to sex, race, age, etc. In reaction to what it perceives as the snooty prejudice of the modernists, it appreciates and especially empathizes with the marginalized. It rejects the chauvinism and oppression exerted by any gender, group or cause over others (white vs. black, men vs. women, rich vs. poor, educated vs. illiterate, able vs. disabled, religious vs. nonreligious, etc.). It seeks to champion the plight of the growing population of those socially marginalized or ostracized. |
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Postmodernism is most widely accepted and respected within the architectural framework. Take the Guggenheim Museum Bilbao in Spain, designed by the renowned architect, Frank Gehry. Instead of designing the building in a straightforward and logical scheme, Gehry wanted to challenge the prevalent accepted principles of architecture. There is no straight line in the building because every wall is curved. Every angle you look from gives you a new perspective of the building. No two photographs of the Guggenheim ever look the same. And because it is sited by a river, the titanium façade reflects various shades of color throughout the day. The result of all these is that no one can lay claim to an absolute image of the museum. It is relative to the viewing position and the time of the day. With its absence of visual absolutes, the Guggenheim is considered an embodiment of the concept of postmodernism. |
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| The concept of postmodernism is also expressed in the realm of art. This is especially true in the case of an early 20th-century art movement known as Dada, which promoted the concepts of questioning previously established norms in art. Although it affected literature, theater and graphic design, the movement is most highly recognized for its impact in drastically challenging the fundamental precepts of fine art. A piece of art that exemplifies its concept is Fountain by a prominent Dadaist artist of that time, Marcel Duchamp. |
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Fountain is simply a common human waste receptacle. To a modernist, the receptacle is merely a functional, scientific instrument to dispose waste. Taking an object that is generally considered filthy and worthless, Duchamp converted it into an expensive art piece. He instilled value to an object most would consider valueless. Duchamp wanted to prove a point: by fabricating art and getting society to regard it as meaningful, we can increase its worth and value. This encapsulates the significant difference between a postmodernist and modernist society. While modernists place a greater value on the intrinsic, postmodernists place a greater value on the extrinsic. With his art piece, Duchamp showed that in a postmodern world, truth is no longer dependent on its intrinsic value (a common, filthy receptacle); it depends extrinsically on how society defines it (an expensive piece of fine art). |
| As with any ideological system or ism, there are positive and negative aspects we can glean from postmodernism: |
| Positive Aspects of Postmodernism |
| 1. |
Because postmodernism has a disdain for what it sees as the arrogant absoluteness of science and logic, it makes room for the possibility of faith and the supernatural. Science and faith can coexist. |
| 2. |
Postmodernism is empathetic toward the marginalized and the oppressed, believing that value can be added to those whom may be considered worthless. It is in this context that more pastors and church leaders today are beginning to consider themselves as “postmodern Christians.”
(www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/november13/7.74.html) |
| 3. |
It allows a greater tolerance between beliefs, and potentially opens avenues for the Great Commission through a greater love and acceptance for non-Christians. |
| 4. |
It allows for freedom of opinion in one’s perspectives regarding “truths” that are relative or non-absolute. It makes one less judgmental and condemning toward behaviors, styles and personal preferences that may be less conventional. It is the antidote to self-righteous Pharisaism. |
| 5. |
It allows for greater empathy toward a society that is increasingly pluralistic, challenging us not to be out of touch with how people think and function today. |
| 6. |
The concepts of control, power and certainty are replaced with love, stewardship and faith. |
| 7. |
Postmodernism allows for more openness to spiritual and emotional truths, and epistemology (theory of knowledge) that goes beyond the constraints of science, logic and reason. |
| Negative Aspects of Postmodernism |
| 1. |
Postmodernism is skeptical regarding all claims of truth. Taken to an extreme, it is hostile toward those who claim to know absolute truths. Postmodernists can become strongly opposed to those who believe in the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible. German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900) argues that those who accept the Judeo-Christian ethical system, which he calls a “slave morality,” suffer from weak and fearful personalities. A different and stronger sort of person, he says, would reject this ethic and create his own values. |
| 2. |
Postmodernism views all claims to knowledge as equally valid, regardless of the obvious preposterousness in certain claims (for example, “I do not exist”). |
| 3. |
Postmodernism views the individual solely as a construct of society. As such, the responsibility of the individual to live a life according the Word of God is diminished. |
| 4. |
A person who questions other beliefs with regards to factuality is considered intolerant. |
| 5. |
Propositional truth, or truth that is discovered, is considered inexistent. Instead, only a society’s position, not an individual’s, is considered valid. But what if slavery, genocide, or the physical abuse of women are condoned and considered “right” by the standards of a society? Does it make them right? Without an objective standard to morality, cultural and ethical relativism can lead to horrendous consequences in a society. |
| 6. |
Postmodernists often view progress, be it scientific, educational, political, etc., as detrimental. Progress equates to the domination of the marginal. |
| 7. |
Tolerance toward every belief, except toward those who feel that their beliefs are more significant than others. The paradox here is that in their zeal to promote tolerance, postmodernists themselves can become very intolerant of those who don’t share their own postmodern views. |
| The Christian Reaction/Response to Postmodernism |
| As with most cases, Christians must take a moderate stance toward postmodernism, absorbing the positive aspects while rejecting the negative. We don’t subscribe to the ideology that individuals are merely a product of society alone, or that truths should be determined by a collective group of individuals. And while opinions are important, we do hold on to the absolutes found in the Holy Scripture, and do not waver in conviction when it comes to the moral law and the basic tenets of our faith. |
| However, having said that, Christians have the tendency to veer toward Pharisaism and legalism. Self-righteous conservatism seeks to keep the Church isolated, sanitized and out of touch with contemporary society. My own position on this is: on matters that are absolute (Ten Commandments, the Apostles’ Creed, etc.), let us be absolute. But on matters that are non-absolute (wine-drinking, tattooing, pop culture, etc.), let us allow for freedom that is in Jesus Christ (Gal. 5:1). |
| A major contribution of postmodernism is the newfound appreciation toward the marginalized, and those previously considered insignificant. This is totally in line with the love God has toward the poor, needy, broken and abused (Is. 58:10, Luke 4:18-19, James 2:14-17).
