The Power of Fasting

December 4, 2009

I have been fasting regularly since 1986. In the early days, I would fast once a week for 24 hours, from 6:00 a.m. on Wednesday to 6:00 a.m. on Thursday. However, since 2004, I have been going on 21-day full fasts once every 6 months. Once, in 2007, I fasted for 40 days.

Many people have asked me, “Kong, why do you fast so often?” This blog is dedicated to that question. There are many wonderful benefits of fasting:

1.	Biological: The physical benefits fasting has toward the body have been so well documented that even non-Christians these days fast regularly for better health. According to World Health Net, a study by researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, shows that regular fasting can reduce risk of cancer, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, insulin resistance, immune disorders, and more generally, the slowing of the aging process, and the potential to increase maximum life span.
	In Japan, “fasting clubs” are now in vogue. A June 16, 2003, issue of Newsweek states that “for decades Japanese doctors have treated obesity, diabetes and some psychiatric illnesses with fasting.”
	During a fast, the body takes the opportunity to eliminate a lot of toxins (harmful substances) that have been built up over the years. The toxins are predominantly stored in fat and mucous cells. The body is “resetting” itself. A common detoxification reaction is headaches. This occurs because the toxins in the blood cause it to thicken and hence cause a headache. A simple remedy is to drink more water or have a bowel movement. In fact, a three-day fast has been used as a standard means of detox recommended by nutritionists the world over.

	In America, it is now common to have a 28-day detox program. Books such as Get Healthy Through Detox and Fasting: How to Revitalize Your Body in 28 Days by Don Colbert, and New Again! The 28-Day Detox Plan for Body and Soul by Anna Selby, describe detoxification plans which remove harmful toxins from the body and revitalize it.
2.	Spiritual: There are a number of very good reasons why we Christians should fast:
	a. Breaking the power of the carnal flesh. Our fallen nature is so tightly linked to the physical appetites of our human body. The more inordinately we yield to our physical drives (such as hunger, sleep, sex), the more we embolden the carnal nature of our undisciplined flesh. Apostle Paul himself was fully aware of the power of the flesh, and constantly disciplined his body “to bring it into subjection” (1 Cor. 9:27). One of the ways he did this was “in fastings often.” (2 Cor. 11:27). As I deprive my body of its craving for food, I am taming my flesh and bringing it into subjection to my spirit. By the end of my fasting period, I often find myself more spiritual, more heavenly minded, more in tune with God, and more sensitive to His voice. In fact, the Scripture records that the reason the church leaders of Antioch were so sensitive to the voice of the Holy Spirit, concerning His plan to reach the Gentile world, was a direct result of prayer and fasting (Acts 13:2).
	b. Self-humbling before the Lord. This is the reason why the saints in the Bible fast (Ps. 35:13). They were reminding themselves that they were weak in their own human strength to achieve the big visions and goals that God had set before them. The spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak (Matt. 26:41). Therefore if our God-ordained dream is going to happen, it must be by a supernatural work of the Lord.
	Fasting heightens that awareness. When I fast, I feel so weak in myself. I can’t workout in the gym. I can’t run five km (three miles) each day. After every service during my 21-day fasting season, I often felt like “crashing.” I would then cry out to the Lord, “Jesus, I can’t do it, please help me by the power of Your Holy Spirit!” God will always give grace to the humble (James 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5).
	c. Increasing the anointing level. Jesus says that certain demons can’t be expelled except by prayer and fasting (Matt.17:21). Last month at the Kuala Lumpur Emerge (our annual youth conference in Malaysia), many commented that the preaching of the Word and the ministry time were some of the best they have ever had. Honestly, I didn’t feel any different. In fact, I felt I didn’t preach too well in a couple of the sessions because I was tired due to my long fast. However, many attendees sent me text messages and emails to say that their lives were so impacted and irrevocably changed. As I reflect on this, I can clearly see that God Himself was doing the work. He had so anointed my voice and let His power flow freely through the laying on of my hands. The presence and power of God made a huge difference in my time at KL.
3.	Revival & Church Growth: In the Bible, whenever the people of God stopped fasting, they became dull and complacent. However, when a fast was decreed, the whole nation underwent revival and deliverance (2 Chr. 20:3-25; Esther 4:16; Ezra 8:21; Jonah 3:5-10). Last month, I fasted and prayed for three specific purposes: (1) 30 percent growth in every pastoral zone, (2) CHC to get its 10,000-seat arena in the city, and (3) my wife Sun to excel in her American singing career. Fasting greatly adds spiritual momentum to my prayer and faith.
What to Do When You Fast? If you have a sickness, if you are pregnant, or if you are a nursing mother, please don’t fast. If you have a history of weak health, please seek medical advice beforehand if you want to fast. If you are on regular medication, please consult a doctor before you fast. If you can’t fast throughout the week, just go for a three-day fast. But please don’t fast intermittently (stopping a few meals, eating a few meal) as this will affect the rhythm of your gastric flow and may hurt your body. Once you start fasting, don’t eat until you have finished the fast. You must drink a lot of water when you fast. Be careful of juices and beverages (such as, coffee) that may give you gastric problems because of the acids they contain. For some people, milk may result in a lot of gas. Yoghurt may cause stomach rumblings, and is generally considered food. The best is electrolytes like 100-Plus, H-2-0, Pocari, et cetera. You need the minerals contained in them during a fast. Drinking clear soup in moderation is good when you need extra energy for work or ministry. Don’t do anything strenuous like run 10 km, house-moving, dance performances, etc. Adopt a commonsense approach to fasting. Brush your teeth often as you will tend to have bad breath (again, due to the release of toxins). I normally carry a toothbrush and toothpaste everywhere I go when I am fasting. Most of all, when you fast, try to start or end the day with a time of deep personal devotion and prayer. Fasting must go with prayer. Otherwise, it is just dieting or a “hunger strike.”
How to Break a Fast?
After fasting, always begin with a light meal, even if you have fasted for only a short period of time. Don’t begin with anything too greasy, fatty or heavy.
The next thing to keep in mind is that the longer the fast, the more gradual it takes to break it. Somebody has said that you must take as long a time to break your fast as you do the period of fasting. When you have fasted for a long time (over three weeks), your stomach becomes like that of a baby’s. Feed yourself after that fast as you would a baby. It may take up to a week to get back to consuming normal food.
When you are in a fast, you usually don’t feel so hungry after the first three days. However, when you start to eat again, your hunger comes back. That is when you must really hold on to yourself. Exercise self-control. Fasting causes your stomach to contract. It is unwise to expand it again to the same extent. Fasting is a great way to change our eating habits, which many of us need to do. However, if you are planning to slim down or reduce your weight, fasting alone will not do that normally. You will get a few kilos off, but you will put them on just as quickly unless you combine it with a changed program of eating and exercise.

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522 Responses to “The Power of Fasting”

Christian L on December 4th, 2009 11:13 am

Dear Pastor Kong,

This is a cogently presented reflection on fasting.

And given that you fast more than anyone I know, you are certainly more than qualified to write about this topic, (not just with theoretical knowledge but with practical understanding and lived experience)

Without a doubt, fasting has numerous overt spiritual benefits, such as that listed by in your blog, and expressed in a smorgasbord of Christian literatures. (just google ‘fasting’ for instance)

However, what is really practical in this blog is your presentation of the biological and health benefits of fasting, demonstrating how this would help us live a strong and fit life to serve God till a ripe old age (very much like your message last week on Caleb).

Nonetheless, as you explicate, the primary motivation for us to fast should always be to draw closer to God, be it to break the power of the carnal flesh, as an act of self-humbling, to increase the anointing.

The health benefits and the prayer requests are ultimately the icing on top of the cake and add to the experience of fasting. In fact, your reflection illustrates the truth that we cannot out-give God, even in the area of fasting. When we ‘sacrifice’ by fasting, God will bless us back through health and answered prayers. Such is the good God that we serve.

The very helpful tips and advice on how to fast and how to break a long fast are both relevant and applicable to me. Witnessing the manner in which you live your life (prayer, fasting and sacrifice), inspires me to do walk in your footstep. Reading your reflections and understanding the reasons for why you do what you do, spurs me further to run the race set before me.

Critics, who obviously are malicious in intent and bent on attacks, would probably find anything they can, (yes, even in an innocuous post on fasting) to criticise and mock. Sad, but perhaps an inevitable part of the broken down world.

I guess at the end of the day, like what you always exhort us to remember, what really matter is the opinion of God and the lives of the many people that you have touched, just like the attendees from Emerge who “texted and emailed …to say that their lives were so impacted and irrevocably changed”.
ed on December 4th, 2009 11:25 am

Pst,

Thanks once again for a great post! I myself am a personal believer in fasting and I try to do it as often as I can. Fasting definitely helps us put our focus back onto God, and it therefore heightens our senses in the spiritual realm.

I believe that Jesus himself showed the power of Fasting when he fasted for 40 days and 40 nights before facing the 3 temptations. Scripture also reveals that Fasting and praying is often linked together (Luke 2:37, 5:33) and the disciples also fasted (Acts 14:21-23).

I think that your discussion on the biological benefits of fasting is also enlightening. The scientific benefits of fasting highlighted by you are truly insightful and it is encouraging to see that the even the “world” has began to see the benefits of fasting.

Your practical tips about fasting is also helpful, as I have never known the value of Isotonic drinks till I read your post. As you mentioned, fasting is not an effective way to diet, as you will eventually put on back the pounds. Instead, it is a way to us to direct our focus back on God.

Thanks once again for your many insights!

Ed
danieljx on December 4th, 2009 11:35 am

Dear Pastor

Thank you once again for another insightful posting.

Fasting is indeed powerful part of the Christian lifestyle which we tend to overlook. As a typical Singaporean, food has always been a ‘big’ part in our lifestyle. Your post on fasting is refreshing and reminds me of the importance of fasting in my walk with God – to humble myself before God (personal consecration) and to discipline my flesh. In your post, more than covering the spiritual aspect, it is an interesting read to find out about the biological benefits to our body i.e. getting rid of the toxins and the resetting of the body. I think this really dispel any myths on the ‘harmful bodily effects’ on fasting.

As you have written down the list of world history changing events in the bible caused by the impact of corporate fasting of God’s people (King Jehoshaphat Queen Esther, Ezra & Jonah), we’re believing with you as more and more of us in the church come together to fast and cry out to the Lord for the various breakthroughs, God’s grace and power will set the course and move our church into a greater level of breakthroughs. Just as in the days of Paul and Barnabas, (Acts 13:1-4) as they planned for their missionary journeys, they fasted and prayed corporately. The Holy Spirit spoke, directed and empowered them on their journeys which changed the course of history till this date.

Pastor, thank you for always leading us by example.
Joy on December 4th, 2009 11:39 am

wow!

This new post came swiftly.

Anyway, I felt your insight on Why bad things happen to good people was flawed in 2 key aspects.

You may want to do another review in your next blog.

God bless.
Patricia on December 4th, 2009 11:58 am

I am conflicted and confused.

I understand you fast so that your wife will have a successful career in USA.

Would that not create more of a ruckus in the Christian Fraternity?

With the dance genre now as it is, we see Gaga going near nude, Rihanna and Beyonce more sexed up, Janet Jackson and Adam lambert going into crotch grabbing and even same sex kissing (like Sun same sex body touching in China wine)

What will this new success of Sun entail?

Unless Sun decides to do a Whitney Houston comeback, all dressed up and with her powerful vocals.

I do wish Sun well, in a most powerful, positive Christlike sense.

Hope Pastor and Sun will pray for enlightenment in their hard and arduous journey.

I know Sun does not have many years left in the youthful pop dance genre, and I personally hope she will ‘not go for broke’ and flaunt more skin.

God bless
- on December 4th, 2009 12:01 pm

Seriously, can we fast and hope for good things to happen to bad actions / bad decisions?
Cal on December 4th, 2009 12:04 pm

dear pastor,

I am really blessed by your entry on fasting.
Its has given me new insight to the topic and practice.
Definitely Fasting will bring us closer to God

Blessing
Cal
- on December 4th, 2009 12:16 pm

And if Sun’s career does not take off like Pastor prays for, does it fall into the category,

When bad things happen to good people?

Or would it be – in hindsight –

When good things happen to good people, because dance genre does not reflect well on a Godly Christlike Sun.
To Joy on December 4th, 2009 12:46 pm

To Joy,

?

And your remarks is inherently flawed.

You attacked without justifying.

Its non-sequitur.
To Patricia on December 4th, 2009 12:47 pm

Don’t worry. She wont.

cheers!
Tweets that mention The Power of Fasting | Kong Hee -- Topsy.com on December 4th, 2009 12:52 pm

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Karen Wong, Calvin Choo. Calvin Choo said: The Power of Fasting by @konghee: http://tinyurl.com/ya52lz9 Its really a great read! =) [...]
To - on December 4th, 2009 1:02 pm

And your point to your rude and cynical comment is?
Nigel on December 4th, 2009 1:13 pm

hey pastor, what a great post!
rara-roma on December 4th, 2009 1:39 pm

[Matt 6:16-18]
16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,

18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

I remembered my CGL used to teach us that when we fast we don’t have to boast about it, and used the verses in Matt 6 that even when we pray go into our secret room and pray. It’s interesting now with the advent of technology, leaders are using Twitter and Facebook to tell the whole world they are fasting within an instant second.

Has our tech world become our ’secret place’? :)
rara-roma on December 4th, 2009 1:50 pm

On second thoughts, no where in the Bible mentions about fasting and prayer as a legalistic MUST-have or MUST-do.

I find it scarily and eerily uneasy to have heard and seen how very top leaders demand everyone of their leaders to FAST and pray.. and for those who are not fasting, they demand an explanation or official excuse. This system seem to flow down to the individual CGLs and thereafter the members level.

Aren’t we making praying and fasting, something that started out to be fun and God-dependent to something that is forcefully demanded and sometimes resulting to being extremely distasteful?
uberVU - social comments on December 4th, 2009 2:53 pm

Social comments and analytics for this post…

This post was mentioned on Twitter by CaLvinnnnnn: The Power of Fasting by @konghee: http://tinyurl.com/ya52lz9
Its really a great read! =)…
DL on December 4th, 2009 2:54 pm

Great post! We often hear about you on a regular fast… Now we understand not just the spiritual benefits but the physical benefits as well! Thank you for the post!
royjunior on December 4th, 2009 2:54 pm

Thanks for bringing the seemingly abstract and usually unclearly defined topic that is fasting to us in a way that is simple, practical, and understandable. You really brought this topic out to us in a “less is more” mindset, which I find straight to the point and yet is more than adequately sufficient. Coming from the person who fasts much more than anyone I know, who breaks his flesh more than anyone I know, you are the most competent person to speak on this matter. :) So blessed.
Cassie on December 4th, 2009 3:01 pm

Dear Pastor,
ur post truly motivates me to fast even more!
I’m believing together with you that CHC will grow to 30,000, we’ll find a new land and Sun’s career too!

Take care Pastor! :)
to rara-roma on December 4th, 2009 3:08 pm

are you sure about the top leader forcing the leaders to pray and fast? well, as far as i know, unless ppl point a gun to your head, they cant force you to do anything that you do not want. i am not from chc but your claim seriously made me laugh.
Jia on December 4th, 2009 3:10 pm

Wow pastor! With this, i know how to share with my friends why we fast. Thanks! Im excited for my 7 day fast now! :)
rara-roma on December 4th, 2009 3:13 pm

to rara-roma on December 4th, 2009 3:08 pm

are you sure about the top leader forcing the leaders to pray and fast? well, as far as i know, unless ppl point a gun to your head, they cant force you to do anything that you do not want. i am not from chc but your claim seriously made me laugh.

—————–

Do you actually want it to come to the stage of pointing a gun?

Sometimes the feeling of condemnation of NOT being able to fast, the feeling of GUILT incurred unto a person is far worse than a pointing a gun, which finishes any emotional dread at the squeeze of a trigger.
Twitted by eradianto on December 4th, 2009 3:20 pm

[...] This post was Twitted by eradianto [...]
sher on December 4th, 2009 3:25 pm

am encouraged to fast n pray more. believe for breakthroughs in many areas!

thk u, pastor
RY on December 4th, 2009 3:31 pm

Hi Pastor, thanks a lot. I learn quite a number of things every time I read your blog. The more I read your blog, the more I found that religion and science can really work well together. They are both dependent upon one another.
to rara-roma on December 4th, 2009 3:44 pm

if you believe right, you will live right.

this post is supposed to be an encouragement for ppl to pick up a habit of fasting. it’s not a demand. but if u wanna think it that way, feel free to do so.
jermaine on December 4th, 2009 3:46 pm

Pastor,

thank you for letting us know more about fasting!
it gave me more knowledge on what i should do when i fast.
it really gives me more drive and motivation when i fast this week.
thanks!
to raro-roma on December 4th, 2009 3:56 pm

Pls, dont be so mentally weak and so weak in your personality

If u don’t want to fast….don’t fast…period!

Don’t impose your flaws upon us, and make the rest of the chritian world so weak and pathetic.

If u don’t fast – stay happy and don’t fast. And don’t turn around and say people condemn you.

Like what was stated earlier – this is just a simple post to encourage people to have good spiritual habits!
rara-roma on December 4th, 2009 3:56 pm

Thanks to “unknown” for your reply.

It has certainly speaks straight into my belief system. Thank you so much.

Btw, i was referring not just to this blog post, but because i have felt constrained under the system in my church too, whereby religious leaders have put a demand on the members to fast and pray. Perhaps we just can’t flow with the leaders’ good intentions.
7Max7 on December 4th, 2009 3:57 pm

hi Pastor, thanks for the blog entry! I have been thinking of fasting, but had problems as i was throwing up and having stomach cramps… I’ll take your guidelines here and try again! thanks Pastor! GBU!
rara-roma on December 4th, 2009 4:02 pm

to raro-roma on December 4th, 2009 3:56 pm

Pls, dont be so mentally weak and so weak in your personality.

——————

I read a recent extract of a highly-esteemed man of God’s blog:
“When we talk about strength, it is the Lord’s strength we are talking about, not our own carnal abilities. When we talk about being strong as it is in the Lord we are strong and his strength as we take part of. And when we feel weak, we can actually boast about our weaknesses, 2 cors. 12: 8-10, for his grace and blessing will force us to part, because of who he is and what he has done for us on the cross. Not what we are. Those who boast, he boast of the Lord.”

Thank you for pointing out my weakness. I can celebrate and boast in my weakness.

If I am weak, He is strong.
Faithzzy on December 4th, 2009 4:24 pm

Dear Pastor, THANK YOU FOR posting this blog…i have been trying to fast but fail… What an indepth to fasting. Thanks for being such and inspiration to me…=)))) Will try to fast more from now on.
sunil on December 4th, 2009 4:35 pm

DEAR PASTOR KONG,
THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING ABOUT FASTING , GREAT THAT YOU FAST EVERY YEAR, GOD BLESS YOU. SUNIL.
limcheek on December 4th, 2009 4:39 pm

Hi Pastor

Thank you for yet another educational and meaningful blog!

This gives me a greater motivation to fast and pray to seek God! I can use your teachings to educate new Christians about Fasting too!

Thank you again pastor!
Ruben Potter on December 4th, 2009 4:51 pm

Dear Pastor, that was really a great post, and it not only clarified a lot of my doubts, but also taught me some new things such as your note on toxins causing bad breath.. I never knew that!

Just on a personal note, I have been blessed by every single blog post you’ve ever written, and I just want to say that no matter what people who simply have nothing better to do attack you, the whole Church can really see the great things that the Lord is doing through you, and I just want to say that “for me and my cell group, we will serve the Lord and walk BESIDE you”.

God Bless you Pastor, Sun & Dayan, and hope you get back to your normal eating habits soon!

Lots of Love,
Ruben Potter
BBG 16
happyman on December 4th, 2009 5:39 pm

Jesus is our best role model . i think Pastor Kong , you are like a walking Jesus to me and a great spiritual Father . well , if you are healthy and have no medical issues , fasting is great , but unfortunately i cant fast due to hazardous medical issues. i am alr super underweight .. Medical doctors do not advise me to fast. Some ppl think that you need to fast so that you can get annointing powers..

i think if the motive to fast is to get supernatural powers.. i think the person has just miss the point.. lol
MyNameIsAhHuat on December 4th, 2009 6:31 pm

Real GOOD post boss.

Noticed there are the same familiar ‘goats’ following you in every blog trying to butt you off the Gospel Road. Your sheeps trust you. But these ‘goats’ got no faith. Maybe you should ask Pastor Sun to come back when she is free-er and sing some solid Gospel worship and praise songs to show that she hasn’t ‘lost’ it yet – that China is still waiting for CHC.

Then these ‘goats’ hopefully, can feel at peace and return to their respective herdsman. A lot of us are geting annoyed with their unconstructive , disruptive, out-of-context, rude and malicious remarks about CHC , their very personal attacks on you and wife.

Their remarks do not edify the church, or seemed educational to anyone of us but cause strife among Christians. It does not give God any Glory but smears the annointed of Christ. Here, we are not referring to unchurch people but our supposedly bro and sis of Christ from different denominations – instant rage and character assasinations (like violent crazies over small differences of interpretation).

People can have different perceptions of a certain bible passage but that doesn’t give them the licence to gun others down. In fact we should have the gentle spirit to prompt/enlighten others when they don’t see a point or miss out a small portion in the understanding of a certain bible story or parable. The suppose-to-be discussions instead turns to ‘bloodbath’ pulling in unrelated family member – whose actvities they cannot agree with.

But then again none of these so called righteous christians dare to put ther full names and address down and call Madonna the same labels, given that they all know her history already.

China Wine erotic? I don’t think so. MJ erotic ? They say no. If China Wine is erotic, as Christians and by the same measure they use – their husbands, wives, sons and daughters should not be watching it – and better not go to swmming pools too, lots of bikinis and speedos. Certainly no discos for all. Maybe the hidjab would be a good adoption for them too.
iDestinee on December 4th, 2009 6:34 pm

Thank you Pastor for such a wonderful post!

It has cleared some of my doubts that I used to have, as well as learnt new things from here! It is also a very good way of showing the world as to why Christians also fast (that’s why many of my friends do ask).

Once again, thanks you for all the entries that you have posted as all have been so encouraging and enriching! I’ve been really blessed by your blog!

God bless you Pastor Kong, Sun and Dayan!
Loves,
Karmen.
michaellow on December 4th, 2009 9:27 pm

Dear myname is ahhuat ahhhh! You got say “Their remarks do not edify the church, or seemed educational to anyone of us but cause strife among Christians.” I know you for sure oso got include me in this remark lah. You oso got say to me “goat blitz you” in post in on other blog. BTW hor, which goat you got refer to ahhh? Is Baphomet si boh? Ehhhhh why you ask favour from goat to blitz me ahhhh! Ahhuat, you got pray to God or to goat ahhh??? David got ask God to blitz his enemies tio boh? Why not you pray to God like David got pray for protection from enemies in Psalm 35. This Psalm your lautar got again quote out of context down here. I got see his error many times here ahhh. Quote verse to make statement then make conclusion that got no context or exposition.

That is what happens when get fast-track theological degree. Others take 3 years for MDiv but your lautar take 2 years. Others got take at least 4 years for Doctor of Theology degree so your lautar bery special hor? Two years oni enough to get Doctor of Theology? First time I got hear two years can get Doctor of Theology? Some more from college with no faculty and no campus, oni mailing address. Oso college which can promise customized degrees. What is meaning of customized ahhh? Two years how to reflect and know what Bible is saying. Doctor of Theology must be able to can read Gleek and Hebrew tio boh? Some more my pastor got say he oso must study German because most theologians in past got come from German people. Like I oso got say before , like that means oni got linguistic ability to read Bible but lack literary ability to interpret Bible.

Donch have to take my word OK? If you got open mind anytime can ask PHD lecturer from any other theological college or from other churches, to see if I got make correct statement. But please must ask PHD lecturer who get PHD from real college with campus and library and qualified faculty OK? Donch ask those who got get postgrad degrees online.
apple on December 4th, 2009 10:25 pm

Another hilarious act of Ps Kong. Already violated the rule of fasting set by Jesus (our spiritual act to be done in secret but here this man is showing off via tweeter and facebook status update). Bible says not to make a hooha about it but this pastor is going everywhere and announcing his good deeds for all to hear.

[Matt 6:16-18]
16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,

18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
CYNTHIA to APPLE on December 4th, 2009 10:55 pm

Dear apple:

The fact that JESUS’ fasting is EVEN RECORDED in the BIBLE … you mean to tell me that Jesus’ fasting was in secret, and no one knew about it? If the disciples had not known about it, how was it even recorded in the Bible then?

The purpose JESUS told us not to be like the hypocrites, fasting and appearing to men to be doing so, was to teach us not to be like the Pharisees, who wanted everyone to know their spirituality.

Is that Pastor Kong’s intention? Definitely not. ANYWAY, who are you to judge his intention? It doesn’t seem to me that he fasted to “display” his spirituality.

On the contrary, his fasting and dependence on GOD had even inspired countless others (myself included)to start seeking God more.

I wish you well.
FearGod on December 4th, 2009 10:59 pm

Dear michaellow, raro-roma, apple,

It is obvious that your intention is to cricticize every post that Ps Kong made. And you are bringing back issues which are not relevant to the blog. And I have noticed that the tone of most of your comments are harsh and judgemental, which is against the attitude of love in the Bible.

I would like to encourage you guys to really search your heart, because I think you have come to a conclusion in your mind, even before you read the content.

If you are trying to convince people that your views are correct, I think you are wasting your time …

Please … for your own soul sake, watch your own words, which you must give an account in judgement day …

I pray for your souls …

FearGod
TKH on December 4th, 2009 11:03 pm

Dear Pastor,

Another great post! More than teaching the Word, you are living by example on what you have taught …

To the critics, maybe you can practice what the blog suggest before you cast your comments?

To the rest of the readers, I think the intention of the critics are obvious, regardless what Ps Kong post, they have decided to “pick the bone within an egg” (a chinese saying) … May the Lord help them ….

God bless …

TKH
JC on December 4th, 2009 11:06 pm

Dear michaellow,

I wondered where you got your theological education? Maybe if you are open, you can share with us?

Else it is difficult to convince the rest in your arguments … Honestly, you sound like hot air to me … : )

JC
Grateful on December 4th, 2009 11:08 pm

Dear Pastor,

Thanks again for such a comprehensive article …

I am really blessed and inspired to cultivate a lifestyle of fasting in consecrating myself to the Lord … thanks also for being such an example …

May the Lord continue to lead you to greater breakthrough …

Grateful
stargazing on December 4th, 2009 11:13 pm

Dear Pst,

Thank you for this post!

Recently, i have been thinking about this verse.

“Imitate me, as I imitate Christ.”

Truly your life has been such a inspiration to us all, and as you exemplify the message, we are all challenged to learn from you.

Thank you for challenging us with your life to be more spiritual!

Love,
xting
Kelvin Tan on December 4th, 2009 11:17 pm

Dear Pst!

Thank you for the Post!
I myself have been very encouraged and inspired by you to fast and seek God more. You are really my role model ( To the critics: At no point in time had i ever felt compelled to fast!!!!)

To the pure all things are pure.

Pst can write about prayer, and you guys will say that he is forcing people to pray and condemning those that are not praying.

Pst can write about reaching the lost, and you will complain that he is only concerned about building a megachurch.

Pst can write about health and healing and you guys will say that this is a “faith” doctrine (which by the way, is the basis of our christian life – yet many will also fight this).

Pst can write about about the cultural mandate, and you guys will say that he is worldly.

And with fasting, you guys criticize again.

My conclusion is that you are just critical … having the “form” but not the power.

All the best. God bless. And may you renewed your mind and put off the old wineskin.
CC on December 4th, 2009 11:25 pm

To all the naysayers:

I am truly amazed how you almost “make a living” out of being critical, throwing judgments, making yourself judges, assuming you are always right …

In the first place, have you considered your own lifestyle, before you even casted your first stone?

And please do a google on Fasting & Christianity … tell me when you don’t find any men of God writing about fasting, based on their own experiences … (SO, they are flaunting about their fasting lifestyle?)

You obviously do not tell the difference between fasting to gain people’s attention vs. fasting as a way of life and encouraging others to do so too …

HEY: Pastor Kong has been fasting since 1986. He has every right to share what he knows about this topic. AND only if you have fasted as long, then please write on this too, or even comment about it.

IF not, please …

Your comments are ridiculous.
Parenting Guru on December 4th, 2009 11:27 pm

Great post pst!

I personally feel that the post are very encouraging! and a thumbs up to u for always engaging in topics that are revelant.

Been browsing through the different articles, and I think that 2-3 people seem to have an agenda against you. I can’t believe it when they can even take issue about a blog post about fasting.

You should try writing a post about the importance of reading the bible and having a quiet time! I am sure that they will also have a lot of negative comments as well!
Orange on December 4th, 2009 11:27 pm

Reply @ apple
apple on December 4th, 2009 10:25 pm

Another hilarious act of Ps Kong. Already violated the rule of fasting set by Jesus (our spiritual act to be done in secret but here this man is showing off via tweeter and facebook status update). Bible says not to make a hooha about it but this pastor is going everywhere and announcing his good deeds for all to hear.

[Matt 6:16-18]
16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,

18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
_________________________________________________

Hi apple,

I’m orange. Anyway, it would be really great if you could read the whole post before posting baseless opinions and slanders.

Right at the beginning at the second paragraph, it is already written:

“Many people have asked me, “Kong, why do you fast so often?” This blog is dedicated to that question. There are many wonderful benefits of fasting:”

So I don’t really know where you get the idea that he is showing off, making a big hooha and announcing his good deeds for his own personal interests?

And if you’re thinking of rebutting with “How do people ask why does he fast so often if he doesn’t tell people?”, then please refer to cynthia’s post where she has already explained everything.

Thank you and have a nice day.
Orange. (ok not really)
DJ on December 4th, 2009 11:35 pm

Dear Ps. Kong,

Your blog is a very comprehensive, clear and balanced presentation on the subject of fasting. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with all of us.

For the record, I have been attending CHC for more than 10 years and never once has anyone ever forced me to fast or do any other spiritual discipline for that matter! The balanced Word of God has always been preached and it is for the individual to work out their response to what has been taught.

And to set the record straight, I have personally been blessed through the years as I have chosen to fast out of my own free will. I have attended many different CGs and meetings and no one has ever tried to force me to do anything and certainly not to fast (don’t think it is even possible as no one is with you 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week).

For the naysayers, please get your facts straight. If you what you claim is really true (which I doubt), why don’t you feedback to the Church Pastors and they would certainly take action?

Keep the blogs coming Pastor!

Truly blessed and encouraged,
DJ
stumbled upon on December 4th, 2009 11:36 pm

Wa…write about how we should fast and about own experiences also cannot!

Cannot believe these people…next time can only write about other people’s experiences…. it seems when u write about own experience…kena whack only!

Pst Kong….I feel for u…these pple are so unreasonable! totally uncalled for man!

I also kay po, went to google this michael low. Eh… are you from Far Eastern Bible college? R u their spokesman?
To michaellow on December 4th, 2009 11:50 pm

Interesting thoughts you have.

Why don’t we continue the discussion at YOUR blog.

At least have the guts to let us know who you are (and to stand by your bravado)

Your supporters (if they are not imaginary and you in impersonation) could also better rally around you.

