Wholesome Shallowness?

September 22, 2009

In 2007, my wife Sun released a music video of the hit single, “China Wine,” the result of a creative collaboration with reggae wunderkind, Wyclef Jean. That video garnered a lot of attention on YouTube with more than two million hits over two dozen fan sites. It received rave reviews from industry insiders as well as youths who love dance pop the world over. Not surprisingly, the video also raised quite a few eyebrows within the religious fraternity who felt it was inappropriate for a Christian to be featured in a dance video.

Although Sun is married to me, she herself was never formally ordained as a minister. She never felt gifted with a pulpit ministry. But ever since Sun was a child, she had participated in many singing contests and won quite a few of them. As a preacher’s wife, Sun functioned faithfully from behind-the-scenes as my helpmate, becoming an effective counselor and a singer in the church.

At the turn of the millennium, as I began formulating my doctrine on the Cultural Mandate, challenging my generation to come out of isolation and engage the marketplace, I urged Sun to help me embody that message. In 2002, she launched her new career in Taiwan as a pop singer. Since then, she has done very well with more than four million units sold, five multi-platinum records, and over 30 number one songs in five different countries. Today, she is known in the Far East as a bona fide singer, entertainer and humanitarian.

From her royalties, Sun has built eight schools, two orphanages, two medical centers, one rehabilitation clinic, and two housing projects. Through her connections, she has helped with the establishing and fund-raising of four other orphanages, two hospitals, two community services, and one charity foundation. For all these humanitarian achievements, Sun was awarded the Top Outstanding Young Person of the World in 2003, and became China’s Charity Ambassador of Children since 2004. In 2007, she sang the theme song for the Special Olympics at Shanghai. Last year, she sang the 2008 Olympic Anthem during the pre-game launch at Beijing. The unchurched throughout Asia loves Sun and views her as an exemplary model to the youths of society.

Yet, in spite of all her secular and creative achievements, many conservative pastors find it hard to accept Sun in any role outside of church ministry. But the reality is that she is no longer a church staff or a gospel singer. She doesn’t work for any religious organization.

As a professional artist, Sun has to take on many dramatic stage personas. This is what entertainers do. In the “China Wine” video, she happens to be acting in one such role. Fiction must be separated from fact. I think the struggle many pastors have is the difficulty to separate her association with me (as a pastor’ wife) and her career as a singer. I agree that if she is a “pastor” or “preacher,” perhaps the video would have been inappropriate. But Sun is not a pastor. She is an entertainer. All her music videos were not produced by the church but by her secular music label, the company that she is working for.

“China Wine” is a music video about a girl who has to take up an extra job at a nightclub to make ends meet for her family. Some pastors immediately took offense at the club scene and sexy dancers around her. As for her costumes, she wore gym clothes which was not inappropriate for the set she had to act in. At the end of the music video, she caught her boyfriend cheating on her in the night club and confronted him in Mandarin. If you understand what she said, her words were neither crude nor profane at all. She basically shouted at the guy, “Hey, what are you doing with this mistress?” Unfortunately, the video translator subtitled that as “Hey, what are you doing with this b****?” That final b-word caused a further uproar among pastors, who were quick to condemn her for uttering profanities. A few of them wrote me angry emails calling Sun a “whore,” “hooker,” and other nastier, derogatory terms. Some said she was promoting free sex and immorality. But any intelligent, objective viewer would know that the whole drama is not about sex; if anything, it portrays the reality of a fallen secular world.

All these storms in a tea cup set me thinking of a bigger question: Are Christians living a sanitized life? Why have “Christian” productions been so ineffective in their reach to the unchurched, to the extent that even believers are not interested in their products?

In his book, Eyes Wide Open: Looking For God in Popular Culture, author William D. Romanowski talks about a 1993 survey, which reported that over 80 percent of all churchgoing Christians regularly go to the movies. When they were asked what they thought about Christian films, TV productions and Christian Contemporary Music, this was what they said:

1.	Christian popular arts are inferior imitations as compared to mainstream culture. To many, Christian music is substandard guitar pop and happy-clappy lyrics about Jesus. This is not surprising as many Christian artists feel that their main job is to preach the gospel and proclaim the faith. As such, artistic quality or creativity is not so important. But what they forget is that when people go to a movie or buy an album, their first desire is to be entertained. If they want to be preached to, they would have gone to church.
2.	Christian popular arts are unrealistic, sanitized versions of the real world. Some reviewers even use the phrase “wholesome shallowness” to describe them. Christian entertainment has come to mean movies and music appropriate for “family-only” audiences. That basically means kids-oriented programs or old-time TV reruns for senior citizens. Are Christians that naive and immature, living in a perpetual time warp of a bygone era, that we can’t handle the realities of the 21st century?
	As early as 1916, Hollywood had already discovered that 60 percent of theater owners wanted pictures that portray the real world—even if they contained themes on violence, sex and greed. This is because moviegoers want films that honestly and artistically address the issues of life.
3.	Christian popular arts are limited in content and purpose. If you listen to most CCM, you would think that all Christians do is worship and evangelize 24 hours a day, seven days a week. But people in general, Christians and non-Christians alike, don’t want to be preached to 24/7. They want a pop culture that is fun, entertaining, artistic and innovative. They are also concerned with the issues of life—and they enjoy it when those themes are addressed with artistic flair.
Everybody knows the trials and temptations of daily living. We are not immune to problems and tensions. We are all concerned about love and relationship, life and health, career and finances, the global economy and politics, war and peace, and our future. We are all trying to understand why things happen the way they do and how we can live our lives properly. Pop culture helps us to navigate through all that.
People get inspired and moved by U2, the biggest band in the world today. Their music captures a sense of religious longing and the struggle of living in a world torn by war, injustice and poverty. They enjoy movies like The Matrix, which speaks of an invisible world behind our natural world. They are moved by Schindler’s List (rated R) which touches on courage, sacrifice, and overcoming racism. CHC member, Jack Neo, is arguably the best movie director in Southeast Asia. His films, I Not Stupid I and I Not Stupid II, were box office hits because they realistically deal with the pressures of the rat-race in Asian societies.
Listeners and viewers cry buckets over these powerful songs and films. They may be secular, but people get touched by such productions more so than most Christian ones. If Christian pop culture is artistically inferior, unrealistically sanitized, and limited in content and purpose, is there any surprise that surveys regularly show that even churchgoers are not excited about them? No wonder Christian artists have such a difficult time selling their products beyond small book tables in churches.
The beautiful truth is that God is not against pop culture. There is a section of the Old Testament known as “The Writings,” covering books like Psalms, Job, Proverbs, Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes and Lamentations. Honestly, aren’t they the popular songs, dramas and musicals of biblical times? Psalms are songs of frustration, regret and anger, yet sung with love to a sometimes hidden God. Aren’t they like most tracks on the Billboard Chart? Job deals with the sufferings of life, and the desire to find meaning through them. Isn’t it like the Hollywood hit movie, Forest Gump, or the long-running Korean serial drama, Jewel In The Place? Proverbs deal with the danger of shortcuts, the snares of temptation, and the rewards of honesty. Aren’t they just like the cartoon series, The Simpsons? The Song of Solomon is about the obsession with love and the sensual. Just turn on any pop radio and we have our modern-day Song of Solomon being broadcasted 24/7. Ecclesiastes deal with the weariness of daily living in an imperfect world. Isn’t that portrayed in movies like Signs and The Pianist? Lamentations deal with grief. When one listens to most of Eric Clapton’s songs, aren’t they all about the dealing with grief?
Like the Old Testament writings themselves, pop culture is the collective wisdom of our generation. Popular arts explore social injustice, songs of sorrow, and even tributes to women. Like the Book of Esther, they may not even mention the name of God. Like Ecclesiastes, they suggest that in this life, bad things do happen to good people. Or like the Song of Solomon, they may celebrate romance and sex. These songs and movies may not have a salvational purpose, but nonetheless, they offer us the essential comfort and wisdom for living. As such, pop culture represents a powerful means of communicating to us what the real world is like, and how to live in it.
We are all products of our personal theological persuasions and convictions. Pop culture affects the lifestyles of the masses. Venturing into the realm of secular culture is certainly not for the weak or the fainthearted. What Sun is seeking to do is to show us how to be a modern-day Daniel or Joseph to our contemporary Babylon and Egypt. Daniel took on Babylon’s language, education, fashion, name and persona, and yet he didn’t compromise his own value system. According to the New Bible Commentary, Joseph was thoroughly “Egyptianized,” and yet he lived a great life of purpose. Esther, the super celebrity, was also similar. Sun simply wants to emulate these heroes of faith.
Can you remember John the Baptist questioning the authenticity of Jesus’ ministry when he heard about the latter’s working style? Jesus had become widely known as a friend of sinners, tax collectors, prostitutes and drunkards. He was even seen going to parties and events that the Pharisees themselves wouldn’t set foot in. John the Baptist was concerned that Jesus was becoming worldly, immoral and compromising—a bad example to the disciples. Our Lord’s reply to him was simply this: “Look at My fruits. Look at how the gospel is preached. ‘And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me’” (Matt. 11:6). The Greek word for “offended” is scandalizo, which means “to trip up, stumble, or be enticed to sin.” I would say the same to those religious critics who may be offended by Sun.
The “China Wine” music video was never meant for a church event. Neither was it ever intended to be an evangelism tool or a gospel video. It is simply pop entertainment. People watching the video and regarding it as just that will never get offended or stumbled, which explains the millions of hits and thousands of good reviews on YouTube.
So to the religious and conservatives who have used nasty, derogatory and expletive terms to describe Sun, my parting shot are the words of Jesus Christ from Matthew 21:31, *“I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.”*

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1,310 Responses to “Wholesome Shallowness?”

TKH on September 22nd, 2009 10:04 pm

Hi Pastor,

Thank you for addressing this issue. I have interacted with many Christians from traditional background and realised that it is really a struggle for them to comprehend the difference between the “secular” and “spiritual”. I think the church at large still need more understanding and clarification on the subject of “cultural mandate”. This article has been very helpful in addressing many of these issues.

To me, Sun is a modern day example of a Daniel or a Joseph. I think many Christian may judge Daniel or Joseph as a worldly person if they draw their conclusion purely from external observations, which explained the accusing remarks you mentioned Sun has suffered. I just want to applaud Sun for her courage in obeying what she believed God has called her to do. Certainly her fruits have testified what a manner of person she is, regardless of all those biased accusations.

Once again, thank you for an insightful article … I believe in the cultural mandate that God has given to CHC!

TKH
Terence Lee on September 22nd, 2009 10:16 pm

Unlike what many of her supporters will say, I think whatever redemptive message China Wine purports to have is lost on its viewers, unless one purposes to pay close attention to it.

My opinion is that most viewers just don’t pay so much attention to the “deep” meaning behind China Wine. The scant attention viewers pay to a 3 minute music video means that much of the intended message is lost, resulting in a very shallow and surface interpretation of the video…

As a result, they slam China Wine for promoting the clubbing lifestyle and liberal sexual values, and I don’t think they can be blamed. In Singapore especially, parents and religious leaders are very concerned by the influx of Western values brought in by the media, and when they see Sun “cross over” to the other side, they feel betrayed.

We should try to understand why people are upset over the video and address their concerns. Let’s not be quick to slam them as being “legalistic” so soon.

Nonetheless, Sun’s attempts to cross over should be applauded. It is not easy to traverse between East and West, and to be accepted by two opposing cultures. Singaporeans and Christians alike should support Sun and hope that she succeed.

I would also like to raise a scriptural point, which I have no answers to. What do you guys make of What do you make of 1 Cor 8:9-13:

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

Looking at this verse, can we say that Sun has stumbled “weak” Christians and thus sinned against Christ?
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LWL on September 22nd, 2009 11:33 pm

Hi Pastor

What an awesome article! Really impressed by what Sun is doing and shining for the Lord as an artiste! Embracing the pop culture!

She is a role model in living out the Cultural Mandate..and that includes you too, Pastor! You are an amazing couple, showing us that Christians need to be relevant in this 21st Century!

Thank you!
Aaron on September 22nd, 2009 11:34 pm

I offer only a humble consideration. In the economy of God, the means is as important as the end. If the Spirit brings insight, let that be a holy meditation as we seek to traverse the razor-edge of being in the world but not of it.
wenwinner on September 22nd, 2009 11:36 pm

Dear Pastor,

Wow! What an awesome entry! Personally, I feel that people should respect SUN as an artist and she has put Singapore on the World map, not just in Asia. I think it is very nasty of “christians” who make crude comments about her. I mean, if they are really Christians? As a Singaporean and a Christian, I am very proud of SUN cos she dare to do the impossible! She is an inspiration to me – to believe in the dreams that God has given to us and never give up! Pastor, please know that my family is very proud of SUN and you. Thanks for this fabulous entry. What SUN had done is truly remarkable, truly a heorine of faith!
KEN on September 22nd, 2009 11:47 pm

Well, perhaps thats the problem(s) that lies on their gap generation .. u see ^0^
Selwyn Lye on September 22nd, 2009 11:49 pm

Hi Pastor,

I really like this post as I’ve encountered people (Christians and Non-Christians) who thinks that Sun should not have gone into the entertainment industry at all and should be a good “pastor’s wife”. What you written here clearly summarised how should I respond to such criticism against Sun in the future. Thank you so much for putting it up for all to see what she is doing for His Kingdom.
JT on September 22nd, 2009 11:51 pm

As a singaporean, i’m just very proud of what Sun is doing. She’s not just a great entertainer, singer, dancer, but a does great humanitarian work beyond the 4 walls of the church. I see her more as a blessing than a problem to society. WELL DONE SUN! U’re so courages and amazing!
CC on September 23rd, 2009 12:01 am

Wow, Pastor Kong …

I am very touched by your entry!

Thank you for writing so honestly …

Sometimes, I don’t understand why all the religious ones have got a problem with Sun, when neither God nor you (as her husband) have a problem? Strange huh? :)

At the end of the day, Sun is living her life before God.

I think Sun is a very courageous woman. And I think you’re such a supportive husband.

May God be with you both always.
Melvin Chen on September 23rd, 2009 12:02 am

Dear Pastor,

Thank you once again for sharing. This is clearly so important for us to see things in the right perspective and without the shades of self-righteous religiousity. :)
ced on September 23rd, 2009 12:02 am

I just have to say, I’m proud of what SUN is doing. I used to not understand what she is doing because of the various rumors I’ve heard. It does not matter anymore, I just want to applaud her for all that she has done and is doing. For her bold and courageous move to move out of her comfort zone.

I was thinking through and came to this conclusion, if SUN wanna live a comfortable life, she could have just stayed here in Singapore doing her counseling etc but engaging pop culture is not about the glam or the fame only. Beyond, the fame I admire the despite of the comfortable status quo life she decided to start from square one to do what she really want to do. In doing so she has touched and changed many lives. Thank you SUN! She has changed my mindset and helped me realized that I have to real and relevant. Thanks for her sacrificial life. I respect her for running confidently after her dreams. SUN has been to many places many said they would go back never did!

I’m glad she did not decide to hide her talents but use it and we see the rewards what she has sown already…. More to come I believe. From Glory to greater Glory! :)

I’m proud that a SINGAPOREAN has dared to make a difference. Asian Invasion! VMAs next year? Go! Go! Go!

I did a project on SUN’s singing career and got an A for it! Kudos to her interesting life that its not enough space to write here …

Btw, If you are wondering, I’m not from CHC. SUN, truly proud of you and KONG, thanks for this blog post!
Michael Ng on September 23rd, 2009 12:05 am

A reply to a quote from Terence Lee:
“Unlike what many of her supporters will say, I think whatever redemptive message China Wine purports to have is lost on its viewers, unless one purposes to pay close attention to it.”

Comfortable with what Sun is doing or not, this comment more or less misses the point. Even leaving aside the storyline in the music video, it is a music video. Not a sermon. Not praise & worship. Not anything else. Just a music video. Yes it talks about real world issue and real world problems. But first and foremost, it’s entertainment. It’s what people want to see when they tune in to MTV.

Sun is an artiste. She makes music for the masses. To entertain people. If her music and videos cannot first of all entertain people, who really cares what message there may or may not be behind it? Of what impact can it be?

As far as the’ stumbling’ point goes, the counterpoint would be to ask whether it is ’stumbling’ or ‘correcting’. The way I look at it, the issue is more of correcting the way people perceive God, and allowing them to realise that God is far ‘cooler’ and ‘open’ than they would believe. In this way, God becomes more approachable (which He is) and actually serves to draw people closer to God, rather than stumbling them. The stumbling doesn’t occur because of this more accurate portrayal of God, but because of legalism and traditionalism.

Now I’ll readily admit to being rather shocked when China Wine first came out. Not really sure what to make of it at that moment. But even then, on a purely artistic note, it was awesome. Hard to believe that Fancy Free is even better, but it is. Unbelievable.

Anyhow, Pastor, thanks for the blog entry, and I don’t even know what to say about all those nasty remarks you received about your wife. To think we didn’t hear a whisper of it in church. You’re amazing Pastor.
Jucke W on September 23rd, 2009 12:09 am

I think its fine, as long Sun didn’t do any false movie stuff. Is just an act. And I believe, from Sun activity… She had save dozen and million of people to know Jesus our saviour. Her ministry is at movie scene. I think God have His own way to make His people repent from their sin, to be washed away. GBU Pastor
Mark collard on September 23rd, 2009 12:09 am

Hi there
I can appreciate what Ps Kong Hee is saying. However I think he has missed a key point. The critism that has been leveled at Sun is nothing to do with the fact that she is a pastors wife, but that she is a Christian who because of her success will influence many people. Ps Kong seems to suggest that because she is not employed by a churh or religious organisation it is ok for her to act in a sexually provocative way in a video. Because she is in pop then music it is ok for her to blend in with what is expected of usual pop stars. I disagree. Suns latest video would been just as contemporary and just as relaemt without scenes with her wearing highly suggestive outfits and questionable dance moves.
I am all for having Chriatians in the arts and having influence in this part of society, but now when her following will deem it ok for Christian to act in this way.
I am for one, dissapointed

Mark
Stillhaventfound on September 23rd, 2009 12:10 am

I’m one who has been uncomfortable with what Sun has been doing but have refrained from throwing stones at her. I’m glad that Pastor Kong Hee has stated his case. I think there will always be people on both sides of the issue. Having heard what Pastor Kong Hee has said, I have a bit more understanding about the reasons why Sun is doing what she’s doing, though still have my concerns. But I’m very happy to agree to disagree and not let this divide the body of Christ.

I think there’s a lot to think about for those on both sides of the issue. Those who think it’s a simple case of right or wrong I think are deceiving themselves. Pastor Kong Hee has some very good points, but there are others that I think he fails to address. Lots more can be said about this. But ultimately I think we can all have our convictions but the most important thing is to give Sun and Pastor Kong Hee the benefit of the doubt and not judge their motives wrongly. I do believe they are sincere in what they are doing. Not that sincerity is all that counts, but to me I’ve accepted Christians can be on both sides of the fence.

One thing we need to do is realize that Pastor Kong Hee and Sun are on our side. I think more than our condemnation, they need our prayers. There’s a lot of temptation in the field Sun is in and I’m sure it’s not easy that they are doing quite different things and spending a lot of time without each other. We would do well to pray for them.
Melvin Chen on September 23rd, 2009 12:13 am

Hi Terence,

I do not speak for Pastor Kong, but sharing my understanding and opinion to your comments.

Like what Pastor Kong had already explained and can also be clearly seen by all, christians or otherwise – China Wine is not about sex or clubbing lifestyle. Similar secular MVs which are more explicit are accepted, while China wine which is not even about sex is judged by the religious. The issue is with the religious – the eyes of religiousity, not the content.

On the stumbling block, there is a difference to between being stumbled or simply offended. Does Sun’s MV promote and cause prosmicuity or encourage clubbing? Clearly no. Nobody is stumbled. The religious are offended though.

If we fear offending men, we will end up doing nothing. Anything we do can offend, even if there is nothing wrong at all. Even Jesus offended many, especially the religious. They too called him a stumbling block for hanging around sinners, even though he clearly didn’t stumble anyone to sin.

To stumble means to cause others to think its okay and become licentious to sin.
Jucke W on September 23rd, 2009 12:13 am

I believe that God has His own way through Sun. All I can say is Sun ministry is not @church, but from her acting. And I believe, many of her colleagues had received Jesus as their saviour through Sun. So don’t worry Pastor, just relax and keep saying thanks giving, even though all other Pastor critics you, make that something for You to grew more and Go up more. GBU Pastor
Ho C K on September 23rd, 2009 12:15 am

Pastor, I’m married with 2 kids so I’d defend my wife till death like you’ve done. And so I understand this post. However, since you’ve used Daniel as an example, perhaps you’d indulge me some sanctified imagination to propose an imaginary, alternate universe and see how it plays out.

Scenario: SUN was forced into the music industry against her will (Daniel in Babylonian captivity). She was forced to learn the lingo & practice the dance moves. (Babylonian culture). She’s about to shoot her MTV when she realizes that it requires her to wear skimpy dressing and dance sexily (Daniel’s issue with food).

She tells the MTV director that because of her commitment to God, she could not do it (Daniel’s request to abstain). The MTV director says, “I fear my boss. What if your MTV fails to sell well?” (Eunuch’s fear of the king).

She suggests to the director to shoot her MTV with her in conservative dressing and compare the sales with her contemporaries (Daniel’s request for the food challenge). This request was accepted.

It was the talk of the town. Her MTV sales blew away the rest of her contemporaries. (Daniel’s appearance was better than his contemporaries). Her God was glorified due to her commitment to God.

End scenario.
lisa on September 23rd, 2009 12:16 am

Wow, what a blog :)
Pastor, u and Sun are so relevant for us nowadays..

As in soccer match, I think everyone knows about this, the watchers can only yell and be angry to the strikers who cannot make goals, or to the goalkeeper who fails to block the ball.
They can only throw many many critical statement to the players on field.
Why does this happen? This happens because they do see from their view.
But the real condition and the “big picture” is not on them. On the players instead.

Personally, I do respect for all that u guys are trying to do.
Keep be fruitful. Let the world taste the fruit, let the “unchurch” people taste it.
Their health can be seen after it. Good health or bad health.
And I’m sure, they’re getting the right healthy fruit :)

God bless, pastor :)
Daniel Richard on September 23rd, 2009 12:22 am

I didn’t too much notice on the subtitles part in the China Wine vid. Though it makes sense to use the B* word rather than the other, as it gives that scene (line) better impact.

That’s a minute thing which — and maybe — is nothing of an issue to take offense with. :)
from the 80s on September 23rd, 2009 12:26 am

I grew up in the 80s when it was cool among my Christian friends to have T-shirts with Christian slogans on them. It was also cool to have the the little fish symbol on ur car, pinned on ur knapsack, pasted on ur textbooks.

Well, with such ‘outright’ declarations of our faith then, NO ONE ever asked where I got the shirt from, or if they could have the sticker too! It didn’t draw any non-Christians to me. I think it might have even repelled them…just in case I start telling them about Jesus.

I’m so proud of what you have taught about the Cultural Mandate. That it is through this that the people in the world are drawn more to us and to God. It is certainly so important to be relevant!

What Sun did in China Wine is phenomenal. She opened the eyes of many to show them what music and dance can do. It drew people to her and definitely catapulted her to more fame. This in turns allows her to demonstrate God in the many areas of her life.

I do not think China Wine was a stumbling block. If it were, then so would the many MVs around. The religious have much to say as they don’t see much. I assume with the little that they are exposed to, it is easier for them to pass a judgement and comment, than to check out what else is the world involved in.

I’m proud of you Pastor, for putting your life and Sun’s on the pedestal. You’ve shown the world that Christians are in touch with what’s happening around them and are not living lives dressed in slogan printed tees.
Melvin on September 23rd, 2009 12:42 am

Hi Mark Collard,

How are the outfits highly suggestive? Its gym wear beneath, revealed nothing.

I don’t think the videos suggest that it is okay to act in any ‘way’. It simply shows what the real world is, as explained in the blog, it was about a girl who took an extra job at a nightclub, just as there are in the real world.

So did the video ’stumble’ – or specifically encourage or cause people to live promiscuiously? Quite obviously not.
Edmund on September 23rd, 2009 12:43 am

Hi Terence

I think that u must realize that people tend to judge others by their appearances – even though we may express reservations about it.

I think that is the reason why the Pharisees “jumped” upon Jesus, when they saw him eating and fellowshipping with Prostitutes and Tax collectors.

Even John the Baptist was concerned, But Jesus said “Look at my fruits…!” Should readers instead look at our own works before casting the first stone!

A stumbling block is something that causes you to sin. Do you personally know of anybody who left the faith due to her video, or rather just people who have differing views to her style of crossing over. I think the community can agree to disagree on this topic, as it is non consequential to our faith!

When we look at the music video, we must once again understand that it was done for the Music Entertainment Industry and not for an Evangelistic Meeting. Christians therefore need to look at the Music Video, from a non-traditional, non-static viewpoint!

If one has been following the MTV industry, you would also know that the video is considered mild and “non-eyebrow” raising to the veterans in the Industry. Isn’t this the standard, that the video should be pitched against, considering that it was made for this industry.

Personally, I will agree with your earlier statements that we should applaud and celebrate her bravery. Sun’s continual humanitarian works to build 8 schools and 2 Orphanages show her continual commitment to her faith and to loving her neighbor.

Sun has been a shinning light in this dark industry, and let’s adopt a new paradigm, when we look at her works.
Melvin on September 23rd, 2009 12:45 am

Titus 1:15 says to the pure, all things are pure.

If her outfits can be imagined as suggestive, then something is wrong, cause even on the streets, girls in casual wear, wear even shorter stuff…

To those who’s imaginations are inclined to a certain direction….everything is suggestive.
Victoria Cooper on September 23rd, 2009 12:46 am

I really believe that if you are a Christian & you are offending the “religious folks” within our world of cristianity… you must be doing something right. Jesus didn’t come to add more rules to the book… but narrow it down to two laws, “love God & love people”… I do not see where she is breaking the decree’s of God. I have noticed that there are many old school “older” christians that all feel the same… “no tattoo’s, no piercings, no extreme hair styles/color, no secular music, no dancing, no participation in pop culture…or else” I understand we are supposed to be in this world but not of it; however, I believe that this is pertaining to heart attitudes & sympathies toward widely accepted evil. Now, I see what Sun is doing & it makes me excited because she is getting out of the box. I see her work as art. The younger generations see art in a broader sense… to us art is dance, it’s dress/style, how you do your make-up, costumes you wear for videos, music videos, music. All these things are in the category of ART. I watched Sun’s newest music video like 15+ times (Fancy Free) and I totally loved it! I was facinated by the vocals, the costume, the character’s, and how the whole video was made… to me it was a masterful excellent piece of art. Many older generations have a belief that the only thing that fits in the category of art is paintings & drawings. But this is not true… I appreciate art of many forms… and as a christian I have refused to have a religious or legalistic mind-set that crushes creativity. We were created to be creative… let’s do it!
Andrew on September 23rd, 2009 12:50 am

Interesting post.

I agree with Pst Kong that venturing into the secular arena is certainly not for the weak or faint-hearted. And we have to commend them for their courage to try something like that.

These are our brothers and sisters being sent forth into the most dangerous and darkest arenas in society to shine in the midst of darkness. They will need our prayers more than ever.

In a way, the Gospel has always been about the clean touching the unclean. Fellowshiping with the downcasts of society, engaging culture and the marketplace were things that Jesus did and Im not surprised to find out that, miracles do happen in the midst of culture and the marketplace wherever Jesus went.

Basically, in short..

To be like Christ is to do what Jesus did.
And as Singaporeans, we do what PM Lee says,
Never to mix religion with secularity.

Whatever we do, wherever we go, we stand strong on our convictions and do it to the best of our abilities for the glory of God.
Sex sells, so admit it. « Paperback Typewriter on September 23rd, 2009 12:52 am

[...] sells, so admit it. Just read Singapore pastor Kong Hee’s article defending his wife’s China Wine video and explaining how it is not actually un-Christian of [...]
sinae wu on September 23rd, 2009 12:53 am

As a wife of minister who gave ten years of his life for the Gospel and also all his inheritance, I used to think there is only one way to serve God as minister and minister’s wife-”full time ministry”. But God encouraged us to go out and take time to prove ourselves also in the secular world. My husband is now taking a break and working as an accountant at a big company in London and I’m about to become a music teacher for secondary schools. There is no doubt that we will come back to the so called “ministry world”, but before we do that we want to build up healthy foundation for our family, which involves hard working, not depending on other people’s money & politic anymore, being fruitful & successful and most of all having real understanding of how it is like to be “normal human being”. We believe it is time for ministers to show young(er) people new model of being salt & light in the world. They should no longer be afraid of being themselves and achieving their dreams. In that point pastor Kong Hee and his wife Sun is a great example of how to combine the passion for Jesus and achieving the maximum of one’s gift and talent in excellent way, which is the duty of us all.
Because I studied classical music I don’t know much about Pop Music but I really admire Sun Ho for who she is. She is such a brave woman who showed young people that there is nothing wrong about being free to be themselves. She is such a great pioneer.
I pray the Lord that he may keep on pouring down his blessings and protect her all the way trough.
JS on September 23rd, 2009 12:54 am

Dear Pastor,

In a world where many talk but few actually do it, it’s very refreshing to read this posting on how you have followed up your preaching with the actual engagement of the marketplace.

For those of us who are not hiding behind a screen and a keyboard or within the four walls of an institution, temptations to compromise abound daily.

Without doubt, the entertainment industry is one where such temptations abound with greater intensity and Sun’s resilience in the face such temptations is worthy of our respect and admiration.

Just as Roger Bannister broke the mental barrier of the “4-minute” mile in 1954, Sun is now breaking the mental (and religious?) barrier of fear in engaging the marketplace.

Regardless of what others may say, as a businessman running an outfit in an industry well known for deceit, misrepresentation, lack of integrity, etc. , I am greatly encouraged to hold on to my Christian values and ethics and to keep on fulfilling the Cultural Mandate by what Sun is doing to engage the marketplace.

Her fruits in the kingdom of God is solid proof of the God-inspired motive behind what she has done.

Keep on keeping on!

To Terence,

As much as we are entitled to our own opinions, before making our opinions public, do heed these advice:

1) Before you throw the 1st stone, look into your own life. Why do you feel stumbled or offended?

“To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.” Titus 1:15

2) Before you judge, why not walk a mile in Sun’s shoes? If you can do 10% of what she has done and endure 1% of what she is going through….

To Mark Collard:

I think the person who missed a key point is not Ps Kong Hee.

The level of influence an artiste has depends very much on the success of that artiste. If Sun is totally irrelevant, she will never be successful, and hence her level of influence will not be high.

What Sun is doing to be relevant in the pop culture she is engaging in does not mean that she has taken upon herself the values and the ethos of that culture.

On the contrary, she is actively upholding her Christian values in that culture so that she can be the “salt of the earth and the light of the world”.

Just as “clothes do not maketh a man”, the culture we engage in does not make us any lesser of a Christian. Look at the biblical examples of Joseph and Daniel… As can be seen, this relevance is what makes us that ‘connector’ to God for many of our unsaved friends and family.

As an Asian, in my culture, I kneel before my elders as a sign of respect. So when I perform this act, am I in obedience to God by keeping the 5th Commandment of honoring my parents, or am I disobeying God by breaking the 1st Commandment (as many see kneeling as idolatry)?

I believe in the former since my parents are now saved because they have seen and believed that I do not serve a “western” God who teaches us to abandon our parents.

A tree is judged by it’s fruits…

Selah…

JS
Victoria Cooper on September 23rd, 2009 12:55 am

Concerning her new video “Fancy Free”, I have a feeling the “religious folks” are not going to like this video either… and she is fully covering herself throughout the entire video… :-)
sasa on September 23rd, 2009 12:56 am

well, we don’t need Sun to tell us that art = dance, music etc
js29 on September 23rd, 2009 12:58 am

Hi pastor,

can’t agree more. really am saddened by the amount of narrow-minded Christian critics out there.. thanks for always teaching us to see theres always different sides to a coin. you taught us acceptance, to be open to the ideas of great people who may be different from us. to know that while the message is sacred, the methods are not. and most importantly, to remain not judgmental in the face of controversy but to give grace.

what you and Sun are doing far exceeds what many of us dream of doing for our society, for the kingdom of God. may your lives be living testimony for all the critics out there.

pastor, i support you not out of a blind loyalty, but because all these years i’ve been in CHC, you’ve proven to be a loving spiritual father, an amazing leader, worthy of my trust. you and Sun deserve every ounce of our respect and love… thank you!
karen on September 23rd, 2009 12:59 am

Hi Pastor. Firstly, your post has enlightened me considerably with different viewpoints that are very thought-provoking. I totally understand what you have put across. However, what I think should be considered are those who blindly think that because Sun Ho is a Christian singer and married to a pastor, everything she does is right / not wrong, and thus are led to believe that it’s okay to be like how she was in the video. It’s a wrong way of thinking, of course, but there are undoubtedly people who would think like that, and may be vulnerable to being led astray. It’s very possible to address real problems / issues in life and garner a great audience without having to touch on controversy. Of course, we all love controversy because it strikes thinking etc., but there are the weaker and more vulnerable Christians to be taken into consideration too.

But great post anyway. Thank you Pastor!
Ray on September 23rd, 2009 1:05 am

Pastor:
I love SUN and her music. Yet from a pure art and entertainment point of view please allow me to give this comment: The Music Video of China Wine wasn’t executed well enough to understand the concept. I feel sad and frustrated that it would cause audience to misunderstand SUN is promoting that lifestyle. As much I am a fan of SUN, it hurts to see that the song didn’t achieved what it was made for. For me personally ,although the video was made from an A-list production, it didn’t measure up of the expectation.

Giving the example of “SUN aka Geisha” vs the movie “Memoirs of a Geisha”, we both can see the beautiful costume and visual art ; both are dealing with controversial lifestyles, but the movie had much more layers and emotion in it. After watching the movie, you would feel sad for the protagonist what she all had been though because she was sold to the Geisha house, yet still feel happy for her that she gained happiness at last. Compared to the movie, the MV didn’t had any emotion at all. The cheating scene wasn’t really a scene, the protagonist probably should have split the table in Kung-Fu style to make it look like really, really angry , which brings me to the next point: The characters of the role wasn’t portrayed well enough to understand that she had to do an extra job to make money for the family. She’ wearing that amazing dress, and instead of it being a contrast to meet days end, dancing fiercely in it made her look actually more glamorous and confident in that outfit, like she’s actually enjoying that lifestyle.
I am not saying that Christian produce all positive and inspirational stories, I am saying if you want to express sadness, it should look like sadness. If you want to express furious, it should look like really furious. All I am saying is that the MV didn’t do what it should have.
I believe this has something to do with SUN’s acting skills. Nobody can blame her for that: She is a singer, not an actress. So having choosing the China Wine story line was a big risk for her, but… there is good news. In her new MV “Fancy Free”, Sun plays the role much more better. Probably because it was an abstract concept which can be better achieved by Sun’s amazing dancing skills and her imagination. The production team has showed her strength by creating the emotions in the choreography and her wardrobe style. The MV created a dark yet playful world and compared to the China Wine, Sun has truly become a real role in this surreal story: Finally, she can easily express what the she is trying to, maybe that is because she feels like herself in it —so fancy free.

Thank you pastor for this article. Wishing all the best for SUN in her new album!

Ray from Taiwan
———————————————
PS:I know that was a loooooooong comment. I just really love her, and I hope this comment wasn’t too harsh about the MV.
treehugger45 on September 23rd, 2009 1:05 am

Hi pastor Kong, just wish to say, as a Singaporean,
I’m proud of what Sun is doing. I mean, how many Singaporeans
Actually made it to Hollywood?!
Instead of criticising her, why can’t
We just celebrate her success? Especially
Those in the body of Christ. I believe Jesus
Is a relevant Saviour. Christianity ought to be
Relevant as well. Perhaps it’s time for Christians
To realise, they’ve been saved for good works.
karen on September 23rd, 2009 1:09 am

I completely agree with you.
karen on September 23rd, 2009 1:09 am

Oops, I meant I completely agree with Ray, sorry.
Sharon Toh on September 23rd, 2009 1:10 am

Pastor Kong Hee,
What you’ve just mentioned here in this blog post is fantastic!!
Everyone has different calling from the Lord. Sun is just being called to ‘preached’ to the ‘unchurched’ in a different manner… through her media works.
Well done, Sun!
Ray on September 23rd, 2009 1:11 am

to karen: You also loved “Fancy Free” better than China Wine? That’s so cool!
H. Liao on September 23rd, 2009 1:13 am

I respect your views but i still don’t get it. I have no prob when xtians wan to make an impact in pop culture. However, my only gripe is why can’t Sun maintain her pop status by upholding wholesome family values (prior to 2007)? Why must she be at the fringe of pop culture, i.e. club culture? Why must she promote debauchery and overt sexuality through her music? In the music scene, there are many pop singers who are successful and popular without resorting to the overt sexual portrayal in china wine? Yes i agree sex sells but i can think of artistes such as Colbie Caillat, Alicia Keyes, Kelly Clarkson or even Leona Lewis whose music videos are not as “wild” as china wine.

Pop music has many expressions. MJ sings of world peace. U2 sings of love. REM sings of alienation. Jason Mraz sings of relationships. Pink sings of emancipation and female empowerment. Why can’t Sun sing about something she is zealous for? An artiste expresses his/her values through their songs/performances. One wonders what are Sun’s values. My kids have certainly watch more raunchy shows & music videos than china wine but i have a very tough time explaining why a xtian artiste must portray as such? Wat values and convictions drove Sun to invest time, resources & $ to do a song and music video that promotes overt sexuality?

Let’s not talk about Sun’s xtian faith. If we leave that out of the equation, her music video would still offend non-xtian, conservative Asians. Ask any Muslim woman or a Hindu man, or even an Atheist. Yes, her target audience may not be those who listen to Doris Day or Karen Carpenter but i know of youths who squirm when they see female pelvic thrusting and gyrating. If Sun wants to build orphanages and launch social services, can’t she dance and sing without making men and even women blush?

Sun needs to understand that she is a role model to many people, including xtian girls. To be honest, i would rather have these young impressionable girls look up to Pink. At least her song, “Stupid girls” is a reminder for girls not to idolize the hypersexual personae of female celebrities. I know Sun has done much good for humanity (e.g. raising funds for Sinchuan earthquake, etc). Unfortunately, the good she has done is being diminished and distracted by her stage persona. I want my kids to look up to a female role model who is real. I want a female role model who is true to herself and the values she stands. I want a female role model who will tell the girls that their self-worth is not measured by their costumes, appearance or behaviour.

Lastly, I used to be “offended” by Sun’s china wine video but I am now more offended when Jesus’ own words are twisted and taken out of context to justify or defend a person’s actions. I take greater offence when one compares Sun’s “offence” to the “offence” of our Lord Jesus. His offence is incomparable in light of humanity and eternity. Peace!
Adriana on September 23rd, 2009 1:17 am

I grew up in a very traditional church since I was a child
I saw many of my peers one by one drop out and leave church.

Church leaders didnt understand what we went through. They had strong judgmental approach upon young people.

I was influenced and became a self righteous and judgmental person and I did feel that I discouraged my non christian friends to come to church.

So what is all this talk about STUMBLING!

Judgmental people are a greater stumbling block than cool people

Prideful people are a greater stumbling block than relatable people.

There is no greater stumbling block than being a religious pharisee.

I was a pharisee, and I know for sure that I was a stumbling block to many
lisa on September 23rd, 2009 1:21 am

Ooh, one more, Pastor Kong..
According to your previous blog, I love this one :)

“Opposition may come through those who are anti-Christians or anti-Church. But most of the time, opposition will come from religious believers who are against our way of life and the freedom we enjoy in Christ. They want to keep us locked up in the little box of religious correctness.
I am never worried of the enemies without. They may inflict some pain but they can’t stop us. In the last 20 years we have gone through many trials, testings and tribulation―for me, for my wife, and for all of us. Yet, in Christ Jesus, we have overcome them all. We have grown bigger and stronger.”

God bless, pastor :)
Terence Lee on September 23rd, 2009 1:25 am

JS,

I’m sure you can do better than that. You accuse me of judging, but are you yourself judging me?

All I do is to raise points for discussion, and to clear doubts I have. Let’s keep it that way. Is disagreeing with a point of view judging? I don’t think so.

Edmund,

I understand what you are trying to say when a stumbling block is something that causes you to sin. But my question is: Does 1 Cor 8:9-13 define it that way? It seems more to me that a “stumbling block” is an exercise of liberty, which in itself is not sin. It becomes a sin when Christians with weak conscience is offended.

A few people have misunderstood me saying that I think Sun has been a stumbling block. Well she certainly has offended and maybe stumbled a few people (we can never know rite), but I personally have no problems with that. I think she is right to do what she does.

It’s brave of her to face all these criticisms.
karen on September 23rd, 2009 1:25 am

Ray: I was talking more about your take on China Wine, heh :x

Really agree with Adriana and H. Liao too, although both views are contrasting. We must keep Christians in the “real” world and portraying real problems and reaching out through pop culture is important, yes, but taking it to extremes like that is a little… uncalled for. So many stars have made it to fame without needing a video like that. Then again, as said by Ray, it was the video’s failure to portray the real meaning of the video.
GTR on September 23rd, 2009 1:28 am

I can imagine just how offensive Jesus must have been to certain people of His generation, but we all know He did what was right.