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| Postmodernism should provoke those who are afraid of embracing a “social gospel” to have a greater relationship, respect and ministry with the hurting and wounded in the world. Tolerance is not an evil word. As Christians, we must hold on to the moral conviction of God’s Word in our hearts. But at the same time, we should be more gracious and accepting of those whose beliefs are different from ours. Balance is the key. |
| Navigating Within a Pluralistic Society |
| Inherent in a postmodernist society is the concept of pluralism: there are vast arrays of faiths and beliefs that people adhere to. There are three conceptual approaches a Christian may assume toward people who believe in other faiths. |
| 1. |
Exclusivism. This is based on the idea that “I’m right, you’re wrong”, a stance of denunciation toward other people’s beliefs. The Apostle Paul understood that he did not have to disassemble others’ beliefs through criticism and condemnation in order for him to speak of his own faith. Instead, Paul sought to be as respectful and relatable to his audience in his effort to win them to Christ (Acts 17:22-34). |
| 2. |
Universalism. This can be summarized by the statement, “As long as you are sincere, then anything you believe in is true.” This is the polar opposite of exclusivism, and a popular stance of extreme postmodernists. The underlying problem that makes this position nonsensical is the fact that every religion or belief presents its own claims to absolute truths. Universalism takes tolerance to the extreme, and although it may initially seem respectable, it leads to a dead end in any ministry effort. |
| 3. |
Inclusivism. “We believe we are right, but we are open to discuss and include other ways of thinking in our discussions.” (Inclusivism is not to be confused with the heretical “gospel of inclusion.”) The New Oxford American Dictionary defines “inclusivism” as “an intention or policy of including people who might otherwise be excluded or marginalized, such as the handicapped, learning-disabled, or racial and sexual minorities.” This is the approach we must take to bring the love of God to an increasingly critical and sophisticated audience of the 21st century. |
| So, back to the question: is City Harvest a postmodern church? My answer is both No and Yes. |
| No, in the sense that we do believe the Bible to be the inerrant, infallible Word of God. We do live by the Ten Commandments and the basic tenets of our Christian faith as outlined in the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, etc. |
| But, yes, in the sense that we do seek to be a tolerant, accepting and gracious people. We love the marginalized and the oppressed, believing that value can be added to those whom are considered worthless. We are not antagonistic to society or its popular culture, but seek to engage it in its entirety as salt and light (Matt. 5:13-16). |
| While we live in a broken-down, perverted world, I do not believe in keeping Christians naïve and ignorant of the harsh realities of society. Again, in absolutes, we must be absolute. But in non-absolutes, we should allow the freedom of personal preferences and give space to the Holy Spirit to lead every Christian individually. I don’t ever want City Harvest Church to be so isolated and sanitized that we become out of touch with the world. Rather, I want to educate and empower my generation to be as creative and colorful as possible, living a dynamic, sophisticated, anointed life in obedience to Christ and the cause of His kingdom. |
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First of all, I will like to thank you pastor for the detailed write-up on Postmodernism and the concise pointers brought up in this post.
I think this issue is really relevant to us today, as we live in a society where there are a lot of grey issues, and to live in a bio-polar world of just black and white extremes, we will be missing out on a large chunk of society.
As with every theory, there are benefits, and Postmodernism has seen the rise of Creationists who merge their faith with science in order to defend the gospel. In doing so, it has also made Christianity more relevant to society.
However, as pointed out by your article, there are dangers to postmodernism as well. To hold the position that everything is relative, is in itself an absolute position that betrays its own philosophy.
As with every economic theory where there is no perfect model, Postmodernism seems to fall into the same category, where extremes should be trimmed off, and balance is a key that is badly needed in society. Absolutes are a necessity in terms of moral values, but tolerance and inclusiveness should be promoted in grey areas.
As a rebuttal to the extreme issue of exclusivism, where there is no tolerance and discussion between religious groups, an isolated stance will only prohibit Christianity from having a voice in society.
In this regard, I fully agree with you on the stand that we need to be relevant and yet have the conviction to stand upon moral absolutes.
We need to be a Good Samaritan and help our neighbors with no strings attached, thereby spreading God’s love through Social Evangelism.
Dear Dr Kong Hee,
Once again, kudos to your thought-leadership in navigating unchartered waters to show us how, as Christians, we can respond to the post-modernistic society that we live in.
I appreciate the amount of research and thought that have gone behind the article to present this philosophical subject with such clarity & accessibility.
While the usual nay-sayers might nit-pick on the association of a church with ideas from post-modernism, it would have been a farce to construct a bubble for the Church & pretend that it is impervious to the age & environment we are in.
The fact is that there are dominant ideologies present in every period & culture; and it is essential, that as Christians, we are not blind to these forces.
Post-Modernism is ultimately a reaction to the age of Modernism, and like the prevailing values of every era, it contains ideologies within – that are sympathetic as well as incompatible to the Christian worldview.
Your article has succinctly highlighted the contributions which post-modernism can offer to the Church, while carefully pointing out the key areas of its departure from the Christian Faith.
This reflection is a keen reminder for Christians to be aware of the prevailing ideologies shaping people & our culture in the world today as well as to examine the value systems that it offers against the enduring convictions of our Christian faith.
As always, we are reminded that we should neither naively throw out the baby with the bathwater nor be too quick to criticise what we may not yet understand.
Dr Kong Hee, thank you for raising up a generation of Spirit-filled, discipled & intelligent Christians.
Congratulations also on City Harvest Church’s 20th Anniversary.
You have shown us that it is possible.
Dear Pastor,
Thank you once again for an insightful article on post-modernism. I applaud your attempt in providing a comprehensive overview on the topic and the practical advice on how should we navigate in the waters of post-modernity. It is not an easy task to try to provide a good overview to this topic as there are many facets to post-modernism which even scholars could not agree upon, but I am really blessed by the clear presentation that you have given. You have provided a balanced Christian worldview which I felt is relevant yet uncompromising by scriptural standards.
I personally believe that the post-modernity era provides tremendous opportunities for Christians to shine as the light of the world and influence as salt of the earth. For too long, the church has confined itself within the four walls of the church. We are like salt kept in a bottle, not able to make a difference in our world; unless we are willing to “dissolve” into the world to bring in Christ’s flavour (while maintaining our saltiness – Christian values.)
So I want to encourage my fellow Christians to shine brightly for Christ in this post modern era!
TKH
Thank you Pastor Kong, for empowering us with knowledge and understanding of such issues.
thanks pastor for taking time to write up this article. it was good. Balance is really the key! =D
Hi Pastor Kong,
congratulations on addressing this very interesting topic on postmodernism and Christianity. I think it is very welcome that a pastor of your stature talk about an important philosophical movement such as postmodernism. You come across as a forward-looking pastor who is not afraid to look at controversial issues from a Conservative theological perspective.
While I would certainly disagree with many of the points raised in this article, such as how the Bible is infallible (I believe we should challenge this notion), I will refrain from discussing them here. For those interested, you can visit my blog (just click on my name) for my discussions on postmodernism and Progressive Christianity (as opposed to Orthodox, conservative Christianity).
Nonetheless, I would like to add on to your excellent article by highlighting some points about postmodernism.
Firstly, there is not in fact one fixed definition of postmodernism. Like many things, we can talk about postmodernism as ranging from ‘mild’ to ‘extreme.’ At the extreme, postmodernism is, as you have said, the belief that there are no absolute truths and all truths are the some. However, this view is taken by a minority of people. Incidentally, Friedrich Nietzsche, a proud promoter of this extreme form of post-modernism, died a very sad and depressed man.