For all your criticisms of him, Pastor Kong is at least brave enough to stand by his opinions.

The big question is, ARE YOU?

Or would you prefer to shrink back, hide behind a pseudonym, and throw stone from the dark.

Your actions, if I may, put you spectacularly into the class of what we call, cowards.

Step out into the light and lets spar as gentlemen.

Or perhaps that is too much I can ask of you.
Lian on December 4th, 2009 11:51 pm

Like that also can? People fast also get wacked?! Cannot tell anyone meh? You loose weight and face is sunken, people sure will know right? Wait people think you kanna got a sickness like the Steve who? from Apple company? So how, supposed to lock yourself in a secret place and don’t come out?!

So RIDICULOUS!

Maybe michaellow, raro-roma, and apple should try to fast too? But don’t say I force you hor!

Lian
Christian L on December 4th, 2009 11:53 pm

Dear michaellow, raro-roma, apple,

True enough you have manifested once again.

Obviously you are malicious in intent and bent on attacks, and you would probably find anything you can, (yes, even in an innocuous post on fasting) to criticise and mock.

Sad, but I must add that I am disgusted by you guys.

Where is that basic grace and respect for others?
Angel Wong on December 4th, 2009 11:56 pm

I think for the next post, Pastor can just write a line.

“I am happy.”

And I am sure our jolly gang of michaellow, raro-rama and apple can find something to criticise too!

Hahah!

Mad.
MyNameIsAhHuat on December 4th, 2009 11:57 pm

Pastor Kong YOU are so cool! You preached by revelation and certainly full of annointing by the Holy Spirit. You are the Man-of-God of this generation. The steps of a righteous man is ordered by the Lord. The world looks at Qualifications but God looks for obedience and servanthood. Hallelujah..blessed are you, Amen.

Oh I forgot, goats are not capable of peace and are only capable of Re-BUTT-tals beaa-eh-eh-eh-hek, beaa-eh-eh-eh-hek, beaa-eh-eh-eh-hek. It doesn’t have revelation. It eats garbage and shits everywhere it goes. Its body odour stinks and wherever it threads people avoid it. It has got no followers but treats almost all the others like competitors for the garbage it heaps up. Yuks.
JH on December 4th, 2009 11:58 pm

Dear Pastor:

Thank you for your blog. Through your experience, I’m reminded again the IMPORTANCE OF FASTING and PRACTICAL STEPS TO FASTING.

To Michael Low, Apple, raro-roma:
Is there anything wrong with sharing a personal experience? And with it, biblical principles?

Please, is that an avenue for you to shoot your accusations?
Are you using this blog and the fact that comments are freely published without the need for site administrator’s approval to “air your grievances”? And mind you, I’m putting that very mildly across.

It’s strange when each of you take turns to make a personal attack, bring in unrelated issues. And you all are able to quote scriptures, and list personal interpretations, which of course we can easily assume that you are of the Christian faith!

Please for goodness sake, stop this slamming in a Pastor’s blog, in a post that is simply just teaching others Fasting.

Certainly, your agenda for coming to this blog is questionable. It’s ridiculous when finger pointing and baseless accusations are made each time you make a comment.

Peace please.
Gordon on December 5th, 2009 12:03 am

Haha Angel!

Well said.

I am sure that even if Pastor would to write “God is Good” our dear mikely & friends will criticise.

I vote that they were put up to it!

The question is, who is the chief puppeteer?
Sigh on December 5th, 2009 12:06 am

errr… if you look at the exchange below between – & To – at the other page,

I think the answer is clear.

REVENGE!

sigh…

# – on December 4th, 2009 5:09 pm

Who is Pastor Kong to call other Pastors “Cheap Grace Preachers?”

Who is Pastor to cast Sun this way “The unchurched throughout Asia loves Sun and views her as an exemplary model to the youths of society”

Was a vote taken?

This is not a rhetorical question.
# To – on December 4th, 2009 5:37 pm

You have not answered my question.

Interestingly, under provocation, you have revealed your true motivation.

So, it seems that its about revenge for you isn’t it.

Tsk.
Sweety on December 5th, 2009 12:11 am

This is such a great post! I am so challenged to start fasting once again and to make it a regular lifestyle. Pst, don’t worry about the naysayers. Your blog has been such a tremendous blessing to true Christians that are really wanting to learn more about the things of God.
I simply don’t understand why would there be such people who love to critcize every of Ps Kong’s post and yet they still continue to come and read his post every week. Weird right? Ha x 2!!
To the naysayers, if you don’t feel that this blog is beneficial to you, you don’t have to visit it or read the posts. Cos the purpose of why Ps Kong writes is not for you to attack him … it’s to benefit those that want to be benefitted. Get it? :)
Zephyrina on December 5th, 2009 12:12 am

This is certainly an act of terrorism where mikey and friends hijack a blog and attack it maliciously and insanely.

Mikey & friends, perhaps we should not fight with you.

It seems that there is truth in the saying, ‘why get into fights with pigs, you get all dirty and they enjoy it.”

Mikey & friends seem to be enjoying this attacks… perhaps we should rise up above them.
dy on December 5th, 2009 12:12 am

Hello Pastor, Thanks for writing this post and sharing your thoughts on Fasting. After reading this, I have a clearer way to approach fasting. Certainly looking forward to a stronger spiritual life, more breakthroughs as we humble ourselves to God. Thanks again for always leading the way all these years. I’ll always be cheering you on! Love, dy
Gordon on December 5th, 2009 12:15 am

Haha.. Zephyrina,

I only got one thing to say…
They started it.

And every self-respecting Christian whose life has been impacted by Pastor Kong’s ministry should rise up and NOT stand for their nonsense.

I would not stand for any idiots slandering my Pastor and imagining that they can get away.

TO ALL who reads this blog. Don’t just read.

WRITE in, even if one short line, and be counted.

Let the critics know that they who are with us are more than they who are against us.
Zephyrina on December 5th, 2009 12:17 am

Hi Gordon.

Got it. I understand what you mean.

PASTOR KONG! GREAT BLOG! Thanks for impacting my life with your teachings.

Regardless of the mean accusations, know that Sun and you have made a tremendous difference in my life.

And no one can deny that!

It is my life!
Angel Wong on December 5th, 2009 12:20 am

Ditto~ Gordon!

Thanks Pastor for being brave enough to take a stand on controversial topics.

You are my hero.

My life has been totally turned around since I joined City Harvest Church.

I have never felt a closer relationship with God. Thank you for teaching me how to live a good Christian life and to be in the world but not of the world.
Honda on December 5th, 2009 12:25 am

Pastor, thank you for a great sharing on fasting.

To the critics who say that when we tell people that we are fasting is actually showing off… I just checked my Bible and it recorded that:
1. Queen Esther fasted and she told everybody she is fasting. (Est 4)
2. When the disciples of John the Baptist fasted often, Jesus’ disciples knew about it… I guess somebody must have told them. (Lk 5:33)
3. Paul told everyone that he was often in fastings (2 Cor 6:5; 2 Cor 11:27)
4. Prophets like Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, wrote about their fastings experiences.

So, shall we conclude that these guys “are flaunting about their fasting lifestyle”? I don’t think so.

So to all the critics, don’t pass judgement too quickly.
Hugo on December 5th, 2009 12:27 am

Hello! Why is there a need to attack such a pure post? Ps Kong was just merely sharing his own experiences in fasting to encourage more to share in the benefits of fasting. If you think that Ps Kong merely want to brag and share openly about his fasting practices for wrong intentions, then you are absolutely wrong! Because if he hasn’t written this post, you would never have knew that he has been fasting so regularly! Even my friends who attends CHC only knew that he was fasting last weekend when he was already close to the end of his 21-day fast. So did he go around and tell people everyday that he is fasting?! Of course NOT, right?! Come on, give him a break!
And if you don’t agree with fasting practices, then you don’t fast lah. Stop posting such negative and critical comments on this blog, please!
Leila on December 5th, 2009 12:28 am

Hi Pastor!

What a great post! I am truly impacted by the honest and open way you share how you find breakthrough through fasting… And for sharing with us the specific areas you are fasting for. It inspires me to fast for specific areas in my life as well!

To those that feel (as you put it) ‘condemned’, that feeling does not come from this post as this is definitely an uplifting and encouraging post! I can only think that that condemnation comes from your own feelings, which should never be felt as God’s word only brings conviction and not condemnation.

I cannot think why you feel that such an encouraging post, a mere sharing of a real-life example of breakthrough makes you feel that way. It is NOT forcing/demanding of us anything. Pastor’s post shows us the ‘how’ and the ‘why’ which is useful to those who may wish to fast and yet not know ‘how’ to. How can a ‘how-to’ and ‘why-to’ be considered demanding or condemning?

Personally, I have never been ‘forced’/'demanded’/'coerced’ to fast. It has been something personal for me and remains so.

While Jesus does say we do not fast to be seen by men, Pastor’s post is definitely not seeking after praise for fasting in any way at all! Rather it seems it is to simply share a testimony about the breakthrough he has experienced through fasting. It is a word to share to encourage us. Also he mentions how he felt that his preaching (during the fasting period) was not exceptional, and yet GOD’s grace was with Him. His post glorifies God’s work and hence encourages us to fast as well. :)

Thank you Pastor once again for such a great post :) Am encouraged, inspired and impacted as always :)
The Power of Fasting… on December 5th, 2009 12:34 am

[...] Continued here: The Power of Fasting… [...]
albert on December 5th, 2009 12:35 am

Hi Pastor,

Great blog! You have a great ministry, and I totally support what your wife is doing.

God bless
To Patricia on December 5th, 2009 12:47 am

Dear Patricia,

Quoting you,

“I understand you fast so that your wife will have a successful career in USA.

Would that not create more of a ruckus in the Christian Fraternity?”

Hmm, how is pursuing one’s dream wrong? And I think that every little thing seems to somehow cause a ruckus in the Christian community … Sadly, it’s always the religious (overly religious actually) ones who have a lot of negative thing to say.

“I know Sun does not have many years left in the youthful pop dance genre, and I personally hope she will ‘not go for broke’ and flaunt more skin.”

I’m not sure about your intention and your comment. I’m confused by you too.

Is there anything wrong to dress fashionably? I certainly hope you don’t wear sleeveless, halters, etc. yourself …

Holiness is inward. Why must everyone “box” Sun into their “ideal image” of themselves? I know of many who dress totally conservatively, yet they aren’t holy people. How do you reconcile that?
just a reader on December 5th, 2009 12:57 am

Hi patricia

With regards to Sun , I think that Pst has made it very clear that it is simply a story and simple pop entertainment.

A christian can play many roles in a video, and china wine is just a role that she plays.

In a hip-hop scene, we also do not expect to see the austrian waltz or the russia ballet. If u look at the dance moves in the mv, they are also considered mild.

As u come from a more traditional background, I can understand your concerns but i believe that as she continues to do good, her works will speak for herself.
*) on December 5th, 2009 1:04 am

Thanks pastor, for this practical yet spiritual topic. I am very encouraged to start depending more on the Holy Spirit by humbling myself to fast … and to mix it with prayers. At the same time, your practical advices help heaps! I appreciate your wisdom that’s put into words :)
Encouraged on December 5th, 2009 1:09 am

I must say that fasting is an aspect that is often left out in a Christian’s lifestyle. Thank you Dr. Kong Hee for addressing this issue.

I believe in the power of prayer with fasting.

I pray that your breakthroughs will come too!

Thank you for always being so willing to share so openly. This has blessed my heart tremendously.
Selwyn Lye on December 5th, 2009 1:11 am

Great read from you Pst Kong! I always enjoyed reading your postings and know that every thing that you post would be based on biblical principles. Do be assured that even though others may dislike your posts or actions, you can rely on us to be your support!

For the nay-sayers, i strongly urge you NOT to follow his posts anymore if you find it against what you believe in. Why bother creating so much unhappiness for yourself?
Cal on December 5th, 2009 1:18 am

Dear rara-roma, Apple and all the rest who got nothing better to do =)

This post is about Fasting and its Benefits, plus the Dos and Don’ts about it. Which part of it is boasting about fasting? This is really absurd, Taking things out of context.

And to say we’re being forced to fast? Fasting how to force? 24-7 monitor the body weight and monitor if any food intake meh? haha so funny. unless, you’re monitoring a person every second of the day, how to force a fast on a person. One has to be willing to fast man.

I am so amused =)

but on the flip side! Pastor! kudos to you on a great post!
I’m so blessed :)

Cal
albert on December 5th, 2009 1:20 am

Hi Everyone,

Don’t let the voice of critics affect our joy and peace in our spiritual walk with God. Lets keep a great attitude, and continue in prayer and fasting as pastor has encourage us.

I am blessed to be a part of CHC and my life has been impacted greatly.

I used to attend a church with an antinomianistic tendency, thinking that if I just focus on Jesus and forget about my sins, it will disappear by itself.

But I learn from direct experience that unless we deal head on with our sins and weaknesses, it will not go away.

Sins does not disappear just by ignoring it, but by praying against it, relying on the power of God.

One thing that CHC and pastor Kong teaches me is to be serious with my life and my walk with God. Praying and fasting is so important. Lets take it seriously.

Let’s don’t assume that victory comes effortlessly. Jesus himself resisted temptation until he sweat blood.

Thanks pastor to inspire us to fast even more!
birthday-girl on December 5th, 2009 1:26 am

Hehe, it’s kinda funny to see all sorts of comments flying here and there. I personally feel that this was a good blog post. Many Christians may feel a little lost about the things of the Bible. The Bible talks about praying and fasting, but never specificially give a structure, a fixed rule of fasting. 3-day fast, 40-day fast… that’s the beauty of God, He doesn’t force you to salvation, nor to fasting… He strongly encourages, desires us to do so, but He never forces it upon us. and that’s how we should view it: respect people, whether they fast or not.

Pst did a great job in giving us an example of how he fasts, and it’s honestly up to us to follow or not. As long as your fasting and praying glorifies God and humbles you, who cares about what the others think? it’s YOUR personal walk with God after all.

To those discussing about Sun, this blog entry is about fasting, so at least, STICK to the topic ^^

birthday-girl
lambert on December 5th, 2009 1:33 am

Hi all,
for those who are vehemently responding to the blog (which i’m a firm supporter of) would appreciate if anyone can edify me on the tweets below?

Super Peking duck but can’t eat … one more day of fasting! Woohoo

Dayan cooked this hamburger on his own for his papa. But papa is still fasting :(

Finally broke fast today. Did Gym for an hour. Life is good :)
12:51 PM Dec 1st from TwitterBerry

I can’t help but to feel that if it sounded like a routine? Or it seems like fasting for the sake of fasting?

Please help me as I always struggle with the temptation of food especially when I try to fast and I would love to join the church into a week of fasting and prayer.

Thank you.
Cynthia To Lambert on December 5th, 2009 1:44 am

Dear Lambert,

I guess you got to “interpret” Pastor Kong’s sharing and tweets correctly? First of all, he is as human as us … certainly, he feels hunger after days of fasting, what’s more, 21 days.

And even Jesus’ hunger during His fasting period was recorded in the Bible :) Pastor Kong is just being real, and was just sharing his day to day happenings on Twitter … It certainly did not sound like he was “fasting for the sake of fasting”. It is clear that he fasted in spite of great hunger because of a greater hunger for breakthroughs and spiritual things :)

I am also a food lover. If we can bring our flesh under subjection, it is like what Pastor Kong has written, we bring our flesh under subjection to our spirit, and we grow inside.

Hope this helps.
Song on December 5th, 2009 1:47 am

Reply to Patricia’s post on December 4th, 2009 11:58 am ….

I would have to disagree with your view.

Firstly, I don’t agree that the Sun or the dancers in the MV are “flaunting skin”. They looked like they are in gym attire which ladies would wear nowadays. So, would you conclude that ladies in the qym wearing similar outfit are “flaunting skin”?

Secondly, concerning the dance genre. How do you classify what dance genre is acceptable and what aren’t?

I wish all the best for Sun, as I have a friend who love hip-hop dancing. But for years she couldn’t reconcile between being a good Christian and hip-hop dancing. She found an example in Sun. Now she is dancing hip-hop as a profession, yet keeping her faith.
danieljx on December 5th, 2009 1:57 am

To michaellow, raro-roma, apple

Your postings are ridculous!. FearGod is right. You guys are just wanting to state your own ‘anti-everything’ agenda and try to misinterpret everything in your own point of view.

This is ridiculous to think that ‘Christians’ (really not sure if you are one from your language) have so much negative comments on
such a fundamental truth about fasting.

From the list of comments, the blog post has inspired many to fast for their own consecration in the Lord.

Please… spin your ‘unconstructive’ tales somewhere else…
DJ on December 5th, 2009 2:11 am

To lambert

it seems that you do follow the tweets and comments of Pst Kong quite closely.

To answer your question about if the fast was a routine: First of all, you must understand his perspective. While reading the tweets, I think you need to contextualise the fact that Pst Kong was already in this 1xth day fast. Naturally, the flesh will crave for food. I think it just shows the fact that Pst Kong is human…? But more importantly, I think the ‘missing out’ by Pst Kong when he is fasting is not the food, but the fact that he is not able to participate in the ‘eating together’ with the people he loves?

I think it’s his faith and commitment to his fast unto the Lord that is admirable that we should focus on rather than what food he is forgoing and sounding like a routine?

If you are serious about fasting, you should re-read the blog and find out your limits. I believe as you pray and fast unto the Lord, God will honor your faith.
gwaang on December 5th, 2009 2:21 am

Thank you for sharing such an insightful message about fasting! I know that you post have brought me to a higher level of understanding on fasting. It makes me want to do it not just for the sake of doing it but to do it with a purpose and reason. It just makes me happy that breakthrough and revival is on the way when I pray and fast!!

Thank you Pst!
JHian on December 5th, 2009 2:21 am

Dear Pastor

Great post! Really feel inspired to fast by your sharing based on the Word Of God!

To the Naysayers (apple, micheallow, ramo-whatever)
Pls do your hijacking somewhere else… Can’t see why you need to thumb down Pastor Kong’s post in his blog with unconstructive discussions. Why not do it in yours?

Pls keep your smear to yourself!
JrDarius on December 5th, 2009 2:38 am

Dear Pastor,

Your post on fasting is balanced and insightful. I’ve always enjoyed reading your blog. Feel inspired to fast more regularly.

Pls do keep blogging!
Sleepyhead on December 5th, 2009 2:40 am

Let’s all go and sleep and have a good rest after all we are all going to the Lord’s house this weekend.

Let’s focus on Jesus after all He is the reason for this blog and even the contention of perspectives.

If need be, then pick up your sparring tools from Monday onwards.

Have a great weekend worshipping and with your family. It is truly going to be great because Jesus.

cheers

sleepyhead
ECD on December 5th, 2009 2:59 am

Dear Pastor

another great post. I enjoy how all your posts are both spiritual (scriptural) and sensible. Everytime I read them I am enriched in my mind and, as well as, in my spirit.

You have never forced us to do anything (be it fasting or anything else). But, in everything, you have led by example. I am always continually humbled and inspired by you.

You share because you care. I can receive that.

You and Sun are our constant pathfinders. Thank you for journeying on the road less travelled. Your lives constantly push the boundary of what was previously understood as impossible and become a benchmark for us to aspire towards.

For that, we are extremely grateful. Press on :)

Following in your footsteps,
D&G
MyNameIsNotAhFat on December 5th, 2009 3:12 am

Dear Pastor,

Thank you for writing this entry on fasting! It’s really eye-opening article, and I am looking forward to fasting soon for a breakthrough in my personal life! Thanks for being an example to us with your lifestyle! I know that if not for your constant fasting, our church would not have arrived at where we are today. So, thanks for your sacrifices! I’m looking forward to fasting with you for our church to move on to the next level! Believing with you for our vision of a church in the marketplace! Love you Pastor!!

p.s.: even though my name is not ah fat, i do hope that besides a getting a spiritual breakthrough, fasting will help me lose some fats too. hee hee :)
K&E on December 5th, 2009 3:42 am

Faith without action is dead and talk is cheap.

I am going to fast and seek the face of God in the coming week.

I am going to pray for my loved ones, and our church.

Oppsss… I am not allowed to tell anyone that I am doing it, is it?

Take it easy, guys. Our Father is not as religious as we think He is.

Be blessed…
rara-roma on December 5th, 2009 4:39 am

To Kelvin Tan:
Pst can write about prayer, and you guys will say that he is forcing people to pray and condemning those that are not praying.
——————-
In all honesty, I actually appreciate and find this blog entry informative and encouraging.

What I shared about were true experience which I had heard and seen in my own church, from my leadership – heavily scrutinizing every member’s prayer and fasting schedule, which led to many of us feeling guilty or at times struggle to keep up to being accountable to the leader.

Many chose not to voice out, while others even attempted to ‘lie’ to our leaders about their prayer and fasting schedules in order to cover up for their inability to do so.

In a sense it’s true that while this may not have any link to this blog entry, but what I wanted to voice out was my personal experience. I hope that there clears the doubt and I am a fervent supporter of Pastor Kong’s mighty great exploits for the Kingdom of God.

——————-
To CC:
HEY: Pastor Kong has been fasting since 1986. He has every right to share what he knows about this topic. AND only if you have fasted as long, then please write on this too, or even comment about it.

IF not, please …

Your comments are ridiculous.
——————-

I find it appalling for you to defend in such a manner when Pastor Kong’s and chcsg’s Twitter told us to feel free to comment, without any pre-requisite or qualifications to do so.:

“My latest blog is up. Enjoy & comment. Link your blog to it …Enjoy!”

——————-
To DJ:
For the naysayers, please get your facts straight. If you what you claim is really true (which I doubt), why don’t you feedback to the Church Pastors and they would certainly take action?
——————-
I hope you understand that each of us may have different experience. And sometimes even when the feedback has been given, the response is likened to a multitude of rockets to flood the opposition.

It’s like an fire command activation code (via an email or sms or something) and the fire never stops ceasing.

I hope that people can take the comments with an open heart. Some of us, i believe have no intention of harm but simply as a voice of concern and awakening. I urge that we do not drown these voices.

I pray that at the end of everything, we will welcome Jesus back into our blogs, our discussions, our conversations and in our prayers and fastings.
Tom on December 5th, 2009 7:34 am

To rara-roma

Matthew 6:16 says WHEN you fast NOT IF you fast!!!!!!!

You better be careful if you think you can criticize a man of God and get away with it you better read what happened to Aaron and Miriam in Numbers 12: 1-10
SuperJunior on December 5th, 2009 8:22 am

Thank you Pastor, for explaining on fasting and what it means. I’m going to try to fast and pray this week. The last time I fasted, I have to discipline myself by God’s strength and grace throughout the day. After that, I realized when I prayed and worshipped, the presence of God fell in a very tangible way. I believe in fasting and the benefits that you said. I’m going to do it again this week!
Grateful on December 5th, 2009 8:27 am

How is it that fasting brings so many comments? I got to try doing it some time. Fantastic Blog! Cheers to Pastor Kong Hee!
MyNameIsAhHuat on December 5th, 2009 9:08 am

When Pastor Kong invite readers of his blog to “Feel Free To Comment” in his turf, by his own generosity – understand this – there is an decorum of certain proper language and decent behaviour that we all should adhere to; if not as Christians at least as person with proper manners, We are free to comment, ask questions, probe, enquire, highlight or debate as gentlemen/ladies.

But when the line is crossed – slander, character assassination, malicious accusations, false witnessing, lies, or baseless attacking of him and/or his family – understand this also – we (members/non-members/visitors/young/old) love Kong Hee very much because he is our shephard who feeds us the Word of God.
We will not sit by and see his adversaries tear him up.

We pray for him and he prays for us and loved us and cared for us. Don’t worry, we have already scrutinised him by the Holy Spirit who bore witness that Kong Hee is worthy to lead CHC and us. God is not looking for a Golden vessel nor a Silver vessel but a Willing vessel, yielded whose heart is after God and carrying out His will on earth as it is in heaven.

If the lies that were said about him were true, do you think 27000 members and thosands of other non-members/visitors are all naive? And need a few kaypoes from outside to “takeout” our Senior Pastor for us? You must be kidding right? He won’t be around today if he wasn’t a true gem.

Pastor Kong is not perfect and so are we. If we wait until we are perfect before we go to chuch, the church would be empty. And if Christians wait until they perfect before they become pastors, there will be no church. Its always by the movement of the Holy Spirit, trial, testing and moulding. CHC leadership do not lord over the congregations lives – they teach and let you make the correct choices.If you have to tolerate, where you are, I invite you to go to CHC where you can experience God and celebrate.

Pastor Kong teaches us to love God wholehearted and People ferverently. That’s also God’s intend, but do not be deceived, our God is a god of war. If our adversaries make war with us under the direction of our enemy satan we will under the counsel of the Holy Spirit go to WAR, And we will be victorious for it is not by flesh but by the spirit – we don’t need emails, sms or telephones calls.

So everyone, feel free to comment, but please mind your manners, don’t slander or assassinate our Snr.Pastor’s character, or wound his loved ones’ soul OR we will take you on.

Glory be to God!
Amen.
JadaPink on December 5th, 2009 9:17 am

Dear Pastor,

I learn so much every time I read your blog.

It seems like there are people out there who love you and those who wants to spam you down no matter what you say.

I think any naysayer should fast for 21 days periodically, build a church your size and influence, love his/her wife and family, write on helpful but at times controversial topics like these on his/her blog, be criticized and keep on going stronger, before this person tries to come up with a theory that is not even sound biblically.

It must be true when the word says, “… nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet”

Have a great weekend! I can’t get to church today so I’ll see you online! I think there are more supporters than those against. Ha ha…
Gina on December 5th, 2009 9:45 am

Pastor,

Thanks for the wonderful writing. Your life is truly an inspiration and thank you for being so real in all that you do, including fasting so that we can all catch it! Thank you for choosing this path that makes you vulnerable to critics.

We are so privilege in CHC to see and know what you preach and do and how so consistent you are! You always encourage and inspire us with love so unconditional that even though we are sometimes slow in receiving. Friends not in CHC may think we are “forced” but that is so far from the truth. If only they are in CHC and catch the spirit of how you disciple the church!

As for teachings such as fasting, pastor, thank you for not only taking the time to preach, write blogs and live the gospel through your life. If you don’t do all these for us to hear, read and see, how are we supposed to learn? Thank you for every little things you do and write as they are all very precious and I am sure it will continue to bless those with open hearts.

May you and Sun continue to shine even brighter and may your love continue to point people to Him who watches over all of us!

Thanks pastor!
backstageworker on December 5th, 2009 9:48 am

==> JOY! U kana Sai, Kin nah Pee!

Your comment showed how hypocritic you are!
“Thanks Pastor, for your incredible message.
But I have to agree with Amy and Michaellow – the parts on sinning of the kids and God hurting you to make you better sounds very wrong to me, and not edifying at all.”

I just hate this kind of hypocrite (but I still love you, hope to convict you).

Hypocrite are always like tat one.
Give praise to people but behind the mind, they already had the Evil intend of whacking the person.
In the first place, no need to praise the person lah. Just whack with all your viciousness and evilness, don’t need to give thanks and praise.
Challenge you understand the Word of God :-
“but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.” Matt 13:25
Not sure if you have the mentality to understand this part of the parable. Ai yah, ching chai lah, share with you as bonus lah.
The symbolic meaning is that even if your mind (soul) belongs to Kingdom of God, the Satan will still plant evil thoughts in you (the tares) and if you don’t guard your thoughts, not in prayer and surrender to the Wisdom of our Holy Spirit, although you may speak goodness but the intend of the message is being eaten up by complete evilness (the tares).
As spoken in the next verse:-
“But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.” Matt 13:26 Understand or not? Simple childish minded?
Wah lau ehhh ! Like that also can? So childish, evil and idiotic saying. ====>Joy “I guess fasting also affect the quality of your blog as shown in the weaknesses pointed out by friends from the other churches.” Have you even fasted for 3 days before?
On second thought ===>Joy! I think your mind is fully crowded with tares. God bless you and hope you’ll be convicted of what you had done.

Hmmm…. wonder how would Joy feel if her friend praised her and then whack her viciously with all the bad bad bad… haha hahaha hehehehe
LYL on December 5th, 2009 10:04 am

Dear Pastor Kong,
Thank you so much for such an insightful writeup on fasting. It is apparent that you do not just ‘talk the talk’ but also ‘walk the walk’, having an exemplary lifestyle for us believers.

A detailed read of your posting definitely does not strike me as one ‘boasting’ of his works, as some have claimed. Far from it! It is sad how naive and presumptous some readers can be. I really appreciate all your time and research on this topic, teaching us the benefits and practical to-dos about fasting. This posting is so apt, having come from a spiritual giant whose life is marked by great prayer and fasting.

Like what Paul says, we are bondservants of God and NOT bondservants of men. A true believer ought to live his life to the fullest, fulfil the destiny God has for him and refuse to be ‘ensnared’ by the biased citicisms faced. The fact is, nothing we do, can ever please everyone.

Thanks Pastor Kong for your courage to live out God’s dreams. Your love for God and His word has been such a wonderful example to us all!
to rara-roma on December 5th, 2009 10:04 am

To rara-roma,

As a member of CHC, I’m glad that you enjoy reading Pastor Kong’s blog as I do too. It is indeed informative and encouraging, as you say.

Regarding your own experiences of being ‘forced’ and ‘demanded’ to fast, I am sympathetic towards you. I feel that nobody should feel forced by another person to fast and I think that Pastor in his post brought this across clearly. It is a personal call from God that will bring about the desire and the conviction to fast. Pastor’s honesty about the difficulties in fasting through his tweets etc also show us the human side of the struggle and encourage us to perservere.

If you have felt pressured in the past it is of course good to voice your opinions and queries. These things should be clarified and Pastor has kindly opened up this virtual space for discussion. But one must bear in mind the author of the blog and us who love him and want to uphold him.

Don’t give up! Lets continue to seek God for the wisdom and understanding for He knows all things.

Be blessed! :)
Sleepyhead on December 5th, 2009 10:08 am

Good morn everyone…

Hope tat all had a good rest … It is good to
prepare our hearts and free them from burdens
before we come into the house of God…

The Pharisees persecuted Jesus…

The disciples wanted to call down fire and
attempted using a sword to defence Jesus…

Jesus rebuked the pharisees for the burden that
placed over the people…

Jesus rebuked the disciples for the wrong spirit
that they had…

Jesus taught us how to come before God when come into His house

… We are to make peace with people who had offended us

… We are to forgive our debtors as our Father forgives us

… We are to reflect before we take of the Eucharist

If need be, then pick up the spar after the Lord’s day.. Grin

Have a great time at your church service

Jesus is the reason for the season…

Cheers :)
thoughts on December 5th, 2009 10:15 am

Hey guys just a thought kay… in Matt 16 isn’t Jesus implying that when we fast we shouldn’t look like all tired and stuff so that people will think how spiritual we are… we shouldn’t seek for people’s sympathy? Pastor’s not doing that wat! He’s jsut encouraging us thats all.. And he doesn’t ever look tired and stuff :) just a thought :)
- on December 5th, 2009 10:19 am

To Mynameis Ahhuat

please pass this message to your pastor:

Be careful what he says in overseas churches about our Christian brothers.

http://alvinology.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/pastor-kong-hee-on-cheap-grace-preachers/

For the record, I AM NOT from a megachurch

I am not seeking revenge

I just find Pastor tone very unchristlike. And so, do not run to another country to crucify another brother anointed by God, and not make apologies about it. It is so embarrassing for CHC.