For Sun to be offensive to the pharisaical fraternity, I say WHAT’S NEW??

Stuff like that is not for the weak in faith, not for those who choose to remain nominal in faith, and certainly not for those who have a religious outlook but yet inside are full of dead men’s bones.

I’d love to see how Sun will be judged for her works during the judgment seat of Christ.

AND THEN, i’d love to see just what kind of rewards those who called her a whore would be getting.

OH WAIT.. or maybe we will see that during the separation of the goats from the sheep?

:D :D :D
Reuel Eugene on September 23rd, 2009 1:29 am

Hi Pastor, Thanks for edifying us further! Please keep on keeping on!

Hi Terence, please note that causing christians to ’stumble’, simple put, means to cause them to stumble in their faith towards God. So, lets get our facts right first. :) Personally, so far I have not seen any new christians give up on their faith just because they saw Sun’s video.

Because to them, Sun’s video is contemporary and they can easily treat it as a form of music entertainment or transit it from christianity to pure entertainment per se. Like what pastor said, Sun’s songs is really for everyone believers or not, and not just reserved to those in the christiandom. Her songs are really about dealing with the struggles of everyday life like many of the celebs out there. Her songs is definitely a more positive avenue to turn to for the trouble people, than others out in the market.

And to top it off, news about Sun is not of negative reports such as some other celebrities but on the other hand, praise reports of all the humanitarian work she is doing in China not to mention she is the charity ambassador for China etc.

I for one thought that the songs were catchy, the costumes were innovative and flashy, no wonder she is doing so well (for an Asian) in the US. :)

Hi Mark collard, maybe at where you are right now, it’s not about being a pastor’s wife, but at one point of time in S’pore, this was the case as Sun was wrongly accused for many false accusations. So please allow Pastor exercise some freedom in addressing this issue.

If I may ask you a question, how is Sun’s video sexually provocative to you? C’mon, break a leg, it is simply just dance moves plus flashy colorful costumes to appeal to the masses in the US. Why do you seem to have so much negative thoughts towards all that? Would you think so much if it is some other celebrities such as Stacie Orrico or Carrie Underwood that’s doing that vid? (Which I believe are christians too)

Before you throw all your allegations, please do find out for yourself why her songs are top at the US billboards in the first place. Find out for yourself if it is because of her dressing or compromising of her faith which won her top of the charts. In my opinion, she is making waves in the US, being a fine example to other celebs that one can be famous yet not conform to doing drugs, free sex and so on. :)

Hi Stillhaventfound, thank you for choosing not to criticise Sun. :) You were saying you have some doubts about some matters that were unturned? Perhaps you could share with pastor so that he could address such issues personally just as pastor have addressed questions which I have for him. :)

Indeed, it is more blessed to agree to disagree than to disagree and cause an unnecessary commotion. :)

With that said, I believe Sun has had a tough time, transiting from choir director in the past to bilingual pop singer proficient in both Mandarin and English, and enduring countless allegations from the media and some fellow brothers and sisters. Not to mention, doing all that with a medical history like that. (Sun has a long medical history which some was close to fatal and continues to plague her at times till today)

Sun is not perfect, just as we all are. But she is definitely making a positive impact possibly 1,000 times or more, than any of us. So lets continue to support Sun and her work as she continues to quietly minister to other celebs out there who are having depressions, taking care of her child, little Dayan and all that she is doing in China. (Sun’s aim is to build 100 schools in China with her own finances I believe)

God bless,
Reuel Eugene.
Legolas lover on September 23rd, 2009 1:29 am

Dear Pastor,
am personally very proud of Sun and my heart always leaps with joy whenever there’s any good news abt her. I love the China Wine and the latest Fancy Free music video. Totally agree with what you said about taking on a stage person; Fiction ain’t fact. I think she’s really doing a great job! Keep the music coming!
Stew Law on September 23rd, 2009 1:33 am

Had friends in the 70’s who were rockers who got saved & became pastors. They used rock to reach the youth. By all means save some. So the question is not propriety according to some but souls saved. I love rock but many pastors have had no exposure – sanitized, as you put it and write it off completely. Let’s not be burdened by other people’s hatreds and prejudices, lest we get sucked into their bondage to self-righteousness. “Father forgive them for they do not know what they do.” Shake the dust off your feet and move on. Life is too short to let pettiness disturb obeying God’s personal call on us.
Francis Seow-Choen on September 23rd, 2009 1:35 am

ABSOLUTELY spot on! You are God’s man for this hour
Terence Lee on September 23rd, 2009 1:37 am

Sometimes, it is not only the truth that matters, but the perception of the truth. Despite what Pastor Kong and Sun says about China Wine, why is it that so many people are offended by it? Granted, they have their own conservative biases, but surely the video itself has failed to communicate the desired values that it seeks to portray? Perhaps the meaning is lost in the gyrating and suggestive dance moves?

Personally, I’m not at all surprised if conservative folks are offended by the video.

Putting things into context, we shouldn’t judge Sun based on China Wine alone. Let’s look at things in the larger context of what she’s doing — breaking into the American market as a Singaporean pop singer, without compromising on your own cultural values.

It’s certainly no easy feat.
Terence Lee on September 23rd, 2009 1:40 am

Reuel,

you misinterpreted me. Refer to comment posted on 25 Sept, 1.25am. Thanks.
“Wholesome Shallowness?” « That Sail on September 23rd, 2009 1:40 am

[...] “Wholesome Shallowness?” 23 09 2009 Venturing into the realm of secular culture is certainly not for the weak or the fainthearted. What Sun is seeking to do is to show us how to be a modern-day Daniel or Joseph to our contemporary Babylon and Egypt. Daniel took on Babylon’s language, education, fashion, name and persona, and yet he didn’t compromise his own value system. According to the New Bible Commentary, Joseph was thoroughly “Egyptianized,” and yet he lived a great life of purpose. Esther, the super celebrity, was also similar. Sun simply wants to emulate these heroes of faith. -extract from Pastor Kong Hee’s latest post “Wholesome Shallowness” [...]
Omega boy on September 23rd, 2009 1:45 am

Dear H. Liao

I believe one should pull one’s head out of the well, before we accuse people of “promoting debauchery”.

Should I also cast stones on you as well, and call you a “Slanderer” and a ‘White Washed Tomb”, if I have differences in opinions with u!

Music is a matter of taste!

I think it is great that Alicia Keyes has her own brand of music, and so does Kelly Clarkson. I think it is great that u can identify with these artists as well, but different people have differing tastes!

Must we all align our musical tastes and direction, when ultimately music is a matter of taste. Some like U2, some like REM, some like MJ – they all have different preferences for beats and rhythm,

As highlighted by Pastor Kong Hee, China Wine is a Video. It is a character and a role she plays. To base your comments about her lifestyle in a 3min snippet musical drama – would therefore justify me dismissing your comments as judgemental as well!

In a video, we are brought to a world of make believe! It is just like a Christian playing the role of Judas Iscariot in a “Jesus” movie. If someone was to play Judas for 3 min (or even more), would it suggest that the Christian lives a murderous life of betrayal as well?

I think we need to get real and put this MV in its context.

Sun has continued to be a good role model by winning the Outstanding Young Person of the World award, and being an ambassador for the Special Olympics. I wonder what are your latest contributions to humanity?

Lastly, I am more offended by your stones and you imposing your views than anything else!
jov on September 23rd, 2009 1:55 am

Pastor, you have my full support. Thou iam still young but when i grow older i will maintain and continue God’s will for you and sun’s vision for Asia, with all my life and all my talents : )
Terence Lee on September 23rd, 2009 1:56 am

Michael Ng,

“Even leaving aside the storyline in the music video, it is a music video. Not a sermon. Not praise & worship. Not anything else. Just a music video.”

You are right of course, it is a music video. But people associate what you do with who you are. To them, it’s not just a music video, it identifies your values. For example, if I were to buy a Toyota Prius, it demonstrates how I am committed to environmentalism.

Similarly, a MV is a vehicle of one’s values.
Edmund on September 23rd, 2009 2:00 am

Hi Terence,

With reference to 1 Corn 8:9-13, the topic was about food offered to idols.

As highlighted by Omega Boy, Music is a matter of taste. Everyone has differing opinions when it comes to music. Some may like Nat King Cole, others Bon Jovi.

I do not believe that the verse is meant to restrict us in matters of taste and in areas inconsequential to our faith.

I like Chicken Rice. If your uncle opens a chicken rice stall – does it mean that I can only eat chicken rice from your uncle’s stall?

Does this situation hold? Especially when you tell me that u will be offended, when I do not patronize from your uncle’s shop!

I do not think that your “offense” should restrict my tastes! I should be able to eat and enjoy my food, especially when it is inconsequential to our faith!

Maybe I should eat only chicken rice in another hawker center, in another world?!?

After all, the MTV is meant for people involved in the MTV world!
Justine on September 23rd, 2009 2:02 am

Hi Pastor,

Thanks for standing up and posting this blogpost. I am sure you have already been prepared that the critics would come in, before you clicked the “PUBLISH” button. But I am just so encouraged that you stood in courage Pastor!

I am proud of what Sun is doing too, and indeed her fruits are many! I have watched her MVs and personally I feel that they are really amazing! My friends (unchurched) thinks it is artistic, especially the new video, “Fancy Free”. I think that the unchurched and the world are appreciating Sun’s gift in the field of Arts and Entertainment.

Sun has really made an impact the past few years! She is truly shining as a salt and light in the world. But I know that even greater things have yet to come, and I am so looking forward to her new album.

To all critics:

I have no intention to point finger or judge anyone that has posted negative and judgemental comments/remarks about Sun.

In the first place, we are not called to judge. Especially believers, we know the bible has clearly stated:

John 8:7-9 (NKJV)

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Please, cast down your stones of judgement. If you are a Christian and a believer, you are to build up and strengthen the body of Christ, not tear it down! Sun needs our prayer, not our criticism.

With God’s Love,
Justine
LYL on September 23rd, 2009 2:07 am

Dear Pastor,
Thanks so much for such an insightful article! As a Singaporean and fellow believer, I am so proud of what Sun is doing and what she has achieved. Her latest single, “Fancy Free” music video, is a brilliant masterpiece! Sun is just getting better and better, setting the standard for what I would call ‘GREAT MUSIC’!

I totally agree with you that in our world that is crying out for truth and relevance, our Christian response should not be just ‘God, God, God’, “worship, worship, worship,” and “soul-winning, soul-winning, soul-winning’.

[Kong Hee] The unchurched throughout Asia loves Sun and views her as an exemplary model to the youths of society.

The reason why the unchurched loves Sun is because she is relevant! Just as the Jews demanded for signs and the Greeks looked for wisdom, the next generation wants relevance.

[Kong Hee] Pop culture represents a powerful means of communicating to us what the real world is like, and how to live in it.

As believers, we should not be afraid to engage culture, to be relatable to a real world with real problems—a world struggling with pain, grief, frustration, broken hearts, shattered dreams and wariness of life. Jesus likewise, won the hearts of the people, and thereby over to God, because he chose to be relatable to the real needs of the people. He did not isolate himself from them by being in the temple 24/7, reading the scriptures and praying all day! He was relatable to everyone, the disciples, the taxcollecters, the prostitutes and sinners. I salute Sun for being “a modern-day Daniel” and “Joseph to our contemporary Babylon and Egypt”, venturing into secular culture as an agent of His common grace.

Having said that, I would like to address the concerns that Mark Collard has about Sun…

It would be very shallow to conclude who Sun is just by looking at face value the ‘role’ she plays in the Chinawine MV. Just because a Christian believer plays the role of Judas Iscariot in a drama, it does not mean that in real life, he has backslidden! One has to separate fiction from fact.

Let us also not forget that Sun is one professional entertainer that has given back much to the society, and in that process, demonstrate the love of God to the unchurched. Indeed, the number of schools, hospitals and orphanages that she has helped build using her royalties is simply amazing!

Pastor Kong and Sun, thanks for showing us what the cultural mandate is all about!
Jared L on September 23rd, 2009 2:09 am

Hi Pastor,

Thank you for sharing your heartfelt thoughts on SUN and her bravery in embodying a real person living out the Cultural Mandate.. My wife and I are so PROUD of her and salute her perseverance in pursuing her dreams despite the brickbats which sometimes sadly were cast by the very people who professed the same faith as her. She has set the benchmark especially in this part of the world how a Christian can pursue his/her talent, stay relevant but yet not compromise on her values and be a tremendous blessing and inspiration to the generations of tomorrow.

IMHO, the attire SUN were clothed in the MTVs like Fancy Free and China Wine were really cool and help to make the story telling behind the MTVs so compelling. I don’t see why some of us can get stumbled by her dressing, not when we watch sports like tennis and beach volleyball freely on cable tv with the ladies dressed in much skimpier outfits!

To those who are stumbled by a Christian dancing or dressed MTV style, there are many instances of Christians who excel in what they do but are they really stumbling others? Think Michael Chang competing in a Grand Slam final on Sundays (supposedly Sabbath), or triple jump world record holder Jonathan Edwards choosing to compete on Sundays, how about ex Austrialian Idol winner Guy Sebastian sporting a big tattoo on his bicep? Let’s not harp on the minors like the Pharises did and let’s focus on the major positives…. You continue SHINING BRIGHT, SUN!

Phil 4: 8

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy–meditate on these things.
Reuel Eugene on September 23rd, 2009 2:31 am

Hi H. Liao, please clarify as to who you’re referring to as twisting Jesus’ own words.

How has Sun promote debauchery and overt sexual portrayal? Please do not be confused that Sun is trying to sell sex, which without of a shadow of a doubt, she is not!

In ancient times, Sun’s actions could very much be like Jesus’ as He dined with the deemed unworthy such as the prostitutes and the tax collectors.

Jesus says:
“And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.” – Matthew 11:6

See, Jesus dining with the prostitutes and tax collectors is to show that anyone can be saved. Even if it means His name could be smeared by the religious pharisees or He could risk His reputation, He did it anyway. The message is sacred but the method is not. With that said, of course the method is not to be mixed up with forgoing one’s spiritual values and God’s commandments in order to impact the pop culture (Cultural mandate) which Sun has not, at all!

Not everyone would want to know more about christianity through a church for your info. Because of Jesus’ action/risk, what happened? Matthew the tax collector was saved, furthermore he forsake his post and went on to write the Book of Matthew which we all have read today.

The artistes that you mentioned: Colbie Caillat, Alicia Keyes, Kelly Clarkson and Leona Lewis are all vying for consumer’s demand in a different genre. So please do not be confused or be mix up in this as Sun is vying for a piece of the Dance genre market. Even in pop culture, there is different genres for your info. :)

I am not totally a Sun fan, but I must say I am touched by the MVs she did so far in Chinese such as ‘Embrace’ (where it talks about everyone needing hugs and encouragement in our harsh reality) and others. I believed that many unbelievers were touched by it as well. Still, dwelling on the English songs she has performed, has any of the songs talked about debauchery and overt sexual portrayal or even drugs and foul language? Certainly not! Not ‘Where Did Love Go’, not ‘One With You’, not ‘Without Love’, not ‘Gone’, not ‘Fancy Free’ and also certainly not ‘China Wine’!

About the muslim issue, you take any artistes’ video from the dance genre and it will be offensive to them because of their religion. That explains the recent incidents in our neighboring country. And please do not use the majority when you represent just yourself. Why is it that so many of our youths listen to 987fm which features all sorts of songs but they have no problem with that? (If you haven’t listen to 987fm lately, I suggest you do so.) So please get your facts right, thanks. :)

We are all given talents right? And God says we should utilize our talents for His Glory right? Sun’s talent is to dance, and not just to sing! (She’s dancing super duper well for a 37 year old!) So why can’t she do both? Why can’t she be in the dance genre? Perhaps Mr/Mrs H. Liao, God’s calling for you is to be in a less ‘provocative’ industry. But you can’t force Sun to shortchange God of the talents He have given her can you?

With that said, Sun has certainly sanitized herself from committing the many norms of those in the same industry and being relevant at the same time. So lets encourage her to keep on keeping on yea? :)

Afterall, it’s not very nice to say stuff like you want your kids to not look up to people like her when she is also a parent herself. Surely she also understand the concerns that you as a parent have? Lets be an encouragement to each other in this world where there is a whole lot more negativity than positivity. :)

God bless,
Reuel Eugene
Adriana on September 23rd, 2009 2:33 am

People who will look up to Sun as role model, first and foremost, will probably be CHC members.

So if Sun has been transmitting wrong values and wrong lifestyle, these CHC members are the most vulnerable ones.

I attend CHC every week and I didnt see anyone wear skimpy clothes to church, cellgroups or outings after China Wine video

Neither did I heard any of my church friends become party animals after the MV.

China Wine MV was about 1 year ago since release and the so called “bad” influences does not exist.

And I dont think guys will suddenly fall into habitual sexual sins just by watching 3 minutes video.

For non-CHC Christians, I think they have their own role models and will not be so affected by whatever Sun is doing.

For non Christians, they will find Sun and church to be more relate able, and that is good!
Soul-so-free on September 23rd, 2009 2:45 am

Just some personal thoughts … ;)

Doesn’t Sun deserve a chance in life to live out her dream? The talk about her being a stumbling block has been “blown” way out of proportion, I do feel so. Just as it is with movies like Da Vinci Code, if an MV can stumble a Christian, perhaps that Christian is a tad bit too weak in faith, to begin with? No offense, please :)

I feel we should remember that she is a normal human with dreams in her heart. Why do we box her up into our perspective of who she is, who she ought to be? Let’s for a moment, forget about her being a counselor for once, forget about her being a song leader for once. Can’t we just let Sun be … Sun?

It was just one China Wine MV, yet a select group of people would major on something so minor as one MV. And even then, the MV did not promote any sort of vice, i feel. It was purely of entertainment value. I mean, it’s pop culture we are talking about, and she’s NOW an artiste, a singer, an entertainer. You don’t expect her to preach? Let her be free to express her gifts and talents, can’t we?

Whilst Sun would have been excellent as a counselor & song leader in church, it seems that her crossover into the entertainment industry has enabled her to do much more for society’s good. I mean, seriously, how many of us would have been able to build schools, orphanages, etc. as a result of what we do? Shouldn’t we applaud her for that? That is such an awesome thing … But WHY HAVEN’T WE GIVEN HER CREDIT FOR ALL THAT?

Let’s stop slamming hard on each other. Every joint supplies.

Let SUN be SUN. Ultimately, you will know a tree by its fruits. Just observe her fruits … and stop judging before time … especially when we do not even know Sun’s motives and heart. I know that she has pure motives and heart.

BY THE BY:

I struggled with depression before. When Sun came up with her first Mandarin album “Sun with Love” … my friend gave me a copy of the album, and her songs brought healing to my soul. I no longer struggle with depression ever since. Here’s an honest sharing about how songs (non-churchy, non-religious, purely secular) can be used by God to heal a heart?

So should SUN see this … I just wanna say thank you for all that you are doing. You are the most courageous woman I’ve ever known in this lifetime. :) Live your dream, because you’ve only one life to live. Those who are for you are more than those who are against… :) You are my hero. So are you, Pastor Kong.
Tsukuyomi on September 23rd, 2009 2:49 am

What’s with this spin publication that utilizes written media in order to soothe ruffled feathers in the Christian community? Ho Yeow Sun’s a prominent pastor’s wife. Whatever she does reflects back on him and the community he leads, as well as impacts the community he hopes to reach out to.

So what’s the deal with all the sexually charged dances? She’s not just wearing gym clothes but revealing outfits, and gyrating around like some pussycat doll with all those hands all over her like some oversexed belly dancer.

The entire piece that Kong Hee wrote is worded to justify the actions and career choice his wife has made. It’s not balanced, there aren’t any cons, just so many pros that it makes the entire piece flawed. I don’t see how contributing to charitable causes from Sun’s royalties and spreading the Word of God go hand in hand with her characters’ portrayals in her music videos; many celebrities contribute to charity too, but aren’t Christian.

I’ve read through the comments and one topic has caught my eye – the issue of stumbling. Why do most Christians, especially the Christian youth of today, stumble or even fall away from the faith? Christanity has been left stagnant, that’s a definite given, and adequate attention hasn’t been given to the Christian youth in respect to progressive societal shifts in modern times, and I would say it’s most definitely true that given the moral pollution as portrayed in Sun’s China Wine video is one of the reasons why youth find Christianity irrelevant in these modern times. In a way to say it, the youth find that Christianity is “old-school”, and yearn for something more refreshing.

In a way Kong Hee is saying that we should look beyond the veil to see the larger beyond. However, he should take into consideration (even though this is an obvious media spin on his wife’s negative publicity due to the video) that not everyone’s as enlightened as he assumes.

In a world that’s polluted by lust for the material, what we youth need is a voice from the ordained of God to lead us, one that will speak to our spiritual being and not to the physical. But sad to say, due to the need to satify material lust, most youth have become shallow beings who can’t hardly see beyond the latest offerings of Louis Vuitton or Chanel, Lady Gaga or Fergie, etc, to look for deeper meanings.

Humans are mainly visual beings, in that we need to see to process our surroundings effectively, and videos such as Sun’s China Wine video only feeds our visual needs, and not much beyond that. I say that Christianity doesn’t need to emulate pop culture to be relevant to the people of today, but it needs to be set apart and defined as being better than any alternatives.

So what’s it to you, Kong Hee? What do you want the untouched masses to see Christianity as? No one’s as enlightened as you think they are. You may be able to put a spin on things, and in your defence you might say that there will always be a divide on all issues, no matter what it’s about.

But the bottom line is that you, as an ordained and prominent minister, and your entire family are representative of Christ and his teachings. You are also responsible to the collective image of all ordained ministers the world over, so think about what message your wife’s music video is actually spreading, versus what you want it to portray. They’re actually two vastly different things.

And to end, I believe that Matthew 21:31, “I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.” actually means is that in the sins that we commit intentionally or otherwise in a society with such lax morals and social crises, puts us in a worse placing for entry to heaven than tax collectors and prostitutes, who’re just doing a service in order to make a living for themselves and/or their families.

By the way, Pastor Kong Hee, I do believe that the piece you wrote was to defend your wife’s career and how it contributes towards opening up the untouched to Christianity, as well as to charitable causes. However, I’m rather confused to read, in your own words, that “The “China Wine” music video was never meant for a church event. Neither was it ever intended to be an evangelism tool or a gospel video. It is simply pop entertainment”. Whatever it is, I reiterate that whatever you or your family does is representative of Christians, because of your prominence, so take heed.
Goober on September 23rd, 2009 3:08 am

I watched the video clip in youtube….. is that an example of Christlike?
Ronnie on September 23rd, 2009 3:11 am

What is cat’s favorite food? Many would answer “fish”. Try placing before a kitty, a fish and a can of cat’s food; a deviation of knowledge. William Shakespears once said “there is nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so”. The perspective of life and doings are formulated throughout the years of life-long learning (up-bringing). The Pharisees disapproved Jesus was because he was perceived guilty associating with the prostitutes and tax collectors, and yet over looking the intention and purpose of Jesus’s doing. Is all these reactions relative to our understanding of a pop star or a pastor’s wife? Sun is a professional artist, and a fervent belivever of Jesus. Trust her spiritual maturity in deciding which is overly suggestive, what is permissible and what is beneficial. It is not our call to judge if her doings has stumbled anyone; it’s her accountablilty to God. If it is stumbling you, stop watching. If you cannot resist, gouge out your eye. Go cultivate one of the seven fruits – self control. There will come a day we all shall stand before God to present our platter. Till then, there is no need to utter a word of justification.

Dear Pastor Kong, you are the Man for Sun. I don’t like pop music, but I still love Sun! ^^
CJ on September 23rd, 2009 3:14 am

Dear Pastor,

Thanks for sharing all that with us. Just want to say I’ve been so inspired, moved and wowed by what you and Sun do and keep on doing.

You’ve paved the way and taken so many hits so that we can be unafraid to shine as who God made each of us to be.

Praying for you and Sun, and cheering you on all the way!

CJ
Melvin on September 23rd, 2009 3:28 am

Tsukoyomi,

I think to better understand what Pastor Kong means, you have to understand the Cultural Mandate he speaks about.

The world is not necessarily a divide between a saved and unsaved world, secular and christian world. Not everything in popular culture is bad or evil. Louis Vuitton and the latest fashion are not necessarily evil, they are expressions of creativity, beauty and talent given by God. Whether the designers are saved or unsaved, they are fulfilling God’s mandate of building culture.

Understanding this, will help you to understand that not everything in music and entertainment is evil. Not everything fashionable, cool and real to the world is evil. The ability to seperate fact and fiction is important. Her role in the music video doesn’t mean she is less of a christian, or mean that she is prosmicuious. She is still her, whatever she may act to be. Example: An actress acting as a prostitute as part of a movie that shows the reality of society, really isn’t a prostitute.

Most people are mature and intelligent enough to tell the difference. Strangely it is only from the super-religious, that they accuse her of being what her role in the music video is. Isn’t it strange? And they don’t even understand that the role isn’t even bad to begin with.

For this particular china wine video, those who are lustful in their hearts will still lust, whatever she wears. For the pure, it is cool clean fashion, they do not see anything dirty or have any crazy imaginations. It certainly isn’t any stumbling block. It is very far fetched to even consider anyone who has given up their faith, or is tempted to sin because of watching the music video.
Adriana on September 23rd, 2009 3:29 am

Dear Tsukuyomi,

Being irrelevant is bad. Being unloving is the worst.

You said:
“In a world that’s polluted by lust for the material, what we youth need is a voice from the ordained of God to lead us, one that will speak to our spiritual being and not to the physical. But sad to say, due to the need to satify material lust, most youth have become shallow beings who can’t hardly see beyond the latest offerings of Louis Vuitton or Chanel, Lady Gaga or Fergie, etc, to look for deeper meanings.”

In that one paragraph alone, there are massive judgment, condemnation and sarcasm towards the youths.

You despise the youth label as being shallow and vain.

I don’t know how can you lead the youth into the right direction, no one want to listen to someone who dont care and only judge.

Youth may come because of the pop culture, the cool songs, the great fashion.

But they will stay because of the love of the people who love with the love of God.

But being judgmental like this will surely drive the youth away.

You said that Pst Kong is a prominent minister, and you are right.

Because he carries the love of God.

Because he rescue a generation

I hope you also live a life that impact some people

Dont turn the good news into bad news
ARGH. on September 23rd, 2009 3:33 am

I find myself imagining living a day in Sun’s shoes … And then before I have fully imagined it, I hurry back to reality.

It must be hard living in her shoes … Would have been easier without super religious people around, I’m sure.

It must have been frustrating for Jesus living in His days with all the religious ones and the Pharisees jumping at Him at every opportunity, just to prove Him wrong.

By no way am I implying that Jesus and Sun are comparable. Not at all. But I feel slightly disgusted by all the holier-than-thous around who are acting even holier than Jesus Himself.

Why on earth do you have a problem with SUN when her husband and God do not have?

—> It seems to me that during Jesus’ lifetime, the group He had problem with (most) were the Pharisees and super religious group of people. For Someone so wonderful and meek like Jesus to call them “Whitewashed tombs” full of “dead men’s bones” … They must have really gotten on His nerves.

I think if Christians are more like Jesus—down to earth, very holy at heart yet very relevant and “relatable” … people would be more open to being one too. I don’t want to be one if it means I’m supposed to live like a Pharisee or any one of you super religious ones.

I’m sorry, but it’s true.
7Max7 on September 23rd, 2009 3:38 am

well, damned if she does, damned if she don’t. Personally, i am glad she did.

Frankly, if i were in her shoes, i may not have the guts to ‘cross over’.

The way i see it, every action we do, someone will have an opinion to it and not everyone will see things the same way. as for ‘many people’ being upset… i wonder… how many, really.

I guess Sun probably did considered that some will not like what she does, whatever it is that she may choose to do. i imagine… if she did NOT cross over, the same critics may be badgering her about something else that she may be doing.

And i should think, if there is even one soul that’s touched, 1 life made better through hearing her song… it’s been worth it.

For better music, for a better world. Go Sun go!
Daff on September 23rd, 2009 4:00 am

“Wholesome shallowness”, I’m sad but to admit this is what many tend to think of Christians. And even sadder to realize that the every cause… is how Christians are portraying themselves.

If Christians can preach so much about love and acceptance, why can’t they themselves have bigger hearts and wider perspectives?

Even if I don’t know Jesus, and don’t know religion, when I look at Sun, I can at least see and feel that she is sincere in all that she does, and would be touched and inspired by her.

YET when I look at Christians pouring criticisms on a pop star making it big in the entertainment world, I can’t help but to wonder why can people be so absorbed by religion that they can’t appreciate good music, good singing, good entertainment?

Please don’t make the world think that Christians live in a black and white world. If you really do live in one, I’m sorry but to say you’re missing out so much on what life is about.
Duck on September 23rd, 2009 4:24 am

I feel for Sun, especially after reading this entire heartfelt post by Pst Kong.

When we look at Sun, why can’t we look beyond the surface, beyond religion, and see her as a woman who loves and is talented in singing; one who has THE courage to pursue her dreams and what she believes in? I mean, which other Asian has broken-through into the US entertainment world and made it as far and as big as Sun did?

Why can’t we major on the fact that what Sun is doing has so much more depth to it, because out of it thousands of people and children are being touched by her efforts in humanitarian work!

I’m sure Sun knew and expected people to not like what she’s doing, to not understand why she does what she does. I’m sure Sun WENT AHEAD to pursue her dream despite all these because she doesn’t live to impress, but for something SOLID that she believes in.

It’s okay if you don’t approve, but I only hope we can all look at the bigger picture. Talk about impact and lives changes, what better way than going to a place(Entertainment world) where millions of lives are engaging every single day?

To think of it: Isn’t this more effective, way more effective than singing melodic hymns and quoting bible verses to people who already are saved? :)
Cheerios on September 23rd, 2009 4:57 am

Dear Tsukuyomi!

I’d like to give my two cents worth regarding your comments. ☺ I’m not here as a defender, but even as a person sitting on the fence, I felt moved enough to speak up about what I feel is a little OTT (over the top)!

Watching Sun’s videos (China wine I presume), I don’t find it particularly “sexually charged”, nor is she “gyrating like some pussycat doll” and looking like an “oversexed belly dancer”. That’s really putting it a lil too strongly aint it? Sun is well and fully clothed, and as for the erotic value of those “gyrating movements”, I’d say that’s up to the perception of the individual. Sucking on a lollipop is erotic to some, but to others, its just…..sucking on a lollipop. Yup? To the pure, all things are pure. Sun’s “gyrating movements” looked like regular dance moves, frankly speaking “oversexed”, “sexually overcharged” never entered my mind when I saw the vid. [On a separate note, belly dancing is oft perceived as an artistic (not erotic) dance ☺]

“The entire piece that Kong Hee wrote is worded to justify the actions and career choice his wife has made. It’s not balanced, there aren’t any cons, just so many pros that it makes the entire piece flawed.” – What is wrong with stating the pros? Does stating the pros make an argument flawed? Are the pros not facts? O.O

“Christanity has been left stagnant, that’s a definite given, and adequate attention hasn’t been given to the Christian youth in respect to progressive societal shifts in modern times – I’m just wondering how you get these “facts”? How do you know “definitely” know that Christianity has been left stagnant? That’s funny, because I remember seeing quite a few of my friends getting saved and touched by God recently. And yes, they are youths. I see many, many youth on fire and actively serving God. So, that’s good news! I’m happy to share with you that Christianity is not dead and dying, its very much alive and kicking ☺

“and I would say it’s most definitely true that given the moral pollution as portrayed in Sun’s China Wine video is one of the reasons why youth find Christianity irrelevant in these modern times. In a way to say it, the youth find that Christianity is “old-school”, and yearn for something more refreshing.” – Hang on a sec buddy, how is Sun’s China Wine one of the reasons why youth find Christianity irrelevant?? Its not like churches broadcast her videos live in services, I’m sure. And I’m seriously confused, is China wine now considered “old-school” ? =X

Also, I don’t think this blog post is an “obvious media spin” for “negative publicity” This is Kong’s personal blog ma.. What’s wrong with posting on your personal views on your own blog. Its not like this is the newspapers..

“Humans are mainly visual beings, in that we need to see to process our surroundings effectively, and videos such as Sun’s China Wine video only feeds our visual needs, and not much beyond that.” – Dear friend, the video is NOT supposed to be a picture of Christianity. I think you started out writing this comment with the mindset that Sun is trying to preach through this music vid…which she is not. She is performing! Um, to quote what you quoted, “The “China Wine” music video was never meant for a church event. Neither was it ever intended to be an evangelism tool or a gospel video. It is simply pop entertainment”.

Anways, to end off, I think we should pray for one another and uphold each other into God’s hands, yea? At the end, we will stand before God ourselves and give account. So, chill out a bit friend, the warnings sound pretty ominous!

☺ Cheerios
GTR on September 23rd, 2009 5:27 am

Well folks, evidently, the japanese word for ‘Pharisee’ is spelt T.S.U.K.U.Y.O.M.I .

:P
Johannes on September 23rd, 2009 6:58 am

well, yah…thanks for all the humanitarian work. it seems to ma that the reason Sun went ALL out in her MV to boost the sales of her album. And with the increased royalties, she built more schools in China. Thanks…thanks…
Margaret Vun on September 23rd, 2009 7:14 am

Just to share my heart as a grandmother, leader of a children church…

I believe Sun is born like Esther to this world for ’such a time like this’

I pray that there will be more people like Pastor Kong and Sun who have placed the ‘next generation’ in their hearts.

Where on this earth can you find people like them?

Pastor and Sun, keep up the good job the He has given to you.

God bless!
Shinso on September 23rd, 2009 7:30 am

Many people preach about reaching out to society.
But only a few actually do it.
TwittLink - Your headlines on Twitter on September 23rd, 2009 7:32 am

[...] Wholesome Shallowness? | Kong Hee [...]
backstageworker on September 23rd, 2009 8:51 am

Thanks for the post HO CK..
“She’s about to shoot her MTV when she realizes that it requires her to wear skimpy dressing and dance sexily (Daniel’s issue with food).
She tells the MTV director that because of her commitment to God, she could not do it (Daniel’s request to abstain).”

Remember Pastor Kong’s teaching about crystals in distill water by Mr. Emoto? Under microscope, ugly crystals will form whenever bad or evil things were spoken into it. This brought about a great revelation to me that whenever we spoke something of evil or something that will incite evil, bad crystals will be formed into a person. And this gives me a very strong reminder, to do my best NOT TO say or preach anything that agitates or awaken the evil sleeping dragon in a person and I knew it wasn’t an easy job.
When SUN was suddenly, unnaturally have intestine problem that needed Hospitalisation and operation, out hearts go out to her and we all prayed to her. To some this “Afflictions” is the work of devil trying to wreck her work but to me it is yet like yet another confirmation when Rev Alex Abraham shared with us that bad things happened, he had disputes with family member untill he repented and everything was restored to order. Because of God’s love for you, he will make things to happen to attract your attention so that you’ll turn around. Then I prayed and tried to communicate with our Lord Jesus. I request to know what happened “Was this affliction something related to what she do?” I wish I could look at the lyric, break them apart and examine them. Just as God can wrapped his word of Love around or in between lyrics and song. The same thing Satan can do, he can wrapped his blasphemies against God around or in between song lyrics too. So I prayed and in fact all of us prayed. I prayed in this way “Lord Jesus, heal Sun Ho, if there is anyway the songs that she is going to release has lyrics that is not right, Lord forgive her and heal her. Let her do the rectification later on. If it is time to bring her back to focus in Asia of which, Lord you had already showed many signs and miracles as indication. Let her come back and shine as a priceless gem in Asia. Heal her O’Lord, let your blood cover her, healed her and protect her. Amen”
It is very easy to ROB GOD of HIS glory by saying “Oh, all this while Sun Ho already have this intestine problem, the operation and medication had cured her.” What happened to the courage we had seen in the MTV? The refusal to do the unholy? Was the spiritual value eroded away for FAME? ALL THESE GOOD WORKS WILL COME TO NOTHING, IF GOD, LORD JESUS IS NOT THE FIRST LOVE AND DOING THIS THINGS HAVE BECOMES A SELF-JUSTIFICATION, i.e MIGRATE ONESELF INTO THE DARKER ALLEY OF FAME AND SELF-SATISFACTION, RATHER THAN OUT OF FEVERENTLY LOVING THE PEOPLE.

We are privilege to see the Video and quite audible as said “I just want to have fun, why do you wear so much?”
This sounds like the secular suggestive words of THE IT? There are 12 songs in this Album, I think. We do not know the Lyrics. Remember what I said earlier and Pastor Kong’s teaching about Crytals in distilled water. Just as God can wrapped his word of Love around or in between lyrics and song. The same thing Satan can do, he can wrapped his blasphemies against God around or in between song lyrics too.
Remember this. GOD IS NOT TO BE MOCKED!
Galatian 6:7 “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”
backstageworker on September 23rd, 2009 8:59 am

By the way:

We are privilege to see the Video and quite audible as said “I just want to have fun, why do you wear so much?”

How about this? “We can have more fun, why not wear more colours? Sounds fun, we talk about creativity, colours, at least it is NOT suggestive :)
zerostupid on September 23rd, 2009 9:54 am

I think we’ve to remember that Sun is on our side, and its worth thinking about what she has achieved, for an Asian, from Singapore… in the USA. Its by no means an easy feat. Personally, China Wine and Fancy Free are not my favourite MVs or songs I put into my iPod to listen to as they don’t appeal to me as much as other artistes which I follow. Having said that, I do not feel I need to condemn them (eventhough I am a Christian), as what does not appeal to me will appeal to others. And I can accept that. To those that Sun have won over, they will eventually look beyond just her songs and her videos and realise what a wonderful person she is and what she is living for. I believe that is her own way of reaching the lost.

I don’t believe we should be debating about this among ourselves but really respect our differences. I feel for her for the criticism she has received… for she is only human. I do wish (since we are on the same side) that we would give her more support and encouragement.

On the other hand, those who support Sun also have to accept that there are so-called “conservatives” and rather than debate with them, help them to understand (like what Ps Kong has done in this blog). If they are still unreceptive, there is no point debating further except to trust that they will eventually understand. I am not from CHC by the way, so I have first-hand experience of how CHC friends of mine try to “force” others to share their views. I am not spared, as they too try to make me a fan of Sun’s music, which I had earlier stated does not appeal to me. It is also splashed on Facebook, Twitter etc by CHC members, “advertising” her new single and asking us to vote and all. Imagine everyone putting the exact same message. So I guess people out there cannot help but feel this is manufactured support from the church.

I believe CHC should support Sun (but of course right), but don’t over-do it in public forums and settings. Be engaging and yet understanding of the public at large. Not liking her music or genre does not mean I do not support her. In fact, I do wish she succeeds in fulfilling her calling in life and also her own personal dreams and desires. Sorry for the long post.
Mrlvin Teng on September 23rd, 2009 9:57 am

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

Looking at this verse, can we say that Sun has stumbled “weak” Christians and thus sinned against Christ?

For my opinion, NO. Sun is doing what Christ has did in the pass. She is just doing what her job as a entertainer, singer.

For what Paul said in the verse above is to the church goer, new believer or could it be leaders but i think mainly is baby christians. However those who face difficuties to overcome this is mostly the leaders of the churches. This is not the weak christians and they shouldn’t be weak anyway.. if they are to be leaders. If they still want to continue to weak and refuses to have a newed mind and heart then for me they are committed sins too,..

Matt 9:10-12 ;
Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice. For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.

Remember Jesus come is not for the healthy one but for the sick,.. who will need a doctor then? Is the sick peoples… if you do a survey,.. mostly who have problem and making this crude remarks is not the newly converted but the christians who is a believer for a long time. Becareful to become just as the pharisees.

Matt 7:16-20 ;-
You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Do not criticise or judge not if you not able to do what he/she can do.

God bless…
LYL on September 23rd, 2009 10:13 am

Dear H. Liao,
As a mother, I have absolutely no problem with my daughter listening to Sun’s music or viewing her music videos like that of Chinawine. “To the pure, all things are pure” (Titus 1:5). I have watched Chinawine MV several times and in no way do I find her dressing or dance moves promoting overt sexuality. Neither do I have any difficulty explaining to my daughter that what is being portrayed is for sheer entertainment.

In fact, I feel that Sun is a great role model to my daughter and a wonderful example to our youths today. Why a role model, an inspiration? Because she is courageous enough to be an “Esther of her generation” and be the salt and light in the entertainment sphere (which has too long been dominated by moral erosion). Contrary to what you have highlighted, Sun is true to herself by boldly realising her dreams and maximising the singing gift that God has given to her, while at the same time, not compromise in her faith. Sun is real enough to understand that we are relating to a real world with real problems, and any alienation from the real needs of the people is definitely not going to bring them to the saving knowledge and love of God.

Sun’s worth and thereby spirituality, should not be measured by what she wears or the role she portrays in a music video or a movie. Fact must be separated from fiction. One’s faith will only be truly tested outside the four walls of the church, in the world out there where there are competing values with what the Word of God says. Keeping my children ignorant and insulating them from pop culture, will just mean that they would grow up failing to understand what the real world is like and how to live in it. As such, how can they ever effectively navigate in our post-modern world, be a person with moral integrity and influence, and a conversionist of their times? I want to educate my children to be as creative and colourful as possible, to live a dynamic, sophisticated and anointed life in obedience to Christ and the cause of His Kingdom.