Personally, I am an advocate of a milder form of post-modernism, one that asserts that there may be multiple truths and multiple perspective of the truth. While there may be an absolute truth, our minds and senses limit us from realising this ultimate truth. For example, while we may comprehand God, we can only understand him in terms we know, because we cannot go beyond our own natural comprehension.
Whenever we interpret the Bible or receive a prophecy, we are actually subjecting them to our own biases and cultural upbringing, thus obscuring the actual “meaning” of the divine revelation itself. This is the postmodern perspective.
In talking about postmodernism, we must also talk about a “postmodern society”, as opposed to simply a postmodern worldview. What defines a “postmodern society”? In David Harvey’s excellent (but difficult to read) book “The Condition of Postmodernity”, he talks about two predominant values in a postmodern society.
These are:
1) Disposibility — we live in a “throwaway” society where goods are consumed and disposed of quickly. Think about the ever changing fashion trends that change season after season, the movies that we watch at the cinema, paying $10 for 2 hours of entertainment, and cup noodles.
2) Instantaneity — We live in a society where instantaneity is a value. Things must happen fast; they must happen now. As such, we prize efficiency and speed, sometimes at the expense of other things.
As a result of this rapid flow of goods and commodities before our eyes, David Harvey contends that human psychology changes as well, in that our values change. As a result, even our values are not fixed, and can be thrown away like an old sock.
We live in a media saturated society where different values and lifestyles are displayed right before our eyes. For the Christian male, he struggle with the values taught in church, the sexual liberalism taught in the Western media, and the conservative values of Singaporean society. As such, he becomes confused, lost, swaying with the wind. Such is the postmodern society that we live in.
As a church, how should we react to this? Such is the challenge of any church pastor.
Hi Just Thinking,
good points there. I like what you said about how we need to deal with the grey areas as opposed to just the black and white issues in the world.
However, you did say that “As with every theory, there are benefits, and Postmodernism has seen the rise of Creationists who merge their faith with science in order to defend the gospel. In doing so, it has also made Christianity more relevant to society.”
I must point out that Creationism is something that has been rejected by most scientists, many of whom are staunch Christians. I am of the belief that Christians can believe in evolution and God at the same time :-)
Nonetheless, I shall refrain from discussing too much here. I recently wrote about this on my blog entry “What the H1N1 influenza teaches us about God”. You can read it here: http://irreligiously.blogspot.com/2009/07/what-h1n1-influenza-teaches-us-about.html
We can discuss there if you wish :-)
Wow. i wanna learn to think like this… huge,rounded, balanced,mature.
thank you pastor kong.
Pastor, thanks for the sharing, this is really a Word in season for us. I really believe that as the Body of Christ, it is indeed important for us to be postmodern in the right aspects when dealing with the world in order to be relevant and yet stable in our own beliefs.
Yet I feel that more importantly, we need to learn to practice these aspects within the four walls of the Church, before we try and take it outside. I’m basically talking about Unity within cell groups and zones, and I felt stirred in my heart to mention this when you wrote the following:
“In absolutes, we must be absolute. But in non-absolutes, we should allow the freedom of personal preferences and give space to the Holy Spirit to lead every Christian individually.”
I was really impacted by your Word 2 weeks ago about the Spiritual Atmosphere of the Holy Spirit, and the fact that it brings Unity to the body, because if we are divided from within, we fall from within, and we cannot penetrate the world if we are limited in our own “engine”.
I really thank you for your sharing Pastor, and I’m sure we’ll have the chance to talk more when the time is right.
God Bless, and we’re always praying for you.
With Love,
Ruben Potter
Thank you for a great article and the balanced, a more holistic worldview.
I agree with you on the importance of “in absolutes, we must be absolute.” But when it comes to the non-absolutes, holding on to the modernity worldview could cause problems. In this area of “non-absolute”, a postmodern worldview seems to be closer to a biblical worldview.
Bryant L. Myers in his book “Walking With The Poor: Principles and Practices of Transformational Development” wrote that modernity held on to an absolute separation between the spiritual and physical realms, which has resulted in many dichotomies. Many of these false dichotomies lead Christians to believe that God’s redemptive work takes place only in the spiritual realm, while the world is left, seemingly, to the devil and destruction. However, the biblical worldview is holistic in the sense that the physical world is never understood as being disconnected or separate from the spiritual world and the rule of the God who created it.
As such I view that not everything in the world is evil. I agree with you that we should “seek to be a tolerant, accepting and gracious people. We love the marginalized and the oppressed, believing that value can be added to those whom are considered worthless” or worldly; and “we are not antagonistic to society or its popular culture, but seek to engage it in its entirety as salt and light.”
Thank you for speaking out!
Dear Pastor Kong,
Thank you so much for your sharing and I do agree that CHC is a church that is absolute on what is the truth and what is in the Bible. I truly believe that is the foundation that had build CHC to what it is today and for the last 20 years.
Also CHC is a church no matter how far we have walked and gone, Pastor never forgets that while we accept new and modern cultures but we will never cease to forget the pillars that had build up the church and the people.
Your uncompromise principles of God in your life has set for us a great example to follow.
Thank you Pastor and Happy 20th Birthday to CHC.
VT
Hi Pastor,
Thanks for this great blog entry on postmodernism! It was enlightening, and obviously well-researched and well-thought through.
I was very blessed by it!
Dear Pastor Kong,
Thank you for the very in-depth, comprehensive and balanced article! It has certainly given me a better understanding and practical help in responding to the complexities of modern life as a Christian.
As pointed out in your article, “In absolutes, we must be absolute. But in non-absolutes, we should allow the freedom of personal preferences and give space to the Holy Spirit to lead every Christian individually.” I fully believe that we must both “Insulate” (be steadfast in setting ourselves apart for God in our core beliefs) and at the same time not be afraid to be led by the Hoy Spirit in engaging the world in a positive and loving way.
Too often the church shrinks back when God leads us to unfamiliar grounds. In the Scriptures we learn that Joshua the son of Nun, lingered in the presence of God, was full of faith and eventually was able to lead the Israelites into the land of the giants which many of his contemporaries were terrified of. I think it is time we draw a few lessons from Joshua and first strengthen our “absolutes” so we are able to enter into the society and truly bring about a blessing to world we live in.
Pastor, thank you once again for a great post!
Dear Pastor Kong,
Thank you writing such a comprehensive and insightful article on the topic of postmodernism!
I am reminded of the familiar story of five blind men and the elephant. One, seizing a leg, concluded that the elephant was a tree; another, grasping the side, reasoned that the elephant was a wall, and so on. The truth (belief) for the first man is that the elephant is like a tree; for the second, it is that the elephant is like a wall; and so on. Perspectival objectivists, would say all of these insights, each correct from its own perspective, are partial and therefore incomplete. However, in reality, what the elephant is like is a composite of all of these partial pieces of understanding: a tree, a rope, a hose, a wall and so on. For those whose beliefs are different from ours, we should be careful not to be so quick to ‘judge’, but to be gracious, accepting and tolerant.