He sounds like he is spitting venom,

That is all
Greive on December 5th, 2009 10:21 am

http://www.fitnessthroughfasting.com/fastinghealth.html

Please read this.

For the anorexic and vain wannabes in CHC – please keep this note.

It may save your life.
xwf on December 5th, 2009 11:51 am

Hi pastor, thanks for this post. It encourages me and motivate me to seek God even more. As the bible says, knows the tree by its fruits, I know you by the fruits that has been produced for the last many years. You are indeed the “tree” I will very much want to imitate. Thanks for teaching and guiding us!
CKTan on December 5th, 2009 12:21 pm

I sympathize with the members who have been “forced” to fast. As for me, I do fast whenever the Lord leads and I find it beneficial.
Stanley Tan on December 5th, 2009 12:31 pm

Hi Greive, good link you provided.
Before fast, here are some notes about body need for Sugar and Salt.
Sugar
While sugar is essential for our body function as energy source, too much of it would leads to obese. Sugar gums up the immune system. Due to the need to use up your body’s minerals, eating sugar can cause a chromium deficiency, copper deficiency, and can interfere with absorption of calcium and magnesium. an imbalance which can cause hyperactivity, anxiety, concentration difficulties.
SALT
A high level of salt intake increases the amount of calcium excreted in the urine, which may also contribute to osteoporosis and increased risk of fracture.

The balance of sodium and water in the body can also be disrupted if there is not enough water. This may be caused by a damaged thirst mechanism or by limited access to water. Hypernatremia is a very serious condition that occurs when your sodium levels rise above 145mEq/L. It can lead to death. A major symptom is thirst and treatment usually involves controlled water replacement.

e) Salt loss is rare but can be dangerous

The body loses salt through urine, perspiration, vomiting and diarrhoea. If too much salt is lost, the level of fluid in the blood will drop. Hyponatremia is a condition that occurs when the sodium in your blood falls below the normal range of 135–145 milliequivalents per litre (mEq/L). In severe cases, low sodium levels in the body can lead to muscle cramps, nausea, vomiting and dizziness. Eventually lack of salt can lead to shock, coma and death.

Severe salt loss is very unlikely to happen because our diets contain more than enough salt. The only time this is likely to occur is when someone has acute gastroenteritis (causing vomiting and diarrhoea), severe sweating or water intoxication (from drinking too much water).

Written and posted 18th June 2009 “Why not Sugar and darkness?” click link for full facts and article
http://www.esharingportal.com/viewstory.php?sid=100&chapter=1

I really respect all the fasting warrior of God. Inspire of these facts, especially the danger of severe salt loss which can leads to water intoxication. And yet we have man of God able to fast 21 days and it is like a miracle. Wow 40 days fast. Greive, I am amazed! Aren’t you?
WakeUp on December 5th, 2009 1:01 pm

To ■- on December 5th, 2009 10:19 am

You said “Be careful what he says in overseas churches about our Christian brothers. http://alvinology.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/pastor-kong-hee-on-cheap-grace-preachers/”

You keep on repeating the same thing and you said you are not out for revenge … what a joke!

“I just find Pastor tone very unchristlike. And so, do not run to another country to crucify another brother anointed by God, and not make apologies about it. It is so embarrassing for CHC.”

I think you are the one who is unchristlike, and you are the one doing the crucifying … indeed you are embarrassing yourself ….

“He sounds like he is spitting venom”

I think your venom is more powerful …

Wake up
WakeUp on December 5th, 2009 1:05 pm

To ■Greive on December 5th, 2009 10:21 am

Man … you totally missed the point, I don’t think Ps Kong is asking us to fast for health …

What an “impressive” understanding you have ….

WakeUp
Amazed on December 5th, 2009 1:38 pm

Dear Rev Kong,

I am not from CHC, but have also admired the work that CHC is doing in winning the lost and being relevant to our society.

Just want to say that I am really blessed by your article. You have been an inspiring example to me …

May the Lord continue to lead you to fulfill His will on earth …

Amazed
Stanley Tan on December 5th, 2009 2:35 pm

To ■- on December 5th, 2009 10:19 am
Please lah, at least show us some quality video link, Okay?
The video was so bad that I can’t hear clearly, distorted. Not sure who was speaking actually.

■- on December 5th, 2009 10:19 am said :-
“I just find Pastor tone very unchristlike. And so, do not run to another country to crucify another brother anointed by God, and not make apologies about it. It is so embarrassing for CHC.”

I personally think that Pastor Kong is giving face to whoever the Preacher he is talking about. Also to avoid direct confrontation and also not to cause some or many real believer of that Preacher in that Church to lost faith.

To ■- on December 5th, 2009 10:19 am, you don’t even dare to put a nickname? Hmmm… maybe you are from that church?
Again you are misusing this blog to personally attack the writer.
Like I said in the previous blog:-
What I can say is that this blog is preaching about a Bible passage in Job. It doesn’t matter where and which is right or wrong. Anyone can all comment about it. But what see here is personal attack on the writer. Very immature childish action. The bible said.
Ephesians 6:12 ” For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
Why personal attack? If you really understand this bible message, you would not had done it!
IMMATURE CHRISTIAN
Tends to attack people personally, not forgiving, vicious and unconstructive critism.
MATURED CHRISTIAN
Understand Ephesians 6:12
Love the person, atttack principalities, against the powers by prayer. Constructive critism to help and love other people.
So what if you are always right?
But lost your Soul??????
CS on December 5th, 2009 2:36 pm

I’m an ordinary attending member of CHC. All through the decade of my time in CHC, I’ve never once been forced to fast … if anyone can be forced to do that, that person is a mere robot, isn’t he? Even God doesn’t touch our will to choose. Come on! So, what gives you, CKTAN, the impression that members are forced? That’s the craziest thing I’ve heard :)
Angelin V on December 5th, 2009 3:30 pm

Hi Pastor Kong, thanks for sharing with us the benefits! Didn’t know there are also health benefits as well. Once again, thank you for teaching us about fasting! :)
CKTan on December 5th, 2009 4:10 pm

Perhaps my English is not as good. Let me clarify. I left out the word “if”. If members are forced to fast, I sympathize with them. I am not saying that members are. However, I feel you should have celebrated the second part of my statement: when the Lord leads anyone to fast, it is beneficial. Please do not nitpick. I hope you’re not a pharisee in the making. Anyway, let’s all enjoy our weekend with the Lord.
Parent on December 5th, 2009 5:36 pm

Please note that Chinawine is not just about her dressing attire in bikini.

Note the 2 dancers in karma sutra sex position.

Note the female to female body touching – this was before Adam lambert same sex kiss on TV recently – Sun was way ahead of the same sex game.

Do you need me to post the Chinawine video again?

Note this exposition about lasciviousness in the previous blog comments – and yes, watch out …

quote:

It is used to described homosexual acts in Rom 1:24, acts of violation against God’s law in Rom 6:1, associated with sexual immorality & lasciviousness, in 2 Cor 12:21, Gal 5:19, Eph 4:19, Col 3:5, 1 Thess 4:7.”

googled lascivous and got this
Adj. 1. lascivious – driven by lust; preoccupied with or exhibiting lustful desires; “libidinous orgies”
libidinous, lustful, lewd
sexy – marked by or tending to arouse sexual desire or interest; “feeling sexy”; “sexy clothes”; “sexy poses”; “a sexy book”; “sexy jokes”

nb. Sun said ” you have to make me sexy !” b4 chinawine interview.

saw this link while googling lascviousness

http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1123-what-is-lasciviousness

excerpts :

“What is ‘lasciviousness,’ as mentioned in Galatians 5:19?”

The Greek word behind the English term “lascivious” is aselgeia. It occurs nine times in the New Testament. Twice it is rendered as “wantonness” (Romans 13:13; 2 Peter 2:18), and once it appears as “filthy” (2 Peter 2:7). The other six times it is translated as “lascivious” (cf. Mark 7:22; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 4:19; 1 Peter 4:3; Jude 4).

Lasciviousness is a gross form of wickedness that has sexual overtones in many cases. It starts in a sinful heart (Mark 7:21-22), and manifests itself in fleshly (carnal) actions (Galatians 5:19), and can lead to a state of being “past feeling” (Ephesians 4:19).

The word can connote several attitudes or actions. With reference to sexual matters it embraces the concepts of excess, unbridled lust, debauchery, and sensuality. It suggests a disregard for public decency.

William Barclay says the word conveys the idea of a person “who is so far gone in lust and desire” that he or she ceases “to care what people say or think” (p. 52)….

J.H. Thayer connected the term with such things as “wanton (acts or) manners, filthy words, indecent bodily movements,” and “unchaste handling of males and females” (pp. 79-80). It is a comprehensive term for evil and perversion (Balz, p. 169). For example, it describes the moral environment of ancient Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Peter 2:7), and one hardly needs to be reminded of the shameless…

The term aselgeia, however, can go beyond sexual sins and connote any form of excess, i.e., one who “knows no boundaries” in whatever form of evil he indulges (Trench, pp. 56-58).

In this discussion, however, we will limit ourselves to some applications in issues of sexuality — which seems to be a rather pressing matter in this age of sensuality and apparent insensitivity.

(1) The use of sexually explicit media materials is a form of lasciviousness. This would include pornographic visuals, such as live productions, books or magazines, movies or videos, audio tapes, etc. This is a growing problem in American society — even among some who profess Christianity…

(2) Lasciviousness occurs frequently in work places where men and women are constantly thrown together in close contact. Flirting, suggestive touching, language containing sexual innuendo, sex humor, provocative dress (skin tight apparel, the display of cleavage, thigh-revealing skirts, etc.) are forms of lascivious conduct ……

(3) Lascivious communications are common on some web sites. … Christian parents should supervise carefully what their youngsters are viewing, as they spend hours of their leisure time on the “net.”

It is incomprehensible that many parents allow their sons and daughters to engage in various forms of lascivious conduct (be it dress, visual entertainment, language, etc.); such actions are sweeping their youngsters down a road to destruction.

Those who take the Scriptures seriously will personally abstain from such practices, and train their children in morally pure, respectable behavior.

The lascivious person will not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven (Galatians 5:19-21). To ignore the biblical warnings is the epitome of folly.
Sources/Footnotes

Balz, Horst & Schneider (1990), Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans), Vol. 1.

Barclay, William (1958), Letters to the Galatians and Ephesians (Philadelphia: Westminster).

Thayer, J.H. (1958), A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark).

Trench, R.C. (1890), Synonyms of the New Testament (London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co.).”

my 2 cts worth as a mother :

To a lot of Christian parents , Sun’s dress and suggestive moves / sexiness would be considered lascivious and point 2 of the linked article affirms that, but I guess TKH will insist it’s not and that those who think so have an impure mind. Whatever the case, parents need to be careful with the MTV culture and the values they promote….. so parents reading this blog, be aware that the MTV culture (aka pop culture) is not something amoral. It promotes lasciviousness. I watched it with my daughter and was shocked at the reality show “promoting” bisexuality … she laughed and said it was just entertainment…. I guess that’s how Satan desensitises / deceives us into sin…

thanks TKH for confirming that lasciviousness is included under
ακαθαρσια = impurity, can be physically or morally: – uncleanness.

and for confirming that

“let it not be named (or labelled) among you, as fitting for saints of God, (with the above 3 things, namely): sexual immorality and all uncleanness associated with it, and covetous acts.”

I agree with the christiancourier link that “Flirting, suggestive touching, language containing sexual innuendo, sex humor, provocative dress (skin tight apparel, the display of cleavage, thigh-revealing skirts, etc.) are forms of lascivious conduct ……”

and with TKH’s statement that lascviousness should not be named or labelled among Christians.

God bless Christian parents with wisdom n obedience to His word !

Unquote:

So for those who feels Chinawine is just bikini / aerobics wear, trust me – it is not. It is the whole pornographic industry leaking into mainstream culture – that which your cultural manmade is based upon.

Why did this come up in the Fasting blog? Cos of your Pastor’s 3rd wish……

I too wish Sun success in her walk with God and pray for the right decisions to be made.
- on December 5th, 2009 5:44 pm

Just to be sure – dear CHC devotees.

If your pastor makes a statement that is not biblically correct, would you point it out to him?

Would you stand on the side of the word of bible, or stand for your pastor and let it pass – quietly……

And I trust that is what Michaellow Amy Apple are trying hard to do to help new formed Christians.

I think the issues of Job and how God decides to ‘break him’ is really not correct. Try telling that to the widow / widower. Does it not sound like the 3 detractors?

And really, I am addicted to Pastor’s blog now cos of unwholesome shallowness – his pronouncement that Sun is the Role Model to the unchurched THROUGHOUT ASIA demands that I follow her facebook and tweets closely, and follow this blog closely.

Need to see what she is up to and if she deserves the role model title. With that, Pastor gets the Husband of the Role model title!

Really, what new karma sutra moves will come up next??

Woohoo.
LK on December 5th, 2009 5:58 pm

Pst, thanks for the great post. It is really encouraging. Am encourage to establish a lifestyle of fasting as well. :)

To the critics, if you have nothing better to do. Why don’t you pray and seek God for yourself whether what you are doing is right.

Cheers.
not from mega church on December 5th, 2009 6:02 pm

I wonder what it will take for Pastor Kong to apologise for his ranting against another pastor in Sweden.

Does he ever apologise?

For it is true, he is probably getting the point one finger, 3 fingers point back at you now from Apple , michaellow and Amy.

I quote a comment above
I personally think that Pastor Kong is giving face to whoever the Preacher he is talking about. Also to avoid direct confrontation and also not to cause some or many real believer of that Preacher in that Church to lost faith.

unquote –

yes, the rock slinging will continue cos it is fine to scold others in sweden, but not for others to scold him back. – or point him towards scripture where his treatise on Job is concerned

:)

Chill.
ManInBlack on December 5th, 2009 6:46 pm

For ■Parent on December 5th, 2009 5:36 pm

First you practise Kama Sutra, hopefully only with your spouse. Then you surf to look for lewd video to watch. When you came across China Wine you say its Kama Sutra sex position so and so.
Then you are concerned that your children might be corrupted by these. People watch MTV channel not porn leh.
Your children will most likey learn corruption from you.
Stanley on December 5th, 2009 7:12 pm

I quote a comment above:
“If your pastor makes a statement that is not biblically correct, would you point it out to him?”
Which part do you think is not biblically correct? If you are refering to “When bad things happen to Good people” This is the wrong place to Post. Goto post about Job, under my name 2nd post.

I wrote :
“When he (Job) prayed for his friends.” I don’t know why this
IMPORTANT PART IS NOT BEING PREACHED. If Job had not interceded for his 3 friends as instructed by God, do you think he can received his double blessing?

While this post here Fasting is an area which I lack, it is very edifying, I posted comment to compliment it by taking part of my text talking about body needs of Sugar and Salt. And who am I to comment about Fasting? I did only the 3 days fast on record.
It is a miracle how our Fasting Warrior is able to fast 21 days or even 40 days and yet able to do the work of God, preaching globally.
Thank you Pastor Kong for the rich insight on this topic about the Power of Fast. Gonna follow your ability for the right purpose – Not for any other reason than to seek God’s filling in.
ManInBlack on December 5th, 2009 7:41 pm

TO ■- on December 5th, 2009 5:44 pm -also known to be-
■not from mega church on December 5th, 2009 6:02 pm

First of all you are not as you claim from any megachurch – the ROCK. You are probably a ‘devotee’ of Pastor Prince. From your earlier post and links you alleged that Pastor Kong’s video clip slandered the ROCK even though he did not mentioned the pastor’s or church’s name. Then you come to this blog and pop CHC hopefully to get its people to pop-off the ROCK and cause strife between the two megachurches. And you call your ploy in the name of righteousness? Anyone with spiritual eyes can see who you represent – SATAN!

I am quite sure if there are any small differences between the two respectable Senior Pastors, it can be easily reconciliated specially CHC office is just opposite to the Rock auditorium in the same Suntec Bldg. They do not need you to be a shit-stirer.

Do our pastor make mistakes? Of course. We email him but more importantly we pray to God so that He corrects him thru His Wisdom. We do not slander our pastor – doing so is evil in God’s eyes. Do you pray or so boastfully rely on your own judement and opinions? By the way Pastor Kong is not free-ranging OK? He is answerable to his Pastor Ulf (Word of Life church). the ROCK is probably Word of Faith -RHEMA.

I think you better back off your vindictive slander of Rev.Kong Hee and Sun – you have no idea what the spiritual realm is all about yet. Or have seen the move of God’s hand in the supernatural.
TwittLink - Your headlines on Twitter on December 5th, 2009 8:37 pm

[...] Tweets about this great post on TwittLink.com [...]
Fasting « David’s Muses on December 5th, 2009 9:41 pm

[...] 5, 2009 at 9:36 pm (God, Learnings, Prayer) came across this post on fasting by Ps Kong of CHC, makes for a good read, and inspires me to want to pray and fast more, [...]
not from mega church on December 5th, 2009 9:44 pm

Sun has a spriritual realm?

Wow,

Where? The part she oogles at near naked men and posted on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75T2RVR9nHA&feature=player_embedded

I learn a lot about this post on fasting, but the part about his third wish is conflicting. You mean we can fast and hope for material gains one? For something that is lascivious?? !! I thought it was the grace of God and we need not work hard at it.

Please go ahead about the spiritual realm, but keep Sun out…..what …….Role Model of the unchurched?

You saw that video?

Really, I have no spiritual realm to talk about personally, I am a new Christiian…….. but looking at Sun….. That kind of realm is something I do not wish upon anyone.

Really I am not from the Rock. God is my witness. And I do not wish anyone in CHC to think I am from there.

Something just does not seem right, even if I am not from Rock. You don’t talk about a brother-in-christ in that tone…..

I don’t know – doesn’t anyone in CHC feel uncomfortable with that Sweden video? – Seriously, anyone??
Reuel Eugene on December 5th, 2009 9:54 pm

To Parent,

Please do note that this video is considered conservative in Hollywood standards, not that there was anything indecent about it in the first place. Why does it bother you when her backup dancers are dancing behind? Are they engaging in an indecent act that ‘can’t see daylight’ or is it just your judgmental side judging Sun along with her backup dancers just because they are not fully clothed from top-down, head-to-toe, singing traditional Gospel songs?

No wonder so many in US have backslided from the faith believe it or not! Statistics show a decline of christians in both US and UK over the years considering the fact that both countries consider themselves as ‘christian countries’, with many in UK even turning to other faiths which will not be stated here. Churches have just become icons in towns and cities where people can go to to view nice and pretty stained glass. Because churches (many, not all) are becoming irrelevant and obsolete!

We gotta be able to keep up with times friends! Bible says be in the world [learn their cultures], but not of the world [but do not embrace their idolatrous acts]. Hence, with this [cultural mandate] in mind, we need to penetrate the pop culture but not embrace the idolatrous acts of the pop culture, which is what Sun is doing now!

Why is it that many of us are viewing that particular video as a source of music and entertainment while many such as you would view it as the porn industry leaking into mainstream culture?

Firstly, by criticizing Sun so much, about her being a bad example, what makes you think she doesn’t care about her kid herself? You’re not the only one who has children for your info. While Sun is in the entertainment industry, she is treading on dangerous waters where she sets herself to be there to make an influence and reach out to the entertainment industry and at the same time, not be influenced by them instead.

She is human too and can be tempted too, all the more we should be praying for her, and not criticizing her! If every member in church is as legalistic as you, how can the church grow? Must every meeting be filled with big spiritual truths which new believers will find incomprehensible? Must every services be filled with bible studies with no showcase of talents whatsoever?

I believe you’re not being objective but simply personal in your accusations, not that you should even accuse in the first place! Bible says ‘Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.’ Are you doing that currently?

Bible says ‘To the pure, all things are pure.’ What is your intentions/ulterior motive when watching Sun’s videos? See it to see how good it is, or see it to try to spot the ‘bad things’? I pray that you will be able to see the light of the current situation and not blaspheme against the servants of God.

In the first place, this blog is about Fasting isn’t it? Why is it that so many is still talking about contents from ‘Wholesome Shallowness’? Are people trying to start a theological debate? Bible says do not engage in pointless debates. Or are people trying to find trouble, find ‘fame’ by criticizing over at this platform?

I wonder.

Instead of dividing the House of God, why don’t we learn to agree to disagree?

God bless,
Reuel Eugene
Reuel Eugene on December 5th, 2009 10:30 pm

To not from mega church,

Congratulations on accepting Jesus into your life!

Anyway, perhaps you have not heard the news and updates about Sun, hence you do not know of the good works she has done.

Bible says when you do something good, do not ‘blow the trumpet’ over it and let the whole world know about it. [which was what the pharisees did] The Bible in fact, said when you do a good work, ‘do not let your left hand know what your right hand has done’, which means, do charitable work in secret! Don’t need to broadcast and tell the world!

For your info, Sun has done many good works in China, building many schools [aiming for 100 schools] there, providing funds from her own pocket [not from Church if that is what you accusers are thinking], show kindness to China but she did not blow her own trumpet like many did when they accomplished a certain feat.

She is today the Love Ambassador to China and has many access to helping China. Unlike many great people or even Red Cross who want to gain access to China to help China, which they failed miserably [even though they are all sincere from the bottom of their hearts to help China], Sun has managed to touch China, thus having access to helping them. [Not everyone who wants to build a school for China get to build a school for China fyi.]

In fact, she has done much more than what I’ve said and I beg your pardon for not knowing all the humanitarian works she has done.

Surely, the people of China [which constitutes 1/5 of the world's population fyi] can sense whether Sun is sincere or not?

CHC today has 27,000 people in our congregation. I am also an attending church member with CHC. Surely all 27,000 of us have eyes to see, ears to hear, to see if our Pastor and his wife is in the faith?

Bible says whatever is not of God, will not last. If Pastor Kong is falling from the faith, God will have His own methods to deal with Pastor, we don’t need to interfere. Bible says ‘My [God] ways are higher than your ways.’ We don’t need to play ‘God’ or ‘Holy Spirit’ over Pastor Kong.

But from all the sermons and mission updates that Pastor has updated the church on a regular basis, I dare say my Pastor is definitely in the faith, and loving Jesus more and more with each coming day. [and he encourages us to love God more and more every day too]

He also continues to accounts to his spiritual fathers [Dr. Ulf Ekman, Dr. Cho, etc.] and spiritual mothers [Dr. Kim Sunghae] as well as other spiritual friends.

not from mega church,
I apologize on behalf of some of my brothers/sisters if they have let their emotions get the better of them. Pastor has tirelessly poured his life for the church, perhaps because of that, some of the members who are young in the Lord, became overly agitated when they see mean things directed towards Pastor and said mean things.

About the video in Sweden, Pastor is simply warning us about the dangers of swinging to 2 different extremes. In the christiandom, there are many heresies that has been birthed forth along the years, which will not be discussed here.

Even in the christian faith, there are some who have ‘unique’ theologies or are extremist such as the Ultra Conservatives and the Ultra Liberals. Pastor is simply trying to warn us not to swing to both extremes, but to have a balanced lifestyle.

In the natural, even if you love to eat meat, we all know we need to eat vegetables for certain proteins not found in meats right? It has even been proven that drinking too much (excessive) water is actually bad for the lungs much to the contrary of what we all believe!

Hence, pastor is simply telling to tell us to have a balanced lifestyle! Not to live by ‘cheap grace’.

Hope that helps.

God bless,
Reuel Eugene
Jam on December 5th, 2009 11:26 pm

Hi Pastor Kong,

Your blog entry on fasting was really timely. And I appreciate your sharing on your own personal experience on fasting.

In fact, I just started today. I felt strongly last night that I had to fast for the salvation of my family.

I struggled a lot today as my body reacted to the lack of food. By God’s grace, I managed to pull through. However, just as I was thinking how to keep this up, I saw your entry! PTL!

Thanks for sharing. I hope to be able to fast for 3 days as a start.

Cheers,
Jame
Stanley Tan on December 6th, 2009 12:03 am

To: not from mega church,

One thing I pointed out, hmmm… maybe coded message? Yah
I put it in a nice way.
How many of us can really partake the followship with the sufferings of Lord Jesus, so that we can know the power of His resurrection?

Phlippians 3:10-11 “that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if by any means, I may attain to the resurrecting from the dead.”

Many would had run away, just like Prophet Jonah, the rebellious prophet; who needed to be throw into the “biggest Jail house” of the lifetime in order to repent and do God’s work.

To: not from mega church,
Which part do you think, I pointed out which is not correct relating to a certain preaching?
Ehh…. I don’t think I want to reveal here, because people without God’s love and grace will use my information to criticise and do the vidious attack again. Cheap grace.

Anyway, God bless you. Hope you’d found conviction within and repent. Remember, it is not the flesh and blood that we are against.
” For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12
To - on December 6th, 2009 12:54 am

Who are you?

Coming to the blog of a person, you probably dont know personally, and making all sorts of attacks…

For all the controvesies, Pastor Kong at least has the boldness to stand by what he says.

What about you?

Why dont you start with telling us who you are, or if you have genuine concerns, we could even meet and talk.

It is much better than hiding in the dark and hurl mud,

These are the acts of cowardly vandals.

Or can you not rise above that?
Madhatter on December 6th, 2009 12:59 am

“And I trust that is what Michaellow Amy Apple are trying hard to do to help new formed Christians.” By -

Hahah!

That statement made me laugh.

By attacking a preacher, michael, amy and apple are trying to help ‘new formed Christians’ (whatever you mean by that)?

They themselves have never anything constructive,

It is so easy to just accuse and criticise… and you are saying that their actions ar helping new christians?

You must be as deluded as them.

Or perhaps, you are them.

if you get what i mean,
EPL Fan on December 6th, 2009 1:02 am

I think this is a great post!

I just can’t believe why everybody got so many things to say! Simple post also can get so many comments!

These critics simply got nothing better to do. Can come back everyday to check their comeents also. Really nothing better to do with their lives!
Sophia Lim on December 6th, 2009 1:10 am

Dear Parent,

I am a parent but I feel so sorry for you.

Your writing has revealed that you are parochial and dirty-minded.

While you pretend to give us an exposition on what laviciousness is, citing references and quotes, your agenda to relate Sun’s video to it is flimsy and irrational.

We are no fools. We know what the definition of laviciousness is, There is no need for you to ‘educate’ us on that.

What is interesting is that you have jumped to the conclusion that Sun’s MTV is lavicious with just 2 support.

1. The dancers have moves that to you seem like karma sutra positions.

To that, I just got to say, to the pure all things are pure, Honestly, I am no expert on karma sutra as you purported yourself to be, The moves do not seduce me or cause me to sin,

2. To a lot of Christian parents, Sun’s mtv is lavicious.

To that I would say? Huh? To you maybe, but who are the lot of Christian parents you alluded to.

I can also say, to a lot of Christians parents the MTV is NOT lavicious. So whereforth is your evidence?

Anyway most Christian parents, unlike you, may not be as well-versed in karma sutra to pick up allusions to it,

Hence, your extraordinary long post rest on 2 ridiculous evidences that is intended to mislead people to serve your agenda.

I think you should take a leaf from your daughter’s purer perspective.
She is right.
It is just entertainment.
Chen Yi Xin on December 6th, 2009 1:17 am

To ■not from mega church

Your postings are disgraceful,

You claim that you are not from a mega church but your posts are constantly referring to Pastor Joseph Prince from New Creation Church,

Either you are lying, which is even worse, or you are really not from NCC.

If you are not, can you please stop disgracing the church by your post and pretending to be speaking up for Pastor Prince?

Who appointed you to defend him? Surely, there is no need.

Your actions are putting the church is a very bad light,

And to all who claim that you are not from NCC but keep alluding to it, please stop.

You are not helping.
Nanz Chong on December 6th, 2009 1:55 am

To : Rara Roma and your “team ” here (you know who you are )

I have been City Harvest for 10 years now. I rarely missed any weekly service , hence I earned some rights to tell you this : In last 10 years (that is about 520 sermons) that i sat under Dr. KONG HEE’s ministry ,I have not once heard him “forcing anyone to fast” nor saying an ounce of Self-glorifying words . Not even his wife. If you are just doing the “hear-say” –bless u ! If your intent is bad , letting junk come forth your mouths by assumption, time to buy mirrors for some reflections.

Dont disturb the sweet spirit i have enjoyed in this ministry the last 10 years ! Be focus on your own businesses and ministries….
Hsin Pei on December 6th, 2009 2:15 am

Thanks Pastor! You really spoke with such clarity to the subject of fasting.
ManInBlack on December 6th, 2009 9:41 am

TO ■Sleepyhead on December 5th, 2009 10:08 am

I think you are 2000 years too late. We are not offering KONG HEE for cruxification, no no, not even on the Sabbath. We spar anyday the adversary attack the boss.

Go back to sleep zzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
San on December 6th, 2009 10:39 am

Hi Pastor,

Thank you for another excellent blog entry. You do not just talk the talk, but literally walk the walk!

I am inspired by you to make fasting a regular part of my own Christian life!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 6th, 2009 10:53 am

Kong Hee,

I am sad that you wrote this article.

Jesus has commended us not to tell anyone that you are fasting. But when you fast, you always tell other people that you are fasting through your Church’s services, facebook, twitter, etc, and now you even tell the world on this blog. According to Jesus’ words you have get your rewards already and there will be no further rewards for your such fasting in Heaven!!

In the Bible only those Pharasees who fast so openly to let everyone knows there such “righteous” acts. Since you fast as openly, I can find no differences between you and those Pharasees in the Bible.

I really think that you need to bring back the Son of God back to your church. Do you know what is Grace? Grace means all things are already done on the Cross. If all have been done for us, there is no need for us to fast. In the Bible someone asked Jesus why his disciples do not fast, and Jesus replied them that since he is with the disciples, the disciples no need to fast. So the fact that you and CHCers fast is because all of you don’t have the Son of God in your hearts! It is high time for you and CHCers to bring back the Son of God and his Grace to your church!!
To Shut Up Please on December 6th, 2009 11:07 am

Wow..

Your theology is that we don’t need to fast because of grace??

?

I AM SAD FOR YOU!
& for all who believe in your lie.

You do well if you
1. Examine yourself
2. Shut up please
soraya mohede on December 6th, 2009 11:11 am

Pastor Kong Hee,

I have been blessed by your sermon last week , and I feel that the holly spirit is working while we praise and worship.

By the way this is the first time I went to city church in Singapore, because at that time me and my family was in holiday, and on Sunday morning we went to visit your church, and after we came home to our hotel, we feel very different.

Thank you and God bless you abundantly!
albert on December 6th, 2009 1:07 pm

We don’t need to fast because of grace?

Peter fast, Paul fast, church of antioch fast

So they are not under grace?

And the whole world know they fasted. Its in the bible

Does it make them a pharisee?

Here we see the errors of cheap grace teaching becoming more obvious
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 6th, 2009 1:38 pm

Reply to albert

I wonder why the Bible Knowledge of CHCers like you are so below average.