I totally disagree with you that Jesus’ own words have been twisted and taken out of context to defend what Sun’s actions. Like what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:20, “To the Jews I become as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law.” Sun is just being relevant in her attempt to reach the masses as a professional entertainer. Her singing career clearly does not promote nor purport free sex, sexual immorality, scanty dressing and drugs. No compromise in her Christian values, whatsoever. Let us not self impose our man-made laws unto others when it comes to matters that are non-absolutes, but instead allow freedom of personal preferences and tastes, giving space to the Holy Spirit to lead every Christian individually.

Blessings.
weena on September 23rd, 2009 10:20 am

to zerostupid, thumbs up! I personally got a bit disturbed by the overwhelming support towards her by my friends from CHC whom normally do not really fancy western pop.
backstageworker on September 23rd, 2009 10:34 am

There are many comments here
==>■Mrlvin Teng
“Do not criticise or judge not if you not able to do what he/she can do.”
This is a very immature statement. Does it mean that people putting comment are judging? And you are implying that “Only people who can do what he/she can do can criticise?”

I am not pro whoever. I enjoyed Sun’s music. Just that She has to be careful. Remember her reason for being in the Cultural Mandate is for the FIrst Love, Lord Jesus. Not to be “Of the World, doer of the world.” but “to be the Salt and Light for the World.”

The dancing move and being in fashion is what she is and we love what she is, a embassodor for the body of Christ, CHC. But DON’T turn the original intention of bring the world into the Temple of God into the Merchant House where people TRADE GOD’s LOVE for FAME, POWER.”
Matt 21:12-13 “Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. And he said to them “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer, ‘ but you have made it a den of thieves.”
As an individual, sometimes if not careful. We tends to fall into temptation and we yeild to the desires of the flesh which is always a weakling and is manupulated by the evil one. Very easily without knowing “We had trade God’s love for our flesh’s desire and satisfaction.
Pop Culture is Great! I love Vanness Wu’s testimony, he said “The WORLD had make ME, but now that I have Lord Jesus in Me, I found myself again.” So bottomline, DO NOT yield to the World but be the conqueror of the world. Remember Satan is very crafty, he will do anything to make you disobey, or even mocks God unknowingly. You may said “It is just the song, the lyrics.” Be careful, some of this words in the lyrics may build up to the completion of doing the Satan’s work less it is already been examined and wrapped with God’s love, then it is Okay.
frank on September 23rd, 2009 10:42 am

is a MTV we are talking about… not a porn movie… if you have a dirty mind, whatever you watch will be dirty… you are “offended” by the MTV because your mind fantasised the wrong things and you decided to put the blame on the MTV… if your mind is healthy… is just an entertainment…

as for those people who condemned a successful and fruitful pastor and his wife… simple… because they are not fruitful… those who knew they are not fruitful will find opportunity to condemn those who are… religious people: “oh… we are not fruitful because we didn’t embrace your sinful ways to be fruitful”… is a human nature… jelousy? envy? self-righteous? the list goes on… i doubt they even pray…

no need to argue or explain to religious people… Jesus rebuked them during His time… as for me… where got time? got better things to achieve for the Lord…
Tasha on September 23rd, 2009 10:54 am

To all the people condeming Sun,

Maybe we should all focus on bring more people to Christ instead of spending so much time worrying about what Sun is wearing or doing, because she is answerable to God for what she does in her life, just like u will be for condeming her.

At the end of the day, the important point should be, How many people has Sun brought to Christ, and how many have you?

How many lives has Sun made a difference in? What about u?
Wayne on September 23rd, 2009 10:55 am

Well I think that to many of the people, they need to take a chill pill. In the 70’s Elvis was looked at by the church as a bad boy. Immoral person. And many people still think that of him. The sad part is that in an interview with the wife of Elvis, she said that “ Elvis always felt empty on the inside because he always wanted to instead of sing but preach on the stage. He always felt a calling to be an evangelist.” The saddest part is that no one from the church ever reached out to him and helped him find his purpose in life. Think about an Elvis that is drug free, singing and loving God? How about that?

Also I have a question, if a Victoria’s Secrets model becomes a Christian can she still take lingerie pictures? Will that stumble many people? Because young men might have fantasies about her?

Now when people attach sun I think that it is sad because many of them have never even spoke to her. Sun is one of the God fearing and God loving person I know.

For the people who thinking that her video will damage their kids….If your kids starts to have wild sex parties because of this, than we can talk. But than maybe your kids are the ones that thinks Santa is real, and there is the boogie man in the closet. Can’t eat fish because you might get Nemo. Don’t drive a VW because it might be Bumble bee. You get my point. All I can say is relax.

Maybe it is not a religious matter. Maybe it is your religious mind set.
Jasmine on September 23rd, 2009 11:08 am

Hi Pastor,

I am very of Sun and of what she is doing. Though I do not understand her chinese songs as I am indianm, I really enjoy listening to her english songs especially china wine is simply awesome!! I just loved it. Fancy free is just amazing and I kept listening to it over and over again. Sun’s songs are not just catchy but also very positive as well, which is why i love it! I hope Sun will continue to give us more great songs in the future. We love you Sun and miss you already.
Chuilaam on September 23rd, 2009 11:13 am

Pastor you rock!
TKH on September 23rd, 2009 11:20 am

To Terence:

I’m glad that there is no link to any of your blogs this time round, and I can see your attempt to air your “concerns”.

You said “Unlike what many of her supporters will say, I think whatever redemptive message China Wine purports to have is lost on its viewers, unless one purposes to pay close attention to it. My opinion is that most viewers just don’t pay so much attention to the “deep” meaning behind China Wine. The scant attention viewers pay to a 3 minute music video means that much of the intended message is lost, resulting in a very shallow and surface interpretation of the video…”

I think you missed the point again, because the whole China wine MTV did not start with a redemptive message in mind. (One must bear in mind that majority of the production crew are non-Christian, and they did their MV from their professional point of view – that is producing a good quality MV.) It simply portrays the reality of life, a fallen human world with many broken relationships. I didn’t watch China wine to get a deep meaning of life. Like many scant attention viewers, I watched it being “wow” by the production, the sound and music, and the creativity presented by Sun.

You said “As a result, they slam China Wine for promoting the clubbing lifestyle and liberal sexual values, and I don’t think they can be blamed. In Singapore especially, parents and religious leaders are very concerned by the influx of Western values brought in by the media, and when they see Sun “cross over” to the other side, they feel betrayed.”

Again, Terence, I think you are quite mis-leading as you said “they slam China wine”… as if all the viewers of China wine criticized the whole production as promoting liberal sexual values or clubbing lifestyle. If you bother to take a look at the comments in YouTube, you will find much more positive remarks than the negative feedbacks that you suggested. You are also presumptuous to say that “people feel betrayed” … is it more of your personal feelings than the opinion of the general public? I have serious doubt that many religious leaders or parents felt “betrayed” by Sun’s cross over. From your statement, it seems like the influx of Western values is bad or negative? (Did I hear you wrongly?) If that is your implication, then I must say you are naïve in your conclusion.

You said “We should try to understand why people are upset over the video and address their concerns. Let’s not be quick to slam them as being “legalistic” so soon.”

I would think that if someone understood what Ps Kong explained here, and still remain upset or offended, they probably put the label “legalistic” on themselves. I don’t think we are labelling anyone here.

You said “What do you guys make of What do you make of 1 Cor 8:9-13:Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak …” Looking at this verse, can we say that Sun has stumbled “weak” Christians and thus sinned against Christ?

Since you ask a theological question, I will try to attempt it from a biblical point of view. The word “stumbling block” in Greek is “pros’-kom-mah” which means an occasion of offense or apostasy (departing from the faith). It would be helpful to note that the same word “stumbling block” is used in reference to Christ in Rom 9:32-33, as well as 1 Pet 2:8. In these contexts, Christ becomes a stumbling block for those who refused Him, particularly the religious & legalistic people of Jesus’ time. So did Christ sin against Himself? I’m sure you have enough senses to come to the right conclusion.

The same word is also used in Rom 14:20 “All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.” For the sake of other readers, I will try to make this plain. A stumbling block is something that will cause another Christian to turn away from his faith in God. However, whether something/someone is a stumbling block or not, really depends on the perception and the attitude of the individual. I believe that we should do our utmost not to stumble anyone in our words or actions, but I am even more convicted than we should first obey God rather than men. The fact is that there will always be people who will be offended, no matter what we do. That does not mean we should stop doing it in order to please them. For the case of Sun, I think more are inspired rather than stumbled. Even for those who felt offended, from the fact they can still comment in this blog, I think they are not really stumbled – i.e. they have not left their faith.

Hope that clarifies!

TKH
queensterchua on September 23rd, 2009 11:28 am

I absolutely agree with Wayne’s comments.

I think that we need more SUNs. In fact, more SUNs who dare to swim against the tide and be out there … someone “relatable” and someone “real”, someone without pretense who dares to befriend the people in the culture of the world (which is labelled often too fast, as “too secular,” “too worldly”).

Why have we become so exclusive in the Church, so much so we become irrelevant and out of touch with the real world? We’ve become so “isolated”.

I am thinking, if there are more of such Elvis Presleys in the world who are “labelled” before they even have an opportunity to express their yearning for a real God …

Who’s gonna be out there to show them the way and lead them to this real GOD?

Certainly not a Pharisee-like person … I think someone like SUN would stand a higher chance?

Just my opinion.

But seriously, maybe we all gotta have some sort of a paradigm shift, huh?
TKH on September 23rd, 2009 11:51 am

To Mark:

Each of us has a different yardstick in our measurement or judgment. What you cannot accept does not mean that others can’t as well. And certainly what you can’t accept does not equal to sin or wrongdoings. I personally do not think that Sun is behaving in a sexually provocative way. It is just like if you are a model and you are required to wear a bikini for the photo shoot, you should be able to do it in a professional way in the industry of modelling and advertisement. Same is true for Sun. To me, this is professionalism to her industry as a singer and entertainer.

If every believers hold on to your set of thinking, who then will be the light of Christ in these challenging industries? No wonder we Christian often are guilty of condemning these “worldly”, “sensual” people, yet nobody dare to enter into their “dark world” to share the love of Christ, through building meaningful friendship with these people.

You said “Because she is in pop then music it is ok for her to blend in with what is expected of usual pop stars. I disagree. Suns latest video would been just as contemporary and just as relaemt without scenes with her wearing highly suggestive outfits and questionable dance moves.”

Mark, you talked as if you are an expert in the music industry? Can you suggest any Christian artists currently in Hollywood that practise what you are suggesting? I also think that you made wrong conclusion to think that the Sun you see on the MV is the same Sun in her private interaction with others.

I am also saddened by your thinking …

TKH
Antz on September 23rd, 2009 11:58 am

We can say this and that and all we want but I believe God knows who is doing His will.God is a God of impossibilities and work in mysterious ways,why will we restrict or narrowed the various channels God can use an individual?
I support & encourage SUN for the hardwork she puts in.SUN do make a DIFFERNCE!
ABCgal on September 23rd, 2009 11:59 am

Hi Pastor,

Thank you for stepping up and bringing this matter up! Your bravery in tackling ‘hot topics’ astounds me at times! Haha! But in truth, I am proud to be a member of CHC, proud to have you as my Pastor, and proud of Sun for all her great works out there!
Perman Marsino on September 23rd, 2009 12:00 pm

Let us not deviate from the issue, Ptr Khong I can sense how you wish China Wine portrays what you want it to be but the actual video is just simply different. Given your way of justification Sun may elevate her acts later to something else. I won’t be surprised to see her appearing in porno films. I mean we CHristians should know when to stop. The video is disturbing in any angle you view it. Celine Dion, Karen Carpenters, and others made it big the wholesome way. WHy can’t SUn? She has what it takes. She doesn’t have to be doing that to get attention. This will backfire to you pastor, believe me.
TKH on September 23rd, 2009 12:09 pm

To Ho C K:

I really had a good laugh at your sanctified imagination. It is a good attempt … but based on flawed assumptions. Whether be it Babylonian or Egyptian empire, we are already in these empires. Hello? Have you just woken up to know that you are still living in world, whose god is not our Christ? Are we not bombarded everyday as pilgrims in our journey of faith, as we navigate the treacherous waters of this dark world, whose god has blinded the eyes of the people in this present world? (2Cor 4:4, Heb 11:13)

We are current enslaved by all these world cultures, and most Christians just lived silently within their culture. We need a Daniel, or a Joseph, or a Sun, who can embraced the amoral of these cultures, and in the process, infused heaven’s culture to change those parts which are evil or wrong in the sight of God. Instead of being overly concerned about the external clothing, why not be more bothered about restoring healthy marriages, meaningful friendships, and positive values like giving … etc. back to Hollywood? Most of us probably can’t see on the surface the many lives that Sun has touched personally in her interaction with them, but one day, her fruits will tell. I suggest in the meanwhile, refrain from casting any stones as you might not know it will be hurled back against you one day. It is always a wise thing not to judge too quickly, else we might find ourselves one day humbled by the Judge of all.

God bless!

TKH
danieljx on September 23rd, 2009 12:20 pm

Dear Pastor,

Thank you for sharing on your blog on what Sun has done through her singing career. Her latest single is colourful, fun and well-depicting of the lyrics of the song – Fancy & Free!

It’s amazing to think that one from Singaporean (one of our own!)has been given an opportunity in Hollywood (and have a REAL MTV MV! I mean – Joseph Kahn!) to showcase her talent on the global stage. I’m so proud of Sun for her hard work in achieving her dreams and having courage to take on the world – literally!

Yet, at the same time, I am equally proud of Sun in her constant humanitarian efforts to make the world a better place. To sum it all up,
- built 8 schools
- built 2 orphanages
- built 2 medical centers
- built 1 rehabilitation clinic
- built 2 housing projects.

Raised funds for:
- 4 other orphanages
- 2 hospitals
- 2 community services
- 1 charity foundation

More than the institutions and buildings that have been built (which is numerous in a short period of time), one can only imagine the countless lives that have been helped and changed! Indeed, Sun is making a difference in our world, no matter what the detractors have to say!

Pastor, through the blog, I can see that you really love and believe in SUN. No good man will not stand up for his wife! Cause she’s all worth it! :)

To the detractors & nay-sayers – RELAX! Sun is walking a path where many have shunned! In fact, it’s takes more faith to tread this route and stay grounded and connected to one’s faith in the ‘eye of the Pop Culture storm’. Didn’t Jesus say He will send us ’sheep among wolves’ and we should be shrewd (perspicacious, understanding and insightful) but peace loving as the doves? SUN’s MV is a insightful and perceptive interpretation of the culture in the MTV world today! Let’s celebrate that she was ’spot-on’ in presenting her craft in what is understood and relevant to the world today – not some 70s, 80s, or even 90s stuff – it’s 2009! Edgy? Yes! Thought provoking? Yes! As it’s meant to be!

Most of all, please treat and respect SUN as a fellow human being – one using her craft with a heart of gold – who believes in making this world a better place for her other fellow human beings!

danieljx
blog reader on September 23rd, 2009 12:21 pm

Art portrays the truth of our realities. People connect to truth. Before we judge the reporter, we need to fix what is being reported on. I can see how people can be offended by it. But if this leads to actions to change the environment or opens up dialogue, it is all good. A lot of entertainers are givers and give back to charities. They should be respected for that. Thanks.
Oon Yongfu on September 23rd, 2009 12:29 pm

I admit, i had such questions in mind initially. I am personally ok with the idea of Sun going mainstream, but would it stumble someone? Does it matter if she did?

I realized now that the verse that Terrence quoted in the beginning part of this comments page was taken out of context. Paul was addressing the issue of how to interact with people – hence the examples used – meat sacrificed to idols, etc, which involved very personal contact and interaction.

Heck, apart from that, i see no reason NOt to draw comparisons between Paul and Sun. Paul himself was controversial – he behaved as a Jew among Jews, a sanctified heathen among heathens, speaking their language (to the Athenians), visiting their shrines (among the Athenians), insisting on the needlessness of circumcision (which was ratified later), ate with Gentiles WILLINGLY and unhesitatingly, eating meat without legalistically questioning its source, UNLESS told that it was offered to idols by the person offering it – and because he felt that a person telling him such a thing would have concerns which affected their consciences.

if Sun were to behave and dress like she did in China Wine while in church, of course, that would be a problem (Many, like me, will get VERY unnecessarily distracted! She’s really pretty!)

But she does not. She behaves and dresses within and up to the comfort levels of her immediate audience – AND within her conscience, which God refines. Who are we to judge the servant of another – and worse, to do it so unreasonably?
Omega Boy on September 23rd, 2009 12:29 pm

To Preman Marsino

Please…Please…Please – If u walk by a swimming pool, do u think that u are at a strip club?

I beg to differ and I think you will need to pull back on your imagination! It is like what they say, ““To the pure, all things are pure” (Titus 1:5).

If u watch China wine, and think that u are watching to a porno film – Maybe u should cut down on your extra-curricular activities!

There are lots of ways of singing a song, so I don’t see a need to just subscribe to YOUR way of doing things!

You might be a bit conservative from where u come from, but I think the rest of the world is definitely more liberal!
royjunior on September 23rd, 2009 12:41 pm

In regards to 1 Cor 8:9-13,

people forget that although it mentions of a “stumbling block”, it also talks about the immature christian and spiritually weak. Those who are stumbled by a man eating “meat sacrificed to other idols”, although God does not deem it a sin, ARE IMMATURE AND SPIRITUALLY WEAK.

So the conclusion, short and simple is this:

backstage worker: the bible says “GREATER IS HE WHO IS IN US THAN HE WHO IS IN THIS WORLD.” how can we ignore this part of scripture? Or are we going to just say he is greater without actually going into the world? As a Christian, Sun knows that light can be deceived by darkness, that salt can lose it’s saltiness, but she BELIEVES and prayerfully relies on God in her walk as a secular singer and performer. In other words, she believes that GREATER IS HE WHO IS IN HER, than the forces of this world.

Perman Marsino and the gang can just stay in there immature world. She is not dancing for the sake of dancing. She is not wearing striking, colorful clothing for the sake of it. She is doing so because she wants to express herself and be creative to the liberty God has given to us. SUN IS SUN, she is not celine dion, nor is she karen carpenters. She would not be where she is today if she were not herself, if she did not express her creativity to its entirety, if she did not embody a personal style that is distinct from other singers. She was herself, she still is herself, and she will continue to be herself. As an OUTSIDER (I’m not a City Harvest member, I live in the United States!) I feel so proud that a husband is willing to defend his wife publicly like this. I feel so proud that a woman is willing to go all out in musical and artistic expression without losing her own holiness. I live in Los Angeles, and Sun’s songs and videos are equal, or even BETTER than those released by American musicians and artists today in what has been dubbed as “the entertainment capital of the world”. I follow pop culture, as I am a student of philosophy, a lover of wisdom, and a follower of christ, who reads the bible and prays every day. When I see the big picture, as when I see the small picture, I am touched by the extent to which Sun is willing to follow God’s will in her life, and truly PENETRATING into a truly dark world. Her music is not sterilized, it truly reflects pop culture today, and is thus all for the better.

And so it comes down to a great quote a great man once said.

“In what is absolute, we must be absolute. But in what God has clearly stated is relative, let us WALK IN THE FULL FREEDOM THAT CHRIST HAS GIVEN TO US.”

don’t condemn her for this any longer. Being a Christian means that we are inherently LIBERATED, not clasped in the chains of legalism.

Our holiness is not judged by what we wear, or how holy we seem to the outside world like the Pharisees were. Our holiness is measured not by the extent we withdraw from the world, but the extent to which we follow God’s will in our lives. Sun is doing just this, living the Cultural Mandate message that God has given to Pastor Kong. She is the pure form of leading by example, and I applaud her for it.
JS on September 23rd, 2009 12:43 pm

Dear Terence,

You say that I have judged you…

Here is an excerpt of your own posting…

“Nonetheless, Sun’s attempts to cross over should be applauded. It is not easy to traverse between East and West, and to be accepted by two opposing cultures. Singaporeans and Christians alike should support Sun and hope that she succeed.”

Positive, supportive of Sun? Sounds like but not so…look at your following paragraph…

“I would also like to raise a scriptural point, which I have no answers to. What do you guys make of What do you make of 1 Cor 8:9-13:

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

Looking at this verse, can we say that Sun has stumbled “weak” Christians and thus sinned against Christ?”

Positive, supportive of Sun? By raising doubts about what she is doing? I don’t think so…

Yes, you started out “praising her” but let your praise be without restraint. Partial or limited praise is no praise at all.

You claim that you are just raising points for discussion…

To raise points for discussion needs that point or points to be put across objectively and not subjectively.

To phrase a “discussion point” thus (can we say that Sun has stumbled “weak” Christians and thus sinned against Christ?”) is akin to asking a loaded question. How do we expected to answer a loaded question except in a way that suits you?

As a debater in my earlier years, I have found that the inconsistencies in taking a stand, be it beneficial to me or not, does not help me win any battles in life (not just debates).

That is why the Eph 6:13 says, “…having done all, to stand”,
not “having done all, to waver between two sides and see how the discussion holds out…”

Trying to side-step questions from me and Edmund to your posting is like trying to throw smoke at a situation. Why not rebut point by point instead?

In your own words, “surely, you can do better than that?”

JS

P/S: Edmund, whoever you are, you have my “vote”! =)
frank on September 23rd, 2009 12:49 pm

Preman Marsino,

What is the issue? Pastor Kong has addressed the issue in this blog…

The issue is… If you are dirty-minded, everything you see are dirty cause you start to think dirty… Please don’t even try pornography… You will go crazy… and maybe blame China Wine MTV for that…

To tell what Sun should do or not to do without knowing her shows that you are another SELF-RIGHTEOUS “christian”…
Kafer on September 23rd, 2009 12:54 pm

Hi Ps Kong,

The first time i saw “China wine” I was quite taken back by the sensual move, dressing and langauge at the end.

kinda of hard to swallow for a conservative me, however the song start to grow on me and its on repeat in my Itune.

I also began to overlook the outward apperance and seek to understand the purpose of this video and the work of Sun. I dont think the MTV will be a hit if Sun is dressed in full length cheong sum and just do some sway, The appeal to the crowd is provocative and appealling.

After reading your blog on the works of SUN, i am really touched and blessed. Why do we look at the minor and forget the major? Through her singing, she is able to help so many people and I dont think these people who were helped care are perplexed by what she wore and how she danced!

Love is action and whats the use of saying to a poor i will pray for you and ignore his needs. I didnt say it. James (the author of James) said it.

To all conservative: Lets look beyond and see the good work done and Sun has not sinned… Put down the stones
Marc on September 23rd, 2009 1:02 pm

Wow, this is a very good post!

Just shuts all the naysayers up!
Dawn on September 23rd, 2009 1:07 pm

No matter what people say, Christians or not, as a music lover, I love what Sun is doing! I am not bias; but simply honest! I don’t see her through tinted-glasses; of how a preacher’s wife should behave. I see her as an artist and an entertainer. She is awesome! I mean, pleeeaasseeee…this is Hollywood!

I love her songs. I love her MV, especially her latest MV “Fancy Free”. In fact, I am looking forward to her album release… Heard the snippets, love them like crazy!

In fact, I can imagine her making public performances in those hot and catchy tunes! Look at 2009 MTV VMA, I hope Sun gets to perform in one of those, one of these days… Well, it cost nothing to dream..:)
JP on September 23rd, 2009 1:20 pm

Hi Pastor,

I agree with what your message is about and with what Sun has been doing.

We cannot win the lost from within our own four walls of our ‘comfort zone’

Yes, the 1st Space is indeed a launching pad to train and release others who have been called.

No one has ever won a battle being an arm chair ‘general’ and in terms of battle tactics, you can never win a war just with planes, special forces and aircraft carriers and artillery alone.. you need the ‘infantry’ to go in, take the ground and hold it.

What many traditional 1st space leaders don’t realise is that when you go out to ‘battle evil’ you cannot do so and expect to still remain immaculately white and pristinely clean.

In order to ‘excise’ darkness that spreads like cancer, you must be willing to step INTO that darkness, engage it at its source & terminate its root. That means entering the enemy’s gates, binding their strongmen, tearing down their strongholds before we can plunder them.

Yes, many will say the battle is the Lords’ or here i am send him, and God may have had to raise up a plan ‘B’ to fulfil what He had in mind.

Many of those called to the forefront face the hardest battles, the fiercest criticisms.. these are the ones who labour boldly, following God’s call on their lives above the opinions and thoughts, of the common man, ordained or ministerial..

There have always and will always be a need for people willing to respond a resounding Yes to God’s call on their lives. Maybe even one day, we ourselves will be numbered amongst those who would be looking on with ‘green slitted eyes’ because we do not understand the purpose of why those people are doing what they are doing.

I say, judge them not for if they do the work of God, let them be accountable to Him and Him alone. for to Him they do their work, for His Kingdom, to build His house they belabour.

For with the measure you judge, it will be used against you.

The broken have a song, to find someplace to belong.
The weak have a song, to find someplace to grow strong.

A place that is accepting and provides a balanced diet of spirituality, doctrine, teaching, discipleship, empowerment.

Why must these be done? To further win the lost.

We who were once broken, derided strange and weird, cast out from the common crowd.
Have found in His house a place to belong.
That we would set our hearts on serving where we are, is never wrong.
That we would give our hearts to the Him who loves and accepts us as who we were, is a natural response to that love He gave.

Think on this, how many in this fast paced, high tension and stressed out world still do not know peace or have a fully valid purpose for their mundane life?

I don’t know about anyone else.. but I want to make a difference in their lives, even if its one little starfish at a time..
Starfish on September 23rd, 2009 1:48 pm

i used to be uncomfortable with the way Sun portrays herself but now i understand.. its not easy to be enlightened but to those like me who are, continue to thank the Lord for what Sun has done… and to those who are still not, i know your position cos I had looked at it from that perspective for years.. its not easy to be entirely objective but you must if you want to be enlightened as its only the truth that can set one free.. Pray to the Lord to help you understand.. We believe in the same God so His answers to you, to us, to Sun, to Ps Kong will be the same…
Terence Lee on September 23rd, 2009 2:06 pm

JS,

I am not very convinced by you.

You doubt my support for Sun because I raised doubts about her. You said that praise should be full praise and partial praise. That is a very naive view.

I support her, despite some of my reservations about her actions. Likewise, just because I am pro-Singapore does not mean I support everything the Singapore government does? To agree 100% with something or someone is just impossible, which I’m sure you’ll agree.

You claim I am trying to ask a loaded question. I don’t deny that. I’m not a debater, like you boast to be. Sometimes I do slip into asking loaded questions. But mind you, this is a conversation, not a survey question for a research paper. This is not a formal debate at a competition. Let me tell you I am genuinely asking a question about 1 Cor, not trying to insinuate anything.

At least Edmund understands what I am trying to get at, and he bothers to explain his POV to me. I appreciate his understanding and insight. I’d cast him a vote too.

But JS, you’d lose my vote.
Terence Lee on September 23rd, 2009 2:11 pm

TKH,

I appreciate your theological explanation. That is exactly what I’m looking for. Much appreciated =)
Terence Lee on September 23rd, 2009 2:17 pm

TKH,

personally, I don’t really care much about the sexually suggestive dance moves in China Wine. Frankly speaking, I’ve seen worse. To me it is nothing, and I quite enjoy the music actually.

When I said all those things. I’m trying to put myself in the shoes of Christians who are more conservation and traditional. Personally I am NOT offended by the video — I don’t care really. But there are people to take offense at it, especially Singaporeans, and I’ve spoken to them. What I’m saying is that I’m not surprised why they are offended, because they tend to take the video at face value without looking at the deeper meaning.

I am not saying that ALL viewers find Sun offensive. Once again, I am referring to certain group of Christians who are offended.

When referring to Western values, I don’t refer to ALL Western values my friend, but liberal sexual values.

Hope this clarifies.
Jingle on September 23rd, 2009 2:29 pm

I will be worried or maybe even feel stumbled, if Sun is in the new headlines “celeb in rehab” or “messed up Asian pop star…”
Just a thought, even famous stars like Lindsey Lohan, Britney Spears, Lady Gaga, MJ, who messed up in one way or another or may not uphold a good moral lifestyle (which some are professed lesbians/gays) are supported by people all over the world. Would you allow your children to support them? How about the MV by MJ -Beat it? is it promoting violence?? Or Poker face by Gaga? Do you know the real meaning behind the song? But all our kids seem to know the tune…
If Beyonce is the one dancing in Chinawine or did what Sun did in the video, will anyone question her moral standard? She is also a Christian who believes in God stemming out from the group Destiny’s Child.
So Is it cultural preference…? Maybe Asians namely own Singaporean cannot accept the fact that another of the same kind is doing something so different and out there… just because no Asians has done it does not mean that it is a wrong thing to attempt this kind of musical expression…? Can we only handle the good and wholesome side and ignore the broken side of life…? People in real life goes through real problems… heartaches, sickness, depression, money issues, divorce, sexual addictions, suicide…
Are Christians really that “shallow”?
just some thoughts.
razor on September 23rd, 2009 2:42 pm

you know what…I think God loved the video. He really enjoys watching Sun shake her booty for everyone. After all, he’s the maker of that bootylicious ass! Thank you Pastor Kong Hee for being so open minded and sharing your wife with us. You are one lucky man. I can’t wait for Sun’s next sexy video!
Melvin Chen on September 23rd, 2009 2:44 pm

Terence,

I don’t think JS’s view is naive.

You claim to support and praise Sun’s efforts, yet your so-called questions aren’t just raising a point of discussion, but its crafted with intent to say that she has stumbled others.

Quoting your exact words:
“Looking at this verse, can we say that Sun has stumbled “weak” Christians and thus sinned against Christ?”

This is more than a question, but is an implied suggestion, almost an accusation.

I need not repeat to you again on the difference between a stumble and an offense, but your original intent is very doubtful.
Salt and light on September 23rd, 2009 2:49 pm

Ho C K on September 23rd, 2009 12:15 am made a very good point. I was astounded whenPastor Kong equated Sun to Daniel and Proverbs to the Simpsons. It’s stretching a a bit far don’t u think? Over here in New Zealand , we’ve got a Christian singer Brooke Fraser who has a great voice n writes her own songs. She and Hayley Wistenra are both young singers who are proud to declare their faith . And they don’t need to ape Madonna or Lady Gaga or any of the MTV singers. I think we need to be in the world but not of the world. Sun can choose what she wants to do. But I think for Pastor Kong to go to the extent to say that it’s ok cos it’s “acting” is stretching it a bit too far. Is she supposed to be a role model for young girls ? Do they start going to clubs dressed like Madonna / Beyonce/ Britney Spears and gyrate / titillate to “reach” the “marketplace” ?
Melvin Chen on September 23rd, 2009 3:00 pm

I think even if they do dress very fashionably, for the right place/time, there’s nothing wrong either. Isn’t it?

Ask yourself this…did Jesus wear a priest robe? or appear religious? It took a kiss from a traitor to identify who he was. He looked just like anyone else.

Daniel was totally egyptianised, dressed, named, colored hair, but his faith was not eroded because of that.

Holiness is not a measure of the outward, what you dress, eat or drink, but an attitude of the heart. You can dress conservative and religious but with evil imaginations, or you can dress liberally with a heart that loves God.

What we dress, eat or drink is according to our faith. No man or church should dictate these. These are amoral, inconsequential to our faith. You will not be denied heaven for your choice of food, drinks or dressing.

Having said that, Sun’s dressing is fashionable and appropriate, for the right time and place and is within certain boundaries. She’s not for free sex or prosmicuity, it is obvious from her life message, her lifestyle, her counselling, her family life and proven character.

It is the religious judgmental minds that try to impose restrictions to an otherwise amoral issue.
Melvin Chen on September 23rd, 2009 3:00 pm

previous post address to ’salt and light’
TKH on September 23rd, 2009 3:02 pm

To Terence,

Thanks for the clarifcation. I need to highlight because your statements may be a little misleading at times.

Still praying that your faith in Christ will grow even stronger.

God bless!

TKH
Salty on September 23rd, 2009 3:05 pm

couldn’t agree more with salt and light. Why must we conform to the patterns of this world and act like monkeys. We are so much more with Christ in us.

Sun has been blessed with so many God given talents. Singing, dancing and so much more. But did she need to sell herself in such a manner? Sun really need not try so hard to save the world in this manner, God doesn’t need her help at all. I am sure my God would never ask anyone to show themselves as a sex image.
salty n0.2 on September 23rd, 2009 3:16 pm

agree with salt and light & salty
TKH on September 23rd, 2009 3:27 pm

To H. Liao,

I just have to comment on your remarks … how should I put it? Reading your comments seemed like reading a child’s diary … “why can’t you play by MY RULES? Why can’t you be like other people? Why can’t you behave like me?”

I think it’s time for you to wake up to a real world, and recognize that there are really different varieties in life, and that includes the music and entertainment industry. To reach different groups, you’ve got to be willing to be like Apostle Paul, “being all things to all men.” (1Cor 9:19) God has gifted us differently to reach specific groups of people. Instead of discouraging others from venturing into an area where we have not treaded before, we should pray for one another.

You have cast judgment on Sun by accusing her of promoting debauchery and overt sexuality, which is totally unfounded upon. Like a child, you have mistaken the Sun in the MV as the real Sun, which is the mistake that most children might make while growing up, thinking the actor is also a bad person in the real life as he is in the movie. You have your own diagnosis of your spiritual condition. If her singing and dancing makes you blush, obviously it is your problem, as you probably have been “blessed” with a “sanitized” environment.

Your comment on the Muslims, Hindus or Atheist being offended is laughable. Firstly, I know of many in these faiths who are not offended by such MV. What you see something on the news, my friend, are usually the minority of religious zealots. My question is: do you want to be like a religious zealot?

You are offended by the Scripture being twisted, can I ask which particular verses you felt are twisted? I would love to see if I can bring some clarification as I’m also pursuing a higher degree in Theology. Upholding the truth of God’s word is the passion of my heart, I wish I can help.

May God bless you in your spiritual growth.

TKH
to you on September 23rd, 2009 3:32 pm

“Like a child, you have mistaken the Sun in the MV as the real Sun, which is the mistake that most children might make while growing up, thinking the actor is also a bad person in the real life as he is in the movie.”

Well, so, you too worry that this MV will mislead children?
TKH on September 23rd, 2009 3:43 pm

If you are a real child, there is still hope as you can be educate to distinguish between reality and a movie.

But if you have a childish thinking, yah, i think you will be misleaded, not by the movie or the performance, or even the performer, but by your primitive mindset.

So, no, I’m not worry that the MV will mislead children as they can be taught.

God bless!

TKH
Omega Boy on September 23rd, 2009 3:55 pm

To all the salty people out there

Once again, we come back to the issue of taste. Kiwi Brooks Fraser has her own brand of music and Sun has her brand. What type of music do u prefer? Contemporary or Traditional?

Both are amoral and deal with a matter a taste and preferences.

Maybe u don’t appreciate hip hop dancing and prefer ball room dancing. It’s up to u? But I think Johann Strauss may not be so relevant today.

And if Mr Salty was to act in a movie entitled “Jesus” as “Judas Iscariot” – Don’t worry, I will not be as daft or as naïve to think that u are really a murderer or a back stabber in real life!

People in the Northern Hemisphere are generally more enlightened!
Lings on September 23rd, 2009 4:19 pm

Honestly, I think everyone’s entitled to their opinions but of course it is an art to be able to persuade one to your point of view. And in this case, I am referring to what kind of an artiste or a pop icon you all think Sun should be..

Some suggests she should be like Alicia Keyes, Jason Mraz or even Pink.

Awww.. c’mon, just cos she isn’t like the rest doesn’t mean she is lesser of a role model or a bad model right? I mean, look at the whole package! Her humanitarian efforts? What about the rest of the artistes? Though honestly, I’m not about to start comparing cos there will be no end to it, so I’m not going to start. My point is, as long as she is doing something right, as long as she was called to do this, as long as this is something not against her conscience, go for it! Isn’t this what creative expression all about?

Stop all that talk about stumbling.
Stumbling is when one goes back to past sins, so do we know of anyone personally who went back to a past sin BECAUSE of Sun?
Gee.. I wonder..

Did you notice that the ones who slam her are mostly Christians? Whereas the non-Christians don’t have a problem with her? Why? Because we impose our views and judgements upon her. So, why do we do that? Do we think we are better? Do we think we are right and she is wrong? Whatever gives us the right to think so?

In any case, this much I can admit, I used to be one of those who judged her. I used to think, hey, she shouldn’t dress like this, behave like this etc etc and then a friend reminded me about Mary.
Mary in her time, got pregnant before she got married. Can you imagine what ridicule and scrutiny, not to mention trials she would have to go through?
Why then did she say, let it be to me according to your word? Well, I am sure a lot went through her mind at that time, yet she said yes in faith – That she would go through all that at the word of the Lord.

Well, every pioneer faces challenges, and I’m talking about the likes of the Wright Brothers who said they could fly.

So, in my opinion, Sun is like Mary, like the Wright Brothers, she is breaking new grounds and it’s not easy for her.
Let’s look at this with an open mind, let’s not impose our views upon her. If one has so much opinion of what is and what should be, then go and be a celeb and be THAT celeb who in your Christian view is the shining beacon of righteousness in the dark world, and let’s see what others say about you!

Bible says whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them :)
happy on September 23rd, 2009 4:31 pm

not sure what will Sun do next? Go into hard porn to be the salt and light of people who lurks in that world?

Really where do you draw the line?

I heard the money to be made in hard porn is good – can then build more orphanages.
LYL on September 23rd, 2009 4:44 pm

Hi Salt and Light,
Equating Sun to modern day Daniel living in a contemporary Babylon is apt. The post modern world that we live in today is liken to the pagan Babylon of its days. Like Daniel, Sun likewise took on the world’s (pop culture) language, education, fashion, name and persona, and yet she didn’t compromise her own Christian values. I will not say that this parallel is far stretching. Rather, I applaud Pastor Kong for using the scriptures in the Bible to help us understand what being embodiment of cultural mandate is all about, and the forerunners who have been there and done that!

You said that, “Over here in New Zealand , we’ve got a Christian singer Brooke Fraser who has a great voice n writes her own songs. She and Hayley Wistenra are both young singers who are proud to declare their faith. And they don’t need to ape Madonna or Lady Gaga or any of the MTV singers.”

Well, Sun is also proud and bold to declare her faith. She has never once denied her faith in Christ. You are right to say that these young singers do not need to “ape Madonna or Lady Gaga or any of the MTV singers”. Sun clearly does not ape these entertainers as well. She has her own style, her own sound and is proud of it! I, for one, appreciate her creativity, originality and boldness to do what a Christian from Asia has never done before- penetrate Hollywood! With more than 30 number one songs under her belt, Sun is evidently talented and does not need to ape any of these singers!

[Salt and Light] “I think we need to be in the world but not of the world.”

You have set your case for the need of relevance to our world. Indeed, we need to be in the world to engage the world. But definitely, like Daniel, not compromise on our spiritual disciplines and the Word of God, when engaging culture.

[Salt and Light] “But I think for Pastor Kong to go to the extent to say that it’s ok cos it’s “acting” is stretching it a bit too far.”

Again, we must separate spiritual and secular, fact and fiction. Are you trying to say that it is not okay to act as a murderer, a gangster, a ‘bad’ person in a movie then? Following this line of argument, are you saying that a Christian actress/actor can only act in ‘goody two shoes’ roles? One will be naïve to think that an actor/actress is also a bad person in the real life as he/she is in the movie.

[Salt and Light] “Is she supposed to be a role model for young girls?”

Yes, as a public figure, Sun has the responsibility to be a role model for the younger generation. But being a role model does not mean that you just simply take her at face value based on the roles she take on in a music video or in a movie. Sun is a great role model for what she has done for the community as a humanitarian, for her boldness to realise her dreams and to live for the cause of God’s kingdom. You cannot deny the many lives that she has touched positively.

[Salt and Light] Do they start going to clubs dressed like Madonna / Beyonce/ Britney Spears and gyrate / titillate to “reach” the “marketplace” ?”

Sun has never purport that one has to go to clubs to “reach” the marketplace. The club was just used as a setting in the Chinawine MV! Hello, we need to look at the context! Given the MV context, Sun’s dance moves and costume is certainly acceptable and even mild in the context of the music entertainment sphere! I cringe at the thought that you have degraded these dance moves to gyrating and titillating.

By the way, you seem to be have an issue with the dressing of Madonna, Beyonce and Britney Spears alike? Given that fashion is based on one’s personal preference and taste, I will be careful in labelling what’s right and what’s not.
frank on September 23rd, 2009 4:48 pm

happy,

be very careful in what will happen to you next…

Woe to you who call evil good and good evil!
BB on September 23rd, 2009 4:51 pm

happy,

I think that u are too overly happy about the wrong things – better cut down on the hard porn my friend!

If hard porn is constantly on your mind – then it’s time to put away the filthiness
GTR on September 23rd, 2009 4:55 pm

To happy:

(QUOTE)
“I heard the money to be made in hard porn is good – can then build more orphanages.”
(UNQUOTE)

*smacks head*

Clearly, there are things in this world that are morally right and others that are outright wrong. Yet there are many that fall in between where there are no absolutes.

Sun, I dare say, is way too talented, smart, and loves herself enough to know how to treat her own life and body right.

Not sure what Sun will do next eh? Great, than don’t make such an asinine assumption as above :) It’s the lowest form of intelligence, if it can be called intelligent in any way..