How are we to learn from the insights of postmodernism? I agree with you that “As Christians, we must hold on to the moral conviction of God’s Word in our hearts. But at the same time, we should be more gracious and accepting of those whose beliefs are different from ours. Balance is the key.”
Our mode of presentation of the gospel will have to take into account the perceptual characteristics of one’s audience ie. a postmodernistic society that adheres to “vast arrays of faiths and beliefs”. We need to understand that the locus of authority in the Written Word of God is the proposition (the truth being expressed) rather than the sentence (the form in which it is expressed). The message is sacred but the method is not.
We should not be “so isolated and sanitized that we become out of touch with the world” but instead, dynamically engage the contemporary culture that we are living in with great wisdom and anointing, radical obedience and unwavering commitment to the Lord.
This is a brilliant piece, Pastor Kong!
I like it that your entries are always substantiated by research and literatures and never just what you ‘feel’ is right. You present the facts and let the readers decide for themselves what they want to conclude about the topic and not force it down their throats. And it’s amazing how every entry seemed to address just the right issue that everyone’s grappling with at the moment.
Thank you Pastor. You’re awesome.
Hello Pastor,
Awesome article! It is very in depth and very much researched on the issues!
wow Pst awesome. and i thought that Fountain was really familar, because i learn about it in school. just that i didn’t know that it carries the concept of Postmodernism.
thank you for sharing with us! (:
Dear Ps, thanks for writing such a brilliant article! This article is not only interesting and thought-provoking, but it’s also much needed for us Christians who live in a fast-moving, modern world of many cultures and values. I believe many Christians are wondering how to live their daily lives outside of the four walls of the church. How do we be influencers without being irrelevant? How do we ‘be all things to all men’ yet not compromise? Your article is an empowering word which will set us thinking about the absolutes in our lives to live by as well as areas in our lives which we could allow ourselves to be more flexible, liberal and relevant. Thanks so much Ps!
Hi Pastor,
Thanks for taking time to explain this. It is amazing how u have clearly explained what postmodernism is and how relevant it is to our faith.
Indeed the world is evolving, to becoming more postmodern. As an arts student, we are taught to critique and question everything that is absolute. But i can’t help but agree with you, that in absolutes, we must be absolute. If there are no absolutes, or a single truth that we build upon, we would not have a basis and foundation for our faith. Indeed, “balance is the key”.
Thank you pastor for this great post and helping us understand “postmodernism”.
I love CHC’s approach to hold on to our convictions and yet allow liberty for believers to maneuver.
Thank you Pastor Kong Hee,
This entry has indeed brought a greater understanding in the area of balancing between absolutes and freedom of creativity. I am really blessed by this entry!
This was very sad reading for me, I cannot follow you on this one.
It sounds good, but my heart says no!
Gal 5:1 hardly refers to pop culture, alcoholdrinking and tatooing, it is just an excuse to live a life in this world without salt.
I pray God will protect all young people from this message.
Tom Wiik
Wow, pastor, I love your last paragraph! Thanks for being such an awesome leader that will guide us to become the people that God wants us to be. Rock on! :)
Thank you Ps Kong Hee on such an inspiring and yet balanced article about what postmodernism is and isn’t.
It challenged me personally, who is called to make a different in my generation, not to judge with presupposed antagonistic views of this world, but be free to rise up to be the agent of redemption in our postmodern society.
We are so proud of you for all that you are doing for the Kingdom of God! Have a great City Harvest Church’s 20th Anniversary celebration Ps Kong Hee!!!
luv, John Lee
An excellent article on Post-Modernism with the standpoint of Christianity.
QUOTE
In absolutes, we must be absolute. But in non-absolutes, we should allow the freedom of personal preferences and give space to the Holy Spirit to lead every Christian individually.
UNQUOTE
This is absolutely true. This is exactly your calling “The Message is Sacred, but the method is not”. I believe what the Holy Spirit would say is “Remember to put it in practice now”!
I have done much research on Cultural Mandate that you preached and like what you mentioned in this article to transform the culture. I personally believe that it is theologically correct. In fact, this is just the theology of Jesus’s manifestation (Word became flesh). Jesus did not come to the earth with a superbeing’s image but just dress, eat, drink, speak like an ordinary person. Well done, keep on practising what Jesus did.
May I give my warm bessing to 20th Anniversary of City Harvest Church. From my research on churches arounf the world, CHC is one of the pioneer of the post-modern church reformation. Although in certain areas of teaching my standpoint in different from you, you are still in my prayers as I sensed the move of God in your church. God bless you, Kong!
Love,
Sola Fide, Jesse Mak
Dear Tom Wiik,
I refer to your comment made yesterday.
“Gal 5:1 hardly refers to pop culture, alcoholdrinking and tatooing, it is just an excuse to live a life in this world without salt.”
First of all, to say that the above verse quoted by Ps Kong as a form of excuse “to live a life in this world without salt” does not seem to make much sense. From my readings of his blog entries, being the salt of the earth and light of the world, bringing Christ into culture (world) whilst holding on to the moral conviction of God’s Word in our hearts, is something that Ps Kong has clearly and often emphasized. There isn’t a need for him to come up with an excuse to shirk away from this. As quoted in this most recent blog entry, [Ps Kong] “We are not antagonistic to society or its popular culture, but seek to engage it in its entirety as salt and light (Matt. 5:13-16).”
Source: The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament (Galatians)
Gal 5:1 summarizes Galatians chapter 4, where the theme is bondage and freedom. It also serves to introduce chapter 5. Paul declared that Christ was the great Liberator who set believers free from bondage. The apostle then appealed to the Galatians to stand firm (cf. 1 Cor. 16:13; Phil. 1:27; 4:1; 1 Thes. 3:8; 2 Thes. 2:15) in that liberty, for having been delivered from slavery to heathenism, they were in danger of becoming entangled in slavery to the Mosaic Law.
Proper hermeneutic requires us to read any Bible passage with the actual context in mind. In this verse, Paul warns that people who put themselves under the Mosiac Law becoming debtors to the whole system, and in turn robbing themselves of the blessings Christ had purchased for them.
Likewise, whilst we do away with the ceremonial and Mosiac laws, as Christians, though “we do live by the Ten Commandments and the basic tenets of our Christian faith as outlined in the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, etc…. (But) On matters that are non-absolute (wine-drinking, tattooing, pop culture, etc.), let us allow for freedom that is in Jesus Christ.”
Hi LYL,
Thanks for your reply,
Is this the message that will draw people to Christ?, Drink alcohol, Take a Tattoo, masturbate if you want, enjoy popculture.
Doesn´t any bell ring in your heart?