Bible recorded “Peter fast, Paul fast, church of antioch fast” not because Peter, Paul and church of antioch recorded a “Daily of Fasting” and share with all the word, so that Luke know they fast and record in the Bible. YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG! They never told Luke that they fast; Instead, Luke know this SUPERNATURALLY that the Holy Ghost told him and write in Luke and Acts. I WONDER WHETHER CHCers LIKE YOU WOULD BELIEVE BIBLE IS INSPIRED BY THE HOLY GHOST rather than by human knowledge!!!

Cheap Grace – stop accusing people like your pastor did!! Grace is not cheap but grace is free. We believe in free Grace, not cheap grace! Free Grace means that all have been done on the cross, and we can never earns God’s favour or anointing through our acts – like fasting. Kong Hee’s preaching that by fasting we can get more anointing is a lie!! He is quite similar to salvation by work or earn God’s anointing by work. IS CHC BELIEVE IN “HEAVY GRACE” DOCTRINE???
to albert on December 6th, 2009 2:06 pm

your comments are funny. think and evaluate everything you read please
ManInBlack on December 6th, 2009 2:14 pm

TO:■SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 6th, 2009 1:38 pm

For you, Incredible Grace – no need to fast lah. Don’t angry go back to your church. Cool Cool…cooool ! Go have your watan mee and ice cream ok ok boy boy. Your Mummy still loves you.
Sleepyhead on December 6th, 2009 3:28 pm

To ManinBlack

You said
ManInBlack on December 6th, 2009 9:41 am
TO ■Sleepyhead on December 5th, 2009 10:08 am
I think you are 2000 years too late. We are not offering KONG HEE for cruxification, no no, not even on the Sabbath. We spar anyday the adversary attack the boss.
Go back to sleep zzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I was just merely encouraging everyone, including myself that we need to prepare our hearts to come before Jesus in worship so that we can hear from Him through the preaching of the word of God after all this is what Pst Kong has been teaching us ever since he started CHC.

Well at least this was what I have been hearing since 1992 when I first came to CHC and have been around ever since to see the church grew from 600 people to 27 000 pple. It was because of the grace of God and our love for Jesus and His reality in our lives that has graced us.

It was what I have experienced and saw then I am more convinced that it is not by might or our cleverness and gifts that has brought us to such a place where we are able to influence positively for Christ. It is a very humbling experience if you are to asked any of the CHC old-timers when we started out with nothing in our pockets but our hearts were full of love for Jesus and people.

It is honourable that you are very supportive of Pst Kong and Sun, zone supervisor and CGL and CGC, CG helpers, CG members, and also always be supportive of the ones whom we loved, especially our family.

However, no matter how great a love that is poured into our lives by any human, none can be compared to Jesus, the savour of our soul and also the lover of our soul.

He is the Son of God who died for you and I and for everyone.

He is the One who went to the cross…

Pst always taught us that we are to be better and not bitter… He taught that we can disagree but don’t have to be disagreeable…

I was reminded of the following passage:

Joshua 5:13-14 (New King James Version)

13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?”

14 So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.”
And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and said to Him, “What does my Lord say to His servant?

Joshua was bend on war because of the responsibility that he was placed in but he had an encounter of Jesus and Joshua was transformed from army general to that of a servant.

It is always an encounter with Jesus that helps us to navigate in life that is full of different perspectives, different opinions and in a world that bad things happened to good people and good things happened to bad people…

I wish I could say more but that would be out of place for me. I believe that your CGL would be able to shed more perspectives.

I believe in perspectives and I also believe in personal choices. More perspectives help us to make better choices.

Jesus’ perspective, a heaven’s perspective, helps us, all of us, to navigate in broken down world. The comfort and confidence that we can have is that Jesus would never leave us nor forsake us.

ManinBlack, I really appreciate your love for Pst Kong and Sun and for CHC…

I pray that your love and mine for Jesus is always be even greater as we seek Him and follow Him and hear Him…

Have a great week.

cheers,

sleepyhead
Damien Loh on December 6th, 2009 4:17 pm

Well said!

To Shut Up Please on December 6th, 2009 11:07 am

Wow..

Your theology is that we don’t need to fast because of grace??

?

I AM SAD FOR YOU!
& for all who believe in your lie.

You do well if you
1. Examine yourself
2. Shut up please
Damien Loh on December 6th, 2009 4:18 pm

Seems like Shut Up Please can also be included in Chen Yi Xin’s plea.

Chen Yi Xin on December 6th, 2009 1:17 am

To ■not from mega church

Your postings are disgraceful,

You claim that you are not from a mega church but your posts are constantly referring to Pastor Joseph Prince from New Creation Church,

Either you are lying, which is even worse, or you are really not from NCC.

If you are not, can you please stop disgracing the church by your post and pretending to be speaking up for Pastor Prince?

Who appointed you to defend him? Surely, there is no need.

Your actions are putting the church is a very bad light,

And to all who claim that you are not from NCC but keep alluding to it, please stop.

You are not helping.
ManInBlack on December 6th, 2009 4:38 pm

TO:■Sleepyhead on December 6th, 2009 3:28 pm

Thank you for your sharing. See you are well versed.
You can go slumber until your next preparation of your heart for the worship ,,, I shall keep watch and not lay back from the rascals who dishonor our Senior Pastor and his wife. Obviously we are annointed differently.

You go pray for these people and counsel them in your gifted way.
I’ll do the quarter-back with the gift I have. I love people but I don’t take too kindly to bent ‘terrorist’.
.
No reply needed. Thanks.
Jesus is Lord!
a muse on December 6th, 2009 5:32 pm

i believe in cheap grace
so i will go to Pastor Kong’s blog
hurl unfounded accusations at him
insult his wife
slander his church
mock at his members
lie about the church i come from
and go to bed
knowing that God will forgive me
because
i believe in cheap grace

I wake up the next day
and i repeat my deeds again
because
i believe
in cheap grace
Lois on December 6th, 2009 5:35 pm

A muse…

great poetry
& straight to the heart!
ouch…

haha…

nice one!
To ■a muse on December 6th, 2009 5:32 pm on December 6th, 2009 6:14 pm

Gotcha. You evil motives exposed.
sad.... on December 6th, 2009 6:17 pm

this message is for Pastor Kong Hee only. I will not be responding to any other commentators here.. So I hope Kong Hee reads this or that someone responsible from CHC brings this to his attention. My sister was a Christian who moved to Buddhism. She said the simple faith of worshippers who go and pray for peace for themselves n others appealed to her. She finds Christians the problem, not the faith itself. May I suggest Pst Kong Hee, that you disallow comments if you do not intend to reply or clarify these comments. Reading the comments from both your supporters and detractors, I find myself wishing that my sister and any non-christian will not come upon your blogs and the comments therein. It does not edify anyone and it reflects the nastiness and “judgementalism” of both sides. In fact I find the nastiness of your supporters even more off-putting, given that they are going down to the level they accuse your detractors of having gone down to. Seriously all of you who have written in nasty tones, go and think if what you wrote has glorified Jesus in any way. For detractors, does it really help if you denigrate a pastor, even if his views are not entirely right in your view? Jesus himself said “if they are not against us, they are for us”. So if Kong Hee brings people to the knowledge of Christ’s saving grace, can you not let him off even if he has made a mistake “justifying” his wife’s career choice? For supporters of Kong Hee, did Jesus not say “turn the other cheek”? Your nastiness to any detractor is appalling. Pls let your faith and devotion be to Jesus , not to your pastor. By all means, show him your support and love, but do you have to insult every comment that does not show undying loyalty and love to your Pastor? Must this be a Prince vs Kong Hee bash up ? Boy am I glad I’m not from a megachurch. And i feel embarrassed as a Christian if any non-Christian reads these comments and laughs at Christians…at our “smallness” and vindictiveness.I guess I will get bashed. But I assure u that I will not respond to bashers. I seriously want your Pastor, the owner of this blog to either clarify / reply or disallow comments before more damage is done to the body of Christ which is what the universal church is about…
David Ngu on December 6th, 2009 7:14 pm

Dear Pastor,

Thanks for sharing the truth and valuable experience about the fasting. As a Christian, I strongly believe it is important for everyone to learn fast & pray. Great Bible heroes all did fast & pray. I’m gonna fast & pray unto the Lord for this week. :)
Sleepyhead on December 6th, 2009 7:17 pm

Dear ManInBlack,

This will be my last post in this blog.

I am not against anyone defending and supporting Pst Kong and Sun. In fact, I have been supporting Pst Kong and Sun since 1992 in every way you could imagine.

If you are to take a second look of my comments, all I merely suggested was that we spend time preparing our hearts for the weekend services. And reminding myself and all of us that Jesus is the reason, having witness first hand of God’s grace upon us.

Even though I am on the same team as you and have been an ardent supporter for 17 years and I am slammed because I encouraged everyone to seek God over the weekend.

Honestly, I am sadden… but that is just me…

I do sincerely wish you all the best in all that you do…
(I just want to clarify also that there is absolutely no undertone of sarcasm at all which I have noted throughout the blog, esp malicious ones.)

Take care

Sleepyhead
sad.... on December 6th, 2009 11:22 pm

a muse,

reading what u wrote and having heard what kong hee said condemning the pastor who preached abt grace, I can understand why those from the other mega church are upset with CHC. I think what you wrote is really uncalled for. Here are defenders of Kong Hee condemning others who they see as putting down their beloved Pastor. Yet you have no qualms mocking other believers who emphasise God’s grace and calling it cheap grace instead. What’s the difference between you mocking people believing in God’s grace and those you see as questioning your pastor’s intepretation of Job and the cultural mandate. …It saddens me to read what’s written here by the likes of a muse, tanahhuat and maninblack….Be more gracious , cos that’s what God has given us , His grace. Nothing we do can ever earn us salvation. God gave us Jesus through His grace. We don’t deserve His death on the cross for our sins… so pls be gracious in your comments. Jesus is Lord and we are all His, not Kong Hee’s nor Joseph Prince’s…Let’s glorify God in how we use our words…If you think you have scored a point defending Pst Kong Hee, let me tell you that you have made Jesus look bad cos His followers should be above all this nastiness and petty mudslinging. Shame on us all! Myself included for having to write this…
albert on December 6th, 2009 11:59 pm

Dear sad,

you raised a very valid point that we should love each other. After all the world will know that we are Jesus disciples, that we love one another.

Having said that however, it does not mean that conflict should be avoided at any cost.
1. The apostles question Peter after he ate with gentiles
2. Paul rebuked Cephas (Peter) for being a hypocrite
3. Paul and Barnabas had sharp disagreement and went two separate ways.

I am not a staff of CHC and I have no right to speak on their behalf regarding the cheap grace teaching.

However, In my own personal opinion, I am against such a teaching.
I am not against any church or any pastor, but I am against the teaching.

Because what you believe will have impact on what you do and the outcome of your life

And the comments that was written by others seems to imply that you don’t need to fast because you are under grace.

which seems to imply that you dont need to do anything or take your relationship with God seriously since you are under grace,
(correct me if i am wrong, i would love to hear views from NCC members about this)

Don’t you see how a wrong concept on grace can affect the lifestyle of its member?

This will have serious impact on people’s destiny. (It will deal more damage than watching Adam Lambert grabbing his ….)

Bible stated that Jesus will demand accountability on how we use our talents

And he also state that we need to build our house upon the rock by hearing and DOING what he preached.

James said that faith without works is dead

An over emphasis on grace will cause people to miss their life calling and destiny.

So its not about competition between mega church, or showing support on our own pastor. Its about defending what is the right thing to believe
TKH on December 7th, 2009 12:25 am

Dear Sad,

I hold the same view that we should not hurl false accusation against one another … but I do hope you can see that there are a few particular individuals (maybe 2 or 3, I think, assuming multiple identities) causing unnecessary divisions.

The same few persons come with an hidden agenda to discredit a man of God. It is obvious that even from a topic like fasting, they will attempt to revive their views on the previous topic, bringing in irrelevant points on the topic. Such behaviours are sadly un-Christlike, even though they may claim to be defending the truth.

I do want to encourage all to be wise in our words, let’s refute in love, and not become judgmental of one another.

God bless …

TKH
sad.... on December 7th, 2009 12:25 am

Hi Albert,

thanks for your reply. The problem abt defending what is right vs what is wrong is that everyone claims to be right and that the other is wrong. If you read elsewhere, there is much to be said about grace. Nothing we do can save us. It is God’s grace that saved us. That doesn’t mean that we keep sinning as the bible obviously says we should not sin, in fact we should flee from temptation and not have any hint of sexual immorality. If you read the blog on wholesome shallowness , which i believe started this mud-slinging ; it seems that Kong Hee is in fact suggesting that being wholesome = shallowness and being unwholesome = reaching out to the masses , even if it hints at sexual immorality. So we can argue till the cow comes home. At the end of the day, God will tell us if Prince or Kong Hee is right. (or that both are right) If CHC members feel that they or their Pastor have been “wronged”, NCC members are entitled to feel the same way with that “cheap grace” statement. Personally I feel that it was not cheap grace that redeemed us. Christ paid a very high price for oru redemption. We should show God’s love to those around us through words and deeds. I believe too that michaellow who has been badly condemned here is also fighting for what he believes is right. He believes that Pst Kong Hee is misquoting scripture to support his case, so by that reason he should keep on fighting for what he believes is right. And it will never end , the comments here will reach 1000+ and no one is edified. Perhaps Satan is the only one who wins seeing Christians being “exposed” for their talk of love but showing how their words can “kill” fellow christians…So I would humbly urge each one of us to be mindful that our words here reflect Jesus to the non-Christian or pre-Christian who stumbles onto this blog. A wise pastor told me that God perhaps reaches different people thru different denominations bcos He made us all different. I would like to suggest that God brings us all to him through different pastors like Kong Hee and Prince. So let’s agree to disagree instead of bashing each other and inadvertently bringing shame to our faith and our Lord Jesus….
Faith on December 7th, 2009 12:28 am

Dear Pastor,

Just want to thank you for an encouraging article … your blog never cease to shed new insight in my walk with the Lord.

Thank you for being such a great Pastor!

Faith
ManInBlack on December 7th, 2009 4:16 am

TO: ■sad…. on December 7th, 2009 12:25 am

Quote: “If you read the blog on wholesome shallowness , which i believe started this mud-slinging ; it seems that Kong Hee is in fact suggesting that being wholesome = shallowness and being unwholesome = reaching out to the masses , even if it hints at sexual immorality.”
Unquote.

Hypocrite and judgmental under the guise of humility.
Tong Yan on December 7th, 2009 4:39 am

Dearest Pastor Kong,

thank you for sharing, i’m greatly encouraged! I feel that i can fast more (in attitude and in degree of fasting). By listing all the main points, I can remind myself the importance and goodness of this spiritual discipline.

Thank you again and thank God for this entry! =)

Love,
Tong Yan
Tong Yan on December 7th, 2009 5:04 am

To brothers and sisters in Christ:

I really think that there is no need to argue over here, it bears bad testimony to friends and family… the one most important thing that we should observe is to follow God and be witnesses for Him!

Fasting- is a spiritual discipline just like praying and reading the Bible. Jesus rose from the dead and is now sitted on the right hand of the Father. His work and ministry is done, and we the children of God has now the responsibility to continue His tasks as we are Jesus’ disciples. Amen?

So let’s be good testimonies, I believe that sharing about my experiences would be more useful than just teaching theology. For me, fasting and praying is essential for many of the events and areas of my life. It is the surest way to grow closer to God =)

Be it fasting for family, friends, church or personal breakthrough, I am challenged to fast even more (in attitude and degree of fasting). This entry of Pastor Kong I believed is very timely for me, when I feel that I’m being complacent in the area of fasting. This entry really encourages me, the point whereby Pastor mentioned that without the spiritual disciplines, we’ll get complacent and dull.

It’s true, in the Kingdom of God- I believe that we always progress just like our relationship with God. E.g. to love God more, serve God and people more , fast and pray more and more! This is an impt truth that I’ve realised after a few years in the faith… The Bible says God do not want us to be lukewarm (in our spiritual disciplines- How can you truly love someone without obedience and sacrifice/giving?) and it also mentions that the kingdom of God is a narrow way. Jesus taught us the disciplines so we can be empower to keep onto the narrow way. They help us in our walk! Ever wonder why we don’t read the Bible once and for all but we are to read it everyday?

I believe that is what Pastor Kong wants for us, to be more intimate with God we have to be more discipline- we are called to be disciples. He is experiencing breakthroughs and blessings and anointing, why? Listen to the man of God! One of the easiest way to success is to learn from success stories of others. Pastor Kong is a great leader and shepherd of God, I’m not defending him just because he is my senior Pastor. But because I find true doctrines taught n church and his life an example for the christian world to follow.

Yes I am not ashame, that God is rising us to the next level, be it in CHC or not. We christians are to take the world and be rulers- to bring God’s order into it! We shouldn’t go around judge how people do it, if we have zero opinions about how other churches does it, why do we have to get jugde for having same gospel but different methods?

There’s no time to lose, we must be in touch with the strong anointing and power of God. Even though fasting is not easy, step by step, we can change the world for Jesus and continue HIs work my friends! Let us keep on keeping on! =)
sad.... on December 7th, 2009 9:42 am

to maninblack , thanks for confirming what others have mentioned abt CHC “devotees”. Like Sleepyhead b4 me, i will not take offence at what you wrote. Your blind devotion to your pastor is what worries me. Nonetheless, I pray that you grow in the faith and seek Jesus personally and grow in discernment. I guess I should focus on what is good and right . Been interesting following this blog since i was pointed to it by a new Christian who asked me abt megachurches , but I know when something starts to poison one’s mind…. Just glad I’m in a church with a group of loving and learned elders with whom the pastor works closely … . Hope not too many non christians chance upon this blog and get turned off. My first post to Kong Hee to disable comments still stands. Pastor Kong Hee – if u read this , pls do something / say something to your devoted followers. It is well and good to enjoy the devotion of 27000 loving followers, but think of the larger body of Christ and more importantly, the non-believers who see nothing but mudslinging in your blog comments. Blessings to all and I hope the mudslinging stops !
conflict of interest. on December 7th, 2009 10:02 am

Conflict of interest, conflict of interest.

Again, we confuse the matter of spiritual fasting and Pastor blatant promotion of Sun’s CD in Wish No. 3.

Sorry, is God a vending machine?

Step 1 Put in 21 coins, each coin representing a day of fasting.

Step 2 make 3 wishes.

Step 3, Rub the aladdin lamp.

You wish will come true?

Is this what Fasting has become? To gain monetary wealth and acceptance in the Music Awards?????

It is again a conflict of interest when you mix spirituality with a secular music wish.

So if I am a CHC devotee, the message is clear – all you 27,000 please buy the CDs when it comes out so that my FAST is not wasted??

The wish should be ended with a Thy will be done.

Pastor is a man of God . And a business man (as mentioned in his blog synopsis). And a masterful writer.

No line is an afterthought.

I wonder why Sun music success is parked under Revival & Church Growth in the blog above??

Sorry, I am just speaking my mind. It is not me talking about Sun again. It is just awkward that the secular monetary wishes of a businessman is again mixed into a masterful treatise on fasting.

I don’t get it.
SQ on December 7th, 2009 10:42 am

It amuses me to learn that these critical people are having a love hate relationship with pastor. They will read every blog and follow him and check out everything he says but add a little critical point to it.

If you want attention, you got it. But if you want us to love you and reach out to you, then you have to repent, submit and allow God to speak to you.

I really feel sorry for you because you guys must be leading a very miserable life. As for those of us in chc, we are still happy and loving our pastors more than ever. Let’s have a breakthrough attendance, salvation and a great Christmas celebration!
Josephine on December 7th, 2009 12:03 pm

Dear Pastor;

I have some questions in mind. My daughters often fall sick lately. After reading your post, I m thinking of fasting for a day to pray for them. Can I do that? I never fast before.

Thanks.
ManInBack on December 7th, 2009 3:05 pm

TO:■sad…. on December 7th, 2009 9:42 am

I did not engage you, you mentioned my name first on your writeup.

You packaged your words very skilfully but they are full of poisons and slated to one side. Of course you are entitled to your opinions. We don’t know what happenned between the two Snr.Pastors but I think its up to them to reconcile at their high level.

You symphatized with some of these followers of NCC without looking at the most vile and deregatory terms they used on Pastor Kong and his wife and you even suggested that it was started by one of his Blogs, Do you see anyone of us here mocking Pastor Prince in retaliation – no / we respect all Pastors.

But these members / or non-members / or pseudo-wannabes NCC people first started the attacks relentlessly with unrestrained tongues calling Kong Hee and wife all sorts of totally vile and disrespectully names. Don’t believe me. Check it out yourself before you make any simplistic conclusions.

And you accused me to be a blind devotee of CHC and Kong Hee – wrong, You are not as holy as you sound by the text of your writeup. See, if your are what you sounded to be, you wouldn’t get sucked into engaging me – because I got no beef with you.

They started these gutter mudslinging against CHC and Kong Hee first. Agree to disagree – cool no problem. But they came to this personal blog of Kong Hee and started the war (like Hamas + Hisbollahs attacking Isreal) with unrestrain words. Christians resolve coflicts in a proper way. But if they choose ’swords’ then it shall be ’swords for swords’, We are not the attackers. We are merely defending our Pastor and his wife, If they don’t like my Pastor and his wife (style or activity) – no problem, just keep their vulgarities to themselves.

If you are fair, you should write to Pastor Prince to call off these vulgar attakers; like you said for the sake of Chrisianity. You also have to be fair, turning the other cheek goes for both sides – unless you are one of them, Then truce shall prevail. Its up to you sister.

I rest my case. This shall be the last entry I make on this subject blog. I shall not reply. I call on everybody to call it truce , lay down your ’swords’ and have peace.

One advice only I take from you:
I shall repent from the harsh words that I have used and shall go back to my prayer room. I urge ALL parties to do the same.
In Jesus’ name. Amen,
Calvin on December 7th, 2009 3:21 pm

Wow Pastor :) Thk you for a great and informative entry
Friends,
Lets not veer away from the actual purpose for this entry.
personally i learned alot more about fasting throught reading this post. i hope it will bless you as it had blessed me =)
cheers
Calvin
Simplegal on December 7th, 2009 3:50 pm

Great post, Pst! Truly blessed by the blog. It’s spiritual and offer practical reasons to fast.

Personally I try to fast at least once every week to keep my sensitivity to the leading of the Holy Spirit. I find it hard to be quiet abt it as there’ll always be breakfast, lunch, dinner. When my colleagues asked me why am I not eating, the only answer I can give is that I’m fasting.

I feel when Jesus said about not letting others know we are fasting is really to encourage us not to be hypocrite, fast only to “show-off”. Again, it’s the attitude that matters.

FB and tweets are ways to express ourselves isn’t it? I don’t know about you, when I’m happy or sad, I post something to be “heard”. I suppose it applies to having hunger pangs? Writing something positive will spur you on and keep you “accountable”. Haha…

Anyway, fasting is a good thing and God thing. Let’s do it according to our own faith. Pst is just trying to share his thoughts and experience about it… Chill all!
not from megachurch on December 7th, 2009 4:06 pm

I am not from a mega church.

Never attended service by Pastor Prince. Never know him before.

Came across the Cheap Grace youtube from Unwholesome shallowness comment section in the Kong’s treatise about Sun.

Thank you all for clarifying that the post was about going to extremes in church teachings.

Good to note that all the CHC voices here supports Pastor Kong in his youtube on Cheap Grace, and nothing was wrong about his tone in speaking about another brother in
Christ. So either something is terribly wrong with me and I am too too sensitive a soul, or something is terribly wrong with all of you in CHC. It must be me cos I am alone here.

Stanley – I apologise. My bad. Yes, you do speak up where you think something is wrong. I applaud you.

God bless you all. I will now leave quietly.

Yes, this is Pastor’s personal blog and he is very generous to allow this comment section to help clarify my doubts on scriptures / non-scriptures / God’s word / Man’s word.

Josephine, do see a doctor for your daughters. Your daughters need you to be strong and alert for them. See your pastor and talk to him. Do not depend just on this blog alone.

Take care.
Andy Zhu on December 7th, 2009 4:14 pm

Dear Pastor Kong,

Thank you for such a wonderful sharing. I was SOT09 student and actually I asked you about the fasting during the meet-up session. Praise the lord, now I got the full picture of the fasting and obtained more strength when I am fasting. Again, we love you and your family. God blessing!
Andy
AAL on December 7th, 2009 5:10 pm

Way to go, MyNameIsAhHuat !

At one point of time, I decided to keep quiet, cause I figured, the more we “sheeps” tried to protect our sheperd and the family, the attacks of the “goats” will get uglier ….

But, after reading your comments, I can’t stop it but give you a pat on your back… way to go brother !

Ang
a muse on December 7th, 2009 6:18 pm

To sad,

First of all, kudos to you for all the time you spent on the blog & writing such lengthy comments.
Surely it is telling of a person who is deeply interested, for whatever reasons, on this topic.

For the record, I am saved by grace, through faith.
I mean no disrespect to the precious redeeming grace of Jesus, which motivates me to live a lifestyle of prayer, fasting & daily repentance,work out my salvation with fear and trembling.

It is the loose interpretation of grace as indicative of wilful sinning & absolution from the need for confession and repentance that I come against.

I call it cheap grace.

I don’t think you subscribe to that, though I may be wrong.

Neither have I insuinated any church or pastor in my post.

It is very interesting that you, on the other hand, seem to have associated my post with a particular church & pastor. I wonder why you made the leap of logic with such ease & speed.

However, I come against cheap grace, mockers & liars.

And I am not ashamed of that.
KT on December 7th, 2009 6:30 pm

Great post on fasting. Enriching & informative.

After reading the comments of various ones, (apart from the outright criticisms) really hope that the genuine concerns & needs of some readers could be addressed.

Well, pastor Kong does teach on seeing a need & meeting them. Hopefully the genuine readers get their doubts & concerns answered.

I’m personally going on a fast after reading this blog post. Hoping to draw closer to God through this period.
michaellow on December 7th, 2009 8:33 pm

FearGod ahhh. You got say“It is obvious that your intention is to cricticize every post that Ps Kong made”.

HKPeng got say: Ekcherly, my main point oways is oni to mention that your lautar always like to quote verses out of context, like the one on fasting. I oso demonstrate how to check if verse out of context. I got engage his thesis point. That is wrong? So far, even got one of your 27,000 devotees got respond to anything I got say with reason and logic? Oni I see is all ad hominem attacks, ‘poor English’ lahh, ‘no theogical education’ lahhh, But got show me my argument is wrong? We can engage and discuss ideas like we rational men tio boh? But all your 27,000 devotees got do is froth at mouth, sneer and bare fangs when they got refer to me.

You got say, “I would like to encourage you guys to really search your heart, because I think you have come to a conclusion in your mind, even before you read the content.”

HKPeng got say : I got thank you for your encouraging post. I oso got search heart. I oso got care for purity of God’s kingdom. So I got engage your pastor’s points, try to understand his exposition, see if got any exposition or if just presumption oni. You say that is criticism? I say engagement can? After all, your 27,000 devotees is oso free to engage my points or make counterpoints to what I got say. But mano eh mano with reason and logic? No ad hominem can?

Mebbe you not happy I got question your lautar’s credentials. But gold no need fear fire tio boh? Real tangible things is easy to prove tio boh?
michaellow on December 7th, 2009 8:43 pm

Dear CC ahhhh. You got say “HEY: Pastor Kong has been fasting since 1986. He has every right to share what he knows about this topic. AND only if you have fasted as long, then please write on this too, or even comment about it.”

hokkienpeng got say this: hehehehehe, so by same logic, since the lautar never got suffer so long, he oso cannot write on suffering tio boh? He got good life, where got suffering, so how to write about suffering? You got see how absurd your logic is like or not? So counsellors never been divorced oso cannot counsel people in divorce…Hehehehehehe
michaellow on December 7th, 2009 8:44 pm

Dear Stumbled ahhh “I also kay po, went to google this michael low. Eh… are you from Far Eastern Bible college? R u their spokesman?” You mean you got find a michael low there ahhh?? That means must be me??? Errrr, got beard oni you call father is it? Hehehehehehe,

I oso just google can see at least got 50 names of Michael Low on the net, lawyer, student, salesman, some more others. Is very common name you know? So why you got mention Far Eastern Bible College ahhh? If you got think I am with them, that means surely you got bad experience with this college tio boh? Why so hard to forgive ahhh? Same like you lautar tio boh? Call his fellow pastors, ‘members of the religious fraternity” some more got parting shot oso
michaellow on December 7th, 2009 8:47 pm

Wahhhhh! How come I got this comment when I post ahhhh? michaellow on Your comment is awaiting moderation. December 7th, 2009 8:40 pm.

If ask me to speak my mind how come must undergo moderation ahhh?
Weng Kexin on December 7th, 2009 9:33 pm

To the forum moderator,

Perhaps its a good idea to moderate comments and require commentators to regiser.

While still allowing for comments, it will hold the poster accountable to what they say.

Which is good, because if a person dare not stand by what he says with his identity revealed, he is better off not saying it.
FSM on December 7th, 2009 9:37 pm

I second the motion.

It will prevent the likes like michaellow to post childish & inane comments.
To micheaellow on December 7th, 2009 9:39 pm

eh michaellow,

you delusional or something?

kena moderation still can post that you kena moderation?

haha!
michaellow on December 7th, 2009 9:39 pm

I got support what Wang Kexin say. Then we oso can see if devotees willing to stand by what they got say… But can we oso ask lautar to be accountable for what he got say here? can he oso answer to queries that people got make of him? Or this one got expect oni devotees to answer on lautar behalf..
michaellow on December 7th, 2009 9:42 pm

This query is because we must play fair tio boh? You want hold me accountable for my words is OK one. But I oso must be able hold your lautar accountable for his words tio boh?
To michaellow on December 7th, 2009 9:49 pm

Can!
Lets play at your blog.
Address?
michaellow on December 7th, 2009 9:54 pm

Actually, my main query is just to ask what sort of college you lautar got get his MDiv and Doctorate of Theology? That is childish and inane. I got check website. Oni got postal address not campus address. I got check accreditation. Not accredited in US.

My query oways got meet with evasion and ad hominem. You got body sick, you go doctor. You sure want see if doctor go proper medical college tio boh. You want make sure he got know how to cut your body tio boh?

But for your soul-care, you not bother ahh? Never bother to check if pastor is trained to handle scripture mehhh? Not to forget, oni your lautar post first show his MDiv and his Doctor of Theology degree. If like some of your devotees got say, they never see man qualifications, then why your lautar bother to get one? And if he want to get one, why he not bother to get one from accreditated college. And if degree is credible, so hard to say yes it is mehhh? So hard to prove mehhhh?

So far I got keep asking this question, not even got one devotee got dare to answer. Oni fudge, throw smoke, sneer, use ad hominem…

And you want say I post childish and inane comments, please oso look at your own devotees comments about other people before I got even start posts here. Everytime your devotees got point finger at my sin, you never notice is your own three fingers got point back at you
Gordon on December 7th, 2009 9:57 pm

Haha! Good one!

Yes micky, we are waiting…
be fair mah…

you already talk so much at this blog
must go adjourn to yours to contiune mah

like you say, must be fair. tio bo?

or you too chicken? =)

thinking of a way to squirm out of this question? haha
Frank Lee on December 7th, 2009 10:00 pm

this michaellow super funny lah man
i thought i retire liao but see him so hilarious i cannot resist
let me start with a qn to mickey & frens

Then you point at others you never see your other 3 fingers of your hand meh?
huh
huh

talk so big like you reali very good.
funny leh you.
michaellow on December 7th, 2009 10:06 pm

but I think squirming is your 27,000 devotees lahhh. Why no one dare to answer my query ahhh? Can what I got dread to think is really true ahhh? Is it because CHC got no way to answer college is real or virtual ahhhh… so they want chase me away ahhh!