Or perhaps, you can put your money where your mouth is.
Salt and light on September 23rd, 2009 5:15 pm

Just read through more of the posts and realised that Tsukuyomi on September 23rd, 2009 2:49 made a very valid point – and basically got clobbered by a no. of Kong Hee’s fans….Anyway , just to remind everyone that Daniel did NOT compromise. He refused to eat and drink at the king’s table cos the food was ritually unclean. God says “Be holy as I am holy”. Jesus was among the tax collectors and prostitutes – but he did not live their lifestyle. He loved sinners on His walk here with humanity but He had to die for their sins (and ours too) because He (the triune God) is holy. I am not judging Sun as she is not a pastor and has chosen to go into the entertainment business and decided to go the MTV way, or rather the Madonna, Lady Gaga, Beyonce way of suggestive moves and songs. To all her “pure” fans who see nothing wrong with those moves and (flesh coloured?) gym gear, I say good on you! But I would not want my teenage daughter dressing or dancing that way – call me old fashioned! What I find objectionable is the Pastor using parts of scripture to support his wife’s decision. If indeed one wants to separate the secular from the religious, I would imagine he should let people make their own decisions instead of trying in this article to silence critics by equating Proverbs to the Simpsons , and Daniel and/or Jesus to his wife; and worse to condemn critics as pharisees in Jesus’ time. I realise this is Kong Hee’s blog and I’ll get hammered for my views like others here who have disagreed with him. Again my point is this – Sun can choose to do what she wants…she only has to answer to God, not me or anyone else. Kong Hee is a pastor and he needs to hold himself to a higher standard – that of a man annointed by God to preach God’s word. Don’t use God’s word selectively to justify your wife’s career choice and worse, to condemn her detractors as pharisees. In the end , we are all sinners exhorted to be holy cos He is holy. Daniel refused to compromise and was thrown into the lion’s den. Jesus threw out the traders when they turned His father’s house into a den of thieves. If one of these traders was actually honestly selling his doves (ie not ripping off worshippers) and said he was there to reach out to the “marketplace” would it have made a difference to what Jesus did ? He was angry that they had defiled His Father’s house. And with the Holy Spirit, our bodies are the temple of God. What Sun wants to do with her talent and her body is between her and God. But what Kong Hee is doing is just a bit too far-out for me…I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I am happy for the Pastor and his wife to have such a supportive following. But I believe that those who disagree with Kong Hee’s views should not be villified. I am equally appalled at pastors who call his wife a “whore” or “hooker. That’s just wrong ! We all answer to God at the end of the day, not to one another and not to earthly pastors. Let’s all agree to disagree on what Sun is doing. But I would humbly ask the good Pastor not to equate wholesomeness to shallowness. I love U2 and Eric Clapton – their music speak for them and they do not need sexy moves or sexy dancers gyrating around them to win fans.Brooke Fraser and Hayley Wistenra may not appear in MTV but they are admired and respected by lots of music lovers without having to go the MTV route… Peace to all !
audiber on September 23rd, 2009 5:19 pm

Hi Pastor,

Thanks for your entry! I salute your boldness of always not avoiding any issue or uproaring opinion about yourself or Sun, but to face them and clarify any doubts straight-forth. That’s something not many can do in the first place.

Pastor, for that I’m very proud of you and Sun for being such BOLD role models to follow! :)

Unfortunately, one can never seek to please the entire world and what we reap from trying to defend our own actions or values often gets us 1001 perceptions from all grounds.

Despite the points you have brought forth time and again, many still can’t bring themselves to accept your ‘cultural mandate’ values and purpose in all that you’re doing. Especially for Sun, she gets the “shootings” stronger in an unimaginable way. Thus I believe her path is never for once easy to walk in, in the midst of trying to reach the masses and impact more lives out there.

The medium for any secularity she’s currently involved in is very much misunderstood, and seen as a ’stumbling block’ to the religious world….and sad to say, from those of like faith.

Even for Joseph, Esther and any ‘cultural mandate’ biblical character we can bring in, their lives are without a doubt tumultuous in their quest to shine for Christ by not compromising Christian values, yet in all PHYSICAL aspects they seem to be in complete compromise of their values. I feel in this line, it is essentially difficult to get many to understand that dressing or behaving according to occasion, is almost mutually exclusive as no one has the right to conclude that so-and-so is dressing as a _____ because she is a _____ (whatever to fill the blanks can be up to pure imagination, according to perception).

No offence to any but I feel if we were to all think like that, then logical it would be to directly assume a bespectacled person without good dress sense is a nerd, and a lady dressed “scantily” (once again subject to perception) is trying to seduce men.

This is gonna be a never-ending argument, in which we can never wish for a complete peaceful agreement either. As such I feel as long as what we do is in our opinion pleasing to God and not a compromise of OWN Christian values, that would suffice in our locus of control.

As for the rest, God can see, decide and judge for Himself.

We shouldn’t try to overtake that role.

All in all, Pastor and Sun…. we love you and will ALWAYS be supporting the both of you in ALL that you do! Cos we have seen the works (fruits) that was birthed from them all :)
John Lam on September 23rd, 2009 5:26 pm

Seems the criticism is about the dressing, the dance, the song & the image being portayed by a Christian. But if this same video was performed by another “secular” artiste, no Christians are going to condemn it. We watch so many videos on MTV. The point is we (Christians or non-C) don’t ask ourselves if this is Christian whenever we watch a movie or music video or listen to a song etc. We judge it by its creativity, entertainment value, message & story. I never came out from a movie & my church friends went “Is this a Christian movie”? We just comment on whether the movie is good. China Wine is the same.
danieljx on September 23rd, 2009 5:41 pm

To Happy:

[QUOTE]*smack head*[UNQUOTE]
YOURS?

Pls don’t insinuate demeaning comments here!

Get a life!
happy on September 23rd, 2009 6:05 pm

right – I agree with Pastor – prostitutes will go to heaven.

In the same context – so will hard porn actress who confess and lead a better life. and build orphanages

Seriously – who is to judge.
guitarwu on September 23rd, 2009 6:13 pm

Hi Pastor!

I agree fully with you that we should separate fiction from fact and the beautiful truth is that God is not against pop culture.

Sun is really placing the Cultural Mandate into action. And she is doing very well! I am very proud of her. It’s not easy being Asian to enter into American music, but she did it. She has proven to many that indeed all things are possible despite of the impossibilities.

It hasn’t been easy to listen and hear about the bad remarks of Sun but you still keep on keeping on for what is right. That’s truly an example of being courageous.. I’m all for you pastor!

Sun’s gonna be the history-maker and world shaker! =D
Wayne Tay on September 23rd, 2009 6:19 pm

Hi Ps Kong

I must confessed that I am not a big fan of Sun but however I am supporting the initiatives for us to reach out in the media industry,

I am laughing thru’ those comments that people mentioned that Sun was scantily dressed. Haha!

Everyone has different standard of “Scantily dressed” as indecency. Do we defined people wearing swimming trunks / bikini at the pool as scantily dressed or indecent?

I am really wondering… what are the people thinking when they looking at the China Wine video?

Mark 7:15
There is nothing from outside of a man that can defile him by entering into him: but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile the man.

End of the day, it is about culture!

Everybody’s talking about engagement the lost…so who’s doing it? Our Sun is doing and we should be proud of it… she must be suffering from the immense pressure to face from the public…

it is like Jesus facing from the Pharisees yeah?

P.S “Pastor, Aizai. You are the man of God, by the way, China Wine cheography is awesome “
poppers on September 23rd, 2009 6:37 pm

Repentant ones will get to heaven. But Happy, i think you better remove your fingers and mouth … Better that they burn, than your whole soul does. You are totally crude with your words.
JS on September 23rd, 2009 6:52 pm

Dear Terence,

Another side-step of the question?

“You doubt my support for Sun because I raised doubts about her. You said that praise should be full praise and partial praise. That is a very naive view.

I support her, despite some of my reservations about her actions. Likewise, just because I am pro-Singapore does not mean I support everything the Singapore government does? To agree 100% with something or someone is just impossible, which I’m sure you’ll agree.”

I disagree…

The word “support” as defined in the dictionary is one of the following:

1. to bear or hold up (a load, mass, structure, part, etc.); serve as a foundation for.
2. to sustain or withstand (weight, pressure, strain, etc.) without giving way; serve as a prop for.
3. to undergo or endure, esp. with patience or submission; tolerate.
4. to sustain (a person, the mind, spirits, courage, etc.) under trial or affliction:
5. to maintain (a person, family, establishment, institution, etc.) by supplying with things necessary to existence; provide for: to support a family.
6. to uphold (a person, cause, policy, etc.) by aid, countenance, one’s vote, etc.; back; second.
7. to maintain or advocate (a theory, principle, etc.).
8. to corroborate (a statement, opinion, etc.):
9. to act with or second (a lead performer); assist in performance:
,
Definitions 1-2 talks about non-personal support.

For definitions 3-9, it talks about support for a cause or an individual.

I do not see the existence of doubt anywhere in the latter 7 definitions.

So when you cast or create doubt over any cause or anyone, you cannot say that you are ’supporting” that cause or person.

By the way, what I quoted about praise being unreserved and limitless is from the Bible.

I would think more than twice before I call the Bible, which is a God-inspired book, naive.

“You claim I am trying to ask a loaded question. I don’t deny that. I’m not a debater, like you boast to be. Sometimes I do slip into asking loaded questions.”

Since you agree that you do slip into”asking loaded questions”, then perhaps, you should not claim that it is a “discussion”? I think Melvin Chen has replied you on the effects of a loaded question.

“Let me tell you I am genuinely asking a question about 1 Cor, not trying to insinuate anything.”

We do not need to cast doubts on other’s intent or motive in order to get an answer to a genuine question. We just need to ask the question by itself.

With regards to the voting thingy….that’s my conversation with Edmund, so your vote is not required. Thanks for the interest, though!

Cheers,
JS
JS on September 23rd, 2009 6:57 pm

Dear Happy….

Be very careful about what you say as we will all be held accountable for every spoken (or written) word on the day we meet Jesus.

Don’t be caught speechless on that day…

Praying for you,
JS
gra on September 23rd, 2009 7:40 pm

When one is asked to picture an image of a table in his mind,
what does he see?
Some will find themselves picturing wooden tables.
Others will see a round table…a metal table or even a long table.

There is no wrong answer to it.
God has uniquely created mankind.
Different backgrounds, different cultures, and different lifestyles etc influence our world-views….and create a different perspective in different minds.

If we are living in a rural village, we might not even have proper tables so instead of using proper tables our definitions of tables might just be a piece of cloth.
That piece of cloth might be coined as a ‘table’ in the village.

Human create words and they attached meanings to the words to communicate to one another. Different words form different meanings in different cultural context.
Therefore when people don’t understand things in context, disagreements and misunderstandings surfaced.

Every word communicates and holds a different meaning to different people. The good thing to do is to be on the same page and relate to things in context.

However my question does not end with, “What is the right context God’s eyes?” but who are we to say that unity needs to live in the right context.

SunShines! =)
Truth on September 23rd, 2009 8:23 pm

To ‘happy’, to all others who are similarly not too ‘happy’ about Sun and her MVs,

So much for knowing and saying ‘Who is to judge’, when you yourself have been passing judgmental, rude and crude remarks.

I guess you probably are too ignorant to know what is the appropriate word to categorize Sun and her works that you’ve came out with a list of rude and senseless ones. My friends, this is what we call the POP CULTURE (Definition: the sum of ideas, perspectives, attitudes, images and other phenomena that are deemed preferred per an informal consensus within the mainstream of a given culture.)

If to you, anything less than your ‘HIGH’ culture or your FOLK culture is deemed and defined as prostitute (or any other lowly words you would have used), I highly encourage you to return to planet earth.

Knock knock? Mind your words. What you sow, you’ll always always reap. Trust me on that :)
happy on September 23rd, 2009 8:24 pm

My apologies to all who are offended.

I am pretty new to the Christian faith, and yes, I am confused with what I see on China wine.

I wish her well and I wish all of you the best in life. God bless.
Cana on September 23rd, 2009 9:39 pm

Hi, since this topic is on your blog, my husband and I would like to say something and would pray that you dont take us as your enemy but regards us as your bro and sister in Christ sharing our sincere thoughts. firstly, to fulfill cultural mandate does Sun has to go to the extend of letting men touch her body? secondly, i think it is not a matter of people associate Sun with you a pastor but dont forget she is a Christian, a leader and whatever movie, shows a person presents, he or she educates a person one way or another. it is too naive to say the subtitle being distorted, dont both Sun and you know that to enter into entertainment world this is it. thirdly, i ever heard you preached about Jesus turn water into wine and you took the opportunity to defense your wife ‘coz of ‘china wine” video. we all know during the Bible time wine is like water and no sin to drink wine but not promoting wine like the way the ‘china wine’ did, touching the body?? my daughter saw the ‘china wine’ video feeling stumbled and keep asking me why like that, i’m a pastor’s wife too but i dont want to comment much let alone, explain to her why Sun did it, so my question is where is accountability? if you say you cant help it so what about the principle of love someone enough by not doing it to stumble another (1 Cor 13). I hope you dont see my family as judgemental and as your enemy but I it is too navie to write those things and just sharing my daughter’s experience after watching the ‘wine video” and sharing from a pastor’s wife point of view. thank you, ps kong.
Hock Beng on September 23rd, 2009 10:26 pm

I wanted to say that to be in the Ivory tower telling people what’s right and what’s not isn’t going to work if we want to reach out to the world … However, after reading Cana’s post and then deciding to take a look at “China wine”, even though part of me wants to say it’s art, I can’t help but agree that it was a bit too arty, for me to consume, knowing who she is or used to be … but then again, who am I to comment? God bless her and all around her. If she has committed a sin, please let the people in her church tell her so and bring a few to talk to her and if all fails, kick her out. Else, again, who are we to judge?
Simplegal on September 23rd, 2009 10:28 pm

Seriously… if Sun Ho is not a pastor’s wife, would there be so many comments about her dressing, dancing, and singing? LOL

Personally I feel that Sun Ho has the courage to go for her dreams which many of us do not have. When she first started out, she is considered “too old” to make it. But look at her now, she made it all the way to Hollywood and top many of the charts with her singles. Now… shouldn’t we acknowledge her work? I don’t think it comes easy. The lady must have work her heart out to attain such results.

What wrong has she done? Is being professional wrong? Is being married to a pastor wrong? Is being a Christian wrong? I don’t think so… Dressing the way she did in China Wine is just to fit the script. I don’t know her personally but I guess she doesn’t dress like that all the time, does she? From her facebook photos, she looks quite decent to me…

I think everyone has a choice. If you don’t like her songs or MVs, just don’t watch it. Don’t have to be so critical about it… Chill man…
Duffy on September 23rd, 2009 10:43 pm

AWESOME post Pst! I am really touched at the way you stand up for SUN. it takes great courage to post on a topic that is so dear to you heart. i sincerely applaud you for taking that stand. ,we will always be an ardent fan of SUN and you no matter what the critics may say :)

And I often wonder if SUN was just a Christan girl-next-door, will she have the same reaction from the public. “As a professional artist, Sun has to take on many dramatic stage personas. This is what entertainers do.” I agree with this point! There are actors out there with strong christian values that often have take on many dramatic stage personas too and sometimes have to say things that are off the script that may not sound too ‘christian like’ but it’s really cos what their job requires… and one of them is an award winning Actor- Denzel Washington.
JNS on September 23rd, 2009 10:54 pm

SUN is totally outstanding. To able to stand out in her field demands utter excellence, professionalism and hard work (to think otherwise give it a try). SUN is definitely a giant in the land of giants. Imagine, to rub shoulders with hugely successful Wyclef Jean (fyi son of a pastor and totally cool guy) and music veteran David Foster in Hollywood, music ambassador for Beijing Olympics, Charity Ambassador of Love, etc, are no ordinary achievements. Come on, would a mediocre artiste be able to do that? Isn’t she shining brightly as a role model that we ought to be in our chosen fields?

Sun is a courageous voice who advocates one can be free to pursue your dreams, have fun, live life clear of conscience, highly successful and loves God at the same time. This is the 21st century world we are living in. There is no need to be stuck in a box restrained by others’ opinions. Life is too short for that!

Another perspective of mine is there are so many celebs out there and mind you, worldwide, struggling with depression, suicidal inclinations, immense media pressure, public with “well meant criticism”, tons of others. SUN is an experienced and trained counsellor, at the same time, she is able to relate to the industry namely arts & entertainment totally, to be a friend and blessing to the celebs, not many can do that.

Great work and Love SUN!
Dalvin on September 23rd, 2009 11:11 pm

Hi Pastor Kong,

Very well said indeed Pastor. I think Sun is doing an amazing work not only in the music industry but also in the humanitarian work she has been doing all over the world. In 2008, during the Asia Conference in Singapore, I saw the video clip of Sun’s work in India and that truly touched my heart and inspired me to engage in humanitarian work too. Well, ultimately.., only God knows the true condition of our hearts and so who are to condemn, point fingers or judge? Let us continue to encourage brave men & women of God who have the courage to step out into the marketplace despite all criticisms and challengers to be the “Daniels & Esthers” of our generation! *Salute*
guitarwu on September 24th, 2009 12:55 am

Hi H. Liao
Sun is also conveying a message from her single, Fancy Free, too! You can view that from http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/2182261#utm_campaign=twitter.com&utm_source=2182261&utm_medium=social.

I believe every different artistes has different message to convey and Sun is simply different from Colbie Cailat, Taylor Swift, Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc. =)

——–

Hey Terence Lee,
Nice to see you around.

I agree with what Reuel Eugene said,
“to ’stumble’, simple put, means to cause them to stumble in their faith towards God”.

I seriously dun think people has backslidden because of Sun’s video. I wonder if you have come across people like that? =)

——–

Hi Tsukuyomi

Like you said, most youths cant hardly see beyond to look for deeper meanings. So that means, they will look up to Lady Gaga, follow her tweets, check out what she has been doing and think “oh, that’s what’s life’s about.”

So if these youths follow Sun on twitter, they will find out what she has been doing and think, “oh, that’s what’s life’s about.”

Sun has been doing humanitarian works, so isn’t that good for the youths to follow? =)

——–

Hi weena,
I am from chc, i listen to western pop, and i am still all for Sun! =)

——–

Hi Cana,

We need to separate fact from fiction.

Let’s take a look at an ice-skating competition. The male skater has to hold OR so-called “touch” the lady. Does it stumble to kids who are watching it?

Just a thought. =)
stargazing on September 24th, 2009 1:13 am

Dear Pst,

Thank you for addressing this issue, especially after Sun has just released her latest single “Fancy Free”.

I admit that it is reallly a big paradigm shift from religion, and it would not have been easy for the conservatives to come to terms to China Wine.

To me, when i see that, all the more i salute Sun’s courage into crossing into Hollywood. It takes so much courage to be in there, yet a certain level of spirituality and holiness to be not of the world.

If the “geisha” in China wine is only a role that Sun is playing, why are we so uncomfortable with it? As a form of art on its own, can we admire it for its artistic value? If Daniel can learn the language and literature of the Chaldeans and be well versed in it, then who are we to shoot Sun down and accuse her of being worldly? it is not just what is being portrayed in the video, but who she is.

And i would certainly agree, that Sun has been a great example and inspiration to us all. Her love for people, her great works. Indeed, we know a tree by its fruits. I feel that Sun’s fruits have testified for her, and by her good works, men can glorify our Father in Heaven. (Matt 5:16)

The more i understand the essence of cultural mandate, the more i understand that it takes one who is not shallow in his/her faith to shine for the Lord in the marketplace. Having said that, i sincerely appreciate Sun for what she is doing. She is truly exemplifying the message for us. By being one of the first Asians to have crossed over to Hollywood, she has indeed proven the fact that nothing is impossible.

Thank you Sun for living out the message, and for your courage to step out there and try. You are my inspiration, for daring to live out your dreams. And with the life of Sun, i feel that this is what we can take away with.

Kudos to Sun, and thank you Pst once again for this post. :)
roy chandra on September 24th, 2009 2:07 am

Hi Pastor Kong,

Great article.. I am with you and Sun all the way~!! So glad to find that what you wrote is in line with how i explained to the people around me when they are confused about why Sun is in the entertainment industry.. My prayer is that the people will be able to look at yours and Sun’s fruits.. God bless..

With Love, Roy
ckz on September 24th, 2009 2:57 am

Salt n light- u said
“But I would humbly ask the good Pastor not to equate wholesomeness to shallowness. I love U2 and Eric Clapton – their music speak for them and they do not need sexy moves or sexy dancers gyrating around them to win fans.”

I beg to differ that Pastor Kong is equating wholesomeness with shallowness. He is simply trying to persuade us not to put God in a box and equate holiness n wholesomeness to long white dresses or priestly robes.
Just as it is ludricous to equate all men donning a turban and beard to be terrorists, it is equally ridiculous to judge her moral values n holiness based on her dressing or performance in an MV??
pls don’t take his words out of context.

Happy-
U know why Jesus said tt prostitutes n tax-collectors will enter heaven before the pharisees?
It is because they r quick to repent n slow to judge.
This will be a good time to follow their example n u might still make it!
I’ll be praying for u :)

Lastly dear pastor kong,
Just want to say that no matter what others may say, me and my wife have witnessed and been ard enough to say that…”We will love you n your house all the way!”
IEL on September 24th, 2009 3:55 am

Hi Pastor,

AWESOME-NESS!:)
i truly agree, that music, concepts, fashion…they’re all art.
They’re expressions of how a person can look and see in this world.

Hmm, i feel that more than just being quick to judge and criticize, first of all, it is really not very nice to come Sun’s husband and labelled her “whore” and what not. Why would anyone with a common sense do that? To come before her husband and insult his wife, into his face like that? Wouldnt that be very hurtful? What’s your motive for being so mean then? So is being religious means that you’re less sensitive to others’ feelings?

I wont deny that Sun’s image; the way she dress up and the style of music and dance are “wild”, personally i feel that that’s just because we, Asians are just not as open as the western people. It’s a cultural issue. I have many people questioning me about the way some christians live, simply because they saw their photos on FB, taken at a club…then i have to mention my point of view:

A person who DOESNT go to club…doesnt mean that the person will not backslide, thinking that maybe he or she wants to go back to live the life he or she wants to live.

Likewise for Sun, being very fashionable and adventurous in her career doesnt mean she is a bad influence to the christians. It doesnt mean she’s rebellious and worldly. It doesnt mean she doesnt have her stand with God, and not that she doesnt have values, and what more, character.

As an artiste, she has this ability to do “repairs” in different parts of the world. Being so “wild” and liberal, she has impacted so many lives…and whoever being conservative and critical, have you?

I truly respect her courage and strength…despite of endless criticisms, you didnt stop what you’re doing; to love people and do what you can to make a difference in people’s lives. has anyone ever think of that?

maybe we should all think alil more, think beyond what you can see, behind the perceptions which the world could have upon her.:)
LYL on September 24th, 2009 6:59 am

Hi Cana,
Thank you for sharing your views.

Everyone is entitled to his own views and I am sure that Ps Kong is totally fine and even open to what everyone of us have to share. Looking at all the comments that are posted on the blog, positive and negative ones, we can be sure he is open to our personal views! No hard feelings!

You mentioned that It is too naive for Pastor Kong “to say the subtitle being distorted, don’t both Sun and you know that to enter into entertainment world this is it.”

I am sure Sun and Ps Kong already knows what the entertainment world is like prior the ‘cross over’. In fact, Sun being a veteran in the music entertainment scene and given the relationship Pastor Kong has with Sun, they should know more about entertainment and the challenges that comes it, better than either one of us! They are definitely not naïve!

[Cana] Firstly, to fulfill cultural mandate does Sun has to go to the extend of letting men touch her body?
I have watched the Chinawine video one more time prior to writing this comment; and in no part of the MV did I see Sun allowing men touch her body. Female dancers yes, but men, no.

[Cana] So my question is where is accountability? if you say you cant help it so what about the principle of love someone enough by not doing it to stumble another (1 Cor 13).

We love our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, but also the unchurched. Like what Ling and TKH have mentioned in their entries, stumbling is when one goes back to past sins, I don’t think that a Chinawine MV will have the effect of causing someone to go back to a past sin BECAUSE of Sun. Obviously your daughter has not. If an individual has indeed left his faith just because of one MV like this, it is apparent that his Christian faith is not build on God, but on men then.
LYL on September 24th, 2009 7:21 am

Hi Hock Beng,
I am appalled by your statement, “If she has committed a sin, please let the people in her church tell her so and bring a few to talk to her and if all fails, kick her out.”

I thank God that my church does not ‘kick me out’ when I have done something wrong. I do not know about you, but I sure have done many wrong things even after becoming a believer. It is having a mentality like this that deters people from coming to Christ and to the church. Don’t talk about the unbelievers, even a Christian like me, I guess, will never meet up to YOUR standard of righteousness. The church is not never meant for perfect people. If it is, it will definitely not have room for many (if not all) of us. We are sinners that saved by God’s grace.

May the Lord enlighten you what being a minister of Christ that demonstrates the love of God, is all about.
Discomfort on September 24th, 2009 9:02 am

Watched China wine again.

Yes 4 pairs of hands were touching her body, thighs, inner tighs, stomach. They were girls’ hands and it does not look right to me. 4 Girls touching another girl’s body on stage.

Is it not the right of Ps Kong to ensure that only he can touch her in those parts and in that manner – in the privacy of his bedroom?

At the end of the day, I agree with Salt and Light.

We need to watch the youtube with our teenage daughters/sons and make it a teachable moment. – and make it clear that this is the artificial world – much like pornography – where disgusting things are made up to look normal and acceptable.

And we have to be careful what this church teaches also. That she is actually the Daniel of today.

And we wonder why there are 1200 teen abortions per year in Singapore when we are bombarded by such images everyday, and then made to think it is harmless and its critics are Pharisees.

God bless.
David on September 24th, 2009 9:09 am

Hi Pastor

What an awesome article! Really impressed by what Sun is doing and shining for the Lord! She is a role model for us how to be the salt & light to the world! She is just like Daniel, Joseph in our generation. If everyone believers can engage into the world just like her, I’m sure we can win the entire world for Christ!

Thank you Pastor for your inspired words! We love you & support Pastor & Sun and even fight for you at all the time! May God bless Pastor & Sun!
LYL on September 24th, 2009 9:18 am

Dear Salt and Light,
You mentioned that “Daniel did NOT compromise. He refused to eat and drink at the king’s table cos the food was ritually unclean. God says “Be holy as I am holy”. Jesus was among the tax collectors and prostitutes – but he did not live their lifestyle.”

I would say that just from the Chinawine MV, it is unfair and baised to come to a conclusion that Sun has compromised on her Christian faith. How has Sun’s dressing and dance moves in Chinawine imply that she has fallen away from her Christian faith?

You are right in saying that Jesus did not live the lifestyle of the sinners. But this statement in itself seems to imply that Sun does. In what way have you come to this conclusion? From what I know, Sun does not live a lifestyle of drugs or free sex. Neither does she smoke or speak profane vulgarities. In fact, she has never once denied her Christian faith. And may I add on, the truth is: you and I do not even live in a ‘close proximity’ with Sun to conclude on her personal spiritual life. To even imply that Sun is living a lifestyle of a sinner, surely reveals judgmentalism.

[Salt and Light] Don’t use God’s word selectively to justify your wife’s career choice and worse, to condemn her detractors as pharisees.

I do not see anything wrong with using the Word of God to clarify and support the notion of the cultural mandate. Jesus, for example, used the Old Testament scriptures to validate God’s purpose for the Sabbath and thus support his actions of healing on the Sabbath.

One imperative principle in the hermeneutical task of discerning the purpose of Scripture is this: To examine what “God did” through the unfolding history of moral values, norms and principles in the Bible and utilize these to discern what “God is doing” in the contemporary situation which we are living in today; to inform and illuminate a decision process that is faced in its present time and place.

[Salt and Light] Let’s all agree to disagree on what Sun is doing.

That’s a very strong statement to make! I, for one, will NOT agree to disagree on what Sun is doing. And I believe that there are MANY out there, Christians or non-Christians alike, who will NOT agree with your stand either.

[Salt and Light] But I would humbly ask the good Pastor not to equate wholesomeness to shallowness.

I have read Ps Kong’s blog several times and found that he has never equated wholesomeness to shallowness. Rather, he was just stating some findings of a 1993 survey in Eyes Wide Open: Looking For God in Popular Culture by author William D. Romanowski which concludes the following,
1. Christian popular arts are inferior imitations as compared to mainstream culture.
2. Christian popular arts are unrealistic, sanitized versions of the real world.
3. Christian popular arts are limited in content and purpose

The above is not Pastor Kong said, it is what the churchgoing Christians highlighted in the survey taken,

Blessings.
Pink on September 24th, 2009 9:37 am

Dear David,
As a member attending City Harvest Church, I would like say that Ps Kong is doing a great job in imparting the Word of God to us every weekend. Many of us have been greatly blessed by his ministry. I do not find anything wrong with him sharing that Sun is liken to modern day Daniel or Joseph. In Matthew 12:40 (c.f. Jonah 1:17), Jesus also made reference to Jonah for his ministry. The Bible has stories of the various heroes of faith like Abraham, David, Joseph, Paul, Peter, Gideon etc to teach us certain key lessons, encourage us and be examples for us. Even Paul exhorts the Romans to imitate him as he imitates Christ (Rom 11:1). There is nothing wrong in Sun in emulating Biblical Daniel either.
Discomfort on September 24th, 2009 10:00 am

LYL said – I would say that just from the Chinawine MV, it is unfair and baised to come to a conclusion that Sun has compromised on her Christian faith. How has Sun’s dressing and dance moves in Chinawine imply that she has fallen away from her Christian faith?

You will allow your wife / daughter /sister on stage being touched by 4 girls on the inner thigh?

There is nothing amoral about it? Have you watched the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEpMG5jVqC8

Thanks. God bless.
Discomfort on September 24th, 2009 10:16 am

just want to check around first – all 28,000 members agree there is nothing amoral with the video?
LYL on September 24th, 2009 10:39 am

Dear Discomfort,
As mentioned, I have already watched the video. Thanks for the link anyway.

As an answer to your question, first let us realise that what you saw in the music video is a music video, its not a portrayal of Sun in ‘real’ life. We got to look at the context. Sun was just role playing as a girl working in a nightclub, hence to me, such gestures are totally acceptable within the boundaries of professional entertainment. Like what I mentioned in my previous post, if you were to compare this MV to other MTVs in the music entertainment sphere today, it is already considered mild to to the veterans in the Industry.

For me, personally, in ‘real’ life, I will definitely be offended if someone touches my inner tigh. Having said that, I have the maturity to differentiate between fiction (Sun taking on a ‘geisha’ persona in a music video like Chinawine) and fact (who she really is in real life).

Hope this clarifies your queries.
JNS on September 24th, 2009 11:30 am

Discomfort, I’ve watched China Wine MV so many times, there is nothing amoral about it, it’s purely arts n entertainment. there are so many forms of creativity expressed in so many different ways today, we can’t be going around labelling people as immoral, maturity is where one knows how to discern facts n fiction and make personal responsible decisions. Agree with LYL.
uJ on September 24th, 2009 11:53 am

I guess at the end of the day, you can’t force an opinion down the throats of people.

If someone feels an MV is good, it’s good.

If someone feels an MV is sleazy and inappropriate, then let it be.

I don’t think we should get into so many challenging of changing mindsets and forcing people to agree with a certain opinion.

China Wine to some is a great song; to another is a bad song. The same for every chart-topping hit.

It’s called consumer’s taste and preferences.

If people are stumbled, you can’t blame them for being shallow or being stupid or being backward in their faith.

Neither can you blame it on the delivery or the intention.

In reality, consumers don’t care what a product’s original intention is or was; they receive whatever that is delivered to them.

If the message is being perceived differently from the intention, you can’t blame the consumer for it, right?
Salty on September 24th, 2009 12:01 pm

At the end of the day, you can call it whatever you want. MTV, art, fashion. The crux of the matter should not have been the content of that clip but the choice she made to do it. Why did she even bother to do it???

Honestly, I think Sun was duped and misguided into doing the video. Quality wise, it’s really a terrible video and a lousy song that didn’t make sense. I found the lyrics online and here’s an excerpt,

“When di body ready wine it up
In da club on di dance in china it up
Wyclef boss blame and grind it up
Cau di we she, move she is attitude
It was seem something looks like fine ah!”

I really don’t understand what it means man…Oh, and the asian sterotypes don’t help at all. Don’t you think Sun deserves much better material than this?

Personally, I feel Sun was doing fine and very well in the Taiwan market. Her chinese MTVs were really quite nice too and the songs were meaningful and enjoyable to listen.
Esther on September 24th, 2009 12:42 pm

Hi Pastor,

How’s your meeting in Sabah? Are you following all these closely?

It must have taken alot of prayer, courage & assurances from God before you publish the post.

I hope you are assured from all the supportive comments that many of us are behind you & Sun. Indeed this will not be an easy route to take – maybe that’s why it’s you & not me. =）

There’ll be people who’re unhappy with what you & Sun are doing but there’ll also be many who will stand behind you. All of us are made uniquely from God & He’s given us free will to allow different teachings & influence to shape our convictions & preferences. So it’s inevitable that there will be some who disagree. I only hope that we continue to take a balanced view instead of an extreme one. Like the path to heaven is in the middle (straight & narrow) but not on extreme ends.

I hope all the ‘fight’ will not stop you from obeying God when He prompts you to take a stand. This job is not for the faint-hearted.

I will continue to pray for you.

Love you pastor & I’m proud to be your member.
hock beng on September 24th, 2009 12:51 pm

To LYL, I think the flow of my comments was to tell pple to mind their own business and I was actually trying to relate to a verse in the Book. Sorry I do not read it enough and so I just did some google and found the verse! It says in Matthew 15 “If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[b] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.” Granted “kick her out” is not “treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector”. Thanks for pointing it out. BTW, I am not righteous.
Vincent on September 24th, 2009 12:57 pm

Coming from a traditional denominational church for more than 20 years. I have tried many “start-up” including many praise services(with leadship blessing) only to find that when the service get stronger (>400 members) the leadership will have “excuses” to close it down. Than when I observe City Harvest for the last 4 years from inside (yes I have been attending every week) I can’t help but to come to 1 conclusion.

Most churches really preaches the biblical tradition well. It seek to Conserve, be Contented and be Consecrated. Living below the given line that we are in.

CityHarvest equip members through very practical engagement to Breakthrough their given line. Enabling member to Excel, Exceed and be Examplary in the society.

Many a times, even though our conscious mind may agreed with an empowering message, but I soon discovered that our sub-conscious mind seek to embodied it with our existing culture that soon render the power messsage – weak. New wine in Old wine skin.

Looking at Sun’s MTV I felt strange knowing she is your wife. But I feel great knowing a Singaporean penetrated into mainstream music industry. Raising our flag in area that no Singaporean has been. I prayed for her constantly as I know the great temptation therein. I must say her MTV is of high standard. I often asked myself isn’t this being Salt and Light?

Wholesome or Shallowness is a perspective one take. This perception constantly derive from that maturity of a person to accept good works done by others that maybe using differing methods.

Straight-Talker
GTR on September 24th, 2009 1:09 pm

People can go on attacking the China Wine MV; it sucks, it’s got bad choreography, bad dancing, bad costumes, bad this bad that…

But so many people for some reason have failed to distinguish reality from fantasy, fact from fiction, the true character of Sun from the fictional geisha character in China Wine that she plays.

Anthony Hopkins played Hannibal Lector, but is he a cold blooded psychotic killer in real life?

Ralph Fiennes in Schindler’s List played the evil and cruel Commandant Amon Goth of the Nazi Concentration camp in Plazow; the same dude who played Voldermort in the Harry Potter movies. Is he like that in real life too??

I can go on and on to no end but I think this point has been stated well enough by many others before me who have commented.

Thing is, when you criticise someone’s character just by viewing one MV, WITHOUT knowing the person, you must be a really sorry judgmental character.. and i hope you do realize that and repent.

Any intelligent being knows that you don’t need to have a PHD in quantum physics to know a simple thing like that.

There are people out there who are genuinely ignorant or weak in their faith and who raise questions because they are concerned with where their faith stands. They raise their questions, but the manner in which they word them are also humble and commendable. I have no problems with the above group of people.

However, when you read all the comments written above, you can’t help but feel there are SOME who have no intention of strengthening others’ faith, but have their own agendas for slamming another person’s character.

Whatever the motive may be, may God and God alone be the sole supreme judge of who is right or wrong, whose intentions were genuine and whose were dubious. It’s not for you nor I to determine as such.

At the end of the day, every idle word we speak and every work we do is to be judged. Whether Sun gets a bountiful reward or a damnation, the verdict is still out there.

On a personal note, in my own opinion, I don’t see how Sun’s works can be a cause, a justification for damnation. I personally do not know of any other entertainer who has led so many (hundreds of thousands, maybe more) to Christ.

I for one haven’t done that much.. So unless you have surpassed that, I don’t think you’re deemed fit to criticize the works she has done much less attack her character.

Peace out
Terence Lee on September 24th, 2009 2:10 pm

JS,

going to the dictionary does not resolve the weakness of your argument. Just because “doubt” is not included as part of “support” does not mean it isn’t there.

Let’s use a bit of common sense shall we? Just because I support Swensens restaurant does not mean that I like all the food on their menu? Just because I like Christina Aguilera does not mean I like every song on her albums?

In the same way, just because I support Sun does not mean I have to like or approve of every of her songs or actions? It seems to me that your definition of support would entail approving of her every action and every decision. I just don’t get it. Why can’t I express my disapproval of China Wine just like how I disapprove of Christian Aguilera’s Stripped album, which is overtly sexual?

I still admire Christina Aguilera because overall, I believe she is a great entertainer. Similarly for Sun, just because I have reservations about Sun or City Harvest Church for example, does not mean I don’t support them?

I don’t admire individuals who support a person or institution and says everything they do is right. The truth of the matter is this: no human is perfect.

JS, would you dare say that Sun has not had a single misstep every since she went on the her career path? I’m sure not right? If I’m not mistaken, maybe you are playing the role of a cheerleader, supporting Sun every step of the way. Maybe you do disagree with some of the things she did, but chose not to express it because of your affiliations with the church?

Or perhaps as an undying loyalist, you approve of everything she does?

I still hold my reservations about China Wine and Mr Bill and like uJ said, it is a matter of preference. I dislike the orientalism happening in both music videos, portraying Asians as so-called Geishas who are grammatically challenged. Honestly speaking, I don’t need another Asian artist to portray Asians as geishas and sex objects. The American media has done that far enough. If you don’t know already, non-Asians tend to equate Geishas as prostitutes. I think both videos unfortunately suffer from this deficiency of perpetuating unsavoury stereotypes about Asians. I take issue also with the sexually suggestive dance moves of some of the dancers in the video and the promotion of the clubbing lifestyle.

But I will concede that China Wine is milder compared with what other artistes have put out there. Nonetheless, is the risk of angering the conservative Christian community worth the venture? Should Sun have alienated conservative Christians further just because of China Wine? Or is the oppositional reaction unanticipated? Or perhaps Sun should have been aware of the sensitivities of the crowd by being more conservative while pushing into the American market?

I think China Wine can be seen as a compromise, some people still take offense at it. But I think these are questions only Sun herself can answer, because she is after all the one that decided the artistic direction of the video. But if China Wine is merely an exception as opposed to a norm (Fancy Free seems rather conservative and more well-received), then was it wise in retrospect to have launched that video at that point of time, knowing people might not like it? People who take offense at Sun unfortunately are a very vocal lot, so was it worth the effort to win them over and tone down the content a little it? Or has Sun seen them as a lost cause?

With regards to the loaded question issue, I don’t get your insistence on it. Like I said, a discussion is not a research endeavor or formal debate. Just because I used a loaded question does not mean I am not genuinely asking a question. Why are you harping on it?
Terence Lee on September 24th, 2009 2:15 pm

“I take issue also with the sexually suggestive dance moves of some of the dancers in the video and the promotion of the clubbing lifestyle.”

And in case some of you take want to say that I am contradicting with my earlier statements, let me clarify myself:

When I first saw China Wine, I didn’t think much of the sexually suggestive dance moves. After all, maybe videos already have them. But after thinking it through, I’ve changed my mind. Just because some people will be aroused even if some girls “put on many layers of clothing” — to quote pastor kong — does not give us an excuse to be flippant with our chosen mode of physical expression.
Terence Lee on September 24th, 2009 2:22 pm

Also, I think one of the questions we need to deal with in the discussion is this: Is it wrong to portray sexuality in the media?

The answer is, it depends on the context. As I’ve mentioned earlier, sex and violence is okay as long as the consequences of them are also portrayed.

Is it so in ChinaWine? It is arguably so, especially in the last scene where the ‘boyfriend’ was found to be cheating. However, I don’t think viewers will catch this message due to its length and the mindset of the viewer who watch such videos. The message can only be teased out after some thinking, which most viewers won’t be bothered with.

Therefore, I would argue that whatever message ChinaWine tries to portray is lost in the video. The fact that many people take issue with the video’s sexuality, shows that something is lost in translation. To me, the music video has not communicated its message well, thus losing its impact.

I take issue with the video’s sexual portrayal not because it is there, but because it has failed to communicate its message properly.
Terence Lee on September 24th, 2009 2:38 pm

In any case, let me speak out about something else.

I think some of you take issue with me because you are thinking: How can a church member disapprove of Sun so openly?

Well let me throw the question back at you: Then why open up a comments section?