T. Wiik
thank you Ps Kong for such enlightening and clear explanation regarding this issue. I truly feel that Christians all around the world should engage the world in a way that is relevant such that people may understand and believe that there is a God that loves them and yet want them to be spiritually strong and yet up to date in this globalised world.
I do agree with what you have posted, however, I would like to ask how if a Christian become so engrossed in pop culture that he unconsciously let go of his faith? How would we face that and how exactly will the Holy Spirit lead us in this ever so complicated world?
again, Thanks for your post. GBU Ps Kong
These 144,000 have not been defiled with “women”, that is, with the doctrines of the “whore churches!” They are clean! Their spiritual robes are white; and they follow our Saviour in all that they do! They have come out of the world, and from day to day seek the will of our Father, doing His will, loving Him first and loving and obeying our Saviour!
Book of Lamentations is your eventual spiritual atmosphere in that Day. Please understand someone needs to hear this, maybe you should be a ‘virgin’, before the King of kings. Blessings. God loves you.
Hi Tom Wiik
We need to have a balanced approach on certain issues raised over here.
Like for example, reading is not a sin.
But reading a magazine with lust is wrong.
Also, watching tv is not wrong.
But watching unclean programmes with lust is wrong.
We cannot be extreme by making a statement that Drinking or Body Art is wrong. At the end of the day, it is all about the purpose of one’s heart.
Titus 1:15
To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
It is really all about our HEARTS.
The purpose of raising such topics is to educate us that whatever we do, we do it unto God. We should do with the right purpose. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to guide us, with the 10 commandments, as we walk into the marketplace as sheep among wolves.
I don’t think it is wrong to enjoy pop culture. I am still listening to MJ’s or U2’s or Beyonce’s or Akon’s music. I’m loving it!
I find that tattoos is an amazing art. Drinking can help to improve our health.
So tell me…
What do you think of people who enjoy pop culture?
What do you think of people who have tattoos?
What do you think of people who drink alcohol?
Thanks and take care! =)
Tom Wiik,
If drinking is really bad,
If tattoo symbolizes ungodly,
If masturbation will really send us to hell,
then every single human except for Jesus won’t be able to enter heaven.
John 2:1-10, Jesus performed one of his first miracle which is to turn water into wine. If God really disapprove of wine and moderate drinking, Jesus won’t perform this miracle at all, instead he’ll turn all wine into grapes juice.
People with tattoos nowadays are often being discriminated as people that are of no use to the society or ungodly. They are like the lepers during Jesus time. DId Jesus just stand there and judge or did Jesus embraced them and even heal them?
Masturbation and adultery, both are sexual sin if you want to put it this way. In the bible, a woman is caught in the act of adultery. Did Jesus condemn her? Instead Jesus taught us something here, he who is without sin cast the first stone. Are you so sinless that you can judge others?
Perhaps embracing people who have the above seem hard, it’s cultural mandate to us reaching all levels but perhaps it’s enjoying of pop culture.
Maybe you should ask what will Jesus think if he saw what we has done, afterall he’s the big boss of ours right?
Just to share something that came to my mind between the comments made by tom wiik, kwl, guitarwu, very interesting points raised up to ponder on, thanks guys/gals.
As a christian, our true status is but a lowly servant of god, no servant is qualify to dictates right or wrong for the right and power to judge within the house belongs only to the master of the house.
Well, our master left the house and will come back soon one day, before he left, he left his orders in a book (bible) for us to carry out, a supervisory helper (holy sprit) to report, to guide us. A holy bath (jesus blood) so that we can continue to live in the house while he build a bigger and better house where hopfully all of us can enter.
So two basic example of orders from him:
We know to break the commandments is wrong because father tells us so, but who is blameless in this world now?
we know its right to love everyone as our neighbour, but can u love a stranger? do u sit in service with someone u do not know and find in your heart to love them and show genuine concern in that short session?
God is wise, so for orders that is absolute and transcents time space and borders, he put it forward straight in our face eg, honour ur parents. so for those that are not absolute, he did not give an order but he gave guidelines and call it sins.
look at it this way, tatoos is a preference, a painting on the body, hey god never say its wrong to paint a tatoo on the body, but if your parents strongly objects to it, and u still put it on, causing a rift in your family, are you honouring your parents?
God never says drinking its wrong, but what if you went dead drunk and commit a violent act?
God never mention anything about masturbation in his orders, but if you masturbate and neglect your duties as a husband/wife, you let your heart and mind wander around in a fantasy world instead of being faithful to your partner?
Bible never says anything about smoking, but what if a friend is quiting, you smoke in front of him casuing him to stumble?
So to me bottomline, if an action burdens my heart, i dont do it, if my actions may cause a negative impact or hurt another, i dont do it. Well doesnt always applies on all issues but i find it easier to navigate in this fallen world if we constantly reminds ourself to put god first and all other before ourself.
Im really glad that there are so many people placing their positive views here because of pastor kong’s article, it really shows the holy sprit speaks to everyone in their own unique way.
God bless.
Dear Tom Wiik ,
If you think that “Drink alcohol, Take a Tattoo, masturbate if you want, enjoy popculture.” is going to stop you from entering the gates of heaven, by all means stay clear. There is no encouragement from Pastor to do so – he just biblically pointed out that there is no restriction on those as per the Bible. On such issues, it’s your life, you decide for yourself.
Regards
Julius
this post put a smile on my face because is is what i learn in school, the different periods in history and their influences. this article really put me straight and grounded if in any cases in which my studies lead me elsewhere.
:D
There’s this thing i’m not very sure about. Why is it that we have to obey the ten commandments when we are living in the new covenant? Cos if the old covenant(10 commandments) had been faultless, there would not be a need for the new one. (Hebrews 8:7) Would someone kindly explain? (:
Hi Tom Wiik,
Pastor is talking abt freedom in Christ. When we start to frame law for each and everything that comes up in the world, then our law book would grow beyond size. No one can restrict no one in the recent day issues. Today, tattoo and tomorrow another issue will come out, we can’t be a judge for others in everything.
It’s all upto the culture in which the person grew with and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In one culture alcohol is sin and in another it is a part of their Diet. Can you say they are sinners? No, can not.
In the Old Testament, God dealt only with One Culture, so even beyond ten commandments, he kept some laws for Israelites. Now God is dealing with the whole world through Holy Spirit. So, no law except for the ten commandments, which is the moral standard of God.
If you can not find an issue fits into one of the ten commandments, then it is upto your wish and the leading of the Holy Spirit. If Spirit leads me, i wont have tattoo in my body. If the Spirit doesn’t speak to me about this, i will have it (if i want). The Spirit leads each and every one according to the purpose God has for the particular individual.
Dear God’s beloved.
Yours is a valid question, and I will try to answer it to the best of my ability. The ten commandment is given by God through Moses to the Israelites hence the 10 commandment is a reflection of our God’s character and what he stands for, As the 10 commandent comes from God, IT IS good and faultless but the prolem is that people cannot live up to it hence we need the grace of the new convenant for salvation.