Hehehehehehe.

Since oni got smoke here but no substance, I got wish you goodnight. Maybe God will speak to you, maybe not. I remember God’s word got say one time God even tell Jeremiah not to pray for his people any more. Wahhhhh, must be real serious to have even God give up on the people ahhh! Worse thing is the people they ownself donch know God awredy give up on them…
To michaellow on December 7th, 2009 10:06 pm

The greatest IRONY is that michaellow think he is very smart by using the term ad hominem argument again and again and again and again, but HE is the one who is commiting that fallacy! He still dont get it!

On a post of fasting and a post on suffering he start asking about other things & trying to character assasinate.

eh,
we go to your blog & discuss lah.
be a man and tell us the address.
michaellow on December 7th, 2009 10:07 pm

Dear Frank Lee ahhh

Can substantiate? or just another ad hominem ahh?
a muse on December 7th, 2009 10:08 pm

wish us goodnight?
who is chasing you away?

michaellow cannot stand up to scrutiny & has left
for good
pun intended!

dun like that lah… we continue our discussion at YOUR blog?
Frank Lee on December 7th, 2009 10:11 pm

waa what ad homineme
u think u can use cheem cheem term i scare ah?
say pp use poderful word
u keep ad hominem ad himomem

ay… i not very educated…

tell us what it means leh? u know a not?
or going to google it now?
u neber read to michaellow meh
he say u also ad homoinem ah!

friend, dun say i never give u advice
look at yr 3 fingers lah!

haha
To michaellow on December 7th, 2009 11:31 pm

eh michaellow, so you think you are smart by using the term ‘ad hominem’ against us eh? the actual meaning of the term is: appealing to one’s prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one’s intellect or reason. you are the ad hominem one here. fact is, you are prejudice against us and that you do not consider your own intellect before using that term. you can’t even spell simple elementary words like ‘don’t’ and you expect us to believe that you comprehend the term ‘ad hominem’
regina on December 8th, 2009 1:25 am

Hi Pst,

Thanks for sharing and showing us a clearer picture of what fasting is all about. I’m greatly blessed.

Thank you for always leading by example.

May God bless you, Sun and Dayan. :)

regina
Angie on December 8th, 2009 5:17 am

Dear Pastor,

Thank you for being such an example. Your article always inspire me …

Angie
Aiyo on December 8th, 2009 5:21 am

To michaellow,

Aiyo … how to answer your questions when you are writing in other tongues? I hokkien also don’t understand your writing leh … can post in simple “england” or not?

Aiyo
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 8:41 am

TKH is well said – who are those that have secret plan to split the church? Must be that pastor who speak eveil of another person in the foreign country that initiates the debate!!

Most of you misread my writings above. What I mean is that WE CANNOT PLEASE GOD MORE OR EARNS MORE ANOINTING BY OUR OWN WORKS like fasting!! But if you want to fast, you can, when you are fallen from God. But when Jesus is here with you in your heart. this moment you don’t need to fast.

The article of PK above and the comments from CHC make me feel that CHC is a legalistic church!! By saying that we must fast or do something to please God or earn more anointing, it is purely against Martin Lurther’s Grace Doctrine!! CHC is not a Protestant church since it is against Martin Luther’s “BY GRACE ALONE” doctrine; CHC is also not a Charismatic church since the Greek word “Chrisma” means “ANOINTING IS A FREE GIFT”. I can only say that CHC is a LEGALISTIC CHURCH who preaches salvation by work/earns anointing by work/please God by work – the “HEAVY GRACE” DOCTRINE!!

Shame on you TKH. The more you speak the more weakness you reveal on PK and CHC!!
albert on December 8th, 2009 9:18 am

To Shut Up Please

Inspite of your immature insults, it is interesting to read your comment as it highlight our differences in belief.

Quote

But if you want to fast, you can, when you are fallen from God. But when Jesus is here with you in your heart. this moment you don’t need to fast.

End Quote

I heard Pastor Joseph Prince grace teaching is that the work of Jesus is already totally complete, therefore you can not fallen away from God?

Also you should not be sin conscious. So if you fast when you are fallen, will that make you sin conscious?

Would love to hear from you

Albert
Dear Micheallow on December 8th, 2009 9:28 am

God bless you Michaellow.

Please let the matter rest.

As long as Pastor Kong does not reply, I think you can safely assume the degrees are paper mills- give him a benefit of doubt that he too was duped – God bless you, and Pastor.

Let it rest. It does not matter to CHC members. If business men can quietly remove their Phd titles after being found out, we should be more forgiving for a man of God.

Seriously, give the man some room. With time, the titles will disappear too, cos ST is closing in on such an issue right now.
Dear albert on December 8th, 2009 9:31 am

not the right tack.

Go to their website, extract the messages and post here.

But we should attack the issues and confine to the word of God, not the person of Shut Up Please.

Let us be above them, not below them.
When bad things happen to good people. on December 8th, 2009 9:34 am

Not sure how it all adds up –

you ’suffer’ when you fast.

Then you get ‘double portion’ based on Previous post – since Job got it – more children, more cattle – like Prosperity Gospel.

So Sun will get double success if Pastor and CHC members all fast and dedicate it to Sun domination of the World?? !!

Correct or not huh??
Ka - ching on December 8th, 2009 9:36 am

Nah …..Sounds like a formula for Jackpot winning $$$$
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 9:37 am

Reply to albert,

In this broken world there are Christians like you and chucrh like CHC, and thus there will be Christians fallen from God. Thus your pastor asked your church to fast.

Thus I say, as long as you have the Son of God in your heart, there is no need to fast (Mat 9:15). But when legalist Christians and church become legalistic, Jesus will walk away from you and you need to fast!!
Is he easily assasinated? on December 8th, 2009 9:42 am

Even if his degrees are paper mill – has his character been assasinated? Why such harsh words?

If you love him, you will accept him even if he was duped into a fake degree right?

As a young man, he made mistakes, we stick with him.

He is not Perfection Incarnate.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 9:51 am

Reply to Dear albert on December 8th, 2009 9:31 am

Good. Listen directly instead of what you hear from PK who manipulates other’s message and insult him.

I believe you will hear God’s truth and shall leave CHC after you hear! I invite you to join a church with Son of God here and enjoy the amazing grace of Jesus!
new Christian on December 8th, 2009 9:56 am

Mat 9-15

Mat 9-14

sorry – you mean Pastor was right and Matthew was wrong??

Can someone help?
noname on December 8th, 2009 10:32 am

great blog, pastor.. i never do fasting before in my whole life.. :D
After reading your post, make me wanna try it.. thx for sharing.. :D
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 10:41 am

Reply to new Christian on December 8th, 2009 9:56 am

Is the Son of God inside your heart, or has the Son of God left you?
There would be great differences. Matthew here points out tow situations here. If you answer to the question is Yes -> No need to fast according to Matthew. If no -> I wonder if you are a Christians or not -> please fast then. But you cannot earn God’s Grace or Anointng by fasting!!
Frank Lee on December 8th, 2009 11:50 am

Waa… Shut up please!
U still haven’t shut up ah!

Who says we EARN God’s grace by fasting huh?
U mad ah.

Waa.. Yr post all reali quite unfriendly & judgmental hor.

If u r a christian, u really need grace man.
No wonder lah!
Hahah
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 12:02 pm

Reply to Frank Lee on December 8th, 2009 11:50 am

Ask your pastor who said fasting can:
c. Increasing the anointing level

HE CERTAINLY MEAN THAT CHCers LIKE YOU CAN EARN ANOINTING BY FASTING!!!

I am so against such a “HEAVY GRACE” DOCTRINE which contradict with the Charismatic idea of “Chrisma” (anointing is a free gift) and the Protestant foundation of “BY GRACE ALONE” by Martin Lurther!!
new Christian on December 8th, 2009 12:24 pm

Frank Lee –

don’t mind – I am trying to learn about Scripture here?

Can we discuss calmly and learn from each other?

God help us.
new Christian on December 8th, 2009 12:33 pm

Shut up please -

Jesus says that certain demons can’t be expelled except by prayer and fasting (Matt.17:21).

ok – this part says fast……

Bible is very confusing
new Christian on December 8th, 2009 12:47 pm

ok – guess fasting is only for Pastors and prophets –

not for a common person like me.

Tell me if I am out of point.
new Christian on December 8th, 2009 1:03 pm

michaellow – can help??

errr – try to reduce the hokkein twang ok?

Thanks much……
web site for new christian to get a balanced view... on December 8th, 2009 1:49 pm

to new christian , this was extracted from
http://www.spirithome.com/fasting.html#donts

well balanced article on fasting. hope it helps :

Fasting And Obeying God

“First, let [fasting] be done unto the Lord with our eye singly fixed on Him. Let our intention herein be this, and this alone, to glorify our Father which is in heaven.”
——- John Wesley, as found in the collection *Sermons On Several Occasions* (Epworth, 1971), p.301

If one of the purposes of fasting is to bring yourself to obey and follow God, then what can fasting mean when life after fasting does not bear the marks of such obedience? In the face of a nation that fasted and wailed before God as if they were holy, but did not live Godly lives, the prophets spoke of the kind of ‘fasting’ God wanted. Or, as Isaiah said, especially 58:6 :

“Isn’t this the fast that I want :
to loosen the bonds of wickedness,
to undo the bands of the yoke,
to let the oppressed go free
and break every yoke?”

The disciples often did not fast at the usual times specified by the Jewish faith. (This was so very different from the Pharisees and the followers of John the Baptist, who would fast regularly.) This was not done to make a point about fasting, but a point about Jesus, since Jesus’ coming was God’s response to the pleas of all those who had been fasting in repentance and for God to rescue them. Jesus spoke little of fasting, and when he did, it was about the right spirit to fast in. Jesus spoke more often about feasting, comparing the Kingdom of God to a banquet. This was foreshadowed by Zechariah, who prophesied that one day the solemn fast days of the Jewish faith would become “cheerful feasts”. Not that Jesus was against fasting. He himself fasted and faced the temptation to use His power to get food to break His fast. He spoke of the role of fasting and prayer in healing and in casting out evil spirits…

Is not the neglect of this plain duty (I mean fasting, ranked by our Lord with almsgiving and prayer) one general occasion of deadness among Christians?”
— John Wesley, *The Journal of John Wesley*

You don’t need to fast to be saved, at least not according to Scripture. Each church body has its own rules and practices about fasting, as part of their own way of living the Christian life. Many millions of people live good and faithful Christian lives without ever fasting. Fasting can be helpful, but is not at all required.

Jesus speaks of the hypocrites who fast so that other people are impressed. Fasts are not for getting others to say, “wow, this is one holy dude”. Fasts are between yourself and God. Even a fast as an act done publicly with others (as, for instance, in Lent, Ramadan, or Yom Kippur) is not about showing non-believers or fellow believers how holy you are. They are not the point; the relationship between you and God is the point of a fast. (The same can be said of most of those who rhapsodize about fasting in their sermons. Talk is getting cheaper with each new day.)

Sufferings caused by fasts are not an excuse for being grouchy, stingy, or rude. Fasting can make your mind get weak and unable to focus, which can make for angry or delusional reactions. When it does, stop fasting, because you’re starting to harm yourself and you’re bearing a bad witness to God’s love.

“He wants nothing at all to do with you if by your fasting you court Him as if you were a great saint, and yet meanwhile nurse a grudge or anger against your neighbor.”
Martin Luther
new Christian on December 8th, 2009 2:08 pm

Thanks –

I am soaking it in.

At Jesus time – new testament – were the common folks ever asked to fast?

Or only Pastors and Priests.

Thanks again and bless you for helping.

At least, I know now we do not fast to ‘hit the jackpot’ like Worldwide domination of Sun thingy.
Gordon on December 8th, 2009 2:51 pm

The article mentioned that the disciples fasted.

I guess they were common folks.
Who is fasting to ‘hit the jackpot’ as you so cynically put it.

For a new christan, eager to learn, your comments are suspiciously tilted.

For a new christian navigating your way, it helps not to be too scornful of another pastor by denigrating his sharing as to ‘hit a jackpot’ of Sun world domination thingy’.

Learn basic courtesy as you to about fasting.

Don’t forget you are commenting on this pastor’s blog.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 3:04 pm

Message to Gordon on December 8th, 2009 2:51 pm

By pointing another person as “cynically put it” and “suspiciously tilted”, you yourself also “cynically put it” and “suspiciously tilted”.

You better to SHUT UP PLEASE!!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 3:10 pm

Message to Kong Hee (aka ‘PK” by your church members)

“Many people have asked me, “Kong, why do you fast so often?” This blog is dedicated to that question.”

You Hypocrite!! The reason why so many “your people” (you are drifting the sheep from following Jesus to following you!!!) asked you why you fast so much is that you tell the whole world that you fast so much!! How much this contradicts to Jesus’ teaching!!

“Increase anointing” by fasting? You shame yourself by saying that anointing can be earned by work of humans!!

“Self-humbling before the Lord” when you fast?? Those who are humble no need to tell people that he is humble. You Hypocrite!! Ridiculous!! How Ridiculous is your article!!
Michele on December 8th, 2009 3:30 pm

Dear Shut Up Please & Michaellow.

I am a young believer & have been reading Pastor Kong’s devotional & blogs.

I have been following your discussion with interest.

I must say I am really stumbled by the arrogant & self-righteous attitude that you guys have when you criticise another Pastor.

For all his shortcomings, surely there is no need to use such harsh words & engage in personal attacks.

No wonder it irked his followers so much.

I would defend my pastor too if someone attacks him at his blog. Wouldn’t you?

Honestly, people in the world, though you call them ’sinners’ are often more gracious, accepting & forgiving than what I see from you.

Shut up please & michaellow,

Your actions made me think again if I have made the right decison.

Sadly yours,
M. T
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 4:02 pm

Reply to Michele on December 8th, 2009 3:30 pm

We used harsh words?
Have you hear that video recording that PK criticized in Sweden his fellow pastor in SIngapore? Do you know what words he used?

PK manipulates the teachings of that pastors and what PK totally lie about that pastor using very harsh words. He criticized that pastor as “RIDICULOUS” more than ten times in just 1.5 hours of “sermon”.

“For all his shortcomings, surely there is no need to use such harsh words & engage in personal attacks.” -> Please include this sentence and send an email to alert that PK!!

“Your actions made me think again if I have made the right decison.” -> I tell you: You have made a wrong decision if the church you joined is CHC!! Follow a PK in CHC??

For your information the people in CHC would call KONG HEE as “Pastor Kong” (in short is “PK”)
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 4:06 pm

More to Michele on December 8th, 2009 3:30 pm

You are right that the CHCers are “his followers” (followers of PK)

They follow that PK rather than Jesus

“I would defend my pastor too if someone attacks him at his blog. Wouldn’t you?”

This is what I want to tell CHCers whose PK has attacked the pastors of another church!!
TKH on December 8th, 2009 4:34 pm

Dear Shut Up Please,

You have been bringing up the issue that Ps Kong critcize another Pastor in Sweden, can you give some supoorting documents or articles? Else it is just based on your assumption …

Also I really thought since you believe in the message of grace, shouldn’t you speak more graciously also? You sound really upset and out to tear down those who disagreed with you … chill off a little … God is still in control …

God bless …

TKH
for TKH on December 8th, 2009 4:41 pm

http://alvinology.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/pastor-kong-hee-on-cheap-grace-preachers/”

Referring to this talk in sweden

You just came back from Mars?
Frank Lee on December 8th, 2009 4:52 pm

Shut Up Please!

Give the girl michele a break lah!

you have done enough damage!

causing someone else to stumble…

i see you no up!
less you say, everybody happier!

’nuff said!
Gordon on December 8th, 2009 4:56 pm

Shut Up Please…

I am not a young Christian asking question.

It is clear whose side I am on. Of course the ideological underpinnings of my comments are overt.

But for a new christian, it is interesting that he starts with being cynical about Pastor Kong and Sun, ON Pastor Kong’s own blog.

Get it?

If not,
Shut Up Please
Kelly Yeo on December 8th, 2009 4:57 pm

Dear Shut Up Please,

I am from CHC. I call Pastor Kong, Pastor.

Never PK.

Nor do my friends from CHC.

I don’t understand your comments and your basis.
Gordon on December 8th, 2009 4:58 pm

I think the Post Below Can APPLY to SHUT UP PLEASE

Chen Yi Xin on December 6th, 2009 1:17 am

To ■not from mega church

Your postings are disgraceful,

You claim that you are not from a mega church but your posts are constantly referring to Pastor Joseph Prince from New Creation Church,

Either you are lying, which is even worse, or you are really not from NCC.

If you are not, can you please stop disgracing the church by your post and pretending to be speaking up for Pastor Prince?

Who appointed you to defend him? Surely, there is no need.

Your actions are putting the church is a very bad light,

And to all who claim that you are not from NCC but keep alluding to it, please stop.

You are not helping.
Samuel on December 8th, 2009 5:04 pm

Michele on December 8th, 2009 3:30 pm

“Honestly, people in the world, though you call them ’sinners’ are often more gracious, accepting & forgiving than what I see from you.”

Have to agree with Michele!!

So, is this what christian suppose to behave? you slap me, and I slap you back, you gang up on me, and I come back with more people…
I find it interesting that you guys were slinging mud at each other from Monday through Saturday, but on Sunday it’s quite quiet here because you need to go to church, raise up your (un)holy hands to worship God, but as soon as you finished your religious act, you couldn’t wait to come back here to fight again, please, both NCC and CHC members, for Christ sake, and for the sake of both beloved pastors, please don’t bring down God’s name by your immature act!!! can someone please tell me, which side do you think Jesus is on if He is moderating this blog?

When Jesus was being nailed on the cross, He said “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing.” Dear NCC members, I know you felt like pastor Kong has wronged you, can you forgive and move on? if you don’t forgive, how can you expect your Father in heaven to forgive you? Isn’t this what our Lord taught us in the Lord’s prayer ” forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

CEASE FIRE PLEASE!!!
(I’m not from either church, please don’t label me!)
Gordon on December 8th, 2009 5:06 pm

Well said Samuel! =)
Frank Lee on December 8th, 2009 5:22 pm

ya lar… i olso agree witj samuel & gordion

i also dun wan to write
i got to work hard hard ok… where got so much time…

but then hor i love my pastor leh

so when people come and insult him
say bad things
dont know why i feel angry leh…

if all of us keep quiet when our pst kena attack
like we machiam support behind him
but from very far away leh…

how can like tt?

so that why i only respond to those very very mean critics lor

come to pastor blog and make trouble

not happy dun read lah
not like people force you read!
seow ah!
Notice to Michael Low on December 8th, 2009 5:55 pm

You kept refering to this http://www.febc.edu.sg/programmes.htm .

With you kind of attitude, nobody will enroll in Far Eastern Bible College, Bro Michael Low .

Your are bad abominable example to FEBC,

The Founding Principal.
why fast / don't fast on December 8th, 2009 6:02 pm

can we go back to the topic??

Thanks.
albert on December 8th, 2009 6:03 pm

To Shut Up Please.

You said

Quote

In this broken world there are Christians like you and chucrh like CHC, and thus there will be Christians fallen from God. Thus your pastor asked your church to fast.

Thus I say, as long as you have the Son of God in your heart, there is no need to fast (Mat 9:15). But when legalist Christians and church become legalistic, Jesus will walk away from you and you need to fast!!

End Quote

So its very clear now that you view fasting as a legalistic act

However
Peter fast, Paul fast and church of Antioch fast.

Are they being legalistic? They don’t have son of God in their heart?

Jesus himself fast for 40 days

So Jesus is legalistic???

Now it is obvious that cheap grace teaching is erroneous. The error of cheap grace teaching is dangerous. That is why we need to stand up and speak out against it.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 6:08 pm

Reply to Frank Lee on December 8th, 2009 5:22 pm

“so when people come and insult him
say bad things
dont know why i feel angry leh…”

Your words show that you have a “pastor-idol-worship” spirit/devil/demons inside you. You don’t know it because you have been controlled by that spirit already.

Please come to a faithful church so that somebody can cast out that demons from you.

Take Cares—
albert on December 8th, 2009 6:11 pm

In Matt 9: 15, Jesus didnt say that you should not fast.

He say that there is a correct time and season to fast.

Matthew 9: 15
Jesus answered, “How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 6:18 pm

Reply to albert on December 8th, 2009 6:03 pm

Again I am shocked by the below-average Bible Knowledge that you have.

Peter fast, Paul fast, church of Antioch fast, and Jesus fast
- NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO EARN MORE ANOINTING as what your PK taught.

According to dictionary:
“Fasting is primarily the act of willingly abstaining from some or all food, drink, or both, for a period of time”

They can fast because they are under grace – complete freedom – and can do whatever they wanted if they have the Son of God in their hearts.

What I am against is NOT fasting, but someone like PK who preached that we need to fast so to get more anointing, or we must do something in order to please God.

Do you know what is Grace? Go back to your primary school please! Grace means all things have been done for us by Jesus on the Cross. We do not need to do anythings in order to earn more anointing or please him. Instead Grace means complete freedom, 100% free – I can do whatever I want if there is Son of God in my heart. Certainly, I am free to fast if I want to.

But certainly for “legalistic” Christians like you, it is a must for you to fast – if you don’t have Son of God in your heart. I just used the “legalistic” words that your PK always used!!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 6:29 pm

Further comments to albert

My two cents you you is that (in case you don’t understand):

Under Grace I don’t need to fast does not mean that I can never fast. Since I am under Grace I can choose to fast if I want.

That’s so simple. I wonder why CHCers with “high IQ” can’t understand this, and challenge the “BY GRACE ALONE” Doctrine of Martin Lurther.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 8th, 2009 6:31 pm

Only certain Legalistic Christians must fast… Don’t want to point our which pastor or which church again…

It is a must for them to fast, in order to earn more anointing or to please God… Why the Grace that they obtained is so Heavy…
Frank Lee on December 8th, 2009 6:38 pm

Hahahaahahaah!
Shut up please!
U r so so so funny!
IF I insult yr mother or yr wife or someone u love…
Will u reppspond???
If yes, by yr defination
Your words show that you have a “pastor-idol-worship” spirit/devil/demons inside you. You don’t know it because you have been controlled by that spirit already.

Hahaha!

Ya lah. We ALL demonised.
All cept u lor!
a muse on December 8th, 2009 6:42 pm

I dedicate this to Shut Up Please too!

i believe in cheap grace
so i will go to Pastor Kong’s blog
hurl unfounded accusations at him
insult his wife
slander his church
mock at his members
lie about the church i come from
and go to bed
knowing that God will forgive me
because
i believe in cheap grace

I wake up the next day
and i repeat my deeds again
because
i believe
in cheap grace
Daniel on December 8th, 2009 6:52 pm

Shut up please,
Referring to Michele…
I wonder what the Bible says abt those who stumble others?
Can you teach me?
sad.... on December 8th, 2009 8:22 pm

Hi Michelle,

Your decision to be a Christian is to follow Christ. Don’t let the actions of Christians or even Pastors affect your decision. We are all human and we fall into sin every so often. Only God’s grace and His gift of Jesus is able to justify us….So do not take heed of anyone here in these blog comments. Go back to the word of God and balanced views like those expressed here http://www.spirithome.com

Also devotionals from Our daily bread or the turning point (google them) will be helpful for a new christian..

This argument abt Grace and works have been there since time immemorial. Also disagreements betwn denominations have always been there. Because we are human , we have biases , and sometimes we think we are too smart, lol !!

On a personal note, I am not a mega church member because I don’t think individual pastors should have too much “power”. But this is Kong Hee’s blog so I should not go too much into that on this blog. Anyway , look to Jesus and to the bible for guidance and you’ll be fine… Christians are also human and we often fall. Since the Wholesome Shallowness article, there have been questions that have not been answered by Kong Hee and his supporters have tried to get rid of his detractors but the latter have not given up. I am not siding either becos I am not a mega church member. But I don’t like the attitude or language displayed so far from either side and I’m hoping Kong Hee will disable the comments or just come out with an answer to shut everyone up, lol… I tried to go to the Joseph Prince’s blog to make a comment abt the “furore” here , but unlike here, there doesn’t seem to be a comments section there. So Pastor Kong Hee, pls disable comments if you do not intend to reply or moderate comments cos it is not doing your church or the body of Christ any good….unless your intention is to see how devoted your CHC members are thru their replies…
albert on December 8th, 2009 9:12 pm

“Shut Up Please”, no where here that Pastor mentioned that you MUST fast. Nobody is ever forced in anyway to fast.

You said “Thus I say, as long as you have the Son of God in your heart, there is no need to fast”

Which means you are saying that the reason to fast is when the Son of God is not in your heart. That is a massive error.

And your definition of fasting is wrong, it is not just abstaining from food, but abstaining from food for SPIRITUAL reasons.

And fasting can increase the anointing that we have.

Jesus said that certain demon cant be expel except through fasting and prayer

A person who choose to spend his time praying, fasting and reading the bible will be different from those who choose to stay at home, watch TV or indulge in carnal behavior.

Jesus says he who are faithful in the little, to him much will be given

Jesus says that the Father will give Holy Spirit to those who ask

Hebrews says that anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him

I agree we grace that it is not a MUST to fast.

However grace does not mean that we should be complacent

And furthermore grace should not be a license to sin.

Bible says that if we call our brothers “fool”, we sin by murdering our brother in our heart.

Your insulting comments are sin, however since you believe that as long as you are in grace you are fine, you wont be bother by this.

And the reason of you sin and keep sinning take root in your wrong view on grace. you think that it is ok because of grace

This is the danger when grace is taken to the extreme.

I thank God that He raise Pastor Kong to speak up against his teaching. It take courage to speak up, risking his own reputation, that people may view him as being envious/jealous.

And regarding of being envious, I don’t think that is the reason. FCBC is also a mega church but Pst Kong and Pst Lawrence Kong get along very well.
Twitted by Adaliawei on December 9th, 2009 12:52 am

[...] This post was Twitted by Adaliawei [...]
TKH on December 9th, 2009 2:48 am

To Sad,

Personally, I do not think we need to disabled the comments column. I think it is helpful for one to voice the concerns he or she had, because in the midst of the discussion, I am sure there will be some who are edified by others.

Of course there will be those who speak harshly or critcially. This might be a good platform to see the blindspot we might have been unaware of by ourselves. Ultimately, each person has to be accountable for his words and actions, when we stand before the judgement seat of Christ.

This is the reason why I cautioned all to be careful with the words you used, cos it is foolish to think that we can say carelessly anything we want, thinking that we can get away from the ultimate Judge, God Himself.

However, I am confident that when we do our best to keep our hearts right by the grace of God, even if we made mistake, God will lead us back into His path of righteousness.

Honestly, I don’t think there is anything to be embarrassed about, knowing that the church of Christ is not perfected yet, and we are all in the process of learning.

So happy learning to all, and let’s seek to edify one another, even in our disagreement.

God bless …

TKH
FROM HEAVEN on December 9th, 2009 3:50 am

” LET HE WHO FAST ACCEPT HE WHO DOES NOT FAST AND LET HE WHO DOES NOT FAST, NOT CONDEMN HE WHO FAST. FOR I THE LORD HAVE ACCEPTED THEM ALL. MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR YOU. FOR THOSE WHO DOES IT, DO IT UNTO THE LORD.”

Thus saith the Lord.
Hallelujah!
Amen.
Twitted by Jason_Woon on December 9th, 2009 7:46 am

[...] This post was Twitted by Jason_Woon [...]
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 9th, 2009 9:23 am

Reply to Frank Lee on December 8th, 2009 6:38 pm

If someone insult your loved one and you know why you angry –> Rational Person

If someone insult another person and you don’t know why you angry –> an evidence of overwhemled by a demon
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 9th, 2009 9:39 am

Reply to albert on December 8th, 2009 9:12 pm

Your comments on the teaching on another paster is very ungrounded. You never listened to any of his sermons, nor any of his teaching. All you know is the manipulated comments on that pastor from the month of your pastor.

How can you label a church as cheap grace when you never attend it? How can you say that there are massive errors in a doctrine when you never research on it? There is no church in Singapore who claims to preach cheap grace doctrine. Themore you speak the more you reveal that unwise insulting act from your pastor.

“You said “Thus I say, as long as you have the Son of God in your heart, there is no need to fast”

Which means you are saying that the reason to fast is when the Son of God is not in your heart. That is a massive error. ”

No need to fast does not mean you cannot fast. I have explained it million times above. Can you read all my comments before acussing me?? We are under God’s Grace – we have complete freedom – we can choose to eat, or choose to fast, and do whatever we want- if Son of God is in our hearts. When we have Jesus we don’t need to fast, but we can fast if we want to, just like we can eat when we want. We can do whatever we want if we have Jesus!

“And fasting can increase the anointing that we have.

Jesus said that certain demon cant be expel except through fasting and prayer”

Are you crazy to say that the demons is casted away because of your “work” of fasting? Casting out a demon is purely because of the Power and Grace of God, man can never do a things (like fasting) to cast it.

Please study Clark’s Commentary (the most authority Bible Commentary today) on Matt.17:21:
“The whole verse is wanting in the famous Vatican MS.,
one of the most ancient and most authentic perhaps in the world;
and in another one of Colbert’s, written in the 11th or 12th
century. It is wanting also in the Coptic, Ethiopic, Syriac,
Hieros., and in one copy of the Itala. ”

This verse is not on the original text, and I believe this verse was added by Christians when the Church become legalistic. How can a “Graat Apostle” like PK build a “Doctrine” of Increase Anointing by Work on such an unreliable verse??

“However grace does not mean that we should be complacent

And furthermore grace should not be a license to sin.”

Again, you draw conclusions based on the imagination of your PK. Can you study the teaching of that pastor yourself before you attack his doctrine?? Do you know that your pastor may have lie to all the world towards that pastor in Sweden?? Don’t be a stupid person who believe in everything that your pastor tell you!! Are you possessed by a pastor-worshipping demons?? Can you think independently? If no, I am afraid that the demons are controlling you………………..
Frank Lee on December 9th, 2009 9:56 am

“If someone insult another person and you don’t know why you angry –> an evidence of overwhemled by a demon” by SHUT UP PLEASE

haahahaha!
whose theology huh?
quote bibke quote verse?
shut up please!
thing u write always so hilariosu!

u dun even know what u r wirting,.. just shoot yr mouth off!

haha!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 9th, 2009 10:34 am

Reply to Frank Lee on December 9th, 2009 9:56 am

What I wrote to you on December 9th, 2009 9:23 am was not theology, but simple human logic.

How can a normal person angry but don’t know why, while he knows what had happened (as you said “you feel angry when people insult… but don’t know why…”)

Do you know what you are speaking? I don’t.
Frank Lee on December 9th, 2009 10:42 am

“If someone insult another person and you don’t know why you angry –> an evidence of overwhemled by a demon” by SHUT UP PLEASE

human logic? hahahahaah

how is it logical huh?

what planet are you from leh?