Note the apparent contradiction: Pastor Kong sets up the blog to communicate with church members. Yet at the same time he preaches on loyalty, saying that we should like what he likes. The impression I have is that disagreements should be kept within the family.

If that is the intention, why set up this blog for discussion? Why have a comments section, which will definitely surface up some disagreements? If Pastor Kong himself has said during his sermon that he loves to raise a discussion, then shouldn’t we use the blog as a chance to openly disagree?

So in this sense, we can no longer “disagree internally”, can we? It seems that many commenters here don’t really understand the purpose of a comments section in a blog. They use it as an opportunity to praise Kong and Sun, which of course is not wrong. But if all they do is praise and not discuss issues and try to raise counter-points against the church’s position, then what’s the point of doing this then? Might as well not have feedback.

So what is it? Are we encouraged to disagree anot? I’ve even received comments that my questioning is treading on “dangerous ground”. That to me is utter rubbish. Why not see it as “critical thinking” and “thinking aloud.”

If CHC is really serious about raising the creativity level of its members, then it should be prepared to face members who will disagree on many issues, who will question the status quo and normative thinking. I wonder if the staff of the church are really prepared for that.
Terence Lee on September 24th, 2009 2:39 pm

“I think some of you take issue with me because you are thinking: How can a church member disapprove of Sun so openly?”

I amend this statement: “How can a church member disapprove of China Wine so openly?”
BB on September 24th, 2009 2:44 pm

To discomfort

You mentioned:
“And we wonder why there are 1200 teen abortions per year in Singapore when we are bombarded by such images everyday, and then made to think it is harmless and its critics are Pharisees”

I am appalled that u have such a low view of your teenagers and that the teens around u are so shallow. Obviously, u must stay in an Amish community, where everything seems to be sanitized!
I do not think that teens are so “sexed up” that they will engage in free sex due to a 3 min video. Nor will they go out make “Indecent Proposals” due to a 2hr movie.

Shouldn’t u do what u say- and educate your youth a bit more?
The truth is that though we stay in such a world, the majority of people can made choices to insulate themselves against such choices.

Abortions and pre-marital sex also occurs due to a host of other factors like lack of parental guidance or love in the family. So stop taking such a myopic view of the matter! Everyone still has the gift of free choice and one should be responsible for their own choices.

And you are being a Pharisee and Judgmental when u condemn people! So stop trying to justify your self righteousness!
NOT AGREED on September 24th, 2009 2:45 pm

Kong, I respect what charity work your wife is doing, but cannot agree with the method she used in the view of Bible.

1) China Wine arose sexual desires of men
When I first time watch China Wine on Youtube, I saw Sun dressed in a very sexual way. I believe that most men who watched it was sexually aroused. This may make her an object of mastubation. The Bible is clear that the body of a wife is reserved to her husband only.

The Bible says, “whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things” (Php 4:8). China Wine clearly does not fall into this criteria.

2) God does not need money made by performance which arose sexual desires
Our God is a rich God. I believe even if Sun did not take this video, she can still raise money for God.

3) Please respect your wife
“the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you” [Kong Hee]
Why you quote this verse here? Are you treating your wife as prostitutes or tax collectors?
JNS on September 24th, 2009 2:56 pm

Not Agreed, I have no doubts at all that Kong respects and loves his wife Sun totally, and supporting her in her career. I believe the quote he is referring to are likened to the seemingly worldly pple in her field. There is no question abt Kong’s respect for Sun, at all.
JNS on September 24th, 2009 3:06 pm

p.s. on whether the video aroused sexual desires of men, it’s up to the audience. I’ve no issue with my husband and family watching this MV, it’s a hollywood MV. Titus1:15 To the pure, all things are pure.
Alain on September 24th, 2009 3:07 pm

Tsukuyomi………………………..,

I’m speaking just for myself!

I’m just a simple person, so after i read ur comment.
I become wondering, thinking, & guessing in my mind a lot of things.

How holy is ur life in ur own sight?
How big is the contribution that u gave to all the people around u?
How success r u?
How many people that u can influence?
R u a youth or old people?
R u married? Hope u’ll find a husband that will love & protect u, like Pastor Kong to His family.

So, i also start imaginating a few things :

Did u wearing ur pajama when u go to swimming pool & swimming with it? Oh… or u took it off after u are inside the pool? so people can’t see ur swimming dress?

Or did u wearing ur working dress when u want to sunbath at the beach? Oh…. maybe, just maybe, u bring ur special tent that get a whole in the roof. so u can sunbathing without people seeing ur bikini?

Or did u ever go to gym? What did u wear? Did u close ur eyes during the gym session? I’m pretty sure people wearing sexy clothes now at the gym, they make a move&sweating that u said can make u lust?

Did u ever go & watch a movies? or hang out at weekend?
I’m super curious what’s ur dress code at that time?

Did ur friends or ur family ever gave you a branded present?
If they gave u LV, did u throw it away?

For a simple person like me, ur life is so funny & artificial! :)

Oh ya, one last most important question!!
R u living on earth???

Because i love u, for the bible told me so, i have a suggestion for u at Matthew 5:29. Maybe it can save u :)
Fun on September 24th, 2009 3:24 pm

Dear Sun

even if the rest of the world is against (worst case scenario) what you are doing do know that you have changed my world in a significant way. Your songs and your actions have encouraged and inspired me in ways that words cannot be expressed.

I may have never see you in real life but I just want to say thank you. :)

Greatness is never without controversies.

regards.
Omega boy on September 24th, 2009 3:26 pm

To Not Agreed:
1) If u treat China Wine like a playboy magazine – then a lot of things can be sexual to u as well! How about an inflatable doll or a little girl’s Barbie? To some, it is just a toy, to others such as yourself- an object of masturbation.

Titus 1:15-16
15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
NKJV

2) The issue here is not about money. It is about using a cultural pillar to communicate to the masses. In the 1920s, preachers used to preach against television and Radio. They called it the devil’s box and prohibited members from watching and listening to it. Today, it is the best thing since slice bread!

If we can adopt the same openness to social networking sites like twitter and blogs, I am sure we can do the same to pop culture.

3) Stop being judgmental and calling Sun names! He is saying that we should not be judgmental and being overly judgmental! So wake up your idea can! Ps Kong loves his wife more than anything else in the world.

So wake up your idea can!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on September 24th, 2009 3:42 pm

Kong Hee, what’s your intention of writing this article? Using Bible to defend for your wife’s career choice? Really confused!

I know that one of the SEXUALLY DRESSED FEMALE SONG LEADER IN CHC received an email from a member of your church mentioned to her his struggle of taking her as an object of mastubation. She told you, and one weekly after this you posted an article “What’s up with mastubation” in this blog, mentioning that several kinds of mastubation IS ok.What’s your intention of writing these articles?

I know these things because I know her. For members of CHC please ask that SEXUALLY DRESSED SONG LEADER in your church whether this is correct. Please ask your pastor, WHAT’S HIS INTENTION OF WRITING THESE TWO ARTICLES? Are you using sexually dressed song leaders and pastor’s wife to attract more men to church? I don’t believe that Jesus like what you have done!
EL on September 24th, 2009 3:47 pm

Innocence ain’t true innocence until it is TESTED. Yes, some may fail and be “stumbled” by the ruckus (pun intended) caused by Sun, but indeed to the pure ALL THINGS are pure.

If you get frequent headaches, are you going to rely on panadol everytime? Don’t you think re-evaluating your lifestyle (maybe you’re too stressed up) and readjusting your lifestyle is the way to go instead of contantly relying on pills? Likewise, if you’re naive to all the sex and violence of this world, should the cure be just “stop my kid from watching it!” or accept the fact that that is really a short term cure, there’s a long term cure which u shld consider & that is knowing how to speak and educate your child to have the inner strength to not be so naive and falter everytime they see something “dirty”?

Pastor advocates true education, ie. making of people with great inner substance. Not conformity and promote a sanctified culture. That inevitably requires a learning process meaning sometimes some people will fail and falter but the end result is something we won’t ever regret.

We are here to change the world with the word of God. Not helping it maintain status quo.
EL on September 24th, 2009 3:52 pm

My comment is meant for those people who disagree with Sun’s works. Just for clarification purposes.

To Pastor Kong, thank you for sharing this it is so well-written and I couldn’t agree more with you!
EL on September 24th, 2009 4:02 pm

To Not Agreed, on your point number 3 on:

3) Please respect your wife
“the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you” [Kong Hee]
Why you quote this verse here? Are you treating your wife as prostitutes or tax collectors?

You have misread this. Pastor means that some of us who think of ourselves as being defenders of goodness and holiness might think that they will enter God’s kingdom first, but when actually the prostitutes will be first in queue. And the Bible has prepared us by saying in that verse, don’t be surprised if that happens. For the first will be last, and the last first.
Discomfort on September 24th, 2009 4:03 pm

EL
Yes, I agree with you.

Education of our young and youth starts from home.

Parents must be more involved. You cannot even trust a church to take care of the core values.

And it saddens me that this video of Sun (4 girls touching her body) is promoted by a church and supported by none other than the pastor.

I am sure this event will pass and God will lead us to the right path.

Maybe there is a higher plan of taming the satanic tiger by riding the Geisha girl. – like how MM Lee did it.

Pastor and Sun, I wish you well.
JNS on September 24th, 2009 4:16 pm

“Shut Up Please!” There is no need to get so upset. It’s no one’s fault that this person took the lady as an object of fantasy. Being fashionable is a personal style and whether one can carry it anot. The guy could already have a long history of such and who can blame it on the lady? Gotta be objective…
To - SHUT UP PLEASE! on September 24th, 2009 4:18 pm

My goodness… I’m trying to figure out are you living in a little bubble?

Hasn’t masturbation existed for ages? Isn’t this an issue with teens and adults? Don’t magazines (both secular and Christian) cover this topic?

It is not a 2009 problem. and I certainly do not think Ps. Kong wrote it after this incident you claimed happened.

On this note, if it were true, you’ve definitely betrayed whatever confidence and trust that your friend has told you. I’m appalled at the words you use, the punctuation, the capital letters, especially more so when you claim, “I know these things because I know her”. With friends like you, no one needs enemies. Really.

In any case, even if Ps. Kong wrote it out of a true situation, is it wrong? For every columnist, don’t they write out of events that are happening around them? For every blogger, isn’t that what blogs are all about?

Pray tell us, are you expecting articles that are totally unrelated to what’s happening to Pastor, what’s happening to the church, what’s happening to his beliefs? Hmm… so would you like some articles on The Argument for Rearing Guppies? Or what about Flossing Your Teeth?

So what is a writer’s intent when he writes an article? To express his thoughts and views. Isn’t that obvious? Perhaps a columnist does it cos he’s paid. But still, isn’t it also to express his thoughts?

So if Ps Kong writes that Flossing your teeth is good but not necessary after every meal, are you going to get upset because some friend of yours received an email that pointed out she had a piece of veg in her teeth while singing?

I think for your name sake, please do likewise.
Chuilaam on September 24th, 2009 4:19 pm

Hi Pastor and Sun,

I really admire the both of you. You guys are REAL and that’s what we need. You guys are my inspiration! :)

Love.
EL on September 24th, 2009 4:25 pm

Hi Discomfort, let your yes be a yes and no be no. Mt 5:37. Saying that you agree with what I have written when you actually don’t is not that scriptural afterall.

If you think the video is promoted by the church just because Sun is pastor’s wife, it is like saying that the Chinese people are crafty just because of their race. Sociologically speaking that is the furthest from the truth. While it’s true many church members support Sun’s works including her US music (which unfortunately have brought you discomfort), we support it because of Gen 1:28, the book of Daniel, and Esther, & so many other scriptural verses showing us the revelation of the cultural mandate.

Sun is not the first committed Christian we can find in Hollywood. There’s Denzel Washington, Miley Cyrus, Mary J. Blige, and many more that I may not know of. To them, they have their quiet convictions for what they r doing for God. To you it may not seem so. But how would you know they are not winning the lost more effectively than you are? While we are discussing and debating here, they have probably helped more people than we have and it wouldn’t have been possible without their established fame and position in the industry.

At the end of the day, we are entitled to our own thinking. But what God is looking for is the person who is wholly obedient towards Him. Let His thoughts be our thoughts, not “let us think what is His thoughts be our thoughts”. God bless.
Adriana on September 24th, 2009 5:10 pm

to “Shut up Please”

Which song leader is it that dressed up sexually?

Most of them wear cool clothing, yes. But not sexually revealing. There are web recording of the services available online

Please speak based on facts, not your emotion and biases
Alain on September 24th, 2009 5:23 pm

happy???????

R u really happy???????
Looking the way u said ur word, i have a huge doubt about it.
Ur word is so uneducated, u almost convinced me that ur education ended when u r 10years old.
U speak so childish, rude, full of bad intention.
Is there any human respect u?
U reap what u sow!!!
BB on September 24th, 2009 5:28 pm

To Shut Up Please

Excuse me – are you in Pastor Kong Hee’s Blog?

If it is not alright for him to talk about his wife, then who should he talk about?

If u have been reading his article about masturbation, u will understand that the Bible is inconclusive about it.

I do not know whether he crafted the whole sermon in a day to address your friend’s issue but he is a pastor who is brave enough to talk about this issue and to offer a biblical viewpoint about the topic.

What issues have u been brave enough to address publicly?

You say that we use women to attract people to church? Isn’t that a far fetched accusation?!?

Are you saying that, if someone is too pretty, we cannot allow them to be a Christian!!!

So, in today’s society – u can also accuse us of having too many good looking guys, as we are using them to attract men to church!

Don’t be ridiculous!

It is not a crime to be good looking. If your friend has a problem with masturbation (And this is addressed in the Masturbation blog post) – then he should seek help.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on September 24th, 2009 5:30 pm

Kong Hee, looked at how the members in your church attacked me? They are actually attacking you! Using the word of Nathan, “You are the man” that your members attacked! (2 Sam 12:7)

I have done to you just what you have done to Pastor Joseph. As you didn’t mention his name in your article “Do we need the Ten Commandments”, I didn’t mention that worship leader in my response. You openly criticized him as “cheap grace peacher” and “ridiculous” in a sermon you preached in Sweden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdOFW5oikvA

Why do you dare not talk to him directly if you think his teaching is not Biblical? When your article “What’s up with mastubation” was criticized as “cheap grace teaching”, it made me feel that you mentioned his name on your next article “Do we need the Ten Commandments” just want to shift the blame of “cheap grace” to another pastor. When you attacked him as “cheap grace peacher” and “ridiculous” in that sermon above, neither he nor NCC did anything to defend for themselves. But see what you did… Is that the reason you mentioned his name in that article is blame shifting? I believe every reader now knows which pastor is more matured.

Kong Hee, please ask your heart, are you envy with the growth of NCC? Did you afraid that one day people like Pastor Joseph more than you sooner or later?

I am not a person that like to criticize, but just want to let you feel the same pain that Pastor Joseph felt when you attacked him. I felt very sorry for that song leader and I loved her. So Kong, if you are a “real man” as you preached, please apologize openly to pastor Joseph. I wait for your apology to him. After that I will apologize openly to you and that worship leader for what I have done. Just felt how unfair you have treated Pastor Joseph!

So member of CHC, please remember that every word you write to attack me is to be attacked to your senior pastor as well!
Melvin on September 24th, 2009 5:42 pm

Hi ‘Shut Up Please’

It comes as a surprise that you will try to seize such an opportunity for an attack and dragging in your church as well.

I think you may need psychological help, because quite obviously what we speak to you is not what we are speaking to our Pastor. It is absolutely ridiculous, or in Singlish – “no link”.

Your accusations are baseless and there’s not much point refuting you, since they’re probably imaginations from a nightmare.
Alain on September 24th, 2009 5:48 pm

preman marsino

1st, in Indonesia word, preman means a bad guy that every good people hate. They like to push people doing what they want. Don’t like seeing people happy, always suck money from them.

U see, the way people thinking usually connected with their past.
this sentences of urs :
Given your way of justification Sun may elevate her acts later to something else. I won’t be surprised to see her appearing in porno films.

Maybe u have a bad past among ur relatives or ur family, i can’t blame u at all.

But, please… if u have a brain…
Don’t be rude to other people, i’m sure u know how to talk in a gentle way.

Thanks
JNS on September 24th, 2009 5:54 pm

We Love You Ps Kong. Thanks for being our Inspiration! :)
Melvin on September 24th, 2009 5:55 pm

Hi Shut Up Please,

While it is understandable that you feel hurt when you perceived that someone you love and respect is being mistreated, but your actions are not objective and you have quoted 2Sa 12:7 totally out of context.

You’ve made baseless presumptions, in a public display of vengeance.

Its a shame that you quoted the name of your pastor and your church along.
Starfish on September 24th, 2009 6:21 pm

All these arguing to and fro, coupled with rude, snide & sometimes sarcastic remarks is yet another reflection as to why the church of God is so divided… Has anyone paused to think that its not about Pastor Kong, CHC, NCC, Pastor Joseph or whoever… it is about our Lord Jesus Christ… always has been and always will be… Is our Lord happy with all these?
Alain on September 24th, 2009 6:50 pm

To : SHUT UP PLEASE!

1. U speak so vocal.
2. U hide ur ID
3. U have super bad intention
—————————————– +
Chicken / Coward

Who r u? A defender of pastor Joseph? A hater of Pastor Kong Hee?
I’m not a CHC member, but the way u speak is over man.

I”m sure u just a nobody from a small church that hard to grow that trying to make Pastor Kong & Pastor Joseph fighting each other. Then maybe u hope ur church can grow a bit?

U said about SEXUALLY DRESSED FEMALE SONG LEADER IN CHC , & u said u know her. Why u r trying blame her taste of outfit?

R u also tempted by her, or maybe u did the same thing that boy did? Come on, I’m also a man, that’s definitely not her fault.

This is ur word : After that I will apologize openly to you and that worship leader for what I have done.

Who need that kind of apologize? From u????
Don’t u ever know what is the meaning of apologize?
U have to do it because u realize that u r wrong, not because Pastor Kong apologize first.

Where u learn ur English?

The way u act make u worse than what u have accused to pastor Kong.
And don’t ever thing that someone will praise u for that “ridiculous” action!
U just turn ur own self become a bad clown.

Oh, better don’t reveal ur self, people can get Merlion.
TKH on September 24th, 2009 7:14 pm

To Shut Up Please,

I supposed you are not a believer. If that is the case, I can understand the tone of your language and the biased accusations you have made in your comments.

If you are a believer, I pray God have mercy on your soul …

My gut feel is that you have not known the Lord, else why is there so much anger, bitterness, revengeful heart … etc.

Will keep you in my prayers that you will come to know the love of God …

TKH
salt and light on September 24th, 2009 7:18 pm

LYL on September 24th, 2009 9:18 am – thanks for trying to clarify but you have put words into my mouth…

Pls read my comments again. I did not say anything abt Sun’s faith or that she lives a sinful lifestyle. I am commenting on Kong Hee’s attempt to equate Sun’s experience with Jesus while He was on earth. Lest we forget , Jesus is the Son of God. He came among us but He was not like us. He suffered for us but He was perfect and blameless. So no human even comes close to Jesus. Daniel was uncompromising , even with a simple issue of food and drink. I can only surmise that he feared and/or loved his God enough to not follow the ways of the world , even the way of his earthly king to risk death/being placed in the lion’s den. Did he need a “cultural mandate” to eat and drink as they did to reach the Egyptians ie get into their “marketplace”?

As I said, Sun is in show business and good for her that she’s doing well in her career choice – it’s her life and the rest of us should just shut up. No one should call her “hooker” or “whore” as Kong Hee mentioned in this blog and I understand his unhappiness when other pastors use these derogatory words on his wife. My concern here is that in his attempt to justify Sun’s career move, the Pastor is equating her to Jesus and Daniel , Proverbs to the Simpsons, Job to Forrest Gump (their sufferings are miles apart) , and that anyone who disagrees with her career choice are pharisees, worse than tax collectors and prostitutes. Also to have a heading titled wholesome shallowness, is the Pastor implying that we have to be more like the world to reach the world? That if we stay apart from the world although we are in it, we are living a sanitised life and therefore wrong/shallow? Or am I just dense and he is indeed explicitly saying so? One of the guest speakers in my church. a lecturer from a theological college advised us not to take everything uttered from the pulpit as gospel truth, not even his words as a theology lecturer (what irony)- but that we had to read the word ourselves and pray for wisdom and discernment from God. And the pastor of my church has said the same. That’s why I’m still attending that church, cos we look to God’s word, not to personalities …..LYL says he/she cannot agree to disagree. That what Sun is doing is unquestionably right. I have no issue with what Sun does. It’s her life, her career choice, her music video. If Sun has a teenage daughter and feels fine for her daughter to dress/ dance that way , fine with me. If she can convince her daughter that “acting” as a raunchy dancer is different from dancing raunchily in real life, that’s fine as well – or if she is proud of her daughter’s sexy dance moves and encourages her to use her talent for God’s glory – good for them ! My issue is that a Pastor should not use portions of scripture to defend his wife’s career choice. So please LYL and other supporters of Kong Hee and Sun, I admire your love and support for your pastor and his wife. But don’t put words into others’ mouths when they disagree and don’t take disagreements so personally and start being nasty – as evidenced by some commentors like BB and Alain on September 24th, 2009.

This is a comments section meaning your pastor is big enough to accept dissenting views. Like I read elsewhere on his blog, let’s agree on the big things – ie Christ’s redemption , God’s mercy and grace and disagree on the small things ie cultural mandate etc…For me , if you believe that what you do glorifies God , all power to you ! My comments are that Sun cannot be equated to Jesus or Daniel and that I don’t buy this cultural mandate thing as a reason to be more like the world / less shallow/ less wholesome. I hold to scripture that says we are in the world but we should not be of the world, that we are called to be salt and light, and not to be conformed to the world. So let’s agree to disagree on the small things as your pastor has mentioned elsewhere. Be mindful that non christians read this blog too and we all put our faith to shame if we cannot disagree in a civilised manner.

blessings and peace to all !
Van F on September 24th, 2009 7:31 pm

hi “shut up please”
perhaps you have a point in highlighting (excessively) what you are trying to share.. well, to be honest i disagree with what you say. first of all, i’m in CHC and well, yeah the worship leader all wear nice and funky clothes but what’s wrong from being fashionable??

to tell you you the truth i was from other church before i came to chc. and really what do you think will make me want to stay in that chuch (CHC) if i dont think and accept what is being taught there?? well, maybe your friend or whoever it is may be sexually aroused by the worship leader. but to tell the truth, nobody wear clothes that are too open or sexually arousing. you can see that from all the youtube videos available right?

and you say you know the WL, but do you know her well enough that you dicided to approach her directly to tell her that you are not so happy with her dressing sense? c’mon man. you got to let people express themselves. well, to share wif u, the female WL that i see usually wear some small jacket or cardigan above their dresses or tops, so i dont see it as any offense ok?

i think you are too rude, whatever your reason is. i think it’s important that you realise that if you are a christian, you won’t be attacking any specific WL , or pastor, or the church member. isn’t it sad that christians are challenging fellow christian??

and for the above posts from other chc members, i think it is just true that they would come to the aid of their senior pastor right? and of course i agree with those blogger that you have been criticising inapropiately.

you say you will apologise after ps kong apologise to the other pastor. and you say that you are sorry for the WL, i tell you, you are not sorry for what you do.

i’m not judging you bro. in fact, i want you to realise that humans ain’t perfect, and ultimately despite a very good leader ps kong is, he’ll have some flaw. and same goes to you “shut up please” , in fact, if you are not a leader or a teacher, you shouldn’t be criticising.. cos ultimately, you’ll need to still depend on leaders to feed your spiritual need right? unless u are saying that you’re having your own church??

a question to consider, what do you feel when you read my post?
God bless u, bro. i wish i could cool down your anger, don’t let yourself consumed by your anger ok? :)
TKH on September 24th, 2009 7:32 pm

Dear All,

Just a word of caution …

I know we live in an internet world, where sometimes we feel that we can say what we want and not be responsible for it … while it may be true in the natural, we must remember the words of Christ, “But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment” (Matt 12:36)

So for the sake of your own soul, please exercise caution …

As for Sun’s work in Hollywood, for those of you who can’t agree for whatever reasons, I think it is fair as each of us are entitled to our opinions. But when starting accusing others (esp. without any valid grouds), we join the devil’s camp by being an accusation of the brethren (Rev 12:10).

Also Paul gave us a very good advice in Rom 14:4 “Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.” Let’s remember that there is only one Judge ultimately, and it is wise therefore not to pass our personal judgments so quickly…

Let a tree be known by its fruits. (Matt 12:33)

I think comments or concerns are definitely welcome, but in your comments are “out-to-kill”, you might reap what you sow…

God bless!

TKH
ST on September 24th, 2009 8:31 pm

Hi.
I agree that we should learn to separate fiction from fact. What is portrayed in the mv is just a fictitious character and I don’t think it is wise for us to judge who Sun is just because of that.

By being an entertainer, I think Sun has done very well in being relatable to the public. I believe not many people would be drawn to what an entertainer is doing if he/she is not relatable to the public. Moreover, as christians, we should not be just “enclosed within the four walls of our church” and just be some h0ly-moly living in our own world. We are living in a real world after all. Only by being relatable, will then only allow us to reach out to people.

I think that when the public sees what Sun is doing, and is drawn towards her professionalism in her career, they will eventually want to know more about her. Similarly for young teens who are constantly exposed to the media. When they start to like Sun’s songs and mvs, they will want to learn about Sun’s background, and this ight draw them into knowing God?
Isn’t that a wonderful thing?

Whether you like what Sun is doing or not, we should all look at things from an objective point of view.

and that’s my take on it:)
Teresa on September 24th, 2009 8:35 pm

All in all it is just a personal choice that Sun has made. However, because Pastor Kong has used biblical quotes to justify his wife’s choice, I think that’s when the controversy begins.

What is the worst sin that can be committed against Our Lord?

A: A strong case could be made that the worst sin is religious hypoc-risy—pretending that God loves all the things that I already like to do (usually very publicly) and that God despises all the people whom I despise.

Jesus comes down very hard on this sin several times, especially in the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector in the Temple (Luke 18:9-14).

Other sins may do greater obvious damage (murder or adultery, for example), but religious hypocrisy suggests that God encourages immoral behavior, which is not true!

You asked about what we can do to avoid any sin. Simply put: Open our hearts to God’s grace and be willing to take the risks that grace presents.

If Pastor Kong truly stands up for Jesus, rem what he truly teaches that is passed down through his disciples and not how one freely interprets by claiming he has the power of the Holy Spirit who speaks through him.

All said there is no personal attack on anyone, just to share what our faith should be about. God bless all.
Teresa on September 24th, 2009 8:45 pm

To have a blog to share ideas openly is a good platform for all to be challenged. Christians all over the world are constantly challenged by God to obey his commandments and pick up their cross to follow Christ.

If it’s purely an entertainer’s job to appeal to the masses, I think it can be more tasteful.

Great singers like Celine Dion or Andre Bocelli, Josh Groban, Sarah Brightman do not need to resort to such ways to appeal to the masses.

Corrine May who was raised in Singapore is talented too and her conviction in leading a Christ centred life is reflected to how the lyrics are penned and how it is delivered to the masses. It is critical as MTV which showcase such lewd settings will no doubt evoke some sort of lustful intention or reaction from some viewers. If we can minimize such scenarios, why not?

God’s way of appealing to the mass is through our daily actions and it speaks a lot of the person if he/she succumbs to what the world thinks. Like Jesus is being persecuted in our world cos he does not act according to what the world believes in, so we as Christians should uphold strong values that will change the world instead of just blindly agreeing with the pop culture.

Moreover, just akin the case of Robin Hood who steals for the poor. The act of stealing is evil and there should not be a reason to justify an evil act with a good intention. Being good should be pure and so the truth speaks for itself.

However striving to be holy does not imply shunning away from the unchurched or acting all righteous and judging others. We can never judge but only advise our brothers and sisters to rethink about how lives should be led.

I hope this entry provides some fruit for thought. God bless all.
Michelle on September 24th, 2009 9:20 pm

Hi Pastor!

I’m blessed by this blog entry of yours. Love how you ended the blog post. *thumbs up*

Also, I’m really proud of what Sun is doing in the entertainment industry – an awesome example of the cultural mandate.

Thanks and God bless! (:
SHUT UP PLEASE! on September 24th, 2009 10:35 pm

I want to response on all the comments on my response:

1) For those who claimed that I always find ways to attack Kong Hee:
Isn’t Kong Hee does the same to Pastor Joseph? In the sermon I quoted above, Kong Hee said that “He has the tape to prove the ridiculous teaching of that pastor”.

2) For those who claimed that I am rude to that WL
I considered her as friend and respect her privacy and thus did not disclose her name. Moreover according to the Torah “eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” (Ex 21:24), I will not do a more serious harm to Kong then the extent that he hurt Pastor Joseph. Since Kong did not mentioned his name in the sermon and the blog, I don’t disclose the name of that WL.

3) For those who have further comments to me
Kong Hee’s article “Racial & Religious Harmony” mentioned that “Tolarence” is the core value of CHC, but I really can’t see he practice what he preached. You see, Kong Hee is quick to judge Pastor Joseph, and even criticize him at his back in Sweden! What a “real man” that he preached! What “tolerance” he preached has condemned himself as being intolerance! In view of this, I don’t think Kong Hee has yet understand the Grace of Christ that Pastor Joseph preached!
Perman Marsino on September 24th, 2009 11:02 pm

Putting sexual flavors in a music video is a way to compensate the lack of talent in an artist. Madonna and Britney we all know are not good singers so they need to create an spectacle of flesh glazed with lustful suggestiveness video. Meanwhile Celine Dion need not to, neither Charlotte Church or Susan Boyle or Lea alonga. They did what they do best and the whole world listens to these pure talent. They have impacted the world without resorting to desperate shedding of skin. I am sad for Sun. Is that how desperate she can be to penetrate the marketplace like the way Daniel would? Oh please let us stop this abomination of comparing Sun to Daniel. Daniel never voluntarily did it. He was forcibly exiled. And even then none of Daniel’s acts stirs sexual appetites. Daniel even though dressed and named like the country he was in, still maintained his distinction e.g. in his diet and prayer life.
It is good that SUn is into helping the poor and build orphanges. But to use that to justify a sexual popstardom is just lame. The end doesn’t justify the means.
Let’s put this video to acid test: Can this video be played in your living room with all the family and kids present? Then say to your daughter I want you to be like Sun? Can we play this video China wine to the massive crowd of City Harvest and with all pride challenging the congregation. “This is the way to penetrate the marketful, let’s all be like Sun? Can you with all honesty play this video in front of pastor’s conference and make this a case study on how to penetrate the marketplace? To any parents reading this will you be proud if it was your daughter doing in place of Sun doing the China Wine? Give us a break Ptr Khong. Stop using biblical models in justifying sexually flavored acts like Sun’s China Wine.
YEs God is not against pop culture as Ptr Khong said. But sure we all know God hates worldliness.
Perman Marsino on September 24th, 2009 11:10 pm

And oh before I forget…what if it`s Joseph Prince`s wife doing the CHina Wine video, would the tolerant Pastor Khong be there to defen her or hmm I`m afraid… hail and brimstome…behold the judgment day!
Joel lzx on September 24th, 2009 11:22 pm

Hi Pastor and Sun,

I really admire the both of you. Both of you are my role models in my life. Continue this great work. I am in for you guys!! All the way SUN!

God Bless!
JT on September 24th, 2009 11:49 pm

Thank you Pastor Kong for addressing this touchy issue! Am really blessed by it to. Even though you know it will create so much tension, yet you still blogged about it. (: You’re my hero!

I wonder when will this end? Ain’t you guys tired of judging, condemning and throwing verses to prove what you feel? Shall wait until the judgement day and all these debate will cease. And the good and faithful servant will be exalted! Amen. Just why can’t it stop, to be amicable instead of nit-picking and throwing stones at one another.. there’s no point justifying whatsoever. Dissipate~!

Minding our own’s business is the best policy. Haha. (: Peace please.
LLWT on September 24th, 2009 11:53 pm

I just see this article as a good hubby defending his wife at all cost even at the expense of twisting God’s Word for own benefit.

I won’t bother to comment much. But Ps Kong Hee, I just want you to ask yourself and be very honest with yourself. Are you truly walking in love when you don’t consider those weaker brothers who are stumbled by your wife’s unwise behaviour in her secular pop career? You boast about practicising religious tolerance in your article as well as in the recent interview on CNA. But ask yourself how you have treated a fellow pastor. You showed no mercy to him when you criticised and ridiculed his teaching and his church. Now when your own beloved wife suffered the criticism of fellow Christians, you are fast to come back with this long article to justify her unwise behaviour and defend her actions.

If you and CHC are really proud of her and believe Sun is doing the right thing, you shouldn’t be wasting time to defend what God has called you to do. Learn from your fellow pastor that you had attacked vehemently over the years. Not once have I heard him speak against you or your church or even your wife when the rest of the Body of Christ criticised her for her unwise behaviour in her secular pop career. Let God be your defense if you indeed believe that whatever you are doing has been sanctioned by God.
byeo on September 25th, 2009 12:05 am

LLWT … twisting God’s Word for own benefit … could you kindly mention exactly where and which part of the original post this is?
You had also mentioned “Unwise behaviour” … kindly elaborate.

You might want to be specific here with details rather that throwing out adjectives … that tend to confuse me because I don’t hear anything concrete. Awaiting your prompt response.
Evangeline Gabrielle on September 25th, 2009 12:15 am

Hi Pastor,

Really thank for the sharing.

I actually read about this blog entry through facebook but once again, I came here because I heard of an all-out war going on here.

It is always a great thing to share about our opinions and thing like that especially when we talked about amoral issues like culture and entertainment world.

But it turn to be unnice when a war started and as I was reading it, I found that some people misunderstood one another.

Some people doesn’t mean to criticise Sun and what she was doing etc and etc but as they was commenting, others misunderstood and wanting to defend Sun, thinking that others are citicising her. And even though it is out of a good heart and love toward Sun, but somehow, others viewed it in a wrong way.

Isn’t it sad that instead of coming to an understanding, we have gone into a war that shouldn’t take place at the beginning.

Maybe, others are just trying to understand the works of Sun. And maybe, they are just sharing and hoping to gain some understanding, but instead of receiving understanding, they received remarks and judgment.

I really appreciate this article and hope that we can help one another and stand in unity for the work of God.

I am proud of Pastor Kong, Sun and everything that CHC is doing. =D
CC on September 25th, 2009 12:25 am

Dear LLWT:

For your information, being a member in CHC for more than 10 years now, I’ve never heard Pastor Kong criticise any local pastor, nor mention any local church by name. Where did you get your information from?

You sound far too personal, and a tad defensive… What’s your purpose, really?

At the same time, I just want to ask, how many Christians you know of that have been “stumbled” or backslid because of Sun’s videos? And in what ways have you seen her behaviour and judged them as unwise? On the contrary, I know of many who have been touched by her life and songs.

Please don’t presume and assume you know it all.

You don’t even know Pastor Kong nor do you know Sun. If you do, I believe you will be surprised by your own comments here.

This is only my personal point of view.
RLZ on September 25th, 2009 12:45 am

I was a member of CHC.

One of the things I didn’t like about the church is how biased the members of the church can be when it comes to supporting Sun. For a matter of fact, I admire Sun for her missions to build schools and help the needy. But i never enjoyed her music. This has got nothing to do with whether it is appropriate or not for the church, but it’s not my taste.

I came across a scenario before when my ex cell group leader shared about Sun’s music. Told us to support her and even buy her albums. And even suggested buying her album and giving it to your friends to share her music and so that they will come to church. Is this another way of soul-winning to grow the church? If it is, I just don’t feel that it is the right way.

However, what i see in many members is that their support for Sun is more like ‘being forced’ to support. That’s not loving music if they say they love music.
popperschua on September 25th, 2009 12:53 am

I realised, most of the people who criticise are really the “bystanders”. Before you’ve fully looked into everything and before you’ve taken time to understand everything that SUN is doing, you’ve already cast your judgment. You are just a bystander. And it’s no wonder.

“Those who can—do. Those who can’t—criticize.” SUN can, she did. You have your verdict if you’ve been criticizing.

And well, if SUN & Pastor Kong are doing what they know is right in their heart, who are we to judge them? Come on, it’s their lives. They live before God. Why do you exalt yourselves above God?

To SUN & Pastor Kong, I think Eleanor Roosevelt said it best …

“Do what you feel in your heart to be right. You’ll be criticized anyway. “
flint on September 25th, 2009 1:04 am

Dear RLZ:

You make those of us who are members of CHC sound like some robots. We aren’t so stupid and foolish to be “forced” (like you said), you know that? We haven’t left our brains at home when we started attending church. :)

I don’t know why your ex-cgl did that … that was pretty unwise of her. Sorry to hear that. But, you’re over-generalising. It’s like this scenario: One little ant bit you, and naturally, you kill every ant around it because they are together. BUT, reality is: Only one bit you. Back to your subject: Please don’t generalize and assume things?

I just wrote to say that CHC members have got choices like you do. They don’t have to like SUN’s music. But if they do, why do you suppose that it’s because they were forced to? Your thinking is very subjective to your past experience, very biased and flawed. And also, let’s be objective. Which of Sun’s songs do you know? Which have you heard? Ah, no wonder. You just chose not to like her songs. I think she sings better than many others.

Thanks for sharing. Your take-home point: We are not as stupid as you think. We have minds of our own, and NO, we have NEVER ever been manipulated in any way at all, if that’s what you SUPPOSE and ASSUME. :)

And I am just a very normal attending member of CHC.
ST on September 25th, 2009 1:12 am

HI.
I see no mention of pastor kong criticising pastor joseph. Even in the video on youtube, he made no mention of pastor joseph. At least not specifically and in details therefore conclusions made saying that pastor kong is referring to pastor joseph is totally groundless with no solid truth.
I do feel sad that people have been stumbled by sun’s career. However, there is no need for the others to come together to criticise and speak vehemently against supporters of sun and herself. I feel that instead of causing so much ruckus and trying to prove points, people who know others who have been stumbled should help these weaker vessels. Even though you may be no avid supporter, you could still guide these believers into truth with discretion of not harming any other persons in actions or words.
Before anyone should judge and criticise on what pastor kong or sun is doing, should not they themselves reflect on their actions as well? By putting groundless claims on pastor and his wife, isn’t that judging as well?
CKZ on September 25th, 2009 1:16 am

LLWT !

If a man doesn’t even defend his wife, he is not a man at all… For this reason, I salute Ps. Kong’s love for his wife. Not even talking about biblical principle yet…

When Ps. Kong openly makes a stand on the cheap grace doctrine, isn’t he doing what Apostle Paul did, to defend the authencity of the gospel. So that we will not be gullible but be strong in the Lord for the days are evil…

I pray that you will have spiritual UNDERSTANDING and WISDOM in all that you say for God shall be our Ultimate JUDGE. In whatever you say or do, please let the peace of God rule in your heart… Don’t be quick to judge but diligently seek the truth in God… =)
PF on September 25th, 2009 1:34 am

LLWT:

Firstly, I don’t at all think Sun giving it a shot at pop music (and DOING WELL, for your information) is considered ‘unwise’ behavior. You say that people get stumbled, do you personally know of someone like that or are you merely assuming?

Secondly, it seems like to YOUR understanding, the whole purpose of this blog post by Pst Kong is merely for the purpose of justifying and defending Sun and her works. If that’s the case, I really think it is a tad too shallow for you to think so.

To me, it seemed like this is a post with no ulterior motivation, and no form of attack, other than to EXPLAIN, to REFLECT, and let people understand the whole reason why Pst Kong and Sun do the things that they do, and why despite of negative responses, they still chose not to give up. Don’t you think you’re thinking way too much and too deep into things that you end up passing unfair judgments?

It isn’t fair. It really isn’t.
Tong Yan on September 25th, 2009 1:42 am

Hey Pastor, actually to my understanding, this post is not to promote sun or what she does. But instead it is to promote the Cultural Mandate, I have one small incident when I’ve tried to share about the Cultural Mandate to another christian from another church- which is considered traditional.

All I did was to share, however my friend directly make accusation about our church and said some unwise stuff regarding her point of view- which could hurt our r/s. After what she has to said, I stopped all sharing because I felt that it will:

1) Harm the friendship
2) It might go out of control

I know that it is very hard for them to understand what we in CHC is doing with the cultural mandate. I think that with this post, Pastor you are trying to break the mindset of these people and to help them. Because when I found out that my friend does not know about cultural mandate, i wanted to share with her very much. I was excited about it! haha

Because the teachings on Cultural Mandate truly has not only change my mindset, but my life. Many unbelievers really dislike christianity for being irrelevant and backward. And Christians namely those that are more conservative or traditional, think that it is link to teaching cheap grace. However to me, the cultural mandate does not teaches one to sin, it promotes in every way a even better way to live for Jesus.

I do not encourage members to discuss openly about the cultural mandate to other denominations, but I’m glad that Pastor you took it upon yourself to see to it.

More than anything, what you want is to see them live a even more transformed and colorful life with Jesus,no matter what their occupation. I don’t believe that Jesus gave us those wonderful talents for nothing. For example, music , dancing and singing are things what we christians love the best,- why? just because it is what the Lord enjoys too! (If not we will not spend so much time on praising and worshipping God)

Engaging the pop culture, is not only a great thing but it’s a God-thing. If the world can do it, we the children of God deserves to do it way better and shine for Christ.