Although now we are saved by grace through faith it does not mean that the 10 commament is irrelevent any more. It is still very valid and useful!
It is valid because Jesus taught about in in Sermont on the Mount ( Matt 5:21 onwards) and Jesus actually expanded on it. In Matthew Jesus did not renounce the 10 commandment but actually elaborated on it, makng it fuller,clearer and firm. Jesus himself also said he came NOT to abolish ( Matt 5:17) the law and that he wants pople to live by it asmuch as possible ( Matt 5 19)
The great apostle Paul in his letters in the churches also praised the Law saying that we cannot deny the validity and goodness of the law although we are saved by faith ( Roman 3:31)
Now that we have established that the law is relevent and that i is scriptural to obey it even in the new testament, how does it help us? FirstlyI it help us by acting as a mirror.Paul himself said he would not have know how wretched he is had not the law revealed his short coming( Roman Roman 7:7). After revaling our sin and how helpless we are to the power of sin, this ” mirror” points us to Jesus so that we know we can only be saved by grace and not work.
Secondly, the law acts as a teacher. After we are justified by faith ( penalty of Sin abolished), we need to continually sanctify ourselves so that the power of sin can be weaken day by day. This can only be down using the law as a ” teacher” , telling us what we cannot do and what we need to do.
In conclusion. the Law is good and faultless but the problem lies with people for they cannot fufill the law wih their own ability hence that is why Jesus needed to come. It is through grace that we are saved but it does not mean the law is no longer needed. The basic benefit of the law has been stated above and God want us to fulfill the law though the power of theHoly Spirit that lives in us. Once it was impossible the fufil the law ( old testamtent, before christ came) now it is posible (Ezekiel 36:26-27)
Hey thanks a lot shing. (: that makes lots of sense. But in Galatians 3:24, it says ‘ Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.’ Kindly help to clarify again? haha.
Dear Tom Wiik,
I feel that Ps Kong has made himself clear in his previous blog entries pertaining to issues like drinking, tattooing and masturbating etc.
[Kong Hee] “And while opinions are important, we do hold on to the absolutes found in the Holy Scripture, and do not waver in conviction when it comes to the moral law and the basic tenets of our faith.”… “Again, in absolutes, we must be absolute. But in non-absolutes (like drinking, tattooing, pop culture etc), we should allow the freedom of personal preferences and give space to the Holy Spirit to lead every Christian individually.”
It’s evident that the key to ‘enjoying’ pop culture is to readily engage it, in a relevant but uncompromising manner when it comes to the truth of God’s word. Having said that, this means that believers must be careful not to veer towards lawlessness. The statement you made, “Drink alcohol, Take a Tattoo, masturbate IF YOU WANT (my emphasis added), enjoy popculture”, however, seems to hint to me otherwise.
Even Paul highlights his concern for lawlessness in the same chapter of Gal 5. Even though he mentioned the ‘liberty in Christ’ we have as believers in Gal 5:1, he proceeds to warn the Galatians, “For you brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use the liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” (Gal 5:13-14).
“Love your neighbour as yourself” Our neighbours surely include those who drink, tattoo, gamble, smoke, struggle with homosexuality and sexual sins etc. But the love of Father God, portrayed in the story of the ‘Prodigal Son’ (Luke 15:11-32), clearly does not repel these ‘prodigal sons’ but to embrace and reach out to them. Jesus does likewise. His response to Zacchaeus, the chief tax collector who exploited the commoners, was acceptance. We later observe how Jesus’ love for him led Zacchaeus repenting of his wrong doing; without Jesus even preaching to him! In Matthew 9:13, Jesus says, “I desire mercy and not sacrifice. For I did not come to call the righteous but sinners, to repentance.”
Like Jesus, we are to love the people around us. We must be careful of this mindset that “the way to salvation is to obey ALL the law (a salvation of works)” when Jesus has already set us free from the law (Gal 5:1), and thereby ending up proud, judgemental and condescending to others who may not match up to our own ‘moral standard’. Instead, we should “seek to be a tolerant, accepting and gracious people; [and not be] antagonistic to society or its popular culture, but seek to engage it in its entirety as salt and light (Matt. 5:13-16).”
Well written Pastor Kong!! Salute!!
Postmodernism coincides with Isaiah 66 which relates to Revelation the sixty sixth book of the bible, namely Is 66 mentions that as Israel chose her own ways, the Lord gave her over to her delusions; a negative postmodernism. However I am not saying that postmodernism is an negative thing, but i want to highlight that it is a sign of the times we are in, the last days. Hence forth the woman of Rev 12, the rapture, the great tribulation, the new heavens and the new earth, the sons of the kingdom are all mentioned in this chapter. The Lord rebuked the pharisees who could discern the weather but could not discern the times. I feel that we are in a specific timeline of the Lord. Though i do not know how CHC will evolve, i strongly urged everyone to be led by the Spirit as far as you can, for not all our ways are His, and not all our thoughts are His, may the Lord direct you into His kingdom and may He fulfil the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power in your midst. Blessings.
Of a fact, when you read the scritpures of Is 66, Israel did took a negative postmodernism, what would be cataclyst that the church (in general) would not take the same path? Would the era of postmodernism become a snare on our table? I would be tend to the belief that most in the church would not survive with postmodernism based on this scripture of the times we the church (Israel) is now in. But this is my opinion. Perhaps that’s why it was highlighted by the Spirit of God for our benefit. Anyway, the Lord directs His house, i am not against the postmodern mindset of CHC, i think its of the Lord. You just have to be very careful, of which i think few are there who are worthy and will be overcomers. I am hoping CHC will navigate through this with the wisdom from above. But still for a fact, the church is generally not always walking with the Lord. Just an opinion. Blessings.
I think that when you are in postmodern era, you will tend to make more mistakes with this mindset. Beware.
Dear Pst Kong,
Thanks for a very balanced article. I do hope you can share your views on intermarriage or even cross dating. I think it’s something that’s becoming more relevant these days.
In Galatians 3:24, it says ‘ Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.’ Any clarification will be greatly appreciated. (:
Hi there God’s beloved
As i mentioned previously we are saved by grace. The law point us to Christ and from there we are saved by grace through faith. No longer are do we live under law hence in galatian 3 24 it says ” we are no longer a tutor ( law)”. However, like I mentioned in the previous post, altough we are no longer under it, the law of the ten commandment is still relevent to us so that we can be continuously sanctify and to live a life that pleases our holy and righteous God. Without the ten commandment, there is just no yardstick for us to know how we shall live our lives. The 10 commandment seperate us christians from non-believers. The ten commandent prevents lawlessness. Like what is said in Roman 7:12 ” Therefore the law is holy and the commandment holy and just and GOOD”. Amen.