Not biblical say not biblical lah
what human logic
haha!

anyhow say people demonised and say it is because of logic! hilaroisu!

seow!
why fast / don't fast on December 9th, 2009 11:05 am

I think the problem arise because Pastor Kong was caught on tape saying Cheap Grace doctrine was ridiculous and passed very negative remark on the church..

Since then, he was never caught on tape being humble or regretting his tone in taking another Brother in Christ to task.

I guess it is time for Pastor Kong to repent his negative remarks on his next blog.

It takes a great man to review his mistakes, so that his Church can be finally rid of his Trespassing another brother.

If not, things will not move on.

Seriously, why fast, if you have a negative judgemental spirit about another brother and never apologise on public record?
I wish you good, but please repent first on December 9th, 2009 11:20 am

Agree with why fast / don’t fast on December 9th, 2009 11:05 am

Dear PASTOR KONG:
When you fast you must first seek the forgiveness from those you wronged them. Otherwise your fasting cannot reach God in Heaven.

It is not a wise act for you to criticize a church or a pastor as “cheap grace” just because you find out that several Christians from that church has wronged your followers and claims that they have cheap grace mindset. Maybe they are new Christians? Maybe they are not yet believers who join church? How can you label the whole church as “cheap grace people”?

I believe what you labelled as cheap grace is different from the Grace Doctrine that Pastor Joseph preached. You just took several quotes from him and built up your criticism on all his ministry. I agree with SHUT UP PLEASE! that this is a manipulation of his teaching.

Though I cannot represent NCC, but it is my wish PASTOR KONG can confess his unwise acts, epecially speak evil of another person in foreign country without that person’s presence. It is not a “Real Man” for you to heavily criticize a person at his back without his physical presence.

For CHC fellow brothers and sisters, please stop use label of “cheap grace” to any brothers and sisters in NCC. If you have never attend NCC, never listened to Pastor Joseph’s sermons, you have no rights to inject “cheap grace” label to other people like your pastor did. Please consider the Golden Rule of Jesus – if you don’t want other people do the same thing to you, your church and your pastor, please don’t do it to other persons, their church and their pastors.

Thank you very much for your attention.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 9th, 2009 11:38 am

No interest to talk with Frank Lee on December 9th, 2009 10:42 am anymore.

I wonder what is your age? Still studying your kindergarden? If you are an adult, may be you need to have more tutorial class on your English, Logic, and Bible lessons.

The viewpoints of:
why fast / don’t fast on December 9th, 2009 11:05 am, and
I wish you good, but please repent first on December 9th, 2009 11:20 am
are excellent.

Their suggestion is the only solution to the problem. One thing I don’t like PK is that when people has done something wrong to him, he always demands other people to apologize openly (like in 2001 he faced criticism when he just moved to Jorong West, he preached a sermon titled “forgiveness” which said that true repentence need to confess publicly for public sins). But when he trepassed another person he refused to apologize openly, at least till now I have not noted any apology from him to that pastor. What a contradiction between what he preached and what he does!
THK on December 9th, 2009 11:38 am

I must indicate that Pastor Kong never ever use Pastor Prince name or names his church specifically in that speech.

http://alvinology.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/pastor-kong-hee-on-cheap-grace-preachers/”

But listening to this speech, I believe it is not a Jesus spirit speech.

Christian brothers need to support each other in love and respect. Not tear each other down

Time for Pastor Kong to reflect and confess, so that CHC and his church and this blog and future blog entries can move forward without undue harrassment.

Face up now. Do not continue as if the speech never occured.
510 on December 9th, 2009 11:44 am

Hi Pastor,
I just started on a 3-day fast today. It’s been quite awhile since my last fast. Your sharing is really timely for me and I’m going to apply some of the tips you’ve shared on your blog.

I’m motivated to experience the benefits that you have shared in your blog, especially since I’m seeking God for more anointing and wisdom in 2010 to accomplish the goals that He has set before me.

Grateful that you shared.
Thanks Pastor.
510
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 9th, 2009 11:53 am

Agree with THK on December 9th, 2009 11:38 am

The voice of PK in that speech is different from what he normally speak…………

I believe there is a spirit inside of him who make him preached in that way…………

What is that spirit? Holy Spirit? Another spirit?
Let the readers to determine here.

A Satan’s spirit would invites further arguments and debate, while the Spirit of Jesus brings Joy, Peace and Grace.
why fast / don't fast on December 9th, 2009 11:56 am

And that voice recording in Sweden –

I personally find it stumbling as a Man of God.

He speaks like that – that is why all the congregation in the blog comment speak in the spirit to his distractors.

But if I know it, this request will get bogged down and drowned out in a sea of comments.

And SHUT UP PLEASE will rise again in future blogs to remind all of PK speech and his one time mean spirit that was never confessed.

Sigh. Guess the ball is in his court, and hopefully addressed in his blog.
ihopeiamwrong on December 9th, 2009 12:45 pm

Jesus and i are blessed without any record.

Pst Kong doesn’t need to fast to get breakthroughs. The fact is when the church begins to play the harlot, she will definitely become rich, she will sit on the seven mountains Rev 17. You can say it anyway you like, but the way of cain (alternative religion – secular humanism), the error of Balaam (covetousness) and the rebellion of Korah (despising authority of the church – apostles and prophets) is profitable. And many churches are bait for it.

The one who follows Christ becomes last, unless God helps him.

But this cancer is common to the churches, it takes a journey to mature the seeds God placed within the person, to become sons of the kingdom. The harlot Mystery Babylon rides on the scarlet beast which is the antichrist sytem from which comes the Antichrist who will destroy her, but the King of Israel rides on a donkey which is a dumb animal which represents the foolishness of the gospel. Mystery Babylon is America, the world system and the false church. I write this because so much spiritualising has been done that we think church success is God’s blessings when we could have gotten it by drinking the cup of fornication.

However, there might be blessings with the fast!
ihopeiamwrong on December 9th, 2009 1:04 pm

The whole deception in the churches is the wheat look like the tares and the tares look like the wheat. An apostate church looks like a true church. But the signs are the way of Cain, the error of Balaam, the rebellion of Korah, sexual immorality (physical and worldliness – adultery against God), worship of idols, ….see 2 Peter 2, Jude and Rev 2. Both will mature in the last days, both will remain untilt hey are harvested. How then can the scriptures be fulfilled? So don’t fret when you see them prosper.
ihopeiamwrong on December 9th, 2009 1:58 pm

I wish to share about the truth of salvation a little deeper, the truth is the majority of Christians have bought a salvation lie. It is possible to lose our salvation and missed heaven even by faithfully attending church every week.

Read 2 Peter 2:18-22, the fact is some people are saved to begin a journey of bondage in the corruption of the errant churches to never become saved eternally, but to end up worse in punishment than an unbeliever in hell because they are believers.

To be saved, you have to obey God. To obey God, you must obey the word. Jesus preached about hell, but the sad fact is the church twisted His words to their own itching ears and likings, if you take Jesus words LITERALLY you will know how easy to perish. However because God is full of lovingkindness, the church gets deceived with their sinful ways.

Am i against Pst Kong for the salvations in CHC?

Each life is a story of God. There is no way of knowing who will be saved and who will not. Its just like planting seeds, you don’t know what’s next, the seeds may grow at different rates. Even so, life is a mess.

But i need to stress that it is WRITTEN in the scriptures the truth about the last days church that many will follow destructive teachings and the way of truth be blasphemed and 2 Peter 2:18-22.

He who can hear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.
Amy on December 9th, 2009 2:00 pm

hi ihopeiamwrong,
thanks for the sharing. Yes, fasting for selfish gains is not what Christ has commanded of us.

God bless you, ihopeiamwrong (and I really mean it, not like someone who faked holiness, {you know who you are}).
Tricia on December 9th, 2009 3:03 pm

wow… so many comments…
I only manged to read the top few.

Pst Kong, I m so blessed by the light shed on the topic of fasting. I will definitely fast more… Increase my capacity from 12hr to 24hr fast. To “break” myself more and to remind myself to lean upon God more.

To rara roma, well, when I fast, I dont make it known to anyone. I don’t we shd cosmy conviction is that it’s btw God and us. I don’t people should. However, for Pst Kong, I believe he is living a transparent life before his congregation. It makes a difference and is an encouragement to the congregation to know about that.

Also, as a member of CHC, no one forces us to fast la. There are times where we do fast as a CG just like in the days of Esther. However, if a member does not want to, he is not forced to.

We r also not forcing God’s will to bend to ours. Fasting is biblical. The things we fast for, are visions and dreams that God has placed in our hearts.

:) Peace.
hmmm interesting on December 9th, 2009 3:09 pm

visions like world wide domination of Sun.

And the CG fast on that.

And the Church.

That is the clarion call on this blog, I think.

Whatever makes you happy clappy…… no pressure ok – but she IS the Spiritual Mother of the church.

CG fast, but no pressure ok .

CG Buy CD but no pressure ok.
just saw youtubes of KH and JP's preaching... on December 9th, 2009 3:23 pm

went to see the youtube of Kong Hee ridiculing “cheap grace” pastors/believers. Quite shocking if indeed there are people who think that after being christians they can sin more so that they experience more grace. Or that they think it’s ok to commit adultery / cheat in business etc which Kong Hee mentioned was what they do. I hope he has evidence of the claims he made, otherwise an entire unnamed megachurch and preacher is being condemned in Sweden and on the internet. I also took the opportunity to search the “supposed” pastor and church that’s been insinuated in the blog comments and found this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10lue7bhcK0&feature=related

I must say Prince made a good point that Paul would have been accused of being a “cheap grace” preacher as well if he was judged by some of the “theologians” today. He did not say it was ok to sin more in order to get more grace. Wonder if KH can point to evidence that he did preach such a message. In fact KH should name names if indeed such a megachurch preacher exists to protect the body of Christ from such dangerous theology…

I personally find it ironic that KH sneers at another’s preaching abt cheap grace, condemns others of not controlling the flesh; yet justifies his wife’s display of flesh and condones dance moves that simulate sex in his wife’s music video. I guess I will be labelled judgemental. But having heard KH’s judgement of others as “cheap grace” believers, I think he needs to be more honest with himself and CHC believers need to be honest with themselves too on the whole issue of being “judgemental”. On another note, I am very uncomfortable with the idea that KH fasted for a church with a bigger seating capacity and for his wife’s entertainment career as pointed out by “conflict of interest” who posted earlier. Reading thru the other entries, I am also worried abt the suggestion that Job suffered so he could get a “double portion”. God is not a vending machine or a genie. He does not make us suffer to reward us in this lifetime…as evidenced by the heroes of faith mentioned in Hebrews…Many died without getting any rewards in this lifetime. I await being thrashed like other detractors before me. But TKH did say it was ok to debate points as long as it was done in the right spirit…
fast / don't fast on December 9th, 2009 3:28 pm

Read this quote

34. God loves you because of who God is, not because of anything you did or didn’t do.

Brilliant – so I guess I will not fast.

Cheerio.
fast / don't fast on December 9th, 2009 4:16 pm

Prodigal son.

Jesus love me this I know, for the bible tells me so.

Even God loves the prodigal son, I am sure he does not demand of you to fast so that he can love you more.

Jese loves me absolutely. True? Amen.

I just need to love my neighbour more, which is his basic message.

So why fast – don’t fast.

Thanks Pastor, for posting this message and allowing me to make my own conclusion.
TKH on December 9th, 2009 6:48 pm

To THK,

You said “I must indicate that Pastor Kong never ever use Pastor Prince name or names his church specifically in that speech.But listening to this speech, I believe it is not a Jesus spirit speech.”

It is funny to note that even when you realised Pst Kong did not speak against Ps Prince, you still insist that what he said was wrong.

Listening to the speech, I can only conclude that Ps Kong is making a factual statement about the false teaching of cheap grace.

Mt 24:12 warns us that in the last days, because lawlessness (not legalism) will abound, the love of many will grow cold. I think that is what Ps Kong trying to convey in his message. (I must say this is how I perceive it, you may disagree with me.)

You said “Face up now. Do not continue as if the speech never occured.”

Face up what? For preaching the truth? I think the speech is not falsely accusing anyone …

God bless …

TKH
TKH on December 9th, 2009 6:53 pm

Dear ihopeiamwrong,

All I can say is that you have quite a pessimistic outlook for the church as a whole … and you claim that US is mystery Babylon is difficult to be justified.

I prefer to look at the bright side … after all Jesus said in Mt 16 that He ” will build His Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail.”

God bless …

TKH
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 9th, 2009 6:56 pm

TKH,

I wnat to quote the content from
“I wish you good, but please repent first on December 9th, 2009 11:20 am” to ask you

“It is not a wise act for you to criticize a church or a pastor as “cheap grace” just because you find out that several Christians from that church has wronged your followers and claims that they have cheap grace mindset. Maybe they are new Christians? Maybe they are not yet believers who join church? How can you label the whole church as “cheap grace people”?

I believe what you labelled as cheap grace is different from the Grace Doctrine that Pastor Joseph preached. You just took several quotes from him and built up your criticism on all his ministry. I agree with SHUT UP PLEASE! that this is a manipulation of his teaching.

Though I cannot represent NCC, but it is my wish PASTOR KONG can confess his unwise acts, epecially speak evil of another person in foreign country without that person’s presence. It is not a “Real Man” for you to heavily criticize a person at his back without his physical presence.

For CHC fellow brothers and sisters, please stop use label of “cheap grace” to any brothers and sisters in NCC. If you have never attend NCC, never listened to Pastor Joseph’s sermons, you have no rights to inject “cheap grace” label to other people like your pastor did. Please consider the Golden Rule of Jesus – if you don’t want other people do the same thing to you, your church and your pastor, please don’t do it to other persons, their church and their pastors.”

THIS IS HOW UNGROUNDED PK’S SPEECH WAS!!!
TKH on December 9th, 2009 6:58 pm

To ■why fast / don’t fast on December 9th, 2009 11:56 am

You said “I personally find it stumbling as a Man of God.”

I guess what you find stumbling may be an encouragement to others. Each of us has a different preference for different style of preaching, it is hard to dismiss someone based purely on our preferences.

You said “He speaks like that – that is why all the congregation in the blog comment speak in the spirit to his distractors.”

Again, this is your false assumption.

You said “And SHUT UP PLEASE will rise again in future blogs to remind all of PK speech and his one time mean spirit that was never confessed.”

All I can say is to learn to let go and let God …

God bless …

TKH
TKH on December 9th, 2009 7:04 pm

Dear ■SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 9th, 2009 6:56 pm,

Again, you are putting words into my mouth… when or where did I say that NCC or Ps Prince is a cheap grace preacher …

Where did I label NCC members with “cheap grace”?

As one can see clearly, you are jumping into conclusion based on your flawed assumption …

To me, everyone who love and follow Christ is my brother and sister. My desire is to love them, not to judge them …

So please, don’t put false words into my mouth for things I have never said …

God bless …

TKH
TKH on December 9th, 2009 7:11 pm

To ■hmmm interesting on December 9th, 2009 3:09 pm

All I can say is that Ps Kong is sharing why He is fasting and believing God for, and at the same time, encouraging the members cultivate a lifestyle of prayer and fasting in seeking God.

I don’t know what do you seem to be so “suspicious” … is there anything wrong to fast for breakthrough? Is there anything wrong to seek God in fasting for a breakththrough in our secular jobs or to see the will of God being accomplished in our sphere of work?

God bless …

TKH
TKH on December 9th, 2009 7:20 pm

Dear ■just saw youtubes of KH and JP’s preaching…

You said “I personally find it ironic that KH sneers at another’s preaching abt cheap grace, condemns others of not controlling the flesh; yet justifies his wife’s display of flesh and condones dance moves that simulate sex in his wife’s music video. I guess I will be labelled judgemental.”

I think you have already drawn your conclusion about Sun’s MV, which is ok from your point of view. The only caution is that we must be careful in casting judgment. As discussed in the other blog, I personally do not think that Sun’s MV stimulate sex or is wrong.

Moreover, this is a totally different issue concerning cheap grace. Cheap grace teaching is to abuse God’s grace for outrightly sinful acts, like fonication or adultery or lying … etc, things which are clearly prohibited in the Scriptures.

You said “On another note, I am very uncomfortable with the idea that KH fasted for a church with a bigger seating capacity and for his wife’s entertainment career as pointed out by “conflict of interest” who posted earlier. ”

I think it is ok to disagree on something … I personally felt it is alright to fast and seek the will of God for breakthrough in our secular work and for God to bless us in the works of our hands.

You said “But TKH did say it was ok to debate points as long as it was done in the right spirit…”

Absolutely … everything should be done in a spirit of love and edification …

God bless …

TKH
TKH on December 9th, 2009 7:22 pm

To ■fast / don’t fast on December 9th, 2009 4:16 pm,

I think it is ok if you don’t want to fast, as it is a personal choice … but one has to acknowledge that fasting is taught in the scriptures …

God bless …

TKH
just saw youtubes of KH and JP's preaching... on December 9th, 2009 7:41 pm

to TKH, did u hear Kong Hee’s preaching in Sweden abt that megachurch cheap grace pastor ? If he has proof of that dangerous cheap grace preacher , he should substantiate it and warn all Christians about that wolf in sheep’s clothing. How can anyone preach that the more you sin , the more grace you experience, and not condemn adultery n dishonesty ? However if Kong Hee is misquoting and slandering another pastor; he is as guilty, if not more guilty than michaellow and shut up please in criticising God’s annointed , as he himself is supposed to be God’s annointed …

I found this from Joseph Prince commenting on how Paul would have been considered a “cheap grace” preacher here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10lue7bhcK0&feature=related

and don’t see him expounding any of the things Kong Hee has accused the “cheap grace pastor” of. I would really want to see evidence that Prince (or whoever else KH is alluding to) is guilty of what Kong Hee mentioned so that I can warn people abt NCC; or else to see a confirmation from KH that he was NOT referring to NCC so as to put a stop to the mudslinging. Either way , Kong Hee needs to respond and not let you and other CHC members continue to defend him or attack commentators who disagree with KH’s views. thanks.
michaellow on December 9th, 2009 9:43 pm

The lautar got say that fasting is for Increasing the anointing level. Then he got quote proof verse say that “Jesus says that certain demons can’t be expelled except by prayer and fasting (Matt.17:21).” Funny thing hor, I go read my NIV Bible hor, suddenly I got see ehhh Matt 17:21 cannot find in NIV Bible. No such verse in main text although got mention as footnote. So I got puzzled and go to corresponding verse in Mark 9:29. This time I got see the verse “He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.” But why is fasting not mentioned in Mark 9:29 which is corresponding account of Matt 17:21? Then I check KJV then oni I got see Matt 17:21 and oso Mark 9:29 “And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting. So I confirm that lautar use is KJV. But still puzzled why fasting got mention in one Bible but not in another.

So I go check my own pastor library today! I check in book, ‘Word Pictures of the New Testament’ by A T Robertson (2004). This is what the book got say about Mark 9:29 QUOTE ‘AND FASTING’ DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE TWO OLDEST GREEK MANUSCRIPTS (Aleph and B). It is clearly a late addition to help explain the failure. But it (fasting) is needless and also untrue. Prayer is what the nine had failed to use….” UNQUOTE.

Some more I got check Commentary of Matthew by Leon Morris. In the notes, the scholar got say QUOTE; Some manuscripts include verse 21 (rendered in KJV as ‘howbeit this kind goeth out not by prayer [and fasting]. But it is omitted in the oldest manuscripts, and there seems to be NO GOOD REASON FOR HOLDING IT TO BE PART OF THE TRUE TEXT… UNQUOTE

I remember my pastor got teach is always good to exegete Greek text first. Sometimes if got variation because of different manuscripts, is always better to follow oldest manuscripts because they more reliable. The more nearer to Jesus time, the more reliable is the manuscript to use for translation. Newer manuscripts likely got scribal errors. Then he got teach us, since time of KJV translation, got many more very old manuscripts discovered, some in Vatican, some in other monasteries. This one he say is God blessing because now we got more accurate understanding of Bible.

All this information if someone got study Doctor of Theology must surely know tio boh? Must surely know which Bible version got more accurate translation tio boh? How come the lautar get his proof verse for double anointing from verse which is shaky, not reliable! Not got found in many Bible texts of most new versions of today. I got check NASB, Message, NLT, ESV, CEV, NCV, ASV, NIRV, TNIV all donch have Matt 17:21 and in Mark 9:29, donch have word ‘fasting’. Only KJV, NKJV and translations like Amplified, Darby, Young based on KJV have this verse. Obviously is shaky to get doctrine from verse which not reliable. But the lautar got get his proof verse for double anointing from unreliable translation. Want get Dr of Theology must have study bible language tio boh? Some more must have exegesis study tio boh?
michaellow on December 9th, 2009 10:14 pm

Dear Micheallow ahhhh, you got say “give him a benefit of doubt that he too was duped” Of course, of course! guess Rev Ming Yi oso got duped to get PHD from Mannin University.
michaellow on December 9th, 2009 10:34 pm

OK lahhhh alll… It is Christmas in 2 weeks time. Because is season of peace and goodwill, I oso think I must extend peace and goodwill.

I got ask for forgiveness from all for sharp and offensive remarks. This because I just got get epiphany. Oso sincere apologies to the lautar. Words spoken cannot take back I know, so I oni can say I not post anymore to demand any answers or criticize. I will just pray from now on. What I got do here is oso no good for my own spiritual life. I will beat my sword into a plowshare for my own use.

Godbless all of you and I got really mean it
albert on December 9th, 2009 11:03 pm

Wah so many comment within one day, maybe someone is assuming multiple identities?

Dear Shut Up Please,

To clarify the air with regard to your remark: I have heard quite a number of Pastor Prince sermon and subscribed to his podcast. I have also engaged in discussion with some of people who are member of NCC with regards to this teaching

Please dont be so quick to assume things
MyNamezIsAhHuatTar on December 9th, 2009 11:57 pm

Dear Michael Low,

I oso apologise to you, please forgive me for attacking you.
I salute you for talking in good language. Lets all be bro in Christ.
Now I can learn from you.

Really this time,

GOD BLESS YOU …3X.

Hallelujah… Jesus is Lord!
About 4 girls and Sun on December 10th, 2009 12:01 am

Sun’s video is not just about the bikini dress.

It is about 4 girls rubbing their hands over her body.

And CHC says it is purely entertainment.

We all know 4 girls rubbing Sun’s body is not ‘pure entertainment’ in a normal night club or disco. No one does that in the real world, or of the world. Only in the unreal realm of pornography.

This is bordering on infringing on the Holy Temple of Christ.

If Pastor Kong and Sun is so easily swayed that 4 girls can touch her body, please do not edify her to be the Role model for the unchurched throughout Asia.

That is stumbling to all Christains.

We should not allow our bodies to be touched by anyone except our spouse – please ensure Dayan is taught that!!

And you want to Fast to be anointed with that kind of teaching on allowing people to touch your body??
THK on December 10th, 2009 12:05 am

thank you TKH.

It is edifying that you find the comment in sweden to be fine with regards to other Brother in Christ commenting on teaching of Grace.

Even if that brother erred, like your Pastor did in getting an erroneous Phd – we should be forgiving in tone.

I am glad you have shown that Pastor Kong is right in his approach towards another brother in Christ, exemplified by his tone in that youtube.

Kong was respectable to another Church brother. You have convinced me of how Kong has convinced you all!

Right!!
THK on December 10th, 2009 12:07 am

Thanks – michellow – merry Christmas to you too.

Now if only someone else will come forward and give us a good Christmas blog as edifying as your post – and come clean on his wrong doings.

God bless……
Jin Chong on December 10th, 2009 12:11 am

Hi pastor,

thank you so much for such a wonderful post.

Just to let you know that even though there are so many people hating you out there, seeing their comments break my heart, be sure that there are thousands more who loves you.

I LOVE YOU PASTOR!

be encouraged!
TKH on December 10th, 2009 2:24 am

Dear michaellow,

Please choose for yourself which version you prefered on Mt 17:21 …

(ALT) “But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”

(ASV) But this kind goeth not out save by prayer and fasting.

(Bishops) Howebeit, this kynde goeth not out, but by prayer and fastyng.

(CUV-S) 至於这一类的鬼，若不祷告、禁食，他就不出来（或作：不能赶他出来）。」

(Darby) But this kind does not go out but by prayer and fasting.

(DRB) (17:20) But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting.

(EMTV) However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”

(ESV) [But this kind never comes out except by prayer and fasting.]

(Geneva) Howbeit this kinde goeth not out, but by prayer and fasting.

(IBIS) (Tetapi roh jahat yang semacam ini, hanya bisa diusir oleh doa dan puasa saja.)”

(ISV) But this kind does not come out except by prayer and fasting.”

(KJVA) Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

(LITV) But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.

(MKJV) However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.

(Murdock) But this kind goeth not out, except by fasting and prayer.

(Webster) However, this kind goeth not out, but by prayer and fasting.

(WNT) But an evil spirit of this kind is only driven out by prayer and fasting.”

(YLT) and this kind doth not go forth except in prayer and fasting.’

I hope you are aware that some churches believed in “Verbal Plenary Preservation”, where they claimed that the only correct version is the KJV. (http://www.truth.sg/)

Personally I think that every version has its plus points to help us understand the Bible better …

You can do a search to find out more about the debate on which versions are considered more accurate …

Hence I think your point of views are not so relevant to the blog discussion here …

God bless

TKH
TKH on December 10th, 2009 2:32 am

To ■About 4 girls and Sun on December 10th, 2009 12:01 am

Obviously you still can’t get over the MV … please read up all the 1000 over comments in the previous blog …

It is pointless to continue this discussion as our views differ … Of course you can hold on to your views, but once again, I would like to caution you to avoid the path of hurling insults and accussations as such actions are unhealthy for our own souls …

I would encourage you to let the Lord has His way in CHC. If we are mistaken, the Lord will guide us back by His grace and mercy. If we are on the right path, may the Lord continue to prosper our works for His Kingdom …

Bottomline is, let God be the judge, else we may end up assuming God’s position, which is unadvisable …

God bless …

TKH
Ben Jen on December 10th, 2009 5:59 am

Ever wonder why CHC pastors are always asking for money during offering time in services? They often give a “long” sermon to ask you to give. The main reason is if you look at CHC audited financial statements at their church website, you will see lots of DEFICITS. Amazing isn’t it? This only shows the congregation at CHC is not supporting this cultural mandate and not giving to the church. So much so for the “largest” church in Singapore!
MyNamezIsAhHuatTar on December 10th, 2009 9:05 am

To ■Ben Jen on December 10th, 2009 5:59 am

Didn’t know that it was deficit. You so sharp eye. But I think its OK. In time CHC young congregation shall learn the principle of sowing seeds, walking with God, hearing His Voice, having a relationship and eventually Obedience to the Lord. Everything is all right. The wonderful glorious grace of God is sufficient for all. Not everyone become tithers on the very day they enter a church.

Remember when we first go to church, someone else paid for our seat, then eventually we pay for someone else as we encounter the Grace of God and become tithers. CHC’s growth like NCC’s growth is very fast. So many new vistors every week – deficit BAD, for man, many people come, good for God.

Different pastors have different emphasis from different angles from the Word of God but all want to glorify God. All preachers are guilty and have at one time or other cheekily quoted other pastors (without naming them or the church) to use as an example to emphasise their message to their congregation. This case Kong Hee in Sweden for Word of Life (emphasis on Word and Salvation). Unfortunately someone, by the name of Alvin out of mischieve put it permanently on his blog and tilt it with some remarks insinuating slander and that got the ‘FIRE’ flaming. The message was suppose to be closed-door but somehow got into Youtube and eventually some NCC- Word of Faith (Spoken Faith and Salvation) people or followers thought they were being openly targeted.
Ask Pastor Prince honestly whether he sited anyone before?

OK lah NCC side, we are sorry to you, spare CHC lah – they good people. I not so good, take ME instead – go ahead HOH LU PAK KAH KAM GUAN lah.

…for the sake of Peace.
THK on December 10th, 2009 9:07 am

Thank you TKH….

Quote:
It is funny to note that even when you realised Pst Kong did not speak against Ps Prince, you still insist that what he said was wrong.

Listening to the speech, I can only conclude that Ps Kong is making a factual statement about the false teaching of cheap grace.

Mt 24:12 warns us that in the last days, because lawlessness (not legalism) will abound, the love of many will grow cold. I think that is what Ps Kong trying to convey in his message. (I must say this is how I perceive it, you may disagree with me.)

You said “Face up now. Do not continue as if the speech never occured.”

Face up what? For preaching the truth? I think the speech is not falsely accusing anyone

Unquote:

TKH – you have just given the ammunition to SHUT UP PLEASE to continue speaking in the same condemning tone as Pastor Kong did in his Sweden Sermon.

Yes, what SHUT UP PLEASE is doing is also warning others about lawnessness, where the Wife of a head of church (eg Mary, wife of Joseph) can strut around semi-naked.

Seriously, why Fast when you want to be of the world.?

So if the tone of Pastor Kong is ok – expect the same in other people’s critique of your pastor.

You reap what you sow. Please inform your Pastor about this fact of life.
Joke! on December 10th, 2009 9:15 am

MyNamezIsAhHuatTar

what a joke –

the error is whose?

Alvin, or NCC –

this kind of apology also got?

Really, do talk to your Pastor to review this area of his life in Sweden and give us an honest account – error or not.

If he want to – share the tapes so we can hear the real words of that so called Pastor, so we can make a decision if Pastor Kong is saving us, or tearing down another church with selective quotes out of context.

We need evidence to quell this once and for all. If not, Pastor must then be guity of selective listening, like FM 90.5
THK on December 10th, 2009 9:24 am

Bottomline is, let God be the judge, else we may end up assuming God’s position, which is unadvisable …

God bless …

TKH

Yes, indeed – share the tapes on youtube like Alvin did on his blog – and let the listeners decide.

I do find Pastor Kong stumbling – until the tapes are reavealed – if they were there in the first place ;)
THK on December 10th, 2009 9:33 am

DRB) (17:20) But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting.

So we fast only if we want to cast out demons is it?

Other than that you mean Jesus never tell his flock to Fast is it?

Then why is Pastor going back to old testament in all his examples in blog above?

Come on – be of this world and move on to New testament.

TKH – please edfy us – any other quotes from New Testament.

Thanks!
MyNamezIsAhHuatTar on December 10th, 2009 9:39 am

TO ■Joke! on December 10th, 2009 9:15 am

OK lah ..give you my other cheek…
Cheekily on December 10th, 2009 9:39 am

Sad to hear this:

All preachers are guilty and have at one time or other cheekily quoted other pastors (without naming them or the church) to use as an example to emphasise their message to their congregation.

Unquote

Let this be a lesson to all Pastors in all churches then – your flock is watching you as an example.

Cheekily? This does not absolve you from the errors of your ways.

If for a moment you are not loving to your brother, to your neighbour, you have failed God’s test. And on God’s pulpit.

No need to Fast if you do not admit to it and seek pardon.

We should thank Alvin for posting it up to know this kind of thing happen cheekily all the time / sometime / only once (??!!) at CHC.

Wow – a revelation.
About 4 girls and Sun on December 10th, 2009 9:57 am

TKH

Quote

It is pointless to continue this discussion as our views differ … Of course you can hold on to your views, but once again, I would like to caution you to avoid the path of hurling insults and accussations as such actions are unhealthy for our own souls …

Unquote

Sorry – these are not insults and accusations.