To those that criticise Pastor:

If you read properly and see clearly, Pastor’s post is focus on Cultural Mandate, not Sun. And clearly, Pastor and Sun they are not afraid to make a difference (or you to criticise them) and to be out there doing what they believe. This is not what everyone can do, they’re trying to proof with their own lives that the Cultural Mandate works!!

“Be in the world but not of the world” that’s what Pastor always teaches us, because he does not teach us to sin even when the world is, but to make a difference. I aspire to be like him and Sun, because I want my life to be a testimony of God’s glory! Praise the Lord =)

Once again, thank you Pastor for the courage to post this entry. I’m sure it’ll make a positive impact, to help future generations understand more. They will see =)

Love,
Tong Yan
Melvin Chen on September 25th, 2009 2:05 am

Hi “Shut Up Please”

It looks like you can quote any scripture you want, for any purpose. You have quoted an eye for an eye, now I quote you what the Lord taught us:

Matthew 5: 38
You have heard that it was said, “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also;

Actually Exodus 21 was referring to the compensations one should make right to an injured person and not about revenge. Jesus was exactly addressing this wrong use of the verse in Matt 5.

Now I wonder who taught you that doctrine of revenge.

On your direct announced attack on Pastor Kong, he has NEVER mentioned about any particular pastor, but he was addressing a doctrine and teaching that he cannot agree with. This has nothing to do with whichever church’s growth or whichever church’s Pastor.

The reason why he does not name anyone is because he cannot agree with a certain doctrine and teaching that deviate from the foundational doctrines of christianity. He is not against a person or a church.

If anyone is guilty and offended, by addressing heresies with truth, what can we say?

Moreover, if what Pastor Kong had addressed was wrong, then he would be the one to be ridiculed.

What Pastor Kong shared was basic christian doctrine and how some people have deviated from the true and common christian doctrines of faith and grace, attempting to resurrect an old heresy that was put down generations ago by the apostles.

If one is not guilty, why should they stand up in revenge? They would have agreed with the very basic doctrines of the bible.

If you are a believer, let us reason, according to truth, according to the bible, not about who is attacking who and about retaliation. I feel embarrassed for you that you named your own church and pastor in this manner.
Reuel Eugene on September 25th, 2009 3:13 am

Hi SHUT UP PLEASE!

Please be careful with your words. In the first place, in my opinion, their fashion sense is at the cutting edge, and not ’sexually dressed’ or whatever you call it. (if there even is such a phrase.) Allegedly claiming that CHC’s songleaders are scantily dressed really reflects alot on what you’re thinking about during their praise and worship sessions.

If that is even the case, wouldn’t chc only be filled with guys? Or would chc even grow to 27,000 member strong in the first place?

Also, if you are really a friend of that WL (which I believe you only know her from the viewing of the screen), then would you comment about her like this? If so, then I wouldn’t like to have a friend like you because I will feel so overly ‘loved’ by you. With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Next, we are not attacking you. We are defending our pastor, as anyone (who loves his family) would defend his own family members. If your family members is being verbally abused, would you also sit back and ‘enjoy’ the show? Certainly not right? Tell me, so far have we attack you in any way?

Also, how has Pastor Kong attack this so and so pastor? Has he mention the pastor’s name? Or did he mention the title of the pastor’s church? What Pastor Kong is trying to bring across to the congregation is we should not swing to different extremes of Legalism and Antinomianism. If you are not familiar with any of the two words, I suggest you do some read up before shaming yourself here.

If that pastor and his congregation has not retorted (not that they should), who are you to retort in their place? Judging from the content and tone you write here, in business law terms, you would be considered a ‘misrepresentation’ of that church.

This isn’t even a case of ‘an eye for an eye’ because Pastor Kong never set himself up to go against pastor j nor did pastor j do so towards Pastor Kong. In the body of Christ (the totality of all churches- including different denominations), there are bound to be some disagreements, but we are still working hard to know and accept each other better. Perhaps this argument is really about you and chc, and not so and so church and chc?

Please do not sow seeds of discord in the 2 churches nor sow seeds of vengeance in your own life. It will do well for your soul.

God bless,
Reuel Eugene.
what is China wine on September 25th, 2009 10:59 am

I am new here.

I have seen Pastor on Youtube talking about 1st space and 2nd space.

I have seen Pastor scrutinising every line from the bible to explain His words.

Has he scrutinsed and analysed the lyrics of China Wine?

Is that the wine of Jesus blood?

Or that of her bodily fluids?

Her China wine video embodies the fruits of the Holy spirit?

I wish her success and hope she returns to Singapore real soon.

REAL SOON.

She is going all the way out to ruin the first space, while trying to conquer the second space. Conquer the world of fame, the other Gods the Bible talks about.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/2182261#utm_campaign=twitter.com&utm_source=2182261&utm_medium=social

No mention of God or the Church in her interview. I gave up after 10 minutes.

Jesus take the wheel. I would be proud of her if she was in that genre like Carrie.

Pastor, please take care of your first space. I want you to succeed for God and keep your Family whole.

My prayers are with you.

Take care.
Philosopher on September 25th, 2009 11:08 am

Dear SHUT UP PLEASE, LLWT & Perman Marsino,

Why are you turning this forum into an attack from one pastor to Pastor Kong?

And doing it on Pastor Kong’s own blog?

You claim to defend Pastor Joseph Prince. I wonder if he is aware or am proud of your actions?

The rest of us are certainly not impressed.

I refer to your comments below:

“But ask yourself how you have treated a fellow pastor. You showed no mercy to him when you criticised and ridiculed his teaching and his church.” (LLWT)

Where did Pst Kong criticize another pastor?

On his blog of the subject of the 10 commandments? No pastor’s name was mentioned.

On his sermon in Sweden? No pastor’s name was mentioned.

Substantiate your criticism please.

“And oh before I forget…what if it`s Joseph Prince`s wife doing the CHina Wine video, would the tolerant Pastor Khong be there to defen her or hmm I`m afraid… hail and brimstome…behold the judgment day!” (Perman Marsino)

I think he might.

Just as Joseph Prince might well defend what Sun is doing.

Do you think not?

Do you think Joseph Prince would launch into despicable personal attacks, as you did Perman Marsino?

I hope not.

Are you trying to instigate division in the Church, Perman Marsino?

“For those who claimed that I always find ways to attack Kong Hee:
Isn’t Kong Hee does the same to Pastor Joseph? In the sermon I quoted above, Kong Hee said that “He has the tape to prove the ridiculous teaching of that pastor”. (SHUT UP PLEASE!)

Has he done as you did, SHUT UP PLEASE?

Where?

He does have the tape to support his claim.

Is that an attack?

Your thinking is flawed & your accusation baseless, SHUT UP PLEASE.

“I have done to you just what you have done to Pastor Joseph….You openly criticized him as “cheap grace peacher” and “ridiculous” in a sermon you preached in Sweden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdOFW5oikvA” (SHUT UP PLEASE!)

Thank you for posting this SHUT UP PLEASE. It reiterates the ridiculousness of ‘cheap grace’ teachings.

I have seen it & in nowhere is Pastor Joseph Prince mentioned.

Are you suggesting that Joseph Prince is an antinomian?

The charge was against ‘cheap grace’ teachings that borders on the ludicrous.

What makes you think it is about you think it is referring to him?

If it were really teachings from Joseph Prince, it does appear there is cause for concern.

However, this is not the platform for debate of Joseph Prince’s teachings. (Perhaps, he has a blog which you can go to)

If not, the rest of you & SHUT UP PLEASE, perhaps you do well to do what your moniker suggests.
RLZ on September 25th, 2009 12:30 pm

To Flint,
if you think what i mentioned was a deliberate thing to do, i guess you’re wrong.

Is it a crime to share ones own experience? Maybe you’ve never faced it before, but i have been in CHC for 7 years, before i left in March 2009.

Since Pst Kong decided to share on this, and it’s open for EVERYONE, opinions can be shared be it positively or negatively.

And from your reply, it’s from a very biased point of view. Doesn’t mean you like the music, you can start ‘preaching’ about how good her singing is. Don’t forget, she is just a singer, she’s not the one playing the other instruments. Her singing may be good, but i won’t go all out and praise her like she’s another goddess…(which MOST of the members in church do that whenever she comes on stage…)

I’m baffled also by how she uses that opportunity to share her story about her past just to win souls and touched the heart of teenagers who have no idea what they’re gonna expect from the church.)

“Which have you heard? Ah, no wonder. You just chose not to like her songs. I think she sings better than many others.” – isn’t this assumption as well?

Like i said, i came to share what i have experienced, and hopefully, i am enlightened by a reasonable and an unbiased point of view from a member of the church. But sad to say, your reply only made it worse and definitely potrayed quite a negative aspect of a typical City Harvest person. Sarcasm.
RLZ on September 25th, 2009 12:35 pm

Last but not least, if you have not seen that video about Pst Kong preaching in Sweden, then you missed out the whole point.

He mentioned, “A pastor in Singapore….” – Be it Pst Joseph Prince, or any other pastors, it doesn’t make a difference. It just reflects on how he is speaking-ill of another pastor when he should show some support. I don’t think Jesus would do that.
VT on September 25th, 2009 12:38 pm

What a great post!
Sun is a great role model to me and I am greatly inspired by her courage.I have read all the comments and i am very saddened by the judgmental attitude of a few.For the Christians out there, let us always remember that we are all a body of Christ/
1 Corinthians12: 25-25
that there should be schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. And if one memeber suffers, all the members suffer with it; all the members REJOICE with it.
Sun has indeed shine for the Lord in the marketplace. Let us cheer her on to do greater works!

Agape,
VT
flint on September 25th, 2009 1:13 pm

Dear RLZ:

Again, you are biased and totally assumptious. Firstly, where have we preached about SUN’s good singing? No where. And even then, if we enjoy her songs and singing, is it wrong for us to praise it? Second of all, you must have been stuck in the ancient of days times. I don’t even remember a time when SUN went on stage, and all in church praise her like a goddess.

Quoting you verbatim,

“Her singing may be good, but i won’t go all out and praise her like she’s another goddess…(which MOST of the members in church do that whenever she comes on stage…)”

When was the last time she went on stage in church? And members did that? I’m beginning to wonder if you are talking about the same person and same church.

I’m sorry if you’ve had a bad experience during your time here, but really, you don’t have to come here specially to write things that don’t make sense at all. Just enjoy being planted in the church you are at now. I wish you well :)

Anyway, And if you have even read through the entire entry SIR, this entry is about the Cultural Mandate message.
TT on September 25th, 2009 2:37 pm

Funny but I was just talking to a friend about this over dinner last night.

I think it’s a matter of culture. (No, I’m not saying this because of the Cultural Mandate.) We have to understand that there’s a difference between what’s typically Asian Culture as compared to that of the West. The divide is wide and few of us are exposed to such contemporary attire in our communities. That’s the only reason I can imagine one can be taken aback by what is seen in China Wine.

But… “different” does not equate to “sin”.

In some cultures in the world, women folk walk around top naked. Does that mean that they’re all sinners? No. Because it’s their culture. But if those same women were to walk along our streets, we’d be frowning upon them and saying that they’re causing our men to be tempted.

Once upon a time, Chinese women never revealed their inner wrists. Only prostitutes hung out of windows in Oriental inner garments (that look a lot like our modern halter necks and spaghetti straps). Today, we go out in sleeveless tops and spaghetti straps. Does that make us sinners? Does that mean we’re deliberately causing our “weaker brethren” to fall? I don’t think so.

Same goes when it comes to the entertainment industry. Art imitates Life. And there ARE people in the world who dress this way and it’s NORMAL. Perhaps not in the society we live in, but like I said, what’s different to us isn’t wrong. It’s just unfamiliar. So why judge and condemn others for being comfortable in their own skin?
uJ on September 25th, 2009 3:19 pm

@TT :
That’s true. Was just talking to my French colleague this afternoon about why 90% of the upcoming French Film Festivals have movies that are rated with labels – “mature content, sexuality, nudity, homosexual references”, “NC-16, M18 and R21s”.

And he said he was stunned to see the labels.. because in France, as long as you are aged 12 and above you can watch all the movies which may include a scene of a naked body. It was no big deal to them.

For me personally, culture is one factor that affects a person’s personal preferences and taste. So guys, chill!

@ to all those who are talking about Pastor Kong vs Pastor Joseph Prince or Cultural Mandate vs Grace Teaching

Personally i don’t think i am in the position to say who’s right or who’s wrong, who’s teaching is good, true or bad.

More importantly i guess is that what ultimately drives us back toward the love and purposes of God.

PS: while names are not mentioned in various articles and sermons, it is very simple and accessible these days to search for the author or the source. Just because a name is not mentioned doesn’t mean no intention or damage was being done. I think it’s time we have to re-evaluate all that we are doing, take a step back, cool-off and reflect. :)
Applauding Sun fo Her Bid to Save the World – Not « anglicanitis: journey of one such patient on September 25th, 2009 3:32 pm

[...] September 25, 2009 in Uncategorized My pastor commented that the perfect way to make some people’s blood boil is to sent them the last note I wrote concerning occlusion, TCM, Barth and the common grace of God. The perfect way to make mine boil is by sending me notes such as this, http://www.konghee.com/www/2009/09/wholesome-shallowness/. [...]
VLF on September 25th, 2009 3:32 pm

Dear RLZ,

“Last but not least, if you have not seen that video about Pst Kong preaching in Sweden, then you missed out the whole point.He mentioned, “A pastor in Singapore….” – Be it Pst Joseph Prince, or any other pastors, it doesn’t make a difference. It just reflects on how he is speaking-ill of another pastor when he should show some support. I don’t think Jesus would do that.” by RLZ

I have seen “that video”.

I think you might have missed the point.

If, for example, a pastor in Singapore claims that he is Jesus reincarnated, would you stay silent & ‘not speak ill’ of it?

What does that imply of you then?

It is the responsibility of a good shepherd to challenge & expose questionable doctrines & fallacious beliefs.

This is what Pastor Kong has done.

No names were mentioned, & rightly so.

As for whether Jesus would have challenged suspicious teachings, even if they are from the highly esteemed religious personalities, I leave it up to you to draw your own conclusions.

Just a thought, would you have so self-righteously & liberally criticized the Speaker of the following text as “speaking ill of another pastor when he should show some support”?

13 “I’ve had it with you! You’re hopeless, you religion scholars, you Pharisees! Frauds! Your lives are roadblocks to God’s kingdom. You refuse to enter, and won’t let anyone else in either.

15 “You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You go halfway around the world to make a convert, but once you get him you make him into a replica of yourselves, double-damned.

16 “You’re hopeless! What arrogant stupidity! You say, ‘If someone makes a promise with his fingers crossed, that’s nothing; but if he swears with his hand on the Bible, that’s serious.’

17 What ignorance! Does the leather on the Bible carry more weight than the skin on your hands?

18 And what about this piece of trivia: ‘If you shake hands on a promise, that’s nothing; but if you raise your hand that God is your witness, that’s serious’?

19 What ridiculous hairsplitting! What difference does it make whether you shake hands or raise hands?

20 A promise is a promise. What difference does it make if you make your promise inside or outside a house of worship? A promise is a promise. God is present, watching and holding you to account regardless.

21 22 23 “You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You keep meticulous account books, tithing on every nickel and dime you get, but on the meat of God’s Law, things like fairness and compassion and commitment – the absolute basics! – you carelessly take it or leave it. Careful bookkeeping is commendable, but the basics are required.

24 Do you have any idea how silly you look, writing a life story that’s wrong from start to finish, nitpicking over commas and semicolons?

25 “You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You burnish the surface of your cups and bowls so they sparkle in the sun, while the insides are maggoty with your greed and gluttony.

26 Stupid Pharisee! Scour the insides, and then the gleaming surface will mean something.

27 “You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You’re like manicured grave plots, grass clipped and the flowers bright, but six feet down it’s all rotting bones and worm-eaten flesh.

28 People look at you and think you’re saints, but beneath the skin you’re total frauds.

29 “You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You build granite tombs for your prophets and marble monuments for your saints.

30 And you say that if you had lived in the days of your ancestors, no blood would have been on your hands.

31 You protest too much! You’re cut from the same cloth as those murderers,

32 and daily add to the death count.

33 “Snakes! Reptilian sneaks! Do you think you can worm your way out of this? Never have to pay the piper? 34 It’s on account of people like you that I send prophets and wise guides and scholars generation after generation – and generation after generation you treat them like dirt, greeting them with lynch mobs, hounding them with abuse.

The Message, Matthew 23:13-34
Kel on September 25th, 2009 3:39 pm

Dear all,
I dun understand why are you guys going great depth to speak against a man of God. If He is not credible, his fruits will not remain. But if he is really a man of God, then i will be so careful with my words.

For the case of SUN, She is really doing what she loves.
Must every christian singer conform in the same manner like the rest that you guys have mentioned? We each have our own freedom of expression.

To the pure all things are pure.

I wonder. If you guys are constantly saying that SUN is dressing in a sexual manner, is it because that is what your mind is filled with or are occupied with.

I agree with TKH, Pls just be careful with our words.
For those who are against or for those who are defending.
Faith, hope and love, (The greatest is love.)

Can we not forget that?

Kel
anglicanitis on September 25th, 2009 4:02 pm

I’m not sure why my comment doesn’t show. I’ve posted my view here: http://anglicanitis.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/applauding-sun-fo-her-bid-to-save-the-world-not/ .
Van F on September 25th, 2009 5:11 pm

dear shut up please,
i really think that further argument is pointless, cool down and cut if off alright?

regards,
Van
Melvin Chen on September 25th, 2009 5:25 pm

Amused at the number of people who try to promote their blogs, denominations and ideals here.
smlee on September 25th, 2009 6:02 pm

There is no need to have comments and i don’t think Kong Hee wrote this to have people praising him.
Cut the argument and there is no need to defend. Getting into argument is falling into the traps of the enemy.
Alain on September 25th, 2009 6:20 pm

Hahaha……

This blog & all the comments is so colourful :D

GBUall
BB on September 25th, 2009 9:10 pm

I like what this commentator TT says

“Once upon a time, Chinese women never revealed their inner wrists. Only prostitutes hung out of windows in Oriental inner garments (that look a lot like our modern halter necks and spaghetti straps). Today, we go out in sleeveless tops and spaghetti straps. Does that make us sinners? Does that mean we’re deliberately causing our “weaker brethren” to fall? I don’t think so.

Same goes when it comes to the entertainment industry. Art imitates Life. And there ARE people in the world who dress this way and it’s NORMAL. Perhaps not in the society we live in, but like I said, what’s different to us isn’t wrong. It’s just unfamiliar. So why judge and condemn others for being comfortable in their own skin?”

I agree that ART is a reflection of society. and in America, they are just more open minded about things.

I guess Asia needs to catch up.

btw – I like Melvin’s comment about the blog advertising!

U guys will do anything to increase traffic!
tough on September 25th, 2009 10:32 pm

RZL – you said
If, for example, a pastor in Singapore claims that he is Jesus reincarnated, would you stay silent & ‘not speak ill’ of it?

It is the responsibility of a good shepherd to challenge & expose questionable doctrines & fallacious beliefs.

This is what Pastor Kong has done.

Cool.

My take – for many Christians, we take it as a fallacy that Sun, in skimpy clothing, grinding her hips against other men, fingered by 4 girls, is taken as prophet Daniel of Today.

Why ? Just because her pastor / husband says so?

Yes, this view has to be challenged. If this was a private blog, or if Pastor said this in the 4 walls of the church, it may have been better recieved.

By making this public – do expect reactions from others..

Yes, she can walk around in ‘gym wear – in any videos – it is her body, her right – her video – her cool hip style.

But to claim in the public domain (altho it is Ps blog) that she is Daniel and Joseph – that is too too much for me.

And while everyone in your church is saying ‘don’t judge her, don’t judge,” we get a voice clip of Pastor throwing stones at another pastor, and collecting 3 tapes of evidence some more – wow – so much for that holier than thou attitude. Said in the ’safety’ of a distant far off country.

What next? another pastor throwing stones back? Is that how we conduct ourselves as Christians?

And now the whole Christian community will be ridiculed again by the non believers that such a person can be a pastor wife – If her old China wine videos get circulated again due to her new album.

I get it from my non believer female friends in office – ‘what – a slut can be a pastor wife?”

Hey – I am not going to try this cultural manade explanation, ok?
ihopeiamwrong on September 25th, 2009 10:55 pm

I am not casting stones at anyone. I am merely presenting God’s code to judge our conduct.

Pastor Kong wrote:

“Again, in absolutes, we must be absolute. But in non-absolutes, we should allow the freedom of personal preferences and give space to the Holy Spirit to lead every Christian individually.”

The Lord is trying to lead us to His perfection by understanding the principles behind each commandment and applying this “moral compass” to every aspect of our lives. What we tend to do with the ten commandments is make 10 legalistic rules (if you see the 10 commandments as 10 absolutes).

For example, He says “You shall not murder.” Do you know the principle means you shall not do anything that causes death, spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically and in every dimension towards those whom God wants to keep alive. (Yet the Lord knows when we can breech the rules, yet it still governed by His other commandments.)

For example. He says “You shall not steal.” When you don’t pray to God, you steal His time. When you don’t love people, you steal their blessings.

Another example, He says “You shall not covet.” When you are having a bad day and you see others having a good time, and you feel you should be just like them, you have coveted their good time. The fact is, you must accept well-being and adversity from the Lord. Both have their purposes.

We might not break the absolutes (legalistic interpretation of the 10 moral codes of God), yet we break the principles of the law, thus what we sees as okay is still breaking the law. Except we are limited in our understanding of the Law. And when we emulate the Biblical Fathers and Mothers we must still subject ourselves to these 10 commandments.

God intended for the law to judge mankind in every decision we make. It covers all our lives. If you understand the Jewish wisdom of comprehending the scriptures, you would not fall into the trap of legalism. Every action is judged in the light of the ten commandments in God’s eyes.

Because we are redeemed in Christ, we have the ability to obey the Law. All of us are weak and fail at times, but its doesn’t equal practising sin. Ultimately perfection is still attainable. We make mistakes in “non-absolutes” when we ignore the “absolutes”.

I hope you examine your lifestyles in the light of these 10 commandments and may the Lord show you the flaws in your liberty. The true works of the Lord is devoid of breaking the Law. May you judge yourselves to see where you stand.
Sunset Soon on September 25th, 2009 11:00 pm

Sun’s talent is pathetically inferior even in comparison among Japanese, Indonesian, MAlaysian and Filipino Divas. Her face is elongated, her voice sounds like a tortured cat. Although she has a sexy body that is not enough. To those who cannot tolerate Sun’s Chian Wine keep your cool. She is already too old to compete in the world market. LEt’s just hope she will be enlightened to stop this delussion of being diva wannabee and go back to her calling. HEr age will catch up with her and will soon vanish like a furt into the thin air.
树大嘲风 on September 25th, 2009 11:53 pm

Thankyou for the Holy soap opera. It could’t possibily be true that Desparate House wives, Dallas and Charms exists together in these exchanges. But really!

- Back Stabbing
- There are Accuser of Brethren
- and Holy smoke!

Really Entertainment industry standard. At certain stage it was becoming Seinfield. Repetative Blabbling

Getting personal deviate the topic of the blog. I felt the main issue is: “Is Pop Culture a possible Church culture?”
Perhaps we can reset this epsiode to discuss this?

Whatever Sun deplict is Pop Culture, Whoever “All opposing views” are also about Pop Culture.

Eleanor Roosevelt: “Do what you feel right…” Maybe sincerely wrong.

Theodore Roosevelt:”Speak softly and carry a big stick..” I think Pastor Kong’s blog is achieving that!

Franklin Roosevelt: “Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds”

The fear and unwillingness to try new things; allowing possible mistakes often rob us from the greatest achievement that God destined for us. Be it Sun, Kong or Prince, they are pioneers of faith that many loved. that’s why 树大嘲风. In the end, it’s not about how right or wrong but how much they love and sacrifices for God.

Only God will judge that their work could stand the test of refiner fire! Personally, I think they will do much better than anyone of us.

Hence, I dare not touch (or comment) God’s anointed. Perhaps “the fear of the Lord” is the begining of wisdom.
Frank Lee on September 26th, 2009 12:11 am

Waa Sunset Soon,

Your comments speak volume of your character.

Tsk tsk.

Can understand why you need to use an anonymous name.

Ashamed of making such rude remarks right?

Why so mean leh? Who provoke you huh?

Sekali reap wat you sow ah.

Shame shame.
PF on September 26th, 2009 12:38 am

To Sunset Soon;

What are you wanting to achieve speaking those stuff about Sun?

Sun’s talent is unquestionable, if not, would she be where she is today? May I let you into a revelation that Sun has done so many amazing things that none other Asian has ever done before? Talk about her talents, have you seen any other Asian breaking into Hollywood, hitting the billboard chart at #1? How about being the first chinese singer to be invited to the Grammy Awards? And the many other achievements, the many chances she got to work with renowned figures, the great amount of humanitarian work she started and made possible….

Who are you to say what is her calling, seriously?

For your information, Sun is loved by thousands and thousands and people all over the world, in US, in Taiwan, in Singapore. If they don’t have a problem, what’s yours?

Perhaps you’re just wanting attention here with all your shallow comments. You’ve got it. A bad one, by the way :)
LYL on September 26th, 2009 1:39 am

To Sunset Soon,
Your defamatory comments about Sun and hurled insults on whatever she is doing reminds me of a verse in the Bible…

Proverbs 29:20 (NLT)
“There is more hope for a fool than for someone who speaks without thinking.”

In total disgust.
GT on September 26th, 2009 3:21 am

Wow, am I blown away by the comments I have read!

- How different ones can go all the way to defend Pastor & Sun.
- By how people can criticize what CHC, Pastor & Sun believe in.

1) People can only defend what they see eye-to-eye with. All those who defended Pastor & Sun surely know how to think and they know what and whom they are defending. The reason why they stand on Pastor’s side is merely because they understand Pastor’s and Sun’s take on this – Sun is an entertainer who is being relevant and seeking to impact lives through what she does. She hopes that by being someone the world can identify with, and by producing POP music, she can impact them for the glory of God. Far better than just sitting aside, doing nothing, hoping one day the world will experience God’s love.
I salute Sun for her courage despite many negative feedbacks. And her supporters, too, understand where she’s coming from.

2) However, as to those nasty comments made with regards to Pastor’s post, is it very fair to Sun and Pastor??

Do you all really think ONE VIDEO can result in “high teenage abortion rates”? Or it can cause many people to stumble and fall? Cause “most men to be sexually aroused”?

If your answer is a yes, there must be something really wrong. Do you think throwing a stone at a statue will make the entire statue crack into pieces? Of course not! Don’t look at Sun’s MV and start pointing fingers at her!
To start with, the MV was not morally unsound in the least way!
And if you’ve problems with Sun doing what she did in the MV, well she’s doing her job. She’s an entertainer, she goes behind the camera, steps into her persona and tries to express it in the most creative way she can. And the MV did impress many people, no? It impressed me for one. The dance moves, the storyline, the settings, the music…

Don’t limit Sun, don’t limit christians. God did not allow a POP culture just so non-christians can penetrate. He did not mean POP music, good dance moves and great showmanship just for non-believers to possess and portray. Even christians can do so, and much better! Even christians like Sun can be such good performers that the world loves them and want to know all about them. The world needs to know christians are not separated and isolated from them. And Sun is brave enough to step onto a platform to show them that.

If you still don’t like Sun being in China wine, fine. But please don’t be critical! Please don’t slam her down. Start seeing where she is coming from. There is a bigger picture to everything. At least her intentions were great!

Like it or not, Pastor Kong and Sun dared to do what others probably did/do not have the courage to do. To engage the POP culture and be in the media industry, to let non-christians identify with them and pray through all of this, non-christians will begin to be more receptive of God and christianity, knowing it’s not just an outright boring and isolated religion.

Pastor and Sun make one of the greatest couples in the world, ever. They stay true to their convictions in God and they dared to make a difference.
QX on September 26th, 2009 3:43 am

Sunset Soon:
Your comment is such a turn-off.

Do not even associate your comments with those from people who disapproves of China wine! While the rest are commenting on their different perspectives on what Sun is doing, you are merely attacking her way too personal! And they are such senseless ramblings! Based on only what you want to say??

Talents; Sun has it! And so many people love them! That’s why she made it this far!
Looks; God made His creation beautiful. And I think she looks great!

So… Please do think before you criticize so irrationally.
iMark on September 26th, 2009 6:25 am

A couple of quick things for now…

I’ve seen questions along the lines of – How has Sun promoted debauchery, etc. in her videos/music?

My question is, how has Sun promoted Jesus and the Gospel in her videos/music?

Mr. Hee said,

In the “China Wine” video, she happens to be acting in one such role. Fiction must be separated from fact.

The problem is that every type of video whether it be a music video, G rated movie, PG rated movie, TV show or pornography are all just roles in which one is acting. The fact that they are roles does not give one an excuse for participating in such roles.
VT on September 26th, 2009 6:39 am

Sunset Soon,

It is really rude and nasty of you to say such things about Sun even if you do not appreciate her singing. Please show some basic respect to her fans and those who love her.

I am reminded if this verse in Proverbs, ” A fool vents all his feelings, But a wise man holds them back”

Thanks,
VT
Melvin Chen on September 26th, 2009 8:00 am

Hi iMark,

Perhaps I leave you with something to ponder about…

You said
“The fact that they are roles does not give one an excuse for participating in such roles.”

Does this mean an actor acting as a murderer is really a murderer? Does this mean a rape victim in a movie is really a rape victim? What wrong have they done in acting out what happens in real society?

Not everything we do, need to bring an immediate direct result of salvation. The book of Esther has no mention of God, does that mean it has no place in the bible? Yet without a doubt, Esther was fulfilling the purpose of God at the right time and place.

I think we have to understand that not every song, movie and drama need to be a direct “promotion” of the gospel. We do not need to “preach” a message in every song and movie.

If they want to be preached to, they would go to church.

Yet, by expression of creativity, identifying with society, their pains, frustrations and sorrow, we can be real to society and at the right time and opportunity, bring hope and comfort to them – even without having to preach the gospel. By influence, when they see and experience comfort and love, given hope, they might come to know there is a God who is real.

Even when we don’t understand, like what they always say – look at her fruits.

How she has brought positive influence through her songs, counselling and social work. Look at the people who love her music and how they live their life thereafter – do they go become crazy clubbing people, or has their life been positively changed and in-turn become positive influences in society?
Melvin on September 26th, 2009 8:14 am

In my previous comment, I did not mean to say clubbing people are crazy…

I meant to say, look at her fruits: Do people go wild, crazy, uncontrollable, rebellious and vulgar after listening to her music and knowing her, or have they become positively influenced?

It may not be a direct result of the tune/lyrics of her songs, but she brings hope and positive influence to people and societies.
amazed on September 26th, 2009 9:13 am

way to go, pastor! Seems to me that everyone loves reading your blog. :)
ABC on September 26th, 2009 9:17 am

I applaud SUN for daring to live her life for what she believes in. For all the rest of you who have everything condemning and negative to comment about, please remember that you are not GOD and you won’t be the one on the Judgment Seat, nor are you the one who’s going to judge the way SUN lived her life. You may not agree, then keep your judgments to yourselves. I fear you reap back the same judgment with which you have judged SUN and Pastor Kong.

Final thing to say … I think SUN in her lifetime has led more to CHRIST than any of us here. SO who are we to judge her? Stand on the same platform, and see from the same perspectives, before you decide to make yourselves judges.
CCed on September 26th, 2009 9:20 am

Maybe you all sincerely believe you are right about all your flawed judgments on SUN and Pastor Kong.

Then maybe, when that day comes when you do see them before that same Throne…

I hope you won’t find yourselves too embarrassed and sorry that you have ONCE JUDGED THEM wrongly.

Please stop throwing your judgments or casting your first stones.
wen bin on September 26th, 2009 10:14 am

actually, I think most of the ppl are not really against her, but against peeps from CHC…well, i might be wrong though….
poppersie on September 26th, 2009 10:45 am

It’s perfectly okay if people are “against” peeps from CHC. No one is perfect. But why? Cause CHC people are defensive and fighting for their pastor or for SUN? AND why is that wrong? :)

Anyways … Let’s all stop being judges :)
Queen Esther on September 26th, 2009 11:14 am

Hail the new queen.

Prancing with her legs open close open close

selling her China Wine.

Cool vid!

Keeping her Christian faith secret in interviews so that people do not link her to God and Godliness so as to sell more albums.

So that her royalties can build more orphanages.

Reminds me of the late Great Michael Jackson who donated millions to charities, but died from drug overdose, with 2 child abuse cases in his name – with millions of kids enriched by his charity.

Madonna, who says papa don’t preach, dances around the cross in concert- could she also be the true Queen Esther to the kabalah faith?

Millons have been spent to raise Sun’s profile. When will she retire so as to be a good mom, and role model to her son.

Is it fair to hang her out there like Queen Esther in USA, fornicating with a non believing Husband?

Have a blessed weekend.
Where are you Sun? on September 26th, 2009 11:43 am

Jack Nicholson once said, “What I hate about hollywood is that everything is fake!” Nothing can be further from the truth. Everything is just an act. The actors and the actresses in real life are diffrent from what they portray.
However, these “fakes” are the ones that conditions our society specially the youth. They don’t have the maturity yet to distinguish the real from the role. What is perceived is the images seen on the media and those images conditions and creates mindset.
Media is apowerful tool to condition the mindset of our generation.
Sun’s CHina wine is a drop in a bucket compared to what we see on the total picture. But one question I dare us to answer. What does that video contribute to the bigger picture of sex and promiscuity in our society? As i watch it closely I am beginning to think where have we gone wrong as a church to give birth to someone like Sun who can strut her way to popstardom through such a sexually inspired video and justify it?
Sun, please give careful thought to your ways. Yes it was just roleplay but isn’t everything in the entertaiment world like that, rolepaly? But look at our society now!
It’s just a liitle act, but be reminded a little goes along long way. Sun, you have become like the one you want to win. It seems like you have not penetrated the world, the world has penetrated you.
This whole discussion calls us to rethink our stand. PLease stop this blasphemous comparison of Sun to Daniel and Joseph. LEt us not be blinded of suns charitable accomplishment. I miss the good old decent and beautiful Sun!!
TKH on September 26th, 2009 1:04 pm

To: “where are you Sun?”

Firstly I appreciate the fact that you can separate fact and fiction in the world of media.

Secondly, I am also glad that you realized that media is a powerful tool that influence the mindset of many.

But sadly that is where you stop. My question to you is what are you doing about the present condition? Churches has shunned Hollywood and condemned many things about it, yet sit back and do nothing to change the present status quo.

I am disgusted by all these religious, self-righteous attitudes of the so called believers, who preached about the love of God, yet did not know move a finger to even attempt to help those living in darkness. We have been guilty of only reaching those who we seem “fit” to receive the gospel (poor and needy?), while condemn those we think deserving of hell fire (rich and immoral?).

What kind of Christianity is this? Did not our Lord move among the tax-collectors and prositutes (the version of Hollywood of that time) and being accused by the religious Pharisees as a “friend of sinners”?

Did Jesus just purely preach the Gospel to them? No, he mixed with them, fellowship with them, not in the synagogues, but in their “wild parties”, influencing them as an indiviudual and not just in big crowd meetings.

I am saddened by your comments, because you have passed judgment even without getting the facts right?

You said “Sun, you have become like the one you want to win. It seems like you have not penetrated the world, the world has penetrated you.”

How do you know she is like them? I supposed you are also a kid, simply believe what you have saw on the MV. Can you separate fact from fiction? Your own judgment has just contradicted what you said in the beginning of your comments. It is childish and laughable.

In my opinion, if Joseph and Daniel are living in our times, I think you will judge them in the same way you viewed Sun.

I hope the Lord will open up your eyes to see your own state, else may end up “the blind leading the blind” …

God bless!

TKH
TKH on September 26th, 2009 1:13 pm

To Queen Esther:

You said “Is it fair to hang her out there like Queen Esther in USA, fornicating with a non believing Husband? ”

I’m not sure do you consider Esther in the Bible as a heroine or a harlot? If you consider her a harlot, it will be a very offensive remark to the Jewish people, as they celebrated the festival of “Purim” in memory of Esther’s act.

And by the way, you don’t “fonicate” with your non-believing husband, you have legal, undefiled sex with your HUSBAND. Hope you can see the contradict kid …

Maybe you should go back to school to learn more first?

Have a great weekend too! God bless!

TKH
CC on September 26th, 2009 1:32 pm

Queen esther, you sound ridiculous!

By the way when you exercise, your legs open and close too. Maybe you don’t exercise, but surely you do walk??? Watch your language.

And I think Sun doesn’t need to declare she is a God-believing artist. Its pretty obvious, thanks to everyone like you :) and she is never ashamed of being one. She just doesn’t need to walk about declaring she’s one…

Mind your language and manners.

TKH has put across very well. You need to update your information about esther and grammar/vocab too.
*ing on September 26th, 2009 7:13 pm

Hail QUEEN ESTHER!

I reckon you don’t follow Sun’s tweets. If you do, it is pretty obvious that she’s a Christian (you said she’s embarassed to admit she is one … Quoting you QUEEN, “Keeping her Christian faith secret in interviews so that people do not link her to God and Godliness…”). Hey if you would love to, do follow her at http://www.twitter.com/mynameissun SO THAT YOU BETTER UNDERSTAND HER before you judge :)

You said further, “So that her royalties can build more orphanages.”

Thanks for reiterating this fact! YES, her royalties go into society’s good!!! Anything wrong with that?!! She doesn’t use them to lavish on herself at all. They have a business for their livelihood.

“Millons have been spent to raise Sun’s profile.”
You mean you’ve been looking into her projects and into such account matters? Millions spent on what? Millions from where? You’re making SWEEPING STATEMENTS. Please don’t jump into conclusions.

“When will she retire so as to be a good mom, and role model to her son.”
Sounds to me you are NOT a mother??? If you were, you in fact, would be amazed and look up to SUN as a role model. Because you have been uninterested (OBVIOUSLY), you didn’t see that DESPITE her busy schedule, Dayan is VERY CLOSE to his mummy. Because you didn’t bother … you didn’t see SUN accompanying Dayan to school (she could have sent someone to do that because she’s very busy). MAYBE YOU SHOULD ASK LITTLE DAYAN cause he won’t lie to you. Just stop assuming and thinking you know it all.

STOP ASSUMING please?

Lastly, are you even thinking? Please explain what you mean by your JUDGMENTAL words … “Is it fair to hang her out there like Queen Esther in USA, fornicating with a non believing Husband?” Hello?!!? You are saying 1) She fornicated, 2) Her husband PASTOR KONG is “non-believing”??? What on earth are you talking about? If you are a christian, i FEAR for your soul! No one with sanity and the fear of God would dare say that!!!

If you honor the prophet, you get the prophet’s reward. If not ….

Anyway, well wishes to you.
:) on September 26th, 2009 7:41 pm

Please remember that we will all be held accountable for every idle word we speak. What’s more, judgments thrown on others. Worse still, derogatory words and jugments on a man or woman of God.
CHC on September 26th, 2009 10:53 pm

All heh breaks loose because of that stupid video CHina wine. IF there is someone guilty of degrading Sun it’s herself. She dagraded herself to the point of bringing the entire CHC to be irrationally defensive.

Even a non CHristian commented, “Is that a pastor’s wife? Why is she like that?” Try showing that to anunbleiever and honestly tell her that the artist is a pastor’s wife and just listen and see how they react.

Sadly even the unbelievers found her video distasteful. .
TKH on September 26th, 2009 11:11 pm

To CHC,

What a clever nickname you have used, pretending to speak on behalf of CHC. Such behaviour is shameful as I dun think you belong to CHC in any sense. I think you are the one that is degrading yourself in this forum.

Once again I can only treat you as a kid and talk to you like a kid. You are ignorant not to be able to distiungush fake from reality. In fact, I won’t be surprised if you have commented earlier using another nickname.

I have found you distasteful as well … sad …

May the Lord help you …

God bless…

TKH
CHC on September 26th, 2009 11:47 pm

TKH
Chinawine is plain and simple a stupid video and CHC is an immature church who cannot take differing view with grace. Tell your pastor not to post a blog where the world can comment. Do you expect everyone to share same opinion as yours, that’s childish man. Grow up. Take criticism like a man. You’re so gay. Yeh I treat you as a gay. i say this to your face…grow up! Be man enough. Fag!
LY on September 27th, 2009 12:02 am

As an Asian, a wife and a mom, I’m am truly supportive of what Sun is doing. It is truly challenging and takes much commitment to pursue such a big dream. After reading your story, I was very inspired to run after dreams I had but brushed aside.

However – Its is VERY disturbing to see and hear “Christians” label her with such nasty and derogatory terms. It really – embarrassingly exposes how “loving” the body of Christ can be. And sometimes we wonder why movers and shakers of societies assume and labels Church goers as judgmental, lame, corny and weird. What is even more surprising to me is when I hear some Christians ask why are City Harvest Church members supportive of what Sun is doing. When you are a part of an organization or family – Won’t it be only natural to celebrate the success of another member?

Sun – while there are some who comment nastily and probably are like that because they never did take risks to do any BIG in life… . Do always remember that there is a big group of us, Christians and non Christians alike who are very proud of you. Keep pursuing your dreams and break new grounds – especially for us South East Asians. Most of all thanks for not just taking an interest but also giving financially to build schools, orphanages and hospitals. Just by doing that, many kids and people are given a chance to life and to pursue their dreams and ambitions.
Victor on September 27th, 2009 12:07 am

A bid to mitigate the bedlam.