Dear Pastor,
Your blog entry on postmodernism was AWESOME!!! :) Indeed it really further “enhance” the Cultural Mandate series you taught about. :) As usual, there’ll be critics all over the place, but rest assured cos we will be your pillars of strength k… but most importantly, our Lord Jesus is your BEST SUPPORTER!!! God bless Pastor…
Hi pastor.
That is a very well-written post about Postmodernism! I’m very impressed!
To ihopeiamwrong & Tom Wiik
What about Jermiah 29:5-7?
God told His people to stay in Babylon! The most pagan culture in all history. How much must we engage culture? If all of us re-draw from culture; who will shine God’s light in the world?
Cheers!
Dear ihopeiamwrong,
Can you please explain what you mean by the below? You stated that “for a fact”, can you please state these facts?
“I am hoping CHC will navigate through this with the wisdom from above. But still for a fact, the church is generally not always walking with the Lord.”
Regards,
Julius
“God’s Beloved”, stop trying to create a facade of righteousness and false humility when it is clear that your agenda is to make comments which have nothing to do with the blog entry in any way. Go read Pastor Kong Hee’s blog on the Ten Commandments, and go read about common theological doctrine. You are merely picking out verses out of context to further your erroneous way of thinking. Your questions do not even warrant an answer.
“ihopeiamwrong”, go learn some basic English before you even attempt to criticize this blog entry. It is obvious that you are contradicting yourself many times, making basic grammatical errors, and then ludicrously and illogically stating that City Harvest does not walk in God’s ways.You say that post-modernism is “of the Lord”, but then try to find out-of-context verses to further your mistaken logic.
I am not against constructive criticism or educated debate, but despise ignorance, hidden agendas, and foolish comments such as those you two have made.
dear royjunior
Chill man. i think God’s beloved asked with good attitude hence he/she is entitled to an answer. Its only when people ask with lousy attitude that they deserve the silent treatment. peace out.
Again, in absolutes, we must be absolute. But in non-absolutes, we should allow the freedom of personal preferences and give space to the Holy Spirit to lead every Christian individually…. I totally agree with what Ps wrote and am so blessed by this… just a sidenote.. to those who wish to ‘defend’ Pastor, let’s do it with objectivity, humility, patience and tolerance else we are no different from them.. and even if they are not on Ps side, let’s not ‘force’ them to… GB..
I thank u for the “balanced” preached, it is something that i am always wanted.. This is the key that i will be moved and be rooted in CHC. the message makes me feels that i really need a cg for growing.. I am never so godly because i feel that in assurance i will be finally be accepted in CHC.. Because world is made up of many different people.. i dun like myself to be classified into “holy” because i am not the Savior, i just spread the Savior’s Word.
Holy Bible is the one Holy, not me, i only read and tell people about that.. However in the bible, there are some more ungodly or “unholy” things happens as i believe God wants to show that we are indeed 2/3 spiritual and 1/3 flesh.. Live by Faith and not by sight is the illustration God wants us to know that we do have a fleshly sight and in order to do that we need to know that with our own ability we are not able (just like satan, he don’t have the real power, all powers are granted by God.) If you can see this point it tells us that God is a gentle God, the more we want to argue the more He will be slient as in the end the results will still be the same as satan already being defeated 2000yrs ago when Jesus died on the cross.
Because we keep on having the fight between our own selves,(2/3 Spirit and 1/3 Flesh.) That is why we are having doubts and fears… Because we were afraid to step out to believe the truth that we had already won the victory, that is the interesting part where we need consistent of prayer and bible reading. we need to read bible daily to remind ourselves not as to be a form of religious doings. In the bible we can find a lot of interesting message that we maybe being through before and God delivered us from there.
When you preach about Balanced, i feel as if i really found the truth that i have never found it before, i thank you for lead us out to be a Balanced person; not overdoing nor over slacking n reaching out. Thank you Pastor Kong.
I have being in church for 7 years, being filled with many disappointments and left church and being part of the world and the message is the best message for me to step out of the line to make a difference between the living and the dead. God leads us to composing of songs and more (culture mandate) i believe is for us to know the important of balanced. Think again of it makes my brain to have more breakthroughs. and my life will be very meaningful from now.on…
Thank you once again.:)
Dear Pastor
I am singularly impressed by your piece – I’ve never seen postmodernism explained this way and it has been very educational.
I think one of the most difficult things to preach is the cultural mandate. Being a post modern church opens CHC up to all kinds of criticism, which is only to be expected as all of us have different levels of faith, as Paul says. I suppose when in the presence of a conservative person we should be gracious not to stumble this person with the freedom we personally have, but in the blogosphere, that’s a little hard to control.
This topic does, however, bring to mind the importance that each and every CHC member must be well insulated from the wider and wilder aspects of post-modernism. As you aptly took note, there are some who fall on the end of Universalism. I’ve encountered this many times with friends of various denominations, who cannot understand why we Christians insist that our God is the one true God.
I feel much focus must be brought to this – as the church grows bigger and multiplies faster, greater emphasis must be put on strengthening each member’s “list of non-compromise” – that the very things the church stands for – the basic tenets of our faith – become the unshakeable foundation upon which each person (particularly each young person) in CHC builds his faith and grows in his relationship with the Lord. These items must be non-negotiable, and every member must be keenly aware of them at all times.
(Us cell group leaders have a lot of prayer and work to focus on then! To help strengthen every member in our groups.)
Thank you Pastor, I am encouraged — thank you for leading the way and lighting the path.
Theresa
Just a question to all , do you guys still believe in the Holy Bible? Yes, you guys read them, but do you think there is a need to follow them in this postmodern era?
That is a question I am curious to know from young people like you to answer :)
By the way, I’m young too, but just curious to find out from other young people
Hi shing, thanks for your reply. (: I think i get what your stand is. Ten commandments is a guideline to your morality and whenever you fall, you will ask for God’s grace, is that right?
And i really appreciate that you replied despite the fact you didn’t need to. (:
TO GOD’S BELOVED:
aiyo…God’s beloved. u very funny leh…
U cannot see menu bar on right, Pst Kong got write one whole blog on 10 Commandments and then we have like so many comments to discuss there?
Why u suddenly ask this type of question here?
Read there first then Ask there la.
No wonder royjunior think u got bad motives ah…;
dun like tat can… netqiutte mah.
TO I.N:
waa… I.N! of cos we believe in the Holy Bible la…
Postmodern era or not, we believe that heaven and earth will pass away but the Word of God endures forever.
Just bcos Pst talk abt things we can glean from postmodern era u jump the gun n say we think we dun believe in Holy Bible? a bit off leh… ;)
TO IHOPEIAMWRONG,
sorry la. but this time ithinkurwrong.
how can u anyhow say that FOR A FACT..the church is generally not walking with the Lord… JUST AN OPINION.
u insult people then u say BLESSINGS…somemore… aiyo
super no logic man.
like for eg.
EG only huh dun get angry,
i say
Ihopeiamwrong, FOR A FACT…You are flaky. JUST AN OPINION. BLESSINGS.
Like that you think its ok meh? not mean meh?
I think quite bad lah…
So why u anyhow say you opinion is fact?
sigh.
last time when i was young, my mother says, if u dun have anything good to say abt others, shut up.
I think my mother is right. u think leh?
=p
Frank Lee,
Eh frankie guy, u very funny lei. You comment or don’t comment like no difference sia, all not constructive one. You’re the one irrelevant lor. Cut back on the insults la. You see the comments not happy then comment back one, right? Don’t do that la, you how old alr. Chill can. The way you talk irritating lei, like every sentence talk also want to shoot people. I realize my way of trying to imitate you talking is starting to piss me off. Speak proper england la.
I think your mother is right too, you should shut up.
To Your Mum,
Haha! So you are trying to imitate me ah?
Some one wise once said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. so thank you hor.
so which nick were u using previously huh?
my comments sure got shoot people. but never got insults hor.
insults are unsubstaitiated character assination like when u say i m irritating.
refutations are made based on the weaknesses in their arguments.
my comments aim at their arguments hor.
ANyway, If u cannot see the point beyond my england… then sorry for u.
but dun anyhow say pp is irritating lei.
u dun like it if i say the way u TRY TO IMITATE me is irritating right?
not very nice right?
but still we can agree on one pt.
my mother is right! =)
so dun be mean and pick on me.
but think through my points, unless u r one of those i shot. =)
nuff said!
The ‘Inclusivism’ you speak about is great and is indeed the way forward. But even though the leadership takes this stance, there is a ‘Cultural Dogmatism’ that pervades the City Harvest congregation where people who do not fully align themselves to City Harvest culture are marginalized.
For instance, in the cell group system, members who do not zealously attend all meetings; weekly cell meetings, prayer meetings, zone meetings, etc. may be noted down on paper as NDW or Not Doing Well. Does an unblemished attendance sheet and complete alignment to City Harvest culture determine one’s relationship with God? If it isn’t, then who is anyone to judge whether one is or is not ‘doing well’ with God. To term someone as such is derogatory and condescending.
This is just a trivial example but it is this kind of attitude that marginalizes people on the ‘fringe’. By fringe I mean people who love God, who ascribe to and respect City Harvest doctrine but may not necessarily feel entirely comfortable with every aspect of City Harvest culture. It gives one the sense that to be truly part of City Harvest, one must fully conform to a very specific mould, a Cultural Dogma. Shouldn’t one be allowed to find and to express oneself to God without being made to feel ‘not good enough’ just because he/she doesn’t go for a cell meeting or prayer meeting?
Hi Darius,
I do appreciate your comments on ‘cultural Dogmatism’ and you make a valid point that the church need to be guarding against, which I believe that Ps Kong and the leadership is fiercely working towards as the church matures. This requires a constant renewal of the mind, starting with the CGLs and then the rest of the church members, being more accepting, less judgmental and letting people make up their own minds and convictions.
Having said that, I feel it’s only right to point out that it is not true that CGLs note down NDW on members just because they do not attend church activities. Everyone has different reasons for not attending or not being able to attend. Leaders as shepherds, are truly ‘my brother’s keepers’ and are accountable for members well being including spiritually. They discern and if they feel that a member is NDW, they note it as so, not to condemn or judge, but to pray and to help. Of course, there is a chance that the leader is wrong in discernment. But so what? Why is that surprising when he/she is only human? What is there to be offended about, when you know someone cares for you, loves you and is concerned enough to notice you and pray for you?
Darius, you should not feel marginalized. Speak to the leader concerned if you feel uncomfortable with the attention and approach. No one needs to conform to a particular mound to be acceptable in church. Having said that, I strongly encourage you to open up your heart and let go off any past hurts within you. Only then, you can move on in God and flow with the church vision.
In His Love,
Julius
Dear Dairus,
In every organisation, with a strong culture that is embraced and embodied by the majority of the people, the concern that you raised regarding those on the fringe can be valid, as they will always be people who will feel out of place for one reason or another.
However, I will hesitate to cynically label it with such an extremist and negative term as “Cultural Dogmatism”.
I agree with you that nobody should be made to feel that they are not going enough as ultimately God is the one who judges. As fellow believers, our role is to shepherd, to mentor, to love and to care for the members the best we know how. And if one of the members is not doing well, we want to try our best to help.
The example that you raised stems perhaps from a misunderstanding of our attempt to highlight and help members in our midst that are not doing well. For instance, a member who has been actively coming to Church service and cell group meeting but suddenly stops coming and withdraws from people.
We want to be able to effectively reach out to him and help him should he be going through a tough time, or experiencing a faith crisis.
We have never and are not aiming for “unblemished attendance sheet” as that would be superficial.
Nonetheless, we recognise that if a member stops showing up suddenly, it is reason enough for us to pay attention and reach out to him with concern and love.
In CHC, we have a culture that is embraced and embodied by our members. There is also a distinguishing Spiritual DNA, which identifies who we are. This is a good thing.
Part of our DNA is loving people fervently, hence, the importance of inclusiveness and acceptance for all, even those on the fringe.
Along the same vein, part of our DNA is also loving God wholeheartedly, hence, we continually inspire and encourage each other on in our commitments and walk of faith.
Loving God and loving people always go hand in hand in City Harvest.
Hi Ps Kong
I am a passer-by of your blog and chance upon this piece.
Thank you for highlighting important issues in our times to teach us.
Our faith is simple but expressing that faith needs understanding of the world we live, and knowing the heart of God. Gentle as doves; wise as serpents?
This piece is so relevant to me as I often find myself asking how to express my faith in this world; in these times. And I often wobble on how to be sensitive, yet firm; be resolute without coming across as offensive, and above all, be holding values which God teaches, without losing compassion and humility.
After reading this, I think I might have a sense of where I was floundering and I don’t need to continue to flounder. Jesus Himself uses postmodernist heart to discern beyond the obvious but is clear of God’s teachings. Thank you.
btw, another thought…
To borrow Simon Cowell’s recent remark to an American Idol contestant: ‘you are a strange person’; so are you :) I say it with respect and not ridicule.
Your wife and you reminded me of Jesus being a man on earth. Our Lord has always been relevant to His culture in His times. He defies easy categorisation.They can’t place Him, neither can the people then ignore Him. He challenges the thoughts, beliefs, motives of both His followers and everyone else, regardless of their race, status and religions.
Your ways and your heart – I guess only your wife and our Lord truly knows. You do many things which disturbs me, yet I can’t say the activities dishonour our Lord. The Lord spoke to you and you follow after Him ? That’s awesome.
May the Lord continue to guide you and guard you. God bless
继续做神不愧躲的仆人
Thank you again
wontonmee007