It is a fact – a visual fact that Sun allowed 4 girls to caress her body on MTV.

It is expected in the entertainment world, – sure – if you believe that your body is a holy temple to be shared with 4 girls –

I find that sexually deviant and stumbling as a Christian.

I find it entertaining if Adam Lambert kissed a guy cos he is an entertainer and not a Christ lover.

Seriously, following that you want to fast – to atone for the errors of her flesh?
Joke on December 10th, 2009 9:59 am

MyNamezIsAhHuatTar

ohhh – you so cheeky……

nice touch, but CHC is not at fault here. Email your boss can?

Thanks. Love your spirit.
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 10:24 am

Hi all,

don’t you find that Ben Jen, michellow and SHUT UP PLEASE! are like the woman in youtube?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4QcyEjMydk&feature=related

No point discussing one. They will just continue in their point over and over again, using God’s name and thinking in their logic, consumed in their own thinking, not concerned about what is happening around the people lives.

So what if life is impacted? So what if this article encourages others to fast? It is not their agenda.

Think about it.
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 10:27 am

Hi all,

Just watch what they reply next.
Just to prove my point on the youtube.
Cheekily on December 10th, 2009 10:42 am

Micheallow –

God bless you too.

Have a great Christmas and yes, let us spread good cheer.

I am glad to have read your posts here which is edifying.
Frank Lee on December 10th, 2009 10:44 am

hahaha!

Shut Up Please!

‘A Satan’s spirit would invites further arguments and debate, while the Spirit of Jesus brings Joy, Peace and Grace.’ by SHUT UP PLEASE

err… u come top this blog and bring arguments and debate…

u definitelty not bringing joy peace and grace here lor

so errr…

did you just died by your ownsword huh?
or shot yrslef in your foot ?

hahahaahhaahah
Your comments provide comedy on a rainy afternoon.

why u so farneee huh?

How very interesting that you go around to people blog and saying people as being demonised hor.

really mature?
really educated?
really Christ-like?

we dun even need an intellogent man to see the flaws in yr logic & deconbsrtut yr thoughts.
a uneducated man like yrs truly can liao lor.
Frank Lee on December 10th, 2009 10:45 am

To ihopeiamwrong,
ihopeiamwrong on December 9th, 2009 1:04 pm
“The whole deception in the churches is the wheat look like the tares and the tares look like the wheat”

ay… i ask u hor
What do YOU look like?
Frank Lee on December 10th, 2009 10:47 am

“I find that sexually deviant and stumbling as a Christian. ” by about 4 girls

ay,.. dun watch lor
who ask u to watch if u will get stumble leh?

if u dun eat meat, then every body eat meat alaos wrong lah?
Frank Lee on December 10th, 2009 10:49 am

■THK on December 10th, 2009 9:33 am
DRB) (17:20) But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting.

So we fast only if we want to cast out demons is it?

ay… dun be dense lah

read ur Bible!
Frank Lee on December 10th, 2009 10:51 am

“Bottomline is, let God be the judge, else we may end up assuming God’s position, which is unadvisable …

God bless …

TKH

Yes, indeed – share the tapes on youtube like Alvin did on his blog – and let the listeners decide.”
by THK

hello! THK!
TKH say let God decide not listener decide! what ‘yes indeed’?
u fail comprehension is it?
Frank Lee on December 10th, 2009 10:55 am

michaellow!
when can we discuss yrb theorlogy at yr blog huh?
i waiting very long leh
since u comment so so much
sure yr blog very de interesting one right?

give us yr address leh! or u scared?
not very nice to keep on sprouting yr views on other pp blog lah
merry christmas!
faithfully yrs! frank lee
Cheekily on December 10th, 2009 10:56 am

Frank Lee,

isn’t it amazing that with one word from Pastor Kong, all these email messages and finger pointing will cease immediately, and in all future blogs.

Sigh – look forward to Pastor Kong’s Christmas blog.

Really really want to hear his words, without interferences from other church members.
cheekily on December 10th, 2009 10:59 am

Frank Lee said:

ay,.. dun watch lor
who ask u to watch if u will get stumble leh?

CANNOT

She is the Role model for the unchurched throughout Asia. – Pastor Kong.

We all better watch and critique so she can be a superlative Spiritual Mother to all Christains as well!
Merry little Christmas on December 10th, 2009 11:06 am

So farnee – TKH and Frank Lee

“Bottomline is, let God be the judge, else we may end up assuming God’s position, which is unadvisable …

God bless …

Woah – so we have here

In the Red Corner….

Pastor Kong saying – this Cheap Grace people are ‘RIDICULOUS’

And I have the tape to prove it!!

Caught on youtube.

Please lah – let God judge lah – you on pulpit means you God isit??

Hope Pastor will find peace soon for that Transgression.

Fasting won’t help.
Frank Lee on December 10th, 2009 11:18 am

■SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 9th, 2009 6:56 pm
“I believe what you labelled as cheap grace is different from the Grace Doctrine that Pastor Joseph preached. You just took several quotes from him and built up your criticism on all his ministry. I agree with SHUT UP PLEASE! that this is a manipulation of his teaching.”

ay… very de farnie leh

how come Shut up please write that he agree withe Shut up please?

stg fishy!

who else are u impersonating shut up please?
Frank Lee on December 10th, 2009 11:21 am

■Merry little Christmas
“Please lah – let God judge lah – you on pulpit means you God isit??”

Dont be daft. obviously not. any opther qn? =)

read other comments b4 acting smart by reposting issues discussed earlier.
Frank Lee on December 10th, 2009 11:24 am

■cheekily on December 10th, 2009 10:59 am
“Frank Lee said:

ay,.. dun watch lor
who ask u to watch if u will get stumble leh?

CANNOT”

huh?
CANNOT?
oh dear… u lost yr will….
what happened?
which church u r from huh?

u poor thing.

Frank Lee speaking.
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 11:35 am

Hey Frank Lee,

you had uncovered something amazing.

It was first mentioned in:
“I wish you good, but please repent first on December 9th, 2009 11:20 am”

but when later post SHUT UP PLEASE! refer to TKH
“SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 9th, 2009 6:56 pm”

He did not refer to “I wish you well”.
I think he accidentally copy and paste his previous comments as an impersonator of another person.

Indeed Shut up please have an ulteria motive for coming to this forum. He is not interested in the truth. He is here to slander. He is here to kill, steal and destroy… (Hmm like someone in the bible hor)

Readers, please ignore his comments. His creditability is questionable in this blog!!!!

Indeed, he needs to be worthy of his name! SHUT UP PLEASE!
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 11:50 am

There seems to be alot of impersonation here, if not one person using multiple Identity.

For example, cheekily and Cheekily have different spelling. There could be 2 possibilities:
1) cheekily is an impersonation of Cheekily, just did not notice the CAPS
2) cheekily is swapping identity (maybe with SHUT UP PLEASE!), however, accidentally posted on the blog with this mistake.

Whatever the case, it could be cheekily, SHUT UP PLEASE! and michaelshallow (oops… Michaellow, beg your pardon) is the same person supporting each other.

They are just here creating confusion to those who really wants to learn.

Truth prevails !!! We are set free from their nonsense!
why Fast / don't fast on December 10th, 2009 12:03 pm

wow.

Pastor Kong is Frank Lee, is TKH is Check your fact.

They are all the same person, or same spirit in Christ?

And the point is…… (?!!?)

alright – so the issue here is

To fast or not to fast?

I mean, after dancing half naked, shown all over the world – you want to go back to old testament to Fast?

Why?

Don’t God already love you because we all sin but Jesus died on the cross for us?

Or God held back His love a bit, so that he will love you more, annoint you more – after you fast?

And maybe, like a vending machine – make you rich and wildly famous in USA…..
ST on December 10th, 2009 12:04 pm

Quote:
To sad…. on December 7th, 2009 9:42 am
“… My first post to Kong Hee to disable comments still stands. Pastor Kong Hee – if u read this , pls do something / say something to your devoted followers. It is well and good to enjoy the devotion of 27000 loving followers, but think of the larger body of Christ and more importantly, the non-believers who see nothing but mudslinging in your blog comments. Blessings to all and I hope the mudslinging stops !”

On the contrary, I feel this is a sign of Pastor Kong’s willingness to allow people to comment on his blog. Any ‘lesser’ person might have opted for the easier route and simply disabled comments! But I do agree with you – let’s keep things clean. if you are a Christian, please temper your comments well. Please don’t accuse and slander anyone. To me, this blog is a way of understanding Pastor Kong’s ‘thought’ process in a sense. It is both insightful and inspirational to me, as a believer.

In fact, after reading this entry, I too was inspired to fast for 3 days. Through it all, I was praying for a particular personal breakthrough, and yesterday (day #3), it CAME!

While some may protest the ‘necessity’ of fasting… well, to each his own, right? Just because you may not feel it is needful does not mean another fellow Christian feels that way too!

Peace.

ST
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 12:07 pm

New credential created by SHUT UP PLEASE!:

“why Fast / don’t fast”.

Can see by the quick defense of someone you don’t really know or care. Why would you defend someone you don’t know so quickly? Unless you know you are found out.

Readers, beware of accusation like that from these accounts, as they are the same people, with the same point of argument, going round and round again, with different credentials.
ST on December 10th, 2009 12:08 pm

Err, why Fast / don’t fast : did you even read the blog entry above?? I am confused cos Pastor Kong did address your questions already ah.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 12:21 pm

To Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 11:35 am

What you wrote is non-sense. Using your PK’s words, “RIDICULOUS!!!”

Using my two cents to you, “SHUT UP PLEASE!”

I don’t think uneducated persons like you in CHC can challenge my points of view. You can only ask others not to see my comments, but wrote nothing to challenge all my comments above.

From your writings I wonder whether your church (CHC?) is “Cheap Grace Church” that your PK mentioned.

“Those cheap grace people would say there is no cruxification of the flesh.” – from PK in Sweden

–> I want to speak this quote to the wife of that PK – Sun Ho
Her flesh in Chinawine and Fancy Free was so revealing

Is the following logical?
1) Sun Ho is so sexually revealing in MV Chinawine and Fancy Free
2) Sun Ho has not cruxified her flesh
3) PK said that those “cheap grace people” would say “no need to cruxify the flesh”
4) Sun Ho is from CHC and her wife is senior pastor of CHC
5) The leaders in CHC has not cruxify their flesh
6) The leaders in CHC are “Cheap Grace People” that PK mentioned
7) PK himself is that “Cheap Grace Preacher” that he preached in Sweden
8) CHC is the “Cheap Grace Church” that PK preached in Sweden

TKH is right that PK has not mentioned any name of the church or pastor that PK labelled as “Cheap Grace”.

I understand now. PK want to tell the world in Sweden that his church and he himself is “Cheap Grace People”!!
a muse on December 10th, 2009 12:24 pm

Shut up please.

Grow Up.

Your words are unkind, demeaning and unbecoming of a Christian.
a muse on December 10th, 2009 12:25 pm

Ben Jen,

You are obviously trying to stir up trouble.
You have posted the same remark on the bother page and now you are here.

Who are you? Where do you come from?
Anyway to address your claim

Some quick answers
“Ever wonder why CHC pastors are always asking for money during offering time in services?”Ben Jen

1.Of course, we collect money during offering.

What do you give during offering in church? doves?

“They often give a “long” sermon to ask you to give. ” Ben Jen

2. Your definition of long? Watch our sercvice live on the internet.

Offering sermons are seldom longer than 7 mins.

“The main reason is if you look at CHC audited financial statements at their church website, you will see lots of DEFICITS.” Ben Jen

3. You sure you know how to read financial statements??

The church finances are healthy.

“This only shows the congregation at CHC is not supporting this cultural mandate and not giving to the church.” Ben Jen
Nonsense!

4. Nothing can be further than the Truth.

Your leap of logic is lurdicrous and irrational.

The congregation turns up week after week faithfully and give
generously for a reason.

We are no fools.

“So much so for the “largest” church in Singapore!” Ben Jen

5. Thank you.
New cultural mandate on December 10th, 2009 12:25 pm

Item 32

Do not judge our Pastor.

But allow the CHC Pastor to judge other church sermons.

Cheekily. No taping of sermons allowed.
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 12:25 pm

When the truth is spoken, every manifestation appears.
Readers, the truth had set all of our concerns free.

I rest my case. :)
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 12:32 pm

Hi a muse,

to “clarify” my earlier blog,
SHUTUP PLEASE! is exposed, so he kena lost it by screaming at me, hurling insults, and screaming at the last of his statement.

It’s ok. Manifestation always comes when truth is revealed.
:)
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 12:41 pm

Hi all,

I would love to thank Frank Lee for the revelation in revealing this horrifying act of slandering. He is the one who made me realise people can actually do that.

Assist alot in my investigation. I went to the different blogs of Pastor Kong and realise the same thing over and over. One identity would share, and another would agree, creating a false impression that there are alot of people not happy. But it is still the manipulation on one party.

The style of writing, in order to cover it up, are swung to the extreme, like using a hokkien style, yet showing depth in Christian history. this is so that when he writes using another identity, he will not be found similar.

So SHUTUP PLEASE adopted a rude and angry style, Michaellow and hokkien style, and Ben Jen a proper English style, Cheekily too.

But their content and insult point is always the same. Their online timing is almost the SAME! And they will defend for each other, supporting each other’s point like, “well said. It is really edifying… blah blah”.

Well readers, we managed to expose this plot. :)
Prayer on December 10th, 2009 12:41 pm

The mud slinging has started again?

Shameful Christians.

I wonder who can end this?

Pastor Kong, in your wisdom, pray for the flock of Christians in Singapore.

Only you who cast the first stone in Sweden can end this.

I remain faithfully yours.
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 12:45 pm

Oh… new identity: Prayer.
The names get more and more Holy huh.

:)
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 1:00 pm

Check your facts !

Shut Up!
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:01 pm

Damn, caught.

I am micheallow, shut up please, new cultural mandate, salt and light, amy, apple, why fast/don’t fast, – , grieve, thk, ihopeiamwrong, parent , new christian, ben jen, Joy, prayer

Yes, the conspiracy is uncovered.

I apologise to all who have been upset by my comments.

Please forgive me.

PS -please ignore those who write after me to say they are not me, or claim that they are really them and not me :)

Get what I mean.

Who am I?

24601 Jean Valjean.

So – fast or don’t fast? Merry Christmas to one and all.

From all of us!
Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 1:04 pm

haha.

Apologies accepted. Go on your way and sin no more.
:)
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:13 pm

haha

Sin no more… After chinawine

Sun came back to sin in Fancy free….

She never learn her lesson also…

Red dress, midrib showing, come hither look – and a floral arrangment in her crotch. I love it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wp1vUe49Lg

Really Spiritual mother
Thanks "Check your facts" on December 10th, 2009 1:17 pm

Steady man!!

No wonder their replies are so insulting, and so in agreement. What you say makes sense. No wonder Prayer come in the middle of no where to insult you. Never thought of them that way.
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:17 pm

yes – love 2:22 best.

she look really skinny – you think she fasted??

hahaha!
To these slanders on December 10th, 2009 1:20 pm

Hi whomever it may concern,

If what verCheck your facts says is true, maybe Michaellow, who am I, shut up please take your comments somewhere else.

We really appreciate constructive comments and not someone who is here to cause trouble.

Thanks.
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:36 pm

Check your fact…

haha.

Apologies accepted. Go on your way and sin no more.
:)

unquote

Sin no more……

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyHhGYsdkEc&feature=player_embedded

time 0.05 to 0.10 min

what is she touching? Why?

It is just entertainment – entertainment for her, and for you, me and all viewers.

Got holy temple? No!

Still, Pastor Kong says she is the role model…..must follow her?
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 1:47 pm

SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 1:00 pm
is not written by me.

All my comments must have supporting.

SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 1:00 pm must come from CHC who want to demean my holy reputation.

I would not like Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 12:41 pm. He can only ask CHCers not to read all commentators who speak the truth. The strategy of Check your facts on December 10th, 2009 12:41 pm is like the leaders in North Korea…………..
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:50 pm

Shut up please.

Accept my apologies, for taking over your name.

I am so sorry.

God bless you.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 1:50 pm

I think
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:13 pm
must come from CHCers as well.

These CHCers have no power to challenge my comments above, because what I wrote is truth.

I am delighted that CHCers can only do what
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:13 pm
has done – to challenge whether the commentators are the same.

But I tell you though you may distract CHCers from all my points to PK, but the whole world still know those points that PK is wrong.
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:51 pm

Micheallow

Please have a good Christmas.

I apologise for hijacking your name.

God bless you.
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:52 pm

Ben Jen, Amy, Apple, salt and light.

I am so sorry. I think Frank Lee / Check up your facts must have inspired me so much.

I apologise for hijacking your names.

Forgive me.
who am I on December 10th, 2009 1:54 pm

Ihopeiamwrong,

sorry to you too.

I should not have hijack your name.

It was fun but short lived.
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 2:01 pm

Dear Pastor,

was so inspired after reading this post!
am on my 48 hrs fast starting from this morning..
felt challenge & led ytd to start fasting as i was on my way to work.
This is my very first time in my whole 7yrs as a christian to fast for 48hrs.. usually 6-6 alr killed me! haha!
God is doing sumting in my life!

ALL THE WAY PASTOR!

Love!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 2:03 pm

Reply to To these slanders on December 10th, 2009 1:20 pm

Quote
We really appreciate constructive comments and not someone who is here to cause trouble.
End Quote

Why did you not teach your pastor such “truth”? Do you consider what he spoke in Sweden was “constructive”? Do you think words like “RIDICULOUS” from his mouth towards those he claimed as “Cheap Grace People” and “Cheap Grace Preacher” were constructive?

Can’t you teach your pastor first? The holy apostle of God in CHC??????????????
SQ on December 10th, 2009 2:08 pm

Hi guys today is my 4th day of fasting. My clothes is loser and have been attending the prayer meeting everyday. Feel really great and the best part is I am not forced to fast and pray!
caught this on unwholesome post on December 10th, 2009 2:09 pm

Heard CHC have a lot of pretty girls. Wonder when CHC girls are going to fulfill the cultural mandate by doing some videos like this:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-J44jLe9xQwM/sexy_hot_girls_5_wmv/

Like someone mentioned earlier, there is no nakedness and sex so it’s ok. Especially since Esther presumably also dressed in a very provocative way.

Looking forward to it.

CHC – tio boh? like this can is it?

I think must fast first to reach this shape…..

I can imagine Sun in all these poses, in bikini…..

Entertainment hor – not real.
to Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 2:13 pm

you are not supposed to tell the world…..

or put CT instead of Christine Tan…..

now people will think you are like old testament pharisees – trying to be holy like Pastor Kong.

Again, I think this post is stumbling…..

hope this helps

God bless and Good Luck.

SQ – great job! Heard mynameissun.com has new entry – something about her success in a radio station….

wooohooo
cult death on December 10th, 2009 2:16 pm

I heard a cult sat in a steam room – until someone died recently.

Pastor – please check all your cell groups and ensure no one dies from this 3 day fasting experiment.

Even if one female student suffers from gastric problem – this will be on your conscience.

Highly dangerous.

Take care, God bless.
concerned parent on December 10th, 2009 2:19 pm

Pastor, do you think students under the age of 21 should get their parent’s consent in all your cell groups?

This cell group peer pressure- I think can be very strong in teens.
concerned parent on December 10th, 2009 2:27 pm

I have read Yancy and other Christian writers….where you pray and it does not get answered –

it is probably not time yet

nowhere in those other books do they tell you to fast to hasten God’s timing.

Please be mindful of Pastor’s call to fast to ‘Rush’ God’s will -esp for Sun wish no. 3
Elihu on December 10th, 2009 2:31 pm

Hi Pastor,

I had been fasting for 6 days now. Tomorrow would be my last days. Your posting is so practical and simple to follow. It had been tough man. Not sure how you managed to do it for 21 days.

Fasting really reveal alot of myself and I got so much to change in my flesh. Thanks Pastor. You have certainly impacted me in this blog.
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 2:32 pm

oohhh, y cant i post my name? it is a msg to my pastor, not anyone else here. (:

i am NOT boast about my fasting & etc.
well too the PURE, ALL things are PURE.
is all about what is in the HEART & MIND (:

FYI: Those who judge & comment are more “pharisees alike” i guess..
becos they will always tink that they are right and they are the best.
Most holy & flawless.

if im gonna be bother or care about everyone’s opinion on me..
i’ll be so busy! HAHA!
which i dun wish to waste my time.

God bless!
LOVE!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 2:45 pm

Reply to Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 2:32 pm

Why does people in CHC always like to quote “to the PURE, ALL things are PURE” in Bible?? Why all CHCers follow PK’s misquote of this verse??

Is that if Sun Ho is PURE, it is PURE for her to reveal her flesh to all people in the world? Is that if PK is PURE, he can condemn and label others as “RIDICULOUS” and “Cheap Grace People”?

Really PURE? I don’t think so. Those like you and PK who claims that he/she is PURE is the “Modern Day Pharasee”…………..

The minutes that you claim you are pure make you impure!!!!!!!!!
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 3:12 pm

to Shut up Please!:

Why we use “to the pure all things are pure”?
Why not ask Jesus how come it is WRITTEN?
gues you people read the bible more than anyone else..
since u seems so well versed in the word?

Its about changing people life & impacting it!
its nv abt sitting here rant and rant lk a baby who only drinks milk.
Time to take solid food.
They impact more life then us.
The fact is they really did it. DID YOU?
why do the devils work for them?
You’re interesting!

Guess who are the “Modern day pharase”
hmmm it’s rather obvious i guess!

some side tracking: crazy ppl will nv say that they are crazy ^^

Cheers, Jesus still loves You!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 3:22 pm

Reply to Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 3:12 pm

It is interesting that CHCers like you always quote what PK only quote.

Read your Bible in Titus 1:15, the whole verse is:
To the pure all things are pure: but to them that are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.

What I am against is not this verse, but the way that CHCers like you and PK misquote the verse!!

It is clear that Sun Ho and that PK’s insulting words does not classify as “PURE” in the first part of the verse, but the second part of the verse – but to them that are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but both their mind and their conscience are defiled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 3:29 pm

To the pure all things are pure: but to them that are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.

is not about the outward but the INWARD.
What we see is jus the OUTWARD unless you know them personally.

read from verse 13 on words.
“but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.”
Its is written to the people to rebuke those who think that they are always upright. (:
why read the first only? read everything! HAHA!
dun eat chicken rice with chicken and plate.
Sorry to say, but it is reallt v stupid.
Ok i shall not do devils work from him.
You enjoy ok? HAHA! ;)

LOVE!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 3:39 pm

Reply to Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 3:29 pm

You are really the “Cheap Grace people” that PK preached.

Quote
is not about the outward but the INWARD.
What we see is jus the OUTWARD unless you know them personally.
Unquote

So that if Sun Ho and PK are PURE inward, so that they can do whatever they want outward – to stumble men and arous their sexual desires by wearing sexually revealing clothes, to dance in sexually attractive way to make men fall into mastubation, to criticize and label others as RIDICULOUS and “Cheap Grace people”…

I can’t see anyone from NCC is Cheap Grace people, but seems PK, Sun Ho, you, and CHCers are those “Cheap Grace People” that PK preached! From your words you like that kind of Cheap Grace People that PK preached!!
huh on December 10th, 2009 3:42 pm

So SHUT UP PLEASE! is from NCC huh…
Out of the heart the mouth spoke,
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 3:43 pm

hahaha *clap hand* & be excited abt what u have jus said ok?!

LOVE YOU MAN! YOU ROCKS!
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 3:47 pm

to huh:

LOL~ well its alr sort of obvious as we only got a few “enemies”
that same old few, always talking abt same old tings for years..
what to do? LOL!

Cheers ;)
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 4:04 pm

Reply to huh on December 10th, 2009 3:42 pm

I have not said that I come from NCC. Which Church I goes is both my privacy, what is the matter with you??

Reply to Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 3:43 pm

I am just using PK’s words to comment on PK, Sun Ho, you and CHC. It does not mean that I agree with PK said!!!!!!!!!

You clap your hands, because you are the unanimous follower of PK………………… Using PK’s words, “RIDICULOUS”…………….
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 4:13 pm

* clap hands * for u because what you say is correct, jus stick to it..
WELL DONE & GOOD JOB! (:
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 4:19 pm

Reply to Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 4:13 pm

Good. You agree with that PK, Sun Ho, you and CHCers are “Cheap Grace People” that PK preached. I clap hands too……

Well, I heard that the daughter of Tan Ye Peng (CHC’s CEO & Senior Pastor) is called Christine. Are you actually her daughter??? If yes, what you write can really represents CHC.

Just curious…….
follow who? on December 10th, 2009 4:23 pm

Matt 6:16-18]
16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,

18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

unquote
So how? Follow Bible or follow Pastor?

Aiyoh – announce in this blog and follow Pastor Kong lah….

Christine Tan – God bless you. Sure lose weight one ;) But don’t lose your health.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 4:31 pm

Agree with follow who? on December 10th, 2009 4:23 pm

Fasting is like sexual intercourse – must be done in secret. Only those “Cheap Grace People” would tell all the world that they are fasting, how often they fast, etc…

If you are new in this blog, please note that “Cheap Grace People” is a term used by PK to refer to those he don’t like.
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 4:36 pm

to SHUT UP PLEASE!:

aiya go ahead and say what u wants lo..
u happy can already.. being alivw most imptantly is to be happy..
no point shooting u so much, u cant take it de la.. trust me (:

hahaha wow even Ps Tan daughter u also know?
indeed KPO! v smart..hahhaa good good, press into our church news more.. you will be bless! (:
FYI im 20 yrs old, his daughter is still quite young..

to follow who? :

haha thanks! but diet is not my main purpose im alr 45kg.. LOL
God will nv allow things to happen to me without His signature & chop (:

LOVE!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 4:46 pm

Reply to Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 4:36 pm

Believe it or not, I come from CHC. I am a “spy” in your church so I know so much!!! hahahahahaha

I am so clear what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen in CHC, and no need to click in the news in the website………..

Anyway………. See if I can find out who you are………..
follow who? on December 10th, 2009 4:52 pm

quote:

haha thanks! but diet is not my main purpose im alr 45kg.. LOL
God will nv allow things to happen to me without His signature & chop (:

unquote

you forgot to add –

without His signature & chop & fast –

You see God did not really love you all that much …. you must fast then God will love you more and annoint you more…

got it?

Right. Follow who? Jesus new testament or Pastor Kong?

Just love your neighbour like God loves you – that is his only command.
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 4:54 pm

ohhhhh, even if u’re in CHC im not surprise.. we learnt in our bible study that demon send spies to churches ehs..so common, its ok la.. LOL!

go ahead and found out lo.. church so big.. since u so li hai, i wish u all the best in advance first! HAHA!
Joker! (:

LOVE!
Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 4:56 pm

i guess u got my meaning wrong (:
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 5:01 pm

Reply to Christine Tan on December 10th, 2009 4:54 pm

Sure la. You see all my tones of writing is the same as PK.
It is very logical that I come from CHC.
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 5:10 pm

To Kong Hee:

I suggest when you write on your blog next time, please do a deep research first on the subject. Otherwise it just make yourself shameful.

Also, please apologize for all things that you wronged other people. Your “Earn Anointing by fasting” Doctrine is clearly unBiblical!! The verse you quoted is un-reliable as mentioned by someone above. Please study NTGreek in University again if you don’t understand.

This is how you can improve your writing. If I grade this article (like teacher gives grades to students), I would say this article is BELOW AVERAGE………………………..
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 10th, 2009 5:12 pm

I am so wonder that so many people like to use my names…..

Anyway, you may treat me as a CHCer as you want……………..
I love you Pastor Kong! on December 10th, 2009 5:37 pm

Pastor Kong,

You are our heros!

“I have been fasting regularly since 1986. In the early days, I would fast once a week for 24 hours, from 6:00 a.m. on Wednesday to 6:00 a.m. on Thursday. However, since 2004, I have been going on 21-day full fasts once every 6 months. Once, in 2007, I fasted for 40 days.”

So many! You are really a superman! If I were Jesus, I would praise you and lift you up among all the Christians! Come and fast more! Jesus will reward you more if you fast more!

It is sure that if you fast more, Jesus would bless your church and your wife more! Sun will be the best singer in the world – just only because you fast so much for her!

My dear pastor, you are so anointed! You are the most anointed one I have ever seen! Just because you fast so much! You are a great man!

Dear Pastor, really amazed that you point our the flaws of those cheap grace people! What a good job! Let’s shoot them more, for they are Satan’s son and hell is their destiny!

Most assurely CHC is the best church in world and in human history, and pastor you are the best pastor in the world and in the history too. Why? Just because you fast so much!

Praise the Lord, hallelujah! Fasting is so good! Amen!
I love him too! on December 10th, 2009 5:56 pm

No wonder he so slim and handsome for someone who is 46 years old!!

Fast what!

Dyed hair. hip clothes.

Some more part time successful business man.

Can fly around the world every weekend.

So blessed!
The Attacker Gila Liao on December 10th, 2009 6:47 pm

HeeHeeHeeHeeHee Huray!

See what you get for attacking blog.
Mentally ill swine with a legion of unclean thoughs … next thing you know is …. it’ll blow up and jump into the longkang.

Mad Goat.
Choo Gang on December 10th, 2009 6:58 pm

I must agree with what TKH said about Michallow’s edifying post. Michaellow has show that he is a gracious Christian by admitting to his ‘sharp and offensive remarks.’ All of us can learn from him about being willing to admit that words used can be hurting. I believe even church pastors, irrespective of congregation size, who like to talk about their fellow pastors can definitely learn from Michaellow’s example.

Any wrongdoing by Michaellow is in the manner he presented his message. I doubt the contents of his messages can be seen as wrongdoing since they have not been rebutted in any way.
Choo Gang on December 10th, 2009 7:16 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with Check your facts. He said that “when the truth is spoken, every manifestation appears.” I noticed this is exactly what happens whenever michaellow made a post. Just count the number of people that denigrated and vilified him each time he made a post. Don’t take my word for this. Just check your facts by counting the number of respondents to him and the kind of words they use. This truth by check your facts is really good news to us readers and had set all of our concerns free.
Clarity on December 11th, 2009 12:40 am

Hi Choo Gang,

While it is true that Michaellow made some sharp and offensive remarks and that he had admitted it, it is another that he is still making such remark. The mark of true repentence is not when he admit it, but he must turn away from it.

I guess you could really asked others to learn from him when he returned with a gentle spirit, not a harsh and offending one. What’s the point of saying sorry to your wife, when you are still punching and kicking her. The attitute we carry behind the words we say are as important, if not more important than the words itself. As we learn as adults, that it is not just the content or your words, but the attitude that defines your maturity. Such attitude just display his immaturity, and incur the wrath of those that read it.

I guess you do have a point to agree to disagree. It is not the content that that he spoke, but the arrogance behind. Respect begets respect.

Thanks.
Clarity on December 11th, 2009 12:48 am

SHUT UP PLEASE! is another one with a stinking attitude.

Every single reply contains harsh and crude reply. Why are you venting your anger on this blog? Are you really like that in real person? Maybe you do get some kick out of those who are angered by your reply.

But if you really want to seek clarification, do it with a humbling spirit. I believe more would want to commune with you rather than having this debate..
Thanks on December 11th, 2009 2:16 am

Dear Pastor,

Just want to say a big thanks for all that you have shared in your blog … I am proud to have you as my Pastor …

I have been fasting for the last 3 days, though it was tough for the flesh, but I really felt my spirit being strengthened.

I trust that God will continue to bless you …

Thanks
TAM King Soon on December 11th, 2009 2:29 am

Dear Pastor Kong,
Thanks for the sharing… I am now fasting for 21 days. but I just fast for one meal.. The information helps me alot.. Thanks…
The Attacker Gila Liao on December 11th, 2009 3:56 am

Everyone, the attacker is a spiritual Schizoid , many demons in one body. It talks to and support it-selves. Hoo..Hoo.Hoo..Rrr..RRRR..RRRR
Hoo..Hoo.Hoo..Rrr..RRRR..RRRR

He don’t need replies only need ‘exorcism’ by watching China Wine or check into mental ward… like one in the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. And to take ‘Happy’-pills.

Don’t waste time trying to explain to and provide answers for him.
He’s in sub-physical outer space unable to comprehand any reasoning or engage in any sane debate.

Just raging mad angry at everyone, letting go steam as a form of psycho-therapy. Can you imagine after he got kicked out of heaven … oops I mean church, how he must have felt. He just kept wanting to be a wannabe.
just saw youtubes of KH and JP's preaching... on December 11th, 2009 8:53 am

hey CHCers, take a chill pill !! You people are so angry with your pastor being criticised, how do you think others feel when their pastor and church are being criticised overseas. And your pastor doesn’t even bother to clarify / apologise ! At least michaellow has the grace to apologise here….

I heard / saw the youtube of Kong Hee’s ridiculing of the other megachurch /pastor and of Joseph Prince’s response here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10lue7bhcK0&feature=related

and can’t help but agree with his point that Paul would have been accused of being a cheap grace preacher as well. CHCers should go and listen to the youtubes of Kong Hee’s preaching in Sweden. He calls them “ridiculous”, mentions adultery and dishonesty in business and says they claim that the more you sin , the more grace you have. These are serious accusations which should either be supported with evidence and having the megachurch and pastor named, or for which a clarification / apology is needed. Unless either of this happens, there will always be a negative feeling to either the “suspected” church or to Kong Hee. TKH has said Kong Hee was making a factual statement. Another CHCer wrote “All preachers are guilty and have at one time or other cheekily quoted other pastors (without naming them or the church) to use as an example to emphasise their message to their congregation..Unfortunately someone, by the name of Alvin out of mischieve put it permanently on his blog and tilt it with some remarks insinuating slander and that got the ‘FIRE’ flaming. The message was suppose to be closed-door but somehow got into Youtube and eventually some NCC- Word of Faith (Spoken Faith and Salvation) people or followers thought they were being openly targeted.”

I saw alvinology’s blog. He merely asked if the 2 churches were at loggerheads with each other. I heard the entire 3 parts of Kong Hee’s preaching. I’ve attended a few churches in Singapore – I have never heard anyone quoting or criticising other churches/pastors ..but they’re not megachurches, so perhaps this only happens in megachurches to gain “marketshare”. Whatever it is , CHCers mention things like “check the facts” and mock at Kong Hee’s detractors….You should all take a chill pill cos your Pastor doesn’t seem too bothered. And you should seriously listen to what he said in Sweden and what Prince said abt Paul being accused for cheap grace….Very ashamed if the body of Christ allows God’s grace and another church / pastor to be ridiculed on the internet and makes light of it in comments of a blog by a Sr Pastor of a congregation of 27000.

I guess like michaellow, I should focus on the spirit of Christmas, that God came in the flesh and gave His life for all. So I should not sow further discord. But I cannot stand by and allow God’s grace or another anointed of his (going by the words used here for pastors) to be ridiculed / mocked at.

Let’s all take a chill pill and reflect on the price Jesus paid for us. and let’s practise some grace ourselves. No point fasting on one hand and knifing other believers at the same time ….And btw I am NOT from NCC, just a fellow believer who got directed to this blog by a confused new Christian….
I love him too! on December 11th, 2009 9:08 am

Clarity said:

I guess you could really asked others to learn from him when he returned with a gentle spirit, not a harsh and offending one.

unquote

Choo Gang, I have to agree with you.

Michaellow is of great spirit.

Better than the Pastor who has yet to make amends for his Sweden attack – calling another church ‘Ridiculous’ is not judgemental? Is fair comment? No wonder his blog devotees so kancheong spider to protect him, while he hides and pretend he never say that….cheekily.

Has he confessed to that weakness? No wonder his blog keep getting slimed.

His devotees also taking up his mantel, and following his role model.

Only Pastor can heal the church and this blog space- but I think – no guts lah, unlike Michaellow.

Anyway, I am thankful for this blog since unwholesome shallowness post which introduced me to CHC and concept of mega churches….

Made me a better student of the Bible, which I am sad to say was always lacking – and right now – still lacking. Must read scripture more!

Lessons learnt –

1) a strutting half naked gal can be a role model of the unchurched throughout asia. – and a Spiritual mother for CHC – like the Wife of Joseph. (no shame in nudity – entertainment only…..not the real Sun.?)

2) Job was perfect in God’s eye, but he was prideful and at the same time he should have said during the old testament – God should break me down like Christ (old testament, got Christ)…then I get double portion. So if you chaps want double portion – hope that you get suay suay from God. If not suay enough, go fast to suffer the suayness.

3) God loves you all. But if you fast, you get superman powers of anointing. Not that God already love you like Prodigal son, or like the workers who come to the field and started work late in the evening……… you fast more – you get more grace – (Jesus got this parable meh? I think Pastor Kong inaginery parable.)

Great blogs – keep me on my toes! Sharpens my mind.

Amen
just saw youtubes of KH and JP's preaching... on December 11th, 2009 9:38 am

just heard Kong Hee’s message again, he even alluded that the other group of believers think it’s ok to visit prostitutes and that business people from the other church found it ok to cheat CHC believers. If this is true , he should have written to or called the other pastor to help the body of Christ– orr report the wrong teachings to the Council of churches….or was it merely a case of “All preachers are guilty and have at one time or other cheekily quoted other pastors (without naming them or the church) to use as an example to emphasise their message to their congregation” as explained by the CHCer Mynameisahhuatar ? TKH says there is nothing for Kong Hee to face up to , that he is stating a fact.. If another church leader is leading fellow believers to hell by telling them to sin more , Kong Hee could have done a no. of things to stop him instead of “cheekily quoting” him to a Swedish audience. I realise after listening to Kong Hee’s words in Sweden why SHUT UP PLEASE is an angry person.

To SHUT UP PLEASE , I don’t think CHCers will take kindly to their beloved Pastor being criticized in his blog. I would urge you to forgive and move on…I have never attended megachurches as I am an old fashioned Christian. But having seen the youtubes, I have come to the conclusion that Kong Hee should not have done what he did in Sweden. Whether he targetted NCC and Joseph Prince does not matter, I think he made himself look bad for either not confronting the false preacher in his own country or cheekily (mis)quoting another preacher, whatever the case may be. I sincerely urge you to get rid of the anger. Pastor Prince alluded that he knows of others calling him (and Paul in the bible) a “cheap grace” preacher and he did not say anything negative about those “theologians” which i find impressive. I trust that people are not stupid enough to follow a preacher who tells them it’s ok to sin more in order to get more grace. So you too should take a chill pill and stop asking CHC to apologise. Joseph Prince seems to have enough confidence in God and in his flock to not retaliate. And seriously having seen his videos and Kong Hee’s, I don’t think Prince needs to dignify the supposed accusations with a response. So God bless u, shut up please. Let it go…and let God deal with it. I wish all CHCers and non CHCers a blessed Christmas. Focus on the baby Jesus who came in a stable for all of our sins. I don’t think He came so we could argue in a blog and embarrass His name and the high cost He bore to redeem all of us. I apologise for any hurt feelings that I too may have caused. But I think there has been enough mocking and hurtful words used here. Let’s all take a chill pill. Let’s follow michaellow’s lead and turn swords into ploughshares. God is just and merciful and gracious. Let’s remember His gift of Jesus and the message of peace and goodwill to all men !! I’m out of here !!!
SHUT UP PLEASE! on December 11th, 2009 10:13 am

Reply to just saw youtubes of KH and JP’s preaching…

It is Pastor Prince’s honour to be cursed and criticized in the way that people would cursed and criticized Paul. This made Pastor Prince in the list of the Great Apostle in the world history.

PK, I want to tell you that, the more you cursed and criticized Pastor Prince, the more you give honour for him to be cursed for Jesus’ sake, and the more you lifted him up like Paul, and the more you show that you yourself and your CHC are those “Cheap Grace People” that Pastor Prince preached.

I have no interest to read this blog any further – as those CHCers follow their PK 100% without independent thinking. They are being brainwashed – cannot accept criticism. There is no chance for them to be saved – let them remain as legalistic as they want, and burnt in hell for eternity – but I have warned all of you and I am not liable for your eternal destiny! Because I have warned you all!

I will not write here anymore in this blog. Please don’t use my name again!!
CHC-ers on December 11th, 2009 10:15 am

i personally attended NCC before.
i read the bible myself in my daily devotion.
comparing the word of God with Joseph Prince word.
Sorry to say its a 2 diff thing.
even the spiritually YOUNGER generation of mine, knows the diff.
whether did they practice cheap grace or not, some ppl will agree and some wont.
its im to individual.
Since you guess do not support pastor Kong than jus leave this blog.
its no diff with those childish ppl who spam others blogspot jus because the person is more famous? more outstanding? whatever reason it is.

We know our pasor well enough that whenever he said something wrong, he will apologise to the congregation in every single service. Which i witness it before.

GOOD NEWS FOR CHC-ERS!
SUN’s FANCY FREE IS #1 IN BILLBOARD CHART AGAIN!
Glory to God indeed!

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

PEACE!
f your mum on December 11th, 2009 10:23 am

CHC-ers on December 11th, 2009 10:15 am

I think you are still a child in kindergarden, since your writing is so naive. Shame on you for what you have wrote.
exciting on December 11th, 2009 10:24 am

#1 woah –

provide the link can?
CHC-ers on December 11th, 2009 10:31 am

to f ur mum:

shame to u more when u curse & swear~ HAHA!

to exciting:

it will be updated soon..this week~ jus follow her on twitter.
sigh on December 11th, 2009 10:52 am

oh please do not cross swords with teeny boppers!

Merry Christmas.
Sun of Win on December 11th, 2009 11:04 am

Quote
i personally attended NCC before.
Unquote

I doubt you are lying. Which cell group in NCC did you attend??

Quote
i read the bible myself in my daily devotion.
comparing the word of God with Joseph Prince word.
Sorry to say its a 2 diff thing.
Unquote

Please give more supporting, or else what you have said is rubbish. What do you mean by “2 diff thing”? How different? Different in what? You are so naive if you states an accusation without further explanation. You are unfair to NCC and Pastor Prince. Are all people in CHC like you and your pastor in such a naive way?

Quote
even the spiritually YOUNGER generation of mine, knows the diff.
Unquote

What is your intention in using capital letters here? You are insulting NCC and Pastor Prince. Please apologize.

Quote
Since you guess do not support pastor Kong than jus leave this blog.
Unquote

I understand now. This blog is only for the crazy supporter of Kong Hee in CHC, and outsiders not welcomed? If Kong Hee only like to listen to praise and worship to himself, he is like those pharaisees in New Testament – let him, you, CHCers and CHC be indulged in this fake “world” framework!!

Quote
We know our pasor well enough that whenever he said something wrong, he will apologise to the congregation in every single service. Which i witness it before.
Unquote

Which pastor you refer here? Kong Hee? Joseph Prince? I have never seen Kong Hee repent and apologize. Please give supporting on when and why he repent and apologize openly for what! Otherwise what you said is rubbish!

Quote
GOOD NEWS FOR CHC-ERS!
SUN’s FANCY FREE IS #1 IN BILLBOARD CHART AGAIN!
Glory to God indeed!
Unquote

What is your intention in using capital letters when refer to Sun, but small letters in “Glory to God indeed”? You regard Sun much higher than God here! You actually mean “Glory to Sun and Kong” here!!

How ridiculous!!!
The Attacker Gila Liao on December 11th, 2009 11:04 am

Symtoms:
Manifestations of a single very angry person with split-personalites , occassionally displaying unusual characteristics of the ability of those personalities to converse to and support each in blog entries.

Prognosis:
Schizophrenia with severe confused judgemental errors, with no awareness of reality.

Recommended medication / treatment :
Relaxation, fasting and leave the blog.

Results:
Recovery and PEACE.
TKH on December 11th, 2009 11:53 am

Dear Pastor,

Nice to know that unique username is now offered~

God bless!
embarrassed on December 11th, 2009 2:50 pm

Dear Pastor Kong Hee,

I listened to your preaching in Sweden from the youtube site. As TKH and others have said , u were stating a fact. Pls expose the wolves in sheep’s clothing teaching their megachurch congregation that it is ok to sin , commit adultery, visit prostitutes and cheat in business. I fully understand how your followers are so adamant in mocking / insulting followers of the megachurch – since they are sinners who believe in cheap grace. Also a good idea to say that it’s one person assuming multiple personalities so that it doesn’t appear as though independent minded Christians would dare to fault the senior pastor of 27000 members. 27000 members can’t be wrong !!

May God be honoured in your blog, not CHCers or NCCers or Joseph Prince or Sun or Kong Hee, only God and His beloved son, Jesus Christ…
Elihu on December 11th, 2009 4:09 pm

Great! now that we have unique username, there will be traces to all the posting.

Hi Pastor,

Thanks for this blog. I’ve been fasting for 7 days now, and have experienced so many miracles coming along my way. Most importantly, I placed all my important decision on the Lord and He is guiding me through.

Really appreciate you motivating us through this blog. This is the first time I’m fasting for so long. But I’m proud of it and still hanging on.

- Elihu
Ben Jen on December 11th, 2009 4:35 pm

Is She Pastor Ho Yeow Sun?
Is Ho Yeow Sun a pastor? If you are familiar with City Harvest Church, you probably would not have missed the controversy that surrounded her when she entered the secular music industry; a controversy based on arguments that it was inappropriate for a pastor to do so. I’ve read that the church leaders have in recent years sought to distance her from the tag ‘pastor’. Personally, I have encountered this possible policy a few years back when I noticed that the church bulletin started addressing her differently.

That to me was rather disappointing – disappointing because of an article published by the magazine Harvest Times.

In this article, it says “Sun is coming out…The message of effervescence and joy spreads to the Asian masses as music pastor Ho Yeow Sun delivers truly heavenly pop.”

I found this magazine when i was packing for the moving of my house. So when she first started her career, there was the deliberate positioning to associate her as a music/singing pastor.

PK has totally comprised christian values for his cultural mandate rubbish!
matthew on December 11th, 2009 5:11 pm

Hi to embarrassed.

I do not think Pastor Kong will entertain your request.

I am not from either mega churches but Pastor Kong appears really juvenile – Why?

Please note in the previous blog, Pastor Kong in his blog on 10 commandments- was guilty of quoting and lifted phrases that are lifted out of context to frame the poor Pastor Prince.

“In a recent May 11, 2009 blog entry, a prominent megachurch pastor says, “When you come under the law by trying to keep God’s commandments in order to be blessed, it will lead to death. There will be deadness in your marriage, ministry, health, career.”

deliberate truncated.

Full message

“When you come under the law by trying to keep God’s commandments in order to be blessed, it will lead to death. There will be deadness in your marriage, ministry, health, career.”
“But when you depend on the Spirit of grace, it will lead to life. You will see breakthroughs and miracles (Galatians 3:5), and manifest the fruit of the Spirit.”

See Pastor Kong mischieve? I obtained this from Stanley Tan’s comment near the end of the comment section.

Again, if you have an axe to grind of another Christian brother, I do wonder – Fast / don;t fast?
matthew on December 11th, 2009 7:47 pm

Hi all –

I do not have the tapes Kong talked about in Sweden, but I have the blog post contained here.

Monday, May 11, 2009
Continue In God’s Grace – Joseph Prince 11 May 2009
2 Corinthians 3:6
… for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

To the Jews, the feast of Pentecost is a celebration of the giving of God’s law. It takes place 50 days after the Passover feast. When God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai, it was 50 days after they had celebrated their first Passover and come out of slavery in Egypt.

But what happened after God gave them the law on the first Pentecost? Three thousand people died! (Exodus 32:28) Contrast this with another Pentecost in the New Testament. In the book of Acts, it says that when Pentecost had fully come, God gave not the law but the Holy Spirit, and what happened? Three thousand people got saved (Acts 2:41), which goes to show that “the letter [the law] kills, but the Spirit gives life”!

The law, which was “written and engraved on stones”, ministered death. It killed 3,000 people. That is why the apostle Paul calls it “the ministry of death” and “the ministry of condemnation”. (2 Corinthians 3:7–9) On the other hand, the Spirit ministered life — 3,000 people got saved.

My friend, when you come under the law by trying to keep God’s commandments in order to be blessed, it will lead to death. There will be deadness in your marriage, ministry, health, career… in your life. But when you depend on the Spirit of grace, it will lead to life. You will see breakthroughs and miracles (Galatians 3:5), and manifest the fruit of the Spirit.

So if you want to be blessed, make sure that you are on the right mountain. You see, the law was given on Mount Sinai, but the Spirit on Mount Zion. That is why the Bible says that “you have not come to the mountain [Sinai] that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest… But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels”. (Hebrews 12:18, 22) The Lord blesses you out of Zion (Psalm 128:5), and not Sinai!

Beloved, by grace you have been saved through faith. (Ephesians 2:8) Now, continue in the Spirit of grace. Remain on the right mountain and He will continue to supply miracles in your life!
MyNameIsAhuat on December 11th, 2009 7:48 pm

TO: ■Ben Jen on December 11th, 2009 4:35 pm

Quote:
Is Ho Yeow Sun a pastor?
PK has totally comprised christian values for his cultural mandate rubbish!
Unquote.

Please do not call it rubbish, and whether Pastor or not, should not be your concern, since you are most probably not from CHC.
This blog is about “Power of Fasting” not a forum for your inapropriate statement.
matthew on December 11th, 2009 7:48 pm

now compare to this message from Kong and we see how he suffers from selective hearing.And the mischief created by Kong.

http://www.konghee.com/www/2009/06/do-we-need-the-ten-commandments/

Truly, I am not from either churches, but you can read and decide if Kong does more harm than good for Both Churches
MyNameIsAhuat on December 11th, 2009 8:34 pm

TO: matthew on December 11th, 2009 5:11 pm

Quote:
Hi to embarrassed.
I do not think Pastor Kong will entertain your request.
I am not from either mega churches but Pastor Kong appears really juvenile – Why?
… See Pastor Kong mischieve? I obtained this from Stanley Tan’s comment near the end of the comment section.
Again, if you have an axe to grind of another Christian brother, I do wonder – Fast / don;t fast?
Unquote.

You are most probably right, don’t think he’ll reply you too. Maybe you repost your concerns back in the other blog, somebody might.
If Pastor Prince feels that he is grief, he can give a phone call to Past Kong and both the senior gentlemen, I think, should be able to sort it out, for all things are possible with God.

It is not for the congregation from both sides to sort this out by tit-for-tat at our level, for their level is higher than ours. We have no manners and respect for Pastors if we try to bridge across their level. If we are not from CHC or NCC, its none of our business to get involve in this “issue”, unless of course we are out for mischief ourselves.

Please, again, this blog is about “Power of Fasting” not a forum for our inapropriate discussions. Pardon me.
MyNameIsAhuat on December 11th, 2009 8:41 pm

TO:■matthew on December 11th, 2009 7:48 pm
QUOTE:
now compare to this message from Kong and we see how he suffers from selective hearing.And the mischief created by Kong.
Truly, I am not from either churches, but you can read and decide if Kong does more harm than good for Both Churches
UNQUOTE:

If you are really not from this 2 megachurces, why are you sowing more discord? Is it your Christian duty to make matters worse?
matthew on December 11th, 2009 8:52 pm

Thank you Ah Huat. Peace be with you.

Yes, it is about the power of fasting. I am so out of point.

I hope that Pastor would understand the concern of Christians who wonders why he buys the tapes of another Pastor, and use them as evidence in a Swedish Pulpit.

Go into another Pastor ’s blog to check their daily devotion, and selectively quote them to give their CHC congregation ammo to ‘ridicule’ another Church next door.

And the congregation is asked to fast to ask for ‘favours’?

Would it not be better to love another Neighbour, raise each other up and their churches, spread love all around.

Instead of tearing another down and fast for more annointing.

I may not have a Phd in theology, but if there is more love amongst brothers, maybe there is no need to fast?

Love your neighbour as Jesus loves you.

And Blessed is he who sees a miracle EVERYDAY of his life, because he came to know Christ and does not need to fast. He is content with what God gave him like how God clothe the birds.

Pity the one who sees a miracle coming only now, after knowing Christ, but losing Him and realise he gotta fast for 7 days to notice the miracles God has for him everyday.

Every single day God gives us miracles. Look around.
matthew on December 11th, 2009 8:56 pm

I speak my mind. I hope you understand where I am coming from.

I am sorry if you think I am up to mischief. It was scary at first to register myself to speak, cos I do not know if my email will be spammed.

But I trust Pastor Kong. And God.

And I know God is with me when I write.

Bless all of you, CHC and NCC and all Christians.

Raise each other up. And Lord will be pleased.
matthew on December 11th, 2009 9:03 pm

Interesting if a day, we hear this ‘

you know – I heard this great piece of news from another church and I want to share it with you….”

God, what a difference it would make!!

:) God bless.
MyNameIsAhuat on December 11th, 2009 10:16 pm

Let us pray,

“Father in Heaven, Holy is Your Name. Let Your kingdom come and Your will Lord, not ours, be be done on earth as it is in Heaven. We have all sin against our brothers and sisters and grieved You. We are sorry. Forgive us our tresspasses and transgressions as we forgive those who have tresspass and transgress against us. We plead the Blood of Jesus over our lives.
Guide us into the path of Love once again. Cover us and protect us under the shadow of Your mighty wings, that evil one cannot come near nor touch us. Give us this day your Rhema that our spirit man is made strong and to You be all the Glory.”

In Jesus’ glorious and mighty name.
Amen.
embarrassed on December 11th, 2009 11:21 pm

something to bless everyone with. What an inspiration – Nick Vujicic’s inspiring call to Christians to fulfil God’s purpose in their lives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGZYT50Bow4

4 parts in all…may u all be blessed by his testimony. There is much to be thankful for…life is too short to squabble over a pastor’s blog..have a blessed Christmas !
FearGod on December 12th, 2009 1:06 am

Dear All,

I come across a comment by Dr. Gordon Wong from Trinity Theological College. He is the Professor of Old Testament and I really think He gave a balance comment on Ps Prince’s view on the law. (From JP’s Book: Destined to Reign)

A short extract from (http://www.blogpastor.net/tag/joseph-prince/)

2. Prince’s teaching on Law

The book is very strong on rejecting the value of the Law in the OT as being of any positive help for Christians. For example, on p.120 there is a section entitled “The Ten Commandments Kill” and it says that these commandments are “the ministry of death”.

What I like: I think (and hope)
that the book is trying to say two biblical things about the Law. Firstly, it may be warning us that the Ten Commandments can be used or preached in a condemning way that destroys the soul of people and makes them cringe in fear or turn away from God as a harsh Master. This is a good biblical warning. Secondly, the book’s description of the Law as a ministry of death rather than life correctly describes and reinforces the biblical view that obedience to the Law cannot lead us to receive salvation. It is correct and very good of Prince to speak against those who are “trying to use the Ten Commandments to remove their sins” (p.124). We are saved by grace, not by obedience to the Ten Commandments or the Law. If these two points represent what Prince teaches on the Law in the Bible, then this is good and biblical.

What I had reservations about:
That the Law can be preached and understood in such a way as to promote soul-destroying guilt and deeper condemnation is certainly true. Prince is to be commended for eloquently highlighting this biblical warning about the danger of the Law, and stressing the wonderful grace of God that forgives us all through Christ. But while there are many who need this message of God’s grace-filled forgiveness to save them from their guilt and despair over sin, there are many others who need the message of God’s grace-filled discipline and rebuke to save them from presumption and indifference to sin. Prince’s emphasis on free and full forgiveness is very good at helping the former, but not so good for the latter. Does Prince believe that guilt is the only problem people have because of sin? If so, that would present an incomplete picture. Sin does not only imprison us in guilt; it also lulls us into indifference and presumption. The Bible addresses both these effects of sin. The book appears to suggest that there is no way of preaching the Law in a graceful manner in order to set us free from our sinful indifference and presumption.

Similarly, Prince is correct to stress that the Law cannot save or justify, but his writings give the impression that the Law has no other positive function except to prove that we cannot be saved by it. But the Law in the Bible is also presented as a positive expression of God’s grace in telling us what God desires. But because Prince contrasts Law and Grace in this manner, he gives the impression of implying that the Law has only the negative value of telling people that they cannot be saved by their attempts at obedience to the Law. The Law certainly does perform that valuable function, but it does much more as well. It helps us know what is good in God’s eyes. The book is weak on emphasising the ongoing value of the Law for both Christians and unbelievers.

To be fair to this book, there are certain parts of the Bible that also speak in similarly strong negative tones against the Law (e.g. most of Galatians and parts of the books of Romans and Hebrews). But this negative view is balanced out in other parts of the Bible that are very positive about the Law (e.g. Jesus in Matt 5:19-20; James 1:25; Psalm 119 etc.). In other words, the Law as a means of salvation is spoken of very negatively in the Bible, but the Law as a means of showing us God’s pleasure or desire for our lives is spoken of very positively. The book seems to emphasise only the negative picture of the Law. Doing so would fail to do justice to the biblical balance which speaks also of the ongoing positive value of the Law for Christians. Paul, himself, could sum up the Law very positively as teaching us to love one another (Gal 5:14; Rom 13:8,10).

Hope this can give some insight to all the readers …

FearGod
leila on December 12th, 2009 2:04 am

Dear everyone,

Like some of the people here I am saddened by the tone of the comments put across. Rather than pointing the finger as to ‘who started it first’, rather I do hope everyone can look at the context of Pastor’s blog and posts. His blog, and blogs by the way are a means of personal expression, not to be scrutinized as though it was a publication. True, I’m sure Pastor considers that many people would read his blog due to his influence, but as readers, we should bear in mind this fact that it is by definition a personal means of expression.

Secondly Pastor’s blog is a means of added encouragement to those who wish to read it. The comments space is here for us to voice our views and hopefully (in my opinion anyway) give some positive feedback as to how we have been blessed by Pastor’s added effort to encourage outside his Sunday sermons. The comments’ space are not here for us to ‘fight’ about two senior pastors or about differences in teaching. It is not even a topic about the two pastors. It is a topic to provide edification and encouragement.

Of course, if challenged, Pastor Kong’s supporters will want to voice their defense of him. It is a human thing, and if those younger in faith sound a little harsh, please do exercise some tolerance. This is after all our Pastor’s own blog and not even an open forum. To let such comments go unnoticed would take a far ‘bigger’ person than I.

Even more so this is not a place to hurl insulting comments about Pastor’s own family. If one is really confused about a doctrinal issue or Pastor’s teachings on the Cultural Mandate, surely one can voice those opinions from a place of humility and not being self-assuming? Furthermore, I believe if we have a teachable heart we all can seek God for guidance and wisdom through the Word. In the end, whether you agree or disagree, there is no excuse when one insults the man of God whom God has placed over the church. Remembering that all authority comes from God.

Lastly, to those that feel ‘stumbled’ or do not understand certain things, why not we seek the Lord who can give us all understanding? I try to adopt this when I do not understand something, rather than criticizing quickly I try to pray and avoid a judgmental attitude. God will reveal in His own time and we should patiently seek after Him. I believe He truly will. Be blessed!!!

Thank you Pastor for taking the time to encourage us once again. 
stanley on December 12th, 2009 8:49 am

For those who continue to viciously attack vicious a person or people, or misused this blog to pour out their vengence; DO NOT BE OFFENDED WITH WHAT I POST BELOW, BECAUSE IT IS WRITTENED IN BIBLE :-

Mattew 7:6: “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and tear you in pieces.”

This is a very serious matter. Since Vision is conveyed to the individual directly from God, Our Lord Jesus. The individual must protect it from being abuse, ridicule or spit at. Reveal or share only with people who are involved in the Vision. Do not share with wrong people. Vision from God, Our Lord Jesus is Sacred, DO NOT share with anyone unless the person is Spiritually connected or Right with you, who will doeth the Vision together with you. Sharing Vision with wrong people will be like giving to dogs who will spit at it and trample them and tear your heart in pieces due to disbelief and saying things or carry out action that will hurt you deeply. So Brothers and Sisters, be careful with God, Our Lord Jesus given Vision. You have great Spiritual Responsibilities!!

Although the above message was writtened by myself to talk about the important of Dreams and Vision. It really is relevant to this post and when you pray, you have to visionised things that you want to pray for. That is about FAITH! Work in the 4th Dimension first.
Pastor Kong’s vision in his fast “(3) my wife Sun to excel in her American singing career.”
For those who criticised/judged and post vicious remark, allow me to ask; if you have a Wife (was those attacker without wife), won’t you want to wish own wife to success in her career. Unless YOU DON’T LOVE YOUR OWN WIFE, then you don’t bless her career! Funny isn’t it? If anyone who is not happy with MTV or other issues, post your comment where it is relevant. Here we are talking ABOUT FASTING! Rev Dr John Avanzini already had the word for Pastor Kong and the Church (6/12/2009 service) “Set the pace for End time Asian revival” Thus said Voice of the Lord.
Hear the voice of the Lord, the focus is now in ASIA, don’t let Fame, Power and Money dilute the intent of Cultural Mandate, the twin towers of Babylon has been brought down and now the wealth transfer is being in transition to Singapore, the 2 horns are rising. ACT NOW!

Almost all the Titles I had chosen for the articles had been inspired by our H.S. and the title itself will speaks to you!
Why is there these critical negative comments, debate and differences in comments? It is because :-
One man’s Vision is another man’s illusion published on 19/3/2008
Click to Read http://www.esharingportal.com/viewstory.php?sid=20&chapter=2

REMEMBER THIS !
Ephesians 6:12 ” For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
Why personal attack? If you really understand this bible message, you would not had done it!
IMMATURE CHRISTIAN
Tends to attack people personally, not forgiving, vicious and unconstructive critism.
MATURED CHRISTIAN
Understand Ephesians 6:12
Love the person, atttack principalities, against the powers by prayer. Constructive critism to help and love other people.
embarrassed on December 12th, 2009 11:29 pm

To leila on December 12th, 2009 2:04. Thanks for the graciousness shown in your comments. Something that you wrote struck a chord ;

Quote

“…whether you agree or disagree, there is no excuse when one insults the man of God whom God has placed over the church. Remembering that all authority comes from God….Lastly, to those that feel ‘stumbled’ or do not understand certain things, why not we seek the Lord who can give us all understanding? I try to adopt this when I do not understand something, rather than criticizing quickly I try to pray and avoid a judgmental attitude. God will reveal in His own time and we should patiently seek after Him.”

UNQUOTE

Those are wise words indeed. I think Pastor Kong would have done well to adopt that attitude instead of ridiculing the “other” megachurch pastor and his flock…