I think its way too easy for people to impersonate others or use pseudonyms to launch a barrage of unsubstantiated insults & unkind insinuations here.

Perhaps the moderator of this forum could require some form of registration so as to encourage responsible views?

Otherwise, how different is it from a vandal causing damage & then running away like a coward?

Sure. All are entitled to their comments, but we need to do so with certain maturity and a sense of responsibility.

This can only be achieved if the commentators are held accountable to some degree for their views, through registration of names & the use of the email address that is tied specifically to the use of the Name (or moniker).

Email addresses can ultimately be traced, should legal actions (though prayerfully not) is needed for libelous comments.

Otherwise, who knows if, for example, the person using the name Queen Esther, might just be Where are you Sun or Sunset Soon as well.

Possibly the work of one single mischievous/malicious individual impersonating a Legion.
TKH on September 27th, 2009 12:25 am

To CHC,

Honestly I am not bother by your comments, cos the more you say, the more you are exposing your true character. (in fact, i am really more amused by your comments : ) )

Again I supposed you are someone who have not encountered the Lord Jesus Christ, may He touch your life and give you a bigger vision in life.

I am gay in the sense that I am a very happy person … hahaha … hope you catch my joke …

God bless you.

TKH
PF on September 27th, 2009 12:42 am

Dear CHC,

whoever you are, believer or not, I guess you’re the very one who’ve just ‘degraded’ yourself by displaying such shallow thoughts and perspectives.

What is wrong with Sun being a Pastor’s wife? Does it make her not a human being, with no freedom or choice to live out her dream and go after what she believes in? You know what, I even dare to think that non-believers would be happy to receive her and her music because they find her RELATABLE, they find her RELEVANT.

Who says a pastor’s wife can’t be an artist? Just because you don’t see such people around, it doesn’t mean its wrong. Its only because Sun is the ONLY one who is courageous enough to engage the pop culture, and she’s doing SO WELL for your information.

Get your facts right – thousands of people all over the world enjoy her, love her – BELIEVER OR NOT.

And oh, you say that CHC is defensive? If fighting for our pastor, our pastor’s wife because we know and understand why they do the things they do = defensive, YES WE ARE. :) You have a problem with that?
LF on September 27th, 2009 12:51 am

CHC,

Who are you? Which church are you from? Are you a Christian? Are you even sane?

You have only successfully discredited yourself here.

With comments like that, who, in his right mind, is going to take you seriously?

I quote your comment, “Do you expect everyone to share same opinion as yours, that’s childish man. Grow up. Take criticism like a man.”

The irony of your puerile outburst is evident and highly amusing.

Nonetheless, if you missed it, let me explicate.

CHC, “do YOU expect everyone to share same opinion as yours, that’s childish man. Grow up. Take criticism like a man”

Obviously, we do not share the same opinion as you. “Do You expect everyone to share the same opinion as yours”?

Quoting you, “that’s childish man. Grow up. Take criticism like a man”

Your foolish and mean-spirited words, exposes your inanity, perhaps insanity, and is ultimately, self-defeating.

It only shows the kind of person you are.

And its not flattering.
Frank Lee on September 27th, 2009 1:04 am

Waa… everyday also got funny people one leh.

yesterday i just talk to sunset soon & now this funny person chc also show pattern.

u all same person is it? aiyo…

i repeat my comment for you,

so… tothe person who goes by ‘CHC’.

Waa CHC,

Your comments speak volume of your character.

Tsk tsk.

Can understand why you need to use an anonymous name.

Ashamed of making such rude remarks right?

Why so mean leh? Who provoke you huh?

Sekali reap wat you sow ah.

Shame shame.

sigh,,,
yesterday sunset soon, today chc, tml wat?

live & let live lah.

why u wan to come to another person blog & make so much noise leh?

yr life very boring is it?

get a life maybe?

You be a happier & more peaceable person.

’nuff said!
Lillian Cher on September 27th, 2009 1:36 am

I enjoy Sun’s music and admire her courage and dedication in pursuing her dream. As a music lover, I see the talent that Sun has and believe in her potential to make it big in this scene.

I am not alone. Since her debut in Mandarin Pop Music, she has sold millions of albums and won dozens of awards. Album sales & attaining coveted prizes speak for themselves. Since crossing over to Hollywood, Sun has made history as one of the very few Asians, and may I add, a Singaporean artiste, to succeed both in the East and the West. I think this is something we can and should be proud of. Could you imagine how great it would be if any of our Singapore Idols could follow suit and break into the U.S. market just like her? Won’t we rejoice with our fellow citizens as well? Hey, she is leading the way! We should salute her for that.

Her humanitarian work has also rendered effective help to the children and underprivileged in the communities all around the world. No offense, but to the tongue-wagging, finger pointing critics, I wonder how many people’s lives has your existence made a difference to? I mean a positive difference, of course.

I believe that a Christian can be free to dream and to fulfill the gifts and talents that God has given to us. Sun has done just that. Living her life according to the revelations she received and pursuing the destiny that she has in God. That is the kind of life we should live as Christian. Not forgetting we should also rejoice with those who rejoice.

Lillian Cher
TTD on September 27th, 2009 2:25 am

Hmm… yeh you’re right CHC
Terence Lee on September 27th, 2009 2:33 am

It is unfortunate that there are many trolls here who choose to disparage Sun anonymously. If you have the courage, why not reveal who you are and stand behind your criticisms?

In any case, I would like to add certain thoughts regarding China Wine. I’ve wrote an entry on my blog about this, but I’ll paste an excerpt below for discussion. My contention is that China Wine is guilty of orientalism:

In essence, Orientalism is a worldview prevalent among many Westerners in which the Orient is thought to be mysterious, exotic, and barbaric. Implicit in this worldview is the idea that Asians, Orients, or Middle-Easterners are somehow inferior to the more “civilised” European or American races. The root of Orientalism is said to have come from the colonial era, where the European powers sought to subdue and exploit weaker nations, most of which were in the East.

Even during the first Iraq War, instances of Orientalism were present in the American news media where Arabs were frequently portrayed as violent terrorists. Now, we all know the power of the media in shaping our worldview.

Studies have shown that viewers who watch news programmes tend to see the world as a more dangerous place than those who don’t watch news programmes, provided that other factors like education levels are kept constant. This is because we tend to assume that the world portrayed in the media is real — it forms a social construct of reality that shapes our perspective of the world.

Now, applying this to China Wine, we can see clearly how the video faults in portraying a false impression of Asians. Firstly, Sun calls himself a Geisha — which many Westerners misinterpret as being a prostitute when this is not so. China Wine makes no attempts to clarify this term.

Secondly, the mangled English spoken by Sun (meee wanna see pure lightaaa) does not disprove the notion that many Asians can speak perfect English. Never mind that much of the lyrics in the song is incomprehensible — it is the first impression of viewers that count.

Thirdly, Sun calls herself an Asian in the video. Now, what is “Asian” supposed to mean? Without making a clear distinction, she abuses the term, becoming guilty of the sort of Orientalism perpetuated by the Western media. Instead of being an Asian representative to educate the West on the distinctions and nuances of various Asian races and cultures, she adds to the confusion instead. It seems like Japanese, Korean and Chinese are all interchangeable terms.
7Max7 on September 27th, 2009 2:34 am

I read with some amusement on what certain people have commented especially about how certain style of dressing of women causes men to ” make her an object of mastubation.

I think the greater responsibility is on the guy to deal with the root of the problem… to choose NOT to masturbate, rather than WHO is to be the object of his fantasy.

As for the ‘girl hands’ going all over Sun’s body… would the author of the related posts rather have men’s hands going over Sun’s body instead?? Isn’t that worse?!

I believe that Sun had committed to the filming of the MV in a contract she signed with the recording company prior to the production of the album. I am glad she ’swore to her own hurt’ and completed the MV, which would have been a dilemma for her… rather then if she had pulled out… that is what i call a demonstration of maturity and responsibility, to herself, her career, to the recording studio and to those who believe in her. To my limited knowledge of the music industry, my guess is that she has limited control over how the MV would have been shot, but she had definitely done whatever she could to manage the situation to the best of her ability.

quote:–
The Bible says, “whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things” (Php 4:8). China Wine clearly does not fall into this criteria.
end quote:–
my response to the above: you choose what your own mind is supposed to meditate on. If China Wine is not your tune, meditate on something else. Why vex yourself over something that cannot be undone or things that are out of your control…?

to all the detractors claiming that Sun is not talented… I choose to say that “Sun is where she is because of all the effort and hard work she puts in above and beyond her talent(s)”. The hours she put in to her dance practices, singing lessons etc. No matter how talented she is, without hard work, she will not be who she is today. And if she is famous and popular, she has earned it. And people recognizes her efforts and whatever talent she has. Even if she does not meet your expectations/ standards of ‘talented singer’.

Personally, I didn’t really watch “China Wine” as the song is not really ‘my type’, but even if some do think it stupid…. there are others that enjoyed it. one man’s meat is another man’s poison.

About the ‘whole CHC becoming irrationally defensive’, i don’t see 27.000 different people posting replies to such allegations. Those who are ‘defending’… I guess would be those who have some ‘free’ time and/or chose to express their love for Pastor Kong or Sun by responding, before this “comment” section degenerate into a spit pit for naysayers and the people who disagree… to say what they would.

Where i do appreciate open comments, i do wish that detractors air their comments as graciously as they expect the supporters to be gracious in responses. Kindness begets kindness. So, for those who expect grace, please be graceful.

Even if the response you receive is crude or ‘grace-less’. If you cannot exemplify and teach others to be graceful as you are, then at least shame them by your good conduct.

rise above.

For if you sink to the “graceless” level, does it do you any good?

if you repay good with good, what different are you from the world? let not emotions cloud your better judgment. offenses will come, let it be a chance for all of us to learn to forgive and demonstrate grace and love for those who differ from us. whether Christian or atheist, let all see your faith in action.
Terence Lee on September 27th, 2009 2:40 am

For more on Orientalism, visit: http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Orientalism.html
Melvin Chen on September 27th, 2009 12:11 pm

Terence Lee,

Have you ever filled up an electronic form and there’s a section that does “ethnicity”. Under this section, there could be an item “Asian”. Do you have to specify and explain what kind of Asian you are and what Orientalism is?

Come on ! She is Asian because she comes from Asia.

How can you pick something like that and accuse her of being guilty of not making a “clear distinction”.

She’s doing music, she’s not expected and has no need to attempt teaching the world what is Asian, Japaense, Korean or Chinese. You are picking stones from eggs! It doesn’t matter !

Moreover, there is nothing wrong with being called Asian, it is merely describing which part of the world you come from. In the new globalised world, orientalism is not really an issue anymore.

Even if it is, this is not the place for you to introduce your philosophies and use it to accuse Sun of being guilty of this and that and try to be a teacher to everyone else here. This is Pastor Kong’s blog, not your advertising platform to promote your blog or try to teach us your great theories.
Melvin Chen on September 27th, 2009 12:23 pm

Terence, I have no idea how you can accuse her of being “guilty” and “abuse” of the term “Asian”. Its just an introduction of where she came from.

I wonder if you have ever visited any western country or watched CNN before. The word and identity of being Asian is not wrong at all and nobody is implying any orientalism.

You are totally ridiciulous, attacking her again and again with your strange philosophies.

You have claimed more than once that you are not attacking her or Pastor Kong, but more than once you have called her guilty.
7Max7 on September 27th, 2009 12:59 pm

Hi Terence, Melvin

I do agree that the concept of ‘orientaism’ is outdated.
The observations were coming from a perspective that is bigoted and that has proven itself through the test of time.

Orient is associated with China (largely) more than with Asia… and the description hardly fits the “China” that we know today. As for Sun being introduced as Asian… she would not be assumed to have originated from any of the other continents (Africa/US/Australia/Europe)… i think she was once introduced as “from Mainland China” which she had then corrected the compere when she took the microphone, that she comes from Singapore. Contrary to popular assumptions, not everyone knows where Singapore is and some people still assume that Asia is a ‘back water ghetto’… and i do not think it is fair to include these people into the crowd that we are addressing right now… they probably won’t be here to read these posts.

As for the last paragraph of what Melvin said… i would not assume your intentions. And, well, no one can stop you from doing whatever you want to do, but i do hope that you do not post comments without reading through it a couple of times, which is what i do. Firstly, that i do not mis-represent myself, secondly, it is socially responsible to do so, thirdly, to avoid misinterpretation by others.

If, for whatever reason that you are unable to do so, maybe you can consider not posting the comment till a later date. Afterall, what’s the rush? if it is clarifications that you seek, i guess you would wish to avoid needless justifications, clarifications and arguments over ‘wrong usage of terms’ or ‘phrasing of questions’.
7Max7 on September 27th, 2009 2:20 pm

Hi Tough,

Sorry that China Wine video has put you in a spot.

In a way, many people whether Christians or not, hold high expectations of churchgoers in general… and missed out that, despite going to church, we are all still humans. And expectations of Pastor’s wife are generally higher. Which is often true, even for spouses of leaders of secular organization.

However, i hope that you will not take their questions towards Sun personally, meaning their exclamation and surprise/shock is a reaction from the video…

I am guessing that you did not join them in dissing Sun, for which i am thankful. You seem to be a reasonable person and someone who is doing his/her best to live a Christlike life, which is probably why they will approach you with regards to such matters.

if it helps, you can just tell them that, well, all kinds of people go to church and you do not know her personally or what her motivation is and why she does what she is doing. Maybe they should direct the question to someone in a better position to handle their query.

With this answer, you do not side with Sun, (from the tone of your article, you disagree with), but you are not lying, you are not being critical, but you also do not allow yourself to be drawn into a discussion that you would rather not comment on.

As much as i understand that her duality as a pastor’s wife and performer is causing much controversy at this moment in time, i ask that you bear with it for the moment… all hype, good or bad, will cool down after a period of time… Even if no other artiste is being paparazzi-ed or causing controversy…

as with regards to her standing with God, a tree is proven by it’s fruits, and fruits take time to develop… whether her cause and motivation is good or bad, let time run its course and let God reward/admonish… He is still the One in charge and He is not mocked, whatever a man sows, he will surely reap.

As a sidenote, this reference being out of context and PURELY and ONLY towards the statement of “slut” being pastor’s wife: Hosea, a man of God in the Old Testament, stayed married to a woman who essentially prostituted herself… He is a picture of the patience and forbearance of God with the faithless generation, also embody the forgiving nature of God… His love eventually caused his wife to repent wholeheartedly.
[i am not comparing Pastor Kong to Hosea, nor making any inference of Sun being a "slut". I hold her in high esteem and regard her as someone doing her best to fulfill what she set out to do and whilst the MV in question gives a dubious image of who she is, to me having being in and out of CHC since 1995/6, she is still a kind and gracious lady at heart and i believe a faithful wife to 1 man, which is Pastor Kong, and a wonderful mom to Dayan]

For me, i trust my Pastor and Sun are doing their best in what they set out to do, fulfill the Cultural Mandate. And dealing with problems and situations, as best as they can, in their limited capacity. From the video clip snippets of Dayan and Sun, i can only conclude that she is also doing her best to be a good mom to the precious little boy.

For those who disagree, i can only ask that you could be more forbearing and patient with what is going on… if you feel that you should feel that you must voice out on the matter… to please be nice and gracious with your words.

it’s not just people reading… for every idle word, we must account to Him.
forgiveness win on September 27th, 2009 2:28 pm

Let us all stop criticizing or defending here.

I like what Pastor Kong preached today, that the words that a person say reflects his/her character and nature. We don’t need to fall into the trap of Satan that want to split the Church of Christ.

I remember Pastor Kong said years ago, “Forgiveness always win”. A R Bernard also said that God loves and forgives those who criticize and persecute him. Let us show them how we love them. To those who criticize us from another fellow church, we love you and forgive all of you. Let us imitate Christ rather than throwing stones to one another.

Pastor Kong and Sun really don’t need anyone to defend for them. God is their defendant! For those who criticize Sun, please remember that Sun cannot please everybody. Some may criticize her being too sexy, some may criticize her for too conservative… But I can use my head to gurantee that her heart is as pure as distilled water and as white as snow. She acted as a professional actress in the video perfectly and that’s all. As Christians why can’t us use an eye of appreciation to see how talent that God has given her, rather than filled by the Spirit of Criticism which is Satanic? One’s dressing cannot show that that person os Satanic, but one’s words can prove that he/she is Santic :)
7Max7 on September 27th, 2009 2:33 pm

Hi Victor

In a bid to migitate the bedlam… i think it is not necessary to ‘register’… the comment box says: speak your mind. If necessary, the server logs will hold whatever records that is required to trace the activities here in… should legal actions be necessary.
(i was from the IT industry, so i know a little of the stuff that works behind the scene)

I believe security and accountability matters had entered the minds of those who lead… but i guess Pastor Kong really rather that people express themselves freely, trusting people to be socially responsible and matured… maybe he was not fully prepared for the dissing and magnitude of negativity that would/had surfaced, but if he respect the ‘freedom of speech’, let’s do the same… let’s be big-hearted and accept the view point of others and where necessary, agree to disagree… which i guess would be the stand of the larger body of CHCers who have read the blog entries and have not spoken their piece.
Jeremy on September 27th, 2009 4:48 pm

I agree with both forgiveness win and 7Max7.

The best way to treat those people who only aim at speaking evil towards CHC and Pastor Kong is simply ignoring what they say. The reason of them to comment in Pastor Kong’s blog is to shame him or shame the Church and want people to reply to spread the false accusations. Replying them is tanamount to help them to spread the false accusations.

Thus next time when we see such comments in which the writer merely want to speak evil of us, simply forgive them and ignore them. When no people reply to their comments, sooner or later they will be discouraged and no longer have interest to post such false accusations in Pastor Kong’s blog. God is the Judge and our defendant. We no need to defend for anyone here. Let us just reply our comments only to Pastor Kong’s great article and ignore those comments with evil intentions~~
Jeremy on September 27th, 2009 4:56 pm

Oh, I forgot to say one more thing.

Pastor Kong and Sun are our Pastor and Role Model, and we know them much better than anybody else.

To those who want to “tell” us what wrong and evil things that Kong and Sun has done:
WE DON’T NEED SOMEBODY TO TELL US WHAT EVIL THINGS THAT OUR PASTOR AND ROLE MODEL HAS DONE. WE KNOW THEM MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT YOU KNOW!

Amen!
fancy free on September 27th, 2009 4:59 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFh9Su_SiM4\

Watch and see the fruits of her holy spirit shine forth from 2.50 min to 2.55 min. Her dress, her moves, her looks, her fancy free face.

Delicious.

You cannot see the wife / mother / daughter / sister in Christ in that scene. A fancy free soul. No rules of the godly world.

old (China) wine in new skin. I understand she was given more artistic freedom in this video and I am impressed. she stayed ‘on track’.

Great role model (?)

You judge. Is she the modern Day Joseph, Daniel and Esther as claimed in Pastor’s blog.

This is her newest major album and you need to judge its contents and lyrics for yourself to see if young church going kids should watch this unsupervised and be awed by her message as a ‘role model of your church’ in this fallen world.

I thank Pastor for allowing me to speak my mind as a parent of teenagers.

And I think this dialogue help strengthen our faith and make us love and understand each other more – as brothers and sisters in christ.

And open our hearts to counter views and understand what are the key takeaways from each criticism and not automatically do a knee jerk response to any criticism.

God bless.

Disturbed Parent.
salt and light on September 27th, 2009 7:53 pm

Thanks fancy free on September 27th, 2009 4:59 pm aka disturbed parent for the link and the comments. I assume you are a member of CHC and if so, I’m glad that there are worshippers there who question the comparison to Daniel. I suspect the purpose of this article was to garner support before the new single / music video came out and more criticisms poured in. Again Sun’s decision to go the way of Lady Gaga is her prerogative as an entertainer. (Fancy Free uses Lady Gaga’s choreographer). But the justification by the Pastor and his implication that wholesomeness = sanitised = shallow = being sold on church tables is trying too hard to justify his wife’s career decision. I spoke to my kids (late teens) and hubby abt Sun-Daniel, Job – Forest Gump and Proverbs – Simpsons comparison. They felt as I did , that the comparisons trivialised Daniel, Job and the book of Proverbs.

Anyway , I think this article gives believers an opportunity to search ourselves. I have been told that CHC attracts lots of new believers – which is fantastic !! But also because there are lots of young and impressionable believers out there, I pray that CHC and its leadership continue to do God’s work with sincere and obedient hearts and remember that God is loving but also holy. While we may disagree on the small stuff, we are one in the bond of love. So let’s pray for wisdom for all church leaders and for God’s bride – the Church – that we all stay true to Him.

Blessings to all
Philosopher on September 27th, 2009 10:35 pm

Dear 7Max7,

While you have expressed your ideals compellingly, I have, nevertheless, to concur with Victor’s suggestion of recommending some degree of accountability to encourage the expression of responsible views, which you doubtlessly see the importance of it as well.

I thank you for reminding us that usefulness of the server logs. I urge all commentators to keep that in mind, as they speak their mind.

Speaking your mind is not equivalent to rambling inanities or venting your pent out frustration.

The term ‘freedom of speech’ has been bandied around carelessly, and often abused by those who imagine they can hurl insults & get away.

It has degenerated to ‘I say what I feel & I like, never mind its veracity’.

This is,obviously, not freedom of speech in its true essence.

While I agree with you that mature and responsible exchange of views are encouraged, I reiterate that this can only be possible when some degree of accountablity is called for.

Freedom of speech is only possible with some degree of accountablity.

Accountablity does not & should not worry those who put forth mature & responsible (even at times, contrary) views.

In an ideal state, there is no need for prisons or jails.

Till we get there, I go for accountablity.

And to Jeremy.

While your intentions may be noble, I fail to understand how replying to accusations is tantamount to helping them ’spread the accusations’.

Instead, I stand together with the many ‘defenders’ here that the basic premise of our response is because of our understanding that a lie unchallenged & repeated often enough soon take on a veneer of ‘truth’ to the populace.

In short unconfronted lies are dangerous.

As such, every lie, every unsubstantiated accusation, every ill-intended insinuation, every idle word, must be confronted with & challenged, with robust, with vigour & with conviction.

And that is why we reply.
Philosopher on September 27th, 2009 10:41 pm

In an ideal state, there is no need for prisons or police.

(not jails as I wrote earlier)
Jeremy on September 28th, 2009 12:42 am

to Philosopher:

I see what you mean, thank you for your feedback~

I remembered Pastor Ulf once said, “The history of Christianity has always agrued for many unimportant things in the past 2,000 years”. Just wonder when will those self-called Christians who throw stone to us will awake, stop spliting the body of Christ, and start to complete the Great Commission of Jesus Christ… All their “accusations” are so meaningless and naive to discuss here, when compared to the Great Commission…

But certainly I understand what you mean, that not every reader are as wise as us. There must be some unwise readers outside our church that believe the things that those unwise people wrote… So I agree sometimes reply to their comments may be necessary.
7Max7 on September 28th, 2009 2:01 am

Hi Jeremy
As much as it is easier to ignore detractors and those who are not willing to be gracious in speech, i think it may be more important to read beyond the feelings to address the issue.

if the comment posted has nothing except accusations and insults, only then should the individual be overlooked, till such time when he/she is able to reasonably express him/herself.

I guess, for me, to those that seek clarifications, if i can, i will respond, to those that prefer to scream and holler, i may well ignore.

*sidenote: i really do not believe myself to be wise/smart/godly. i’m just a work in progress trying to be nice.
Terence Lee on September 28th, 2009 10:21 am

Melvin,

you do not get my point at all. Instead of accusing me, I implore you to look at what I say for what it is and criticise it instead of accusing me of harbouring an agenda. I suspect you obviously have something against me. Let me say that I have nothing against anyone here.

Go critique my point about orientalism, Melvin. Go think about whether this is true or not, and whether it is happening in the American media. Think about how the American media and entertainment scene portrays Chinese and Asians in general and whether such stereotypes still exists.

7max7,

I don’t understand what you mean when you say orientalism is outdated? Do you mean it doesn’t exist or do you mean orientalism is something that still exists and we should do away with it?

And I don’t think you understand what orientalism is. It isn’t so much what Asia is today, but how Asia is still perceived and portrayed by the Western media.

And yes, I do check my posts.

And lastly, a general comment to all: I don’t see a problem with criticism, as long as it is done with genuine concern and an open attitude. I do have a problem though with those that call people who ask genuine questions as harbouring an “agenda” or being “evil”.
Terence Lee on September 28th, 2009 10:27 am

Melvin,

you said:

“In the new globalised world, orientalism is not really an issue anymore.”

Oh it isn’t? What of the racism against Asians we hear in Australia and America? What of the stereotypes we encounter against Asians in movies and tv shows? Who says orientalism still isn’t occuring? What of the many Americans who still blindly believe Islam is a religion of terrorism?

I think if one just open his eyes, he will see that orientalism is still alive and well :-)
Modern day Daniel ? on September 28th, 2009 10:28 am

@ what is China wine on September 25th, 2009 10:59 am

I watched the whole interview at the site you posted.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/2182261#utm_campaign=twitter.com&utm_source=2182261&utm_medium=social

To be fair, she was quite impressive as a recording artiste, addressing her fans by name and switching from English to Mandarin effortlessly. As a Singaporean, I would say she does S’pore proud with her talent and hard work. Kudos to her for that. But I do not see any modern day Daniel in that interview. The first time she mentioned God was at 08:53 into her interview, where she exclaimed “Oh God !” in reply to some fan. Some critics might say she was using God’s name in vain , lol ! Anyway as an entertainer, I’d say she’s doing well. But the claim abt Modern day Daniel is just way off. I listened right to the end of the interview (quite painful) to see if she was all that Kong Hee made her out to be in this article. And I’m sorry to say I heard more about Sun’s music, Sun’s world domination , Sun rising than God or Jesus. I think I heard “Oh God” as an exclamation twice….Even when she spoke abt her past, she said she was a counsellor, no mention abt her work in a church which would have given more exposure to the church at least. Anyway , watch that interview – where she could have done a lot more as a modern day Daniel – and make your own decision as to whether this article carries weight…

peace !
smiley on September 28th, 2009 10:47 am

you need a chill pill melvin.

let me know if you need to get some stock.

:)
Terence Lee on September 28th, 2009 11:02 am

Philosopher,

speaking like an enlightened person I see :-)

Being actively involved in online media, I have seen numerous platforms such as this being abused as a platform for ridicule, lies, deceit, and emotional lashing.

Instead, such platforms should be used for rational debate in which the best ideas win. We should aim to promote a “marketplace of ideas” on Pastor Kong’s blog where we can openly and rationally question, debate, and criticise without fearing that we will be accused of being “anti-church” or “anti-this” or “anti-that”.
Business Proposition on September 28th, 2009 11:30 am

Thanks to Modern Day Daniel.

Leraning points:

This is is a business proposition to help in the sales of the new album.

The contents of the videos for fancy Free and China wine are all secular and not godly.

Nor do they attempt to be fruits of the holy spirit.

Money has been poured into this secular project.

And I am glad church members, in their cell groups, will not be overtly or covertly pressured to ‘toe the line’ and ’support’ this business venture of the secular investors.

After reading these discussions, members should be free to make their own decisions on the purchase.

Thank you.
Melvin Chen on September 28th, 2009 1:46 pm

Terence,

As a frequent traveller to the west, I can tell you there is nothing wrong with being called Asian. Just go tune in to CNN boy…if the word Asian offends you so much, I can’t help you…its just pathetic.

Something is very wrong with you for being offended about being called Asian. I pity you, seriously.

The issue here is not about orientalism. This is not a platform for you to debate your philosophies and whether she is guilty of orientalism.

You are just trying to play the role of public prosecutor (or maybe accuser of the brethren) and firing baseless accusations one after another, in fact you wanted to play judge by pronouncing her “guilty” in your own words.
AAL on September 28th, 2009 1:46 pm

As usual I read the blog with the expectation of the flood of comments… right or wrong, good or bad.

After reading the blog and the comments, I just have a few thoughts hope that it will help those who already set their perspectives i.e Sun is right or Sun is wrong, or Kong is right or Kong is wrong, to ponder

1. Who are we to judge others? Even God will not judge us
2. Who are we to use words to “kill” (literally) others? While Jesus never say a bad thing about us, even when He was on the cross
3. How do we know if a ministry is blessed by God? By the fruits the ministry bears

I salute Sun and Kong for all the things that they do for the good things they do for the Kingdom of God. Only if we are in their shoes, we will understand what kind of sacrifies this couple make for the Kingdom of God.

Did any of you ever see the tears in joy of those being helped? I bet you never. Cause if you did, you won’t give such a comment about Sun.

Did any of you ever experience the pain of family members condemning and accusing you for the good thing you have done to the family? Again, I bet you don’t, cause if you did you will never say any word to hurt a fellow sister. Not talking about supporting her yet, but hurting one in the family by words.. sigh!

I really pray that for those who have eyes but can’t see, ears but can’t hear, I really beseach them to look beyond appearance like the world did. Look beyond that ! Look into the heart.

I believe that noone can hide their truth motive or hiden agenda for long especially in the Kingdom of God. And, throughout all these years, I see integrity, consistency in Sun.

To Sun – “I love you and very proud of you ! Please continue to do the right things in God’s eyes! ” ~ supporting sister from Christ
Melvin Chen on September 28th, 2009 2:13 pm

Dear AAL,

I agree and applaud your sensible words :).
Terence Lee on September 28th, 2009 3:05 pm

Dearest Melvin,

I’ve never said there is anything wrong with being Asian. All I’m saying there is something wrong with the way certain Western media outlets portray Asians.

I’m proud to be Asian, by the way.

Also, you did not answer my point about orientalism.

“What of the racism against Asians we hear in Australia and America? What of the stereotypes we encounter against Asians in movies and tv shows? Who says orientalism still isn’t occuring? What of the many Americans who still blindly believe Islam is a religion of terrorism?”

What is your response to that? Did you also know that in America, some people are afraid of President Obama just because his middle name is “Hussein”? What does that tell you about the mindset of certain individuals? The media has a powerful role in affecting the minds of people like you and me, my dear friend.

All I am saying is that media personalities ought to be careful how they portray Asians to the Western media.

Once again, you make accusations against me. I don’t care what you think of me, Melvin, because my conscience is clear. I came here to contribute to the discussion, not to sow disharmony. Calling me “pathetic” and calling me an “accuser” doesn’t do anyone any favours. You don’t even know me personally, Melvin.

I am willing to put all this aside and focus on the discussion. I don’t wish to take things personally. But will you?
miss the old sun on September 28th, 2009 3:09 pm

We miss the old Sun :(

http://www.antioch.com.sg/events/intpasch/
Terence Lee on September 28th, 2009 3:12 pm

Dearest AAL,

I’d like to ask some questions about what you said.

Do you think it is wrong to critique a person’s actions in public without criticising a person’s moral character? In the case of China Wine, is it okay if we question the contents of the video while maintaining support of Sun?

My opinion is that it is no different from saying that I love the F1 race in Singapore even though I can criticise how bumpy the race track is.

Also, I’d like to ask you this question: What happens if what one does is wrong or at least questionable? Then isn’t it up to family members to at least sound a warning? Or do we convince ourselves that what they do is always right?

I’d like to know what you think on these matters.
unevenly yoked on September 28th, 2009 3:48 pm

Dear Terence –

it is obvious from the comments that as far as many are concerned,

It is Pastor’s Cultural Mandate.
She can do no wrong.

All the Naysayers are Pharisees in Jesus time, or bloggers trying to promote their own agenda.

So beware the false teachers. Esp those selling secular albums.

I was a non believer. My wife who is a Christian journeyed patiently with me for 17 years before I was baptised.

And I hear how Pastor Kong throw stones in Sweden at another pastor ministering to a Christian who is unevenly yoked and I feel so so angry at Pastor. (Cheap Grace?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdOFW5oikvA

If my wife had laid hands on my pillow to bless me, that would be the ultimate symbol of her love.

Pastor Kong laughed – listen to the youtube.

Do not judge?
Who has judged?

My non- believing brother says this – Christianity is a beautiful Religion. It is the Christians who give it a bad name.

And sadly I agree – the Christians, the pastors, the Catholic priests.

We are a mess.

But we are a Church on a journey and we become better.

We always do.
(Sorry if I sound upset and disrespectful and no – I ain’t no pharisee)

I went to Sun’s twitter – please ask her to stop using dope – it refers to street language meaning top grade drugs – in that circle too, bitches refers to women you love and mother*uckers means all mankind. Please don’t go ‘there” to appear cool and hip. It is painful.

And I feel pain when I see her trying to be what she is not. A Singaporean. She obviously do not know what lurks in that language.

Man that is Dope!!

God is great. God bless all.
point of clarification on September 28th, 2009 4:00 pm

This link says

http://www.antioch.com.sg/events/intpasch/

CONFERENCE HOSTS:
REV H. KONG &
REV YEOW-SUN HO (1997)

Pastor says in his blog

Although Sun is married to me, she herself was never formally ordained as a minister. She never felt gifted with a pulpit ministry. But ever since Sun was a child, she had participated in many singing contests and won quite a few of them.

Can I check – what makes a Rev in your church?

Thank for clarifying.
Van F on September 28th, 2009 8:05 pm

I agree totally with what lilian says
Lim on September 28th, 2009 9:05 pm

There is no argument that Ho Yeow Sun has done tremendously well as a singer. I believe she has also done humanitarian work that has blessed the less fortunate.

Much of the negative reactions to Ho Yeow Sun’s career as a singer is probably due to the fact that she is the wife of a pastor and the worship pastor role she used to be at the church. I believe that we should not place such unnecessary burden on her as she is no longer a worship pastor and has chose to pursue a career in the entertainment line. Let her do her job to the best of her God-given abilities.

Is she the best role model of CHC’s so called cultural mandate? Maybe…But to many other Christians, she is definitely not the Joseph or Daniel of modern day.
7Max7 on September 28th, 2009 9:47 pm

Hi Terence

Apologies for lack of clarity.

When i say that orientalism is outdated, i meant the notion of orientalism being defined as “wide variety of assumptions and various paradigms of thought which are accepted on individual, academic, and political levels during the pre-colonial and colonial times.”, That time period had long expired and as such, definition of Orientalism is no longer applicable in the context of 21st century.

If i am not wrong, the site of reference which you have quoted supports the fact that ‘orientalism’ as defined by the 19th century scholars as ‘in need of redefinition’.

As for your comment about how the West perceive Asia today… i would suggest that you may be overgeneralizing, or basing your argument on comments/bias/impressions accumulated from 1990s? Many, if not all, the world leaders today consider China an economic powerhouse, to the extend of considering making the RMB the global currency of trade… Also, China has been posting strong consistent GDP growth, despite a global climate of recession. Hardly the kind of impression one would have of the Orient, based on the precolonial definition of Orientalism,

Again, if you would base your stand upon the minority who are somehow living in the notions of centuries past, i would have to agree to disagree with you and leave you with your musings for matters more worthy of attention, since what you seek is not a second opinion on contemporary matters, but enforcement of outdated notions upon others.
http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Orientalism.html

The mis-definition of orientalism by intellects of centuries past is being rectified progressively, even as we type… and those who would not change their minds would eventually be considered fools even by their own countrymen. Many “Westerners” have been “Orientalised”, married Orientals and settled among the Orientals, learning the language and adapting to the culture and some have even forsook their citizenship of their country of birth! In view of this, should the term Orientalism not be redefined?

I would not belabor the point with further elaboration of how the japanese candle bar charts are being used by Western financial analysts or how the Art of War is often quoted as a ‘must read’ for Occidental businessmen, by Occidental publishers and leaders.

If i were to assume your stand, that we are to consider the views of the ‘wise’ of the past as infallible, and that the mistakes of the wise of the bygone eras were not rectified, we would all have to believe that the world is flat and that the Sun revolves around the earth.

Laughable, yes, but check back in history, generations of scholars and the wise men did believe the world was flat. Anyone professing the same now would be consider mad, if not foolish, no?

I would also like to express my appreciation that you acknowledge my suggestion to check your comments prior to posting them…

i would be much more grateful if you could also read your comments from the perspective of someone who’s stand/convictions differ from yours before posting. That would really be great!

Thanks Terence!
Terence Lee on September 28th, 2009 11:56 pm

7max7,

good to discuss matters with you in a rational and reasonable manner. I appreciate that.

Regarding orientalism, while the concept may be outdated and it needs to be redefined, that does not mean we have done away with orientalism. It is just that orientalism needs to be brought to the present context.

For example, while we cannot talk about how the West colonises the East and thus portrays them in the inferior manner, we need to recognise that in some ways this perspective still exist among *some* Westerners. Once again, I would like to raise the example of Obama and how people make such a big fuss out of his “Hussein” middle name. Ask yourself this: Why can’t Americans accept a Muslim president? What about a Chinese president?

Often the Western media blows up the issue about Islam and how it is somehow related to terrorism. It doesn’t help, of course, that nowadays Islamic fundamentalists often claim to be “Muslim”. So you see, orientalism is not something that is totally done away with, and there is no reason why anyone, Sun included, should try to reinforce certain outdated notions about Asians.

I will admit that as Asian powers like China and India rise, these stereotypes will slowly ebb away. We see the influence of Bollywood and movies like “Slumdog Millionaire”. But I think it will take some time before Orientalism totally disappears. But that is being idealistic. It can be reduced, but it will never go away.
Carol on September 29th, 2009 12:27 am

I use to hate Sun,
thinking that she’s so ewww~~ what’s she doing out there using the name of “christian” to get famous.
However as time goes by, I realise that she’s not using anything but her voice to touch people’s heart all over the world.
I am so glad that because of her, many people changed their perspective of a christian, who ever said that christians are not allowed to sing, dance sexily spreading love with music and passion?? It’s not written in the bible or the law of moses right?
I really do looked up on her.
All the hard work that we couldn’t see.
chinese saying: 台上三分钟，台下十年功。
therefore i think we can choose not to like her, or choose to not listen to her music.
But definately not judge her when we don’t even know her in person.

Lastly i want to say, All the best Sun and Pastor Kong.
There are thousands of people out there who hated you guys.
But there’s alway another thousands of people out there behind the two of you, loving and supporting you guys. do not be discouraged. =]
Reuel Eugene on September 29th, 2009 1:39 am

Hi ‘Modern day Daniel ?’

Why are you putting so much emphasis in this interview? Please note that non-believers are already sick of people trying to be holier-than-thou, hard-selling the Gospel to them. They don’t need yet another singer trying to preach about God to them on the live interview. Did that ever occur to you? Whats more, the interview is about her and her songs isn’t it?

Holiness is of the heart. You don’t need to tell everyone “I am a Christian. I did so and so in Church…” for yourself to secure your salvation or to be a christian. If you do, isn’t that quite Pharisaical and superficial? Please don’t try to be more spiritual than Jesus.

If you are so affected by her not mentioning ‘God’ or preaching a 40minute sermon in the interview, then perhaps your faith is quite easily shaken? Do you talk to everyone about christianity every 5 minutes? If you do, I fathom you’re alittle weird. Life is about living for God, but life encompasses alot more things as well, which God desire for us to deal with or have- work, family, friends and more.

I pray that you will understand true Holiness and live a secure life knowing that He is in your life whether you mention to people you’re a christian or not. :)

To unevenly yoked,

Yes, Christianity is a beautiful religion, actually it’s more about a relationship than a religion, but anyway true, it’s SOME (minority, please don’t lump all christians, good and bad together.) of the people that messed up, making it look bad. My question would be, are you or I contributing to it?

You said: “And sadly I agree – the Christians, the pastors, the Catholic priests.”
To say many christians, pastors and catholic priests make it look bad in one sentence, it seems to me you’re quite the self-righteous type?

Once again, we hear this about pastor kong criticizing another pastor. Pastor kong was simply bringing out a point. (read my previous reply) For me, I am glad I heard that sermon because it taught me not to be an extremist. Being a considerate pastor, pastor kong never reveals the names of anyone who did injustice to him or the Gospel in the past nor the days to come. In the first place, does what he say make sense? Why do people always focus on the hole in the middle of the donut?? Don’t miss the point!

What is wrong with using the word ‘dope’? In the dance scene, ‘Dope’ is a slang used on people whose moves are super awesome. You can check out the dance scene if you haven’t already have. By the way, saying ‘Dope’ is a amoral action. To say one can’t say that is like saying one cannot drink beer and wine at all because it will make you drunk. C’mon pal.

And I was a dancer and I used that word. I still use it today when I see awesome dance performances does that mean I am what you say about Sun too?

Why do you like to criticize so much? To be in pop culture, you have to speak their language, if not how to make a impact? Assume Daniel did not put on the babylonian makeup nor learn the magic arts and literature of the babylonians, do you think he would still make such a big impact? (Disclaimer: She did not compromise and say the B word or whatever.)

To see if this person is really a man of God, see their fruits. The end result never lies. Look at how chc, under the leadership of pastor kong touched lives of many in countries around Asia, be it in the spiritual (setting up of many churches and a few bible schools through members and SOT students) or the secular (being the first group to gain access to helping the Sri Lankans at the IDP camps and many other relief programs). As for Sun, find me a bad report of her in LA by the paparazzis. She has touched the lives of many being a counselor in the past and many more, but after stepping into the marketplace ministry, she continues to silently minister to the many depressed celebrities where their depressed emotions are very much hidden from the public eye.

I assume you are a parent and would be sensible enough to look at things from a full spectrum perspective instead of your own (perhaps biased?) perspective.

For those who are intending to give their negative two-cents worth, my sentiments would be, if half the people so interested to bring pastor and chc’s name down in this blog, would also be diligent in reading pastor’s daily devotion which updates daily- much more than the blog, perhaps it would have do better for them, improving their knowledge on the things of God. Bible says be diligent in seeking out the Word, not being diligent in pointing fingers.

And, over at CHC, we do not force people to like Sun at all. Because I wasn’t forced to like Sun, no not at all. I thought she was good, that was it, but I slowly felt in love with her songs, as of many, believers or not. So, please get your facts right instead of slandering the church for convincing all members to endorse Sun.

Matthew 12:36
But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

Woe to any who discourages the man of God from accomplishing what God has set him to do.

Be blessed.
Reuel Eugene
Melvin Chen on September 29th, 2009 1:44 am

Hi point of clarification,

The norm is that a Reverend is someone formally ordained, laid hands on and appointed and licensed to carry out funerals, weddings, etc.

In the case of Sun, it was an honorary title because of her work in co-founding the church, pioneering the creative and worship team, etc. She was not formally ordained in that sense and did not perform funerals, weddings, etc.
Melvin Chen on September 29th, 2009 1:57 am

Terence,

I chose not to reply on this, because Sun is not guilty of what you accuse her to be – of abusing the term “Asian” and of “orientalism”. She’s innocent. Period.

This orientalism thing isn’t even an issue at all with Sun’s work. Your talk about Obama and whatever are all irrelevant to our discussion here.

You protested against being called an accuser – but you indeed are guilty of that. You are not just clarifying or asking a question. You have called her guilty.

I will also not debate with you on orientalism because you are just hijacking this well-read blog as a platform of your personal debates and promoting your blog.

I may not know you personally, but you will be surprised…
Terence Lee on September 29th, 2009 2:19 am

Melvin,

it is relevant in the wider scheme of things. It has to do with how China Wine reinforces certain attitudes and beliefs. And you have not disproved to me or the readers that China Wine does not promote orientalism.

You choose to distract from the discussion and focus on me “accusing” her. You also seem convinced that she can do no wrong. Do you believe that?

As for promoting my blog, once again you are distracting from the discussion. I did not promote my blog in my first comment here. I did so subsequently because what I wrote happened to be relevant here. In fact, I see nothing wrong with promoting my blog as long as I think it adds to the discussion. But for your sake, I shall reduce instances of it.
Terence Lee on September 29th, 2009 2:20 am

As for the me being surprised bit, I know more than you think I know ;-)
Terence Lee on September 29th, 2009 2:29 am

Let me illustrate what I mean by wider scheme of things.

It’s like if a person has an injury, you go and aggravate it.

If certain stereotypes are already there, why go and reinforce it? Why the need to confuse Asian with Geisha and Chinese? You said you are widely traveled, but you just need to flip the news to know stereotypes still exist.

In any case, I don’t really wish to debate this here anymore, because I don’t think you will change your mind. We can continue this in private if you want. You know how to reach me.

But just to make clear my case here:

I support Sun’s endeavours, despite her missteps. Anyway, I think China Wine is just a minor aberration in her career. We can never agree totally with Sun’s actions, being adults with our own minds. But we need to be mature about our disagreements, and not let it cloud our support for her.

I see this blog as a good platform to debate and disagree reasonably, and NO ONE should be persecuted or accused of harbouring an “agenda” for disagreeing with what Pastor Kong writes, provided he or she speaks sensibly.

Only children will be naive enough to believe 100% what their elders say.

China Wine, to me, is a small issue, but I want to make my views towards it known to people here, for their benefit, and for me to sharpen my own views.
Yi Lee on September 29th, 2009 6:26 am

Thank you for the articile~~ Just wondering, where do we draw a line in terms of contextualisng with the modern society? As I heard people commenting before that to reach out to the lost we need to talk, dress and act like everyone else…some have been saying that it’s ok to dress really revealingly when occasions calls for it …. But what’s the underlying Biblical principles behind all these? Jesus did ate with the sinners but he didn’t commit sins.
5 Questions for Pastor on September 29th, 2009 6:59 am

Thanks Terence.

I am proud of you.

At least you reply in your own name.

doesn’t Pastor reply to comments in his blog post?

Or does he reply under a pseudoname?

Pastor, 5 question for you.

1) do you have any regrets on the China wine video?

2) Is it purely secular, and completely out of your own and sun’s artistic control?

3) Did Sun enjoy the experience of that video or was she conflicted doing that video?

4) Do you think she ’stumble’ in the video, so that the majority of Conservative Singaporeans may see her as a ’slut’ and cause other Christians more difficulty in witnessing to the faith?

5) More imporatantly – Is it a video you would want your son to watch? At what age? Why?

Rgds

Concerned parent
7Max7 on September 29th, 2009 7:30 am

Hi Yi Lee

I’m not sure if i am in a position to answer the question, as i am a guy. But personally, i think contextualising with the modern society does not necessarily require that you dress in what you would consider overtly revealing clothes.

I have seen women in low cut dress/ micro skirts and they keep fidgeting and tugging at their apparel in fear of exposing their modesty. I think it is better if they have wore something that is presentable and that they are comfortable with, rather than trying to keep up with fashion.

I have observed that some would consider certain type of clothes ’sexy’ while others would call it ’sexually provocative’… since there is no standard rule that can be relied on, maybe it is better if you judge matters for yourself.

If your friends are insisting that you dress in a certain way which you are not comfortable with, you may want to consider telling them how you feel, or in the case that you are not able to convince them, consider getting together with another group of friends. Peer pressure is sometimes difficult to deal with, but if your friends would ostracize you over what type of clothes you wear, i’m not sure if they should be the type of people you ought to hang out with.

That said, people, whether man or woman, should be comfortable with what they wear and look presentable and not look sloppy.
Heart - on September 29th, 2009 9:31 am

Yee Li

God looks at your heart, not what is skin deep.

Tattoo is fine. (tongue ring, nipple ring? similar to culture of pierced earlobes for Asians??)

Still, you may want to join that group, dress like them, but with a pure heart, you can try to win them over to God. Do not judge them or stop being their friends.

We Christians do not judge. There are enough conservative Christians out there who judge.

Dear 7Max7

Not sure – is this the cultural mandate?

____________________________________________

Masterbation.

I think it is fine for a 45 year old man, (physically separated from his wife for long periods of time due to work commitments) to blog that it is ok to masterbate, but everything written must be age specific.

An innocent 12 year old girl, raging with hormones will also read your blog and be tempted. That is why most people reading your blog on masterbation commented that the post is ‘cool’ and will pass it to all their friends.

Like you said in a video- spiderman – with great powers comes great responsibilities.

PS – what you teach today may not be what you will want to teach when your child becomes a teen. Though your words I am sure are guided by the Holy spirit at that moment. In another context, your blogs are good.

God bless. I will stop commenting and pretend I know more than Pastor.

As always, I wish you and your church success for God.

Auspicium Melioris Aevi.

Parent.
Steve Liu on September 29th, 2009 9:37 am

I am an American having been in the U.S. now for 33+ years. I came to this country as an immigrant. I have only been introduced to CHC recently (no more than 3 months) and had only learned that Sun Ho is a pop singer. This evening, I made myself go through the entire video, twice. My reaction is: WHY DO THIS? How does it glorify our Lord Jesus Christ? I really do not understand why one has to degrade oneself like this just to enter the U.S. pop market? I found the entire video to be vulgar, at best. And quite insulting to us Chinese!! And Concerned Parent’s questions are right on!!

My walk with the Lord has always been to honor and glorify God. My personal priorities are: God, Family, Country and Career. I disagree that we have to lower our own standards to that of non-Christians to the point that we conform to their standards. What’s the point? Sure, we should reach out to non-believers but we should NEVER EVER compromise our values!! What is RIGHT is RIGHT and what is WRONG is WRONG.

Will lift up Pastor and his family in prayer for wisdom and discernment, including the congregation.
Modern Day Daniel ? on September 29th, 2009 11:26 am

@ Reuel Eugene on September 29th, 2009 1:39 am

Lol , take it easy man ! Don’t have to be so defensive of Sun / Kong Hee / CHC. You read too much into the comments of people who are disagreeing with this article that tries to equate Sun as a modern day Daniel / Esther.

I merely went thru the video linked by a previous comment and viewed it from Kong Hee’s contention that she’s a modern day Daniel. No where did i say she had to mention God every 5 mins. In fact she did well in that interview as a secular entertainer. Kong Hee should have left it as that – ie she is an entertainer and no more in ministry. That would have been fine. But he holds her out to be a modern day Daniel / Esther in this article and that’s where the debate arises.

He also equates Job to Forest Gump, Proverbs to Simpsons and critics to pharisees which again leads to more debate.

To make myself clear , I think Sun did well in the interview as a secular entertainer. What she does with her body and talents is between her and God. But this article goes too far to justify her career choice and brought in issues of wholesomeness, shallowness and “sanitised” Christians.

Ruele Eugene – have u watched the interview ? Did u see a modern day Daniel / Esther ? We should look at the interview purely as an entertainer’s plug for her new music video. But in the context of this article, perhaps expectations of Sun became one of a Modern day Daniel ….

Pls don’t look at comments like mine as attempts to tear down your pastor , his wife , your church. In fact it is a healthy debate that compels each of us to reflect on our faith and our values. It’s a debate between those who hold to the view that we “be in the world but not of the world” , that we be “holy as He is holy” vs “wholesome and shallow” , “sanitised” Christians who don’t relate to the real world. Where do we lean towards ? Who’s right ? Who’s wrong ? I guess if we are motivated by love for others and we can face God at the end of our journey on earth , no one can decide for another which path to take. So chill people, agree to disagree….But I would like to ask believers to look to God for direction , not to pastors or church leaders cos they don’t neccessarily get it right all the time as history has shown…

peace !
Passerby on September 29th, 2009 12:09 pm

I was just passing by and i am shocked to see so many Christians with so many opinions and “stabbing ” each other.

If this is sharpening the mind, I think other religions are more civilized as they do not seem to be “killing” each other in public!
Omega Boy on September 29th, 2009 12:51 pm

To Steve Liu

I believe that CHC is actively engaging Pop culture, so as to create a voice in this arena. Being new, I think it will be wise of u to seek clarification from the church members about this matter, before jumping to conclusions.

I do not see the video as “degrading”, as it is just a video. MTV is a fun medium for young people basically to have fun. As u may be a bit older, you may find it harder to relate to that.

As a video, it is also just a video. I do not think that many of us see the images of Orientalism in it. In 3 minutes, that is a bit of a handful for normal human beings. It is just a story about a girl at a club, and I think most people are able to discern between fact and fiction.

Sun Ho acting in a music video or a video with a night club scene, does not make her a “lesser” person. If u acted in “Silence of the Lambs” as a serial killer, I would not jump to the same conclusion about you!

In entering the club scene, she is just being relevant to that arena, playing a role.

I believe that u will not find any misadventures about Sun Ho in real life, and instead you will only find contributions that she has made to society through the various awards she has won.

Let’s not look at the image of Sun in the video and get carried away. After all, appearances are only flesh deep.
Starfish on September 29th, 2009 2:08 pm

i agree with passerby.. i find all these arguments to be more damaging than constructive… to all the christians who want to defend Sun, please please do it with humility .. and to all the christians who want to attack her, please please also do it with humility.. this is so getting out of hand….
A Kiwi on September 29th, 2009 3:11 pm

I find it interesting that people are arguing furiously and typing their comments here till they turn blue (!) while your pastor is tweeting on meeting Pamela Anderson and Miley Cyrus in Hollywood land. Obviously, he’s not going to answer all your questions or address the comments.

By the way, Pamela Anderson was here in NZ for our fashion week and she strutted down the catwalk wearing barely anything except a g-string. That’s how she ended up being on the same flight back to LA with your pastor. Now, she is definitely a woman of the world and bottomline is: sex sells.

If we are not serving Him and furthering His greater purpose, then, everything else we do is futile.

I’m just a quiet observer from Downunder
Modern Day Daniel ? on September 29th, 2009 4:02 pm

@ passerby and starfish…Sad as it appears , the shiites and sunni muslims are still fighting each other, the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland are still fighting and I understand Buddhists also have different camps , those who think it’s ok to eat beef and those who don’t. I guess that’s our human nature at work , lol.

The Kiwi’s observation is interesting – while the article has been creating quite a furore , the writer is tweeting abt Pamela Andersen n Miley Cyrus, lol ….

We should all get a life. so with this , I will stop posting any further. Will look out for your Pastor’s reply to Concerned Parent cos I think the questions are spot on from one parent to another…but I won’t be holding my breath for his reply….

peace out !
TKH on September 29th, 2009 7:32 pm

To Steve Liu,

I think you are jumping to too many conclusions just by watching the MV. You mean you will judge a person just by looking at ONE MV? This is very unwise.

You said “What is RIGHT is RIGHT and what is WRONG is WRONG.” How I wish that this statement could be as simple as you have stated. Correct me if I am wrong, I got the impression that your life is purely composed by right & wrong? Maybe we live in different worlds, cos in my world, there seem to be plenty of “grey areas”… which I regard music as one of these areas.

For your information, many of the great hymns we sang today are considered worldly by thechurch during their era.

What I am suggesting to all is: Let us not be so quick to judge. I fear God, and that is why I am afraid to cast judgement, knowing there is only one Judge ultimately …

God bless!

TKH
7Max7 on September 29th, 2009 8:30 pm

Hi Terence

As much as i have had a certain measure of enjoyment with these debates, other matters are clamouring for my attention, as such, this would be my last post to you on the matter of Orientalism.

As much as i would agree that there are ‘trailing influences’ upon people who are less informed, with the speed of communications, i would feel that the notion would be updated sooner, than “slowly ebbing away”.

As for your example of Obama’s presidential campaign, i would like to point out a critical flaw in your line of argument: “Islam/Muslim are terms referring to a religion, not race”. In this instance, you had confused racial issue of Orientalism with religion.

The 2 issues may be somewhat linked, both are extremely sensitive issues to be discussed, but they are totally separate issues and should not be confused.

As for why Americans are unable to accept a Muslim president, i think you may like to poll Americans on the matter.Or perhaps check with Steve Liu, who had earlier commented and identified himself as an American. I believe that he would be in a better position than myself in addressing this matter

quote:
Islamic fundamentalists often claim to be “Muslim”.
end quote:
I’m not sure if you are aware, the religion is “Islam” and the followers of Islam are known as “Muslim”…

I wish you well and hope the matters thus far had been addressed to your satisfaction. I normally find intellectual debates of this nature excessively taxing and am least keen to indulge my time in such manner… but sometimes, the temptation overcomes my preference to stay away from these matters. Good bye.
7Max7 on September 29th, 2009 9:27 pm

Hi Heart

Revisiting Yee Li’s question:
1. she heard people commenting before that to reach out to the lost we need to talk, dress and act like everyone else…
2. some have been saying that it’s ok to dress really revealingly when occasions calls for it …. But what’s the underlying Biblical principles behind all these?
3. Jesus did ate with the sinners but he didn’t commit sins.

I shall break it down into 3 parts. (tattoos, piercings excluded, since she did not talk about it)

my understanding is that she is uncomfortable with certain style of dresses/dressing.. which is why i ended with the statement:

That said, people, whether man or woman, should be comfortable with what they wear and look presentable and not look sloppy.

The emphasis would be on “as long as she is comfortable with it”.

Where she would probably wish to be part of the group, if they would understand and respect her preferences and accept her as friends, by all means, stay friends, become buddies.

However, if the friends decide to ostracize her for not conforming to a ‘dress code’, perhaps you can tell me if that is considered a rational respond from her friends?

along the line of your post, I do not recall having suggested that her friends be ‘judged’ in any way. If there is any such inferences, i apologize for having caused your misunderstanding.

With that perspective in mind, i am not sure how your question arose, namely:
Not sure – is this the cultural mandate?
7Max7 on September 29th, 2009 10:00 pm

Yee Li

I kinda revisited your post and am deeply apologetic that i had answered hastily and missed the crux of the issue.

1. You heard people commenting before that to reach out to the lost we need to talk, dress and act like everyone else…
2. some have been saying that it’s ok to dress really revealingly when occasions calls for it …. But what’s the underlying Biblical principles behind all these?
3. Jesus did eat with the sinners but he didn’t commit sins.

With regards to point 1, i am somewhat in agreement to it. Yes, dressing the part helps in reaching out to them and ‘talking their lingo’ helps in reaching out to them.

With regards to point 2, would you be referring to dresses that girls/ladies would wear for dances and prom nights? In that situation, there are dresses which are very revealing but there are also options which are elegant and well-tailored, catering to more conservative women which would definitely suit the occasion. I have came across a shop at Bugis Junction that may address this need which you may have.

If you are referring to foam parties or the likes of that, i think the dress code is more or less bikini or 2 piece swimwear for ladies, can someone confirm on that? [I'm kinda "over-age" for that sort of activities *laughs*]

I don’t imagine anyone would consider going to such parties in sweater and jeans…. i really wouldn’t know…

If these answers do not address your questions, perhaps you can seek advice from a lady CGL or ministry leader whom you can comfortably relate to. Face to face communications may be very much more helpful than the written media, which is much more limited.

For point 3, i would like to quote an example with regards to ’speaking their lingo’… For example: since you praise God with your lips, you should not utter profanities.
Since your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, you should not indulge in excesses, meaning, don’t over-eat, don’t drink alcohol to excess (or choose not to drink at all, if you get drunk easily… drunkenness IS a sin).

If you need further guidance, again, i would suggest you check with someone like a lady CGL or ministry leader whom you can comfortably relate to.

As a sidenote, me being a guy, if anyone is interested to know, i DID find it somewhat awkward responding to this question.

Hope this helps! *GRiNZ*
7Max7 on September 29th, 2009 10:09 pm

Hi Kiwi,

In commenting about Pamela Anderson strutting down the catwalk with barely anything but a G-String, you followed by your quip: the bottomline is: sex sells.

I read your post and could not help chuckling at your pun.

*no offense to anyone… the ambiguity of the English language has always been a source of great amusement to me*

On a serious note, i agree with your closing statement:
If we are not serving Him and furthering His greater purpose, then, everything else we do is futile.

That put a lot of things in perspective for me. Thank you!
7Max7 on September 29th, 2009 10:15 pm

Hi Parent

quote:
An innocent 12 year old girl, raging with hormones will also read your blog and be tempted. That is why most people reading your blog on masterbation commented that the post is ‘cool’ and will pass it to all their friends.
end quote:

If any 12 year old girl has a clear idea what masturbation is, i would probably consider her ‘not so innocent’.

That aside, the 45 year old man was mentioned to be married and physically separated from his wife.

I would not consider any teen as ‘possibly married and physically separated from his wife’ at the age of 12.

Hope this had helped to clear the air a little.
Aaron BH Chua on September 30th, 2009 1:19 am

Hi Pastor Kong

Thank you for writing about China Wine and what Sun is doing these past 7 years. I would like to say aloud, great works Sun has been doing. We are so proud of what she was doing and are doing. We will keep supporting her and what she is doing in the music world.

My question is how many people has done what Sun has done so far. Pursuing her dream yet not forgetting about giving back to the communities. To many of us, Sun is a brave lady. How many of us have make more positive and practical impact to the world than Sun? At least not for me, therefore, I’m not just proud but very very proud of Sun.

To end off, just to say, Sun, you are our role model in life. Keep going.
Des on September 30th, 2009 11:31 am

I’m not really a big fan of Sun. But i do support her. She has done great things as a true and great christian.

There are a lot of debates going on here. I do feel that the last thing she would like to see is her own supporters whom she loves, going into argument and debates with people not worth the time spending. I believe she hopes her own supporter accept the people around us as much as we accept her. Lets accept this people who are narrow minded and have shallow thinking. Its not their fault that they are like that.

Before Jesus came pharisees already existed. After he came..they still exist. Let God decide everything and let him judge. Sun is under the covenant and protection of God.

For in Scripture it says: See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. (1 peter 2:6)

Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm (1 Chronicles 16:22)

Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm (Psalm 105:15)

On top of that I really like what Pst have wrote. Thank you pst for all the understanding you have given to the people.
Joshua Chew on September 30th, 2009 12:24 pm

Virtue is innoncence that is tested.

Jesus is coming, stop fighting. We have a world out there to save :)
Joe Tye on September 30th, 2009 1:47 pm

Pastor Kong, You are the modern day Golaith, 3 Cheers for your great courage to speak out !.I’m already 56yrs old,l have seen “youtube”, Sun sangs-China Wine” and I like it very much.It is creative and being true to herself,especially when she is a christian.Christian who condemn her should look at themself & ask themself,is their mind pure?.Just because your mind is not pure,does’nt give you the right to make this an issue.My family & me,we are very proud of her & we are also very proud of “City Harvest Church”,who dare to stand out & make the different.They dont “talk the talk,they walk the talk”.From them shall rise up future generation,who will change the world with their dream & vision.
God bless you Sun,Pastor Khong & City Harvest Church”
Joe Tye on September 30th, 2009 2:10 pm

Pastor Kong,My sincere apology,Your are the modern day “David”
and not “Goliath”. Please forgive me.GBU.
Xiuzhen on September 30th, 2009 4:36 pm

Hi Pastor,

All i could say is that i am so proud of both you and Sun, for having such courage to live out the will of God in your life. When you started on the ‘cultural mandate’ in 2002 and Sun launching out into being a professional pop singer, i saw and witnessed for myself the impact you all have brought. How Sun breakthrough again and again into the billboard charts, breaking records and with her royalties helped many in the different countries across the region. And by the living example of the ‘Cultural mandate’, encouraged many artist and even youths to step out into their dreams again.

Sun and Pastor Kong, thanks for being a living testimony!
RDAP on September 30th, 2009 8:47 pm

I still fail to understand why Christians are so upset about what SUN and Kong are doing. Christian have been doing these for many years which we non-christian will not do.

They have used sex, power, war to convert. This is normal.
Usually it is the business interest.
Kong and Sun a business professional running business empires like Harvest Church MV etc. In business world it common to use sex, religion, power etc. Remember the British Portuguese.

What is wrong in having a sex show in CHC like Thailand. It may get more business. for them.

Christianity has always been this and it will be the same.

But hats off to you guys ….all talk debate of ethics values, modesty ……Makes good joke. I am this is again a planned marketing gimmick to benefit both you guys.

Well as long us you contribute to Singapore economy Like IR it is OK.

I am not falling to your gimmicks. Willl buy her video !!!

Cheers. Next is MV will explicit scene…..Then to some Bible quotes to justify it

I wonder if Your Jesus was a Christian.

Enjoy
RDAP
RDAP on September 30th, 2009 8:48 pm

OPPs….I meant I will not buy your MV…..
I better be careful the con effect is very powerful

RDAP
thiru on October 1st, 2009 2:13 am

some thots think & ponder,talk to jesus in ur time with HIM
think what will Jesus do? WWJD

will jesus go and do things that shames father in heaven??
or does things that glorifies the father heart of God.

lets use this tecnology , smses, etc to edify and build up one another in the Lord .

if anyone is deeply concerned for status of a bro or sis
1.make time to pray interceed for person ur concerned about ask God ,holy spirit to bless them lead them in a right way according to Gods plan and purpose.protect them for harm..etc
2. aviod foolish arguments that casues more arguments,creates disunity..within the body of chrsit.
3. seek always to build up one another in love,
let the Holy spirit to do work in all of our lives
for he is the wonderful counsellor,mighty God,everlasting father ,prince of peace.
4.dont allow enemy to get a foothold ,but we all as believers need to ARISE COVER EACH OTHER IN LOVE AMEN

harvest is plentiful ,labourers are few lets spur one another for goodworks as we see coming of our lord is near
be busy touching lives making a difference.

each of us are accountable to God for his or her actions
so my beloved bros & sis lets stop this vicious attacking
start praying .
jesus moved away from the crowed and went to spent time with the father commune with the father.
eph 6.18 for ur reflections
shalom
TS
benjamen on October 1st, 2009 4:18 am

there is so much irony in your post that i don’t even know where to begin deconstructing your argument and telling you how wrong you are, from whatever points of view, religious, secular, atheist, whatever.

if i am a potential convert looking for a church, rest assured yours will not be under my consideration.
MAN on October 1st, 2009 9:24 am

Hi Kong I am happy you have come out in open.

This proves what we have been saying in India
I am sending your link to all religious sites in India. It showss how deceptive the ways of Christians are. Come you guys to India, Both SUN lovers and bashers I will show how Christians are of low moral values. Sleeping around with each other. Fighting with each other to keep their conversion program. Using every means to convert people to nonsense with the purpose of increasing Business. Net they will say Homo sexuality, Peadofilia is OK as God is inconclusive.

You guys keep your religion to yourselves.

MAN
MAN on October 1st, 2009 9:30 am

Hi Joshua Chew,

What are you saving the world from ?

Joe Tye,
Your post show how you can’t make out between David and Goliath.
He is Goliath. How well you can judge whether he is right or wrong

MAN
JI on October 1st, 2009 10:57 am

” think the struggle many pastors have is the difficulty to separate her association with me (as a pastor’ wife) and her career as a singer. I agree that if she is a “pastor” or “preacher,” perhaps the video would have been inappropriate. But Sun is not a pastor. She is an entertainer. ”

May I ask why if she is pastor or preacher than it would not be appropriate? Are there inappropriate stuff in the MTV that a Christian will not be shown as?

To bring the question further, should there be a different standard of “measurement between a Christian and a pastor/preacher? Does that mean if we are not a pastor or preacher, are we (more) free to do certain things?

And many in here associate Sun as Ps Kong wife or otherwise. Let’s face it, she is Ps Kong wife. This is fact and reality. We can’t separate the fact that she is a pastor wife and a entertainer at the same time. Poor Sun must be torn apart by such fact. I empathized her.

And what is expected of a role of husband, a pastor husband, any diff?
JI on October 1st, 2009 11:07 am

Many viewers may view the MTV without understanding the whole “story” behind…..some people just watched and never go deeper…

Parents who support the China wine MTV, just imagine one day your daughters or son go to Zouk and have her/his body touch all over and behavior like those actress and actors in the MTV. …would be be glad or will you correct them? If you are correcting them, how would you explain the discrepancies of the this China Wine MTV?

We are what we believe in; we are what we worship; we are what we feed on…….
TKH on October 1st, 2009 11:09 am

To RDAP,

I think you have misunderstood Christianity.

If like what you claimed “…used sex, power, war to convert. This is normal. Usually it is the business interest”, Christianity will not be able to last for the past 2000 years. This is because the early church has neither power, money nor ability to make war. (not to mention sex …)

Maybe you can do a bit more research before you comment, else your flaw will be too obvious.

Since you claimed that you are not a believer, I will pray that one day, you will experience the geniune love of God that can change your life.

God bless!

TKH
TKH on October 1st, 2009 11:14 am

To Man,

Your comment does not make much sense … there seems to be a continuity in your comment following an earlier thread, but I can’t find any of your earlier post.

Are you one of those who assume multiple identities in this blog?

I would love to answer your doubts, but can you come forth a little clearer?

God bless!

TKH
TKH on October 1st, 2009 11:23 am

To benjamen on October 1st, 2009 4:18 am

You said, “there is so much irony in your post that i don’t even know where to begin deconstructing your argument and telling you how wrong you are, from whatever points of view, religious, secular, atheist, whatever.”

I can onlysay that there is a lousy excuse from not being able to present your case. You can only say, “this is bad” without the ability to say why.

You said, “if i am a potential convert looking for a church, rest assured yours will not be under my consideration.”

From the statement, I assume you are already a believer, and probably I can assume your church is having a great revival attracting converts like you. That is good. Why not you leave those converts who don’t want to go to your church to other churches, including CHC? : )

If your statement is true, that I’m puzzled why there are still hundreds of non-Christian that joined our services weekly …

God bless!

TKH
Parent on October 1st, 2009 11:34 am

Hi Yee Li.

It is good for you to question. It is good to see how your faith has matured.

Word of God comes through many many Pastors /priests / elders.

As Revend Ho Yeow Sun has turned to become Ex-Reverend Ho, so too does your journey with Christ mature with time.

Stay focussed on Christ. Do not be misled by the record sales pitch, do good by buying the Album to Glorify Lord, save the poor, build churches. Less clothes, more hungry sexy eyes to up sales, cover the cost of booking the whole of Knots berry farm, the cost of the secular businessmen. –

t is really messy once the accounting comes in. Who do you serve? God or the share holders?

There is right and there is wrong. You need to find your path, guided by God.

Many parents are worried by this blog posting and comments. And it needs to be read by more Christian parents.

Twitter by Kong is also fascinating. His Star gazing is so Hip and right up there with the youths who idolise Miley Cyrus, Pamela Anderson.

Move on, if you feel the need to, guided by the Grace of God.
LLWT on October 1st, 2009 11:57 am

Those who don’t agree with CHC or KH would be wiser not to waste time on such blog.

If a person has already fixed his mind that whatever he does is above reproach, the concerned readers/parents who write anything to voice their concern and correction will just fall on deaf ears. I see it as a case of casting pearls in front of swines. If they don’t appreciate the gentle rebuke of concerned readers, let God handle them in His own way. That is why I didn’t bother to explain myself after an earlier posting regarding this posting. Those who have eyes to see can see what’s wrong, those who have ears to hear can hear what’s wrong.

The best is all of you read your Bible for yourself and ask God about His heart in this issue. God won’t compromise His own standard (holiness and purity) to win souls. Don’t mock God by using worldly wisdom or methods to win souls.
Joe Tye on October 1st, 2009 12:49 pm

To Man,
I was thinking Pastor Kong as a spiritual giant.That why my typo error came in! He is trully the mordern day figurative picture who someone bold enough to fight the modern day goliath.Do note my apology for the typo error.
Joe Tye
Melvin Chen on October 1st, 2009 1:23 pm

Hi,

Yes, in the end, we are all accountable to God for our own deeds and words.

The concerns of the 2 conservative parents are understandable. It has not fallen on deaf ears, but truth speaks louder than words.

Take a look for yourself, it has been 2 years since China Wine was released. Has church members gone sex-crazed, transformed into wild party ‘animals’? Absolutely Not, just take a look for yourself.

On the other hand, in the last few years, Sun’s success has inspired and encouraged celebrities in Asia to be both successful in their industry and shining as a testimony for Christ, as a result churches in Taiwan and Indonesia for example has seen over a hundred celebrities coming to the Lord, bringing change and influence into their communities.

Once again, we say, look at the fruits. If you know of anyone who has been negatively influenced, let us know – seriously. Yet, I can show you thousands of people who are positively influenced to do more for their community and their individual professions.

You can’t judge a person just by the role she plays in a music video.

Holiness is not the outward, but what’s inside – the values and character. One can wear a priest’s robe but imagine the dirtiest thoughts, or another can be contemporary, modern, attractive or even sexy you might call it, but have a clean and sound mind, filial, has a healthy strong marriage, etc.

To he one who asked, whether it is serving God or the shareholders, how about when you go to work, who do you serve?

The message of the cultural mandate is to enter into every pillar of society, to be a voice and influence. If you can only serve God within the 4 walls of the church, the gospel can never reach those areas of society. We would be locked up, irrelevant, outdated. The world will not be interested in us and neither will we be interested in the world. That is isolation.
Melvin Chen on October 1st, 2009 1:27 pm

Hi Joe Tye, I do not speak on his behalf, but knowing him, I’m sure Pastor Kong is not offended by a little typo. No worries brother….
Joe Tye on October 1st, 2009 2:05 pm

Hi,Melvin Chen,
Thank you,I’m sure He knows,it is a typo error.That why i supported Sun & Kong vision.GBU.
Worldlywise on October 1st, 2009 2:23 pm

It is so confusing now that a head of a big church uses some bible verses to justify such video a work of Christianity when it is actually some self actualization drive, some narcissistic blend with religion within. Parents or more mature mentors should just take ownership of parenting and guide young people what is good and bad religion. For thousand of years, we know this is bad but suddenly times have changed and now it is called good! When you call something bad good, it can’t be good! ( I am not sure what is the next thing they will call good; I will pay extra attention to it).

Make up our own minds and act wisely. In this case, the arguments are so glib, I honestly find it dangerous for young people. I don’t think it has anything to do with all these doing good but perceived as bad. As a parent, this has nothing to do with old fashion, strict, being hypocritical, open or close minded. I can’t put a finger to it, but when I listen to the messages raving about it, there is something seriously wrong here with the modern churches. Not sure where all these will lead to.
Melvin Chen on October 1st, 2009 3:18 pm

Hi Worldlywise,

I used to think like this, where everything is either black or white, good or not good. It makes a person either praise everything to the top or criticise and condemn that which is considered bad.

But not everything in the world is either good or bad, there are things that are amoral, neither good nor bad – such as fashion, style, music, etc.

Yes, it is certainly important for parents to play a guiding role to their children.
let's call a spade a spade... on October 1st, 2009 5:34 pm

agree with LLWT. No point arguing until the cows come home. Would advise young Christians to follow God, not pastors cos only God has it right. Read the bible for yourselves, pray often. Don’t get carried away or led astray by humans and their justifications. To me, the excuse that it is an “act” and not real does not carry water especially after seeing youtubes of Sun dancing the same way in clubs in the US and on stage in Taiwan; and young girls aping the dance moves in revealing clothes and putting themselves on youtube.

To non-believers , pls look to Christ’s life and his teachings from the new testament or books like Mere Christianity by CS Lewis to understand what Christianity is. Ashamed to say this, but Christians often do get it wrong. That’s why we need God’s grace and forgiveness.

I hope the author and his die hard supporters realise that this article has upset a number of Christians and turned off non-Christians. Stop patronising and calling others “immature”, “impure” or “pharisaic” because they don’t see a modern Day Daniel/ Esther in this music video(s). Madonna and Bob Geldorf give to charity as well but no one compares them to biblical characters.

I suppose I will get slammed by Kong Hee’s die hard fans as others have been slammed. But this comment is in a way an explanation to people like RADP, Benjamen and MAN that Jesus and Christianity is not the issue / problem here. Humans are the problem and we are all human. All religions have their share of good and bad eggs…it’s the people, not the religion that’s at fault…

blessings
joshhoe on October 1st, 2009 5:46 pm

This is not an attack on your ministry or your church – i think christians should be building each other up, not attacking each other needlessly.

That being said, i must disagree with what your saying. While it is important to engage people out there in the world, while it is important that the church doesn’t become insular and closed, so that we may do the work of christ – that is NOT the same thing as the church absorbing and incorporating popular culture and values!

You present only one side – what about all the biblical verses that talk about how as christians we are NOT in the world, are NOT of the world, and are SET APART. In fact, i do not agree that the psalms, job and so on are examples of popular culture in christianity. Sure they deal with common problems of humanity like a search for meaning, like many movies do nowadays, but to say from there that popular culture is part of our christian ministry as a church is a very very very tenuous connection to make!

Again i am afraid you are downplaying the bad parts of the china wine video. Gym clothes? really? Besides the complicated justifications for how it is a “representation of our fallen secular world”, what would any person see looking at the video? A documentary on a mistress, and being cheated on? Or just a thumping rhythm, scanty dresses and even more suggestive dance moves?

I am very impressed with what sun has done in terms of charity, and her contribution to ministry work so far – this cannot be denied, or downplayed. But i am afraid that perhaps your perspective on things is skewed- Engaging popular culture does not mean we have to become popular culture, or tolerate the bad parts of it in our church – for the Lord is strict, and we must not compromise on obedience, that is our utmost duty above all things.

I pray that your ministry and church will continue to bring people to christ, and be guided closely by Jesus.

God bless.
let's call a spade a spade... on October 1st, 2009 7:31 pm

@ Joe Tye on October 1st, 2009 2:05 pm who wrote

Hi,Melvin Chen,
Thank you,I’m sure He knows,it is a typo error.That why i supported Sun & Kong vision.GBU.

rather telling your constant apologies and the use of “He” when referring to your Pastor in the middle of a sentence. I hope CHC members realise that the pastor is only a servant of God. While they should be respected, they don’t need to be held in such high reverance that everything “He” says, goes…hence my worries abt churches that are “personality” based. Follow the word and Christ, not the pastor pls….
SJ on October 1st, 2009 8:03 pm

Very sad to see some of the way things are said here. I am quite sure that, as a pastor, Ps Kong’s intention is not to “take revenge” on those who criticize his wife. He has stated his convictions and, although different ones may argue how solidly they’re backed up by scripture, has blogged why he feels that what his wife has done is alright.

I am saddened to see this become very “us v them”. At the end of it, we will need to stand for our own convictions (and not someone else’s) as best as we can based on our theology. So actually, there is room for some liberty (on both sides!) and understanding. As a pastor, I may not agree with everything a church stands for but, as long as certain fundamentals are right, I am willing to give a little leeway.

I salute Sun for winning the accolades and awards that she has. She has done good humanitarian work and should be recognized as such. Speaking as a pastor, my primary business is summarized in the Great Commission – making disciples of all nations. This must still be my main focus. Humanitarian work is necessary and good but it must never take the place of disciplemaking – THIS is what sets the people of God apart from the world. There is a place for excellence in the arts and the marketplace etc for Christians but only in the context of discipleship. Anything else, and we’ve missed the mark.

I have nothing against CHC but I would say that, in general, you guys will support Sun because she is one of your own. Nothing wrong with that. The unchurched world sees these videos and can’t tell Sun from any other singer. To them, whatever witness she has as a Christian (not a pastor) is lost – simply because they interact with her for 3 mins on a vid or 2 hours at a concert. Could it be that suddenly the salt tastes like everything else? To the unchurched, would they see this vid and see something different? I don’t think so. So how? I think it comes back to convictions.

I pray that we’ll all take some time to interact with God (not just our pastors!) and let the Holy Spirit form our convictions. And when those convictions are different from other peoples, don’t get angry or sharp-tongued. Walk humbly before you God, loving mercy and acting justly.

PS. In saying all this, it doesn’t mean that I have no convictions or thoughts on this matter. Will keep them to myself for now. :-)

May each of you and your churches be blessed by our Father who desires to bless His people!
benjamen on October 1st, 2009 8:51 pm

TKH,

people join this poor excuse of a church because they actually believe in prosperity gospel.

they are easily brainwashed into thinking that by giving to your church they will get good karma, or as your church puts it, god’s favour.

do you seriously think this is a good reason to join a church for?
to get rich?

and i can see how your irony breeds in you. you are extremely fast at jumping to conclusions based on no evidence whatsoever. just because i said if i were a convert, you think i’m sore about people joining your church?

please, i can’t care less who the heck goes to which church.

just because i choose not to display my case here, doesn’t mean that i have no case. but i shall not overestimate your reasoning abilities any further. and the last thing that i wanna do is waste my analytical skills on this haphazardly written prose that contradicts its beginning with its end. all i can say is, anyone who is swayed and converted by your post is not very intelligent to begin with. my girlfriend studying a double major in a top american university right not cannot figure out what is right with your post.

working on the assumption that TKH=konghee, as i suspect because konghee is too incomplete a chinese name and probably the T is his surname.

just because you are a favoured pastor now does not mean that what you are doing is right. you may have started on the right note in your church, a la your wife starting her career in a clean and wholesome manner. but as you subject your followers to the toad in boiling water treatment, just because your people cannot detect the change in your words and style does not mean that what you are saying is what the bible preaches. under your influence week after week, i won’t be surprised if their brainwashed heads cannot figure out what the heck is wrong with your speeches and sermons.

i gotta give you credit though. with your limited linguistic capabilities and reasoning skills you managed to churn out such a long prose. if i were you i would have stopped halfway because i can’t live with posting a prose that is not congruent with itself by the end of it. then again, you may not have realised that you contradicted yourself.
benjamen on October 1st, 2009 8:57 pm

and one more thing, despite konghee’s shaky foundations for hisbeliefs, i am very admirable of the fact that he has decided upon this open forum to exchange with people from the public.

the hypocrisy of sunho has stirred the wrath of many, and to open himself up to their criticisms is a brave thing to do. perhaps sunho should read this and be brave enough to actually justify what she has done. perhaps an FAQ or something.

and to get the ball rolling, i would like to ask:

do you think it’s correct to get the church goers of CHC to buy multiple copies of your CDs with a mug as an incentive?

bear in mind whilst doing this, you maintained your wholesome and non-sexed-up image.

and following that, do you think it is right to sleaze up your act just because you do not require the support from your CHC fanbase now? because you know if you sleazed up at the start no one from church will be able to buy your CDs without feeling uncomfortable?
benjamen on October 1st, 2009 9:07 pm

and hi spademan, i can call you spademan right? your nick is kinda long.

i am a christian and that is why this infuriates me much more than say, a nonbeliever dissing jesus. i have been to myriads of churches and to be honest, the few major ones in singapore are giving christianity a bad name. CHC and new creation, just to name a few. they preach prosperity gospel like it is the most correct thing in the world, despite prosperity gospel facing heavy flak from christian institutions.

not only do they preach it, they use it as a recruitment tool.

and konghee’s desire to engage the “market”. his use of vocab has betrayed his inner desires, that he sees the vast numbers of nonchristians as a “market”, an untapped resource, of what? tithing?

noone uses the word market to describe nonbelievers. if you are an economist and you call people who have not bought your product “the untapped market”, you can be pardoned because you are a profit maximising cold hearted businessman. for a pastor to call nonbelievers market, oh wait. i guess konghee was just being a businessman after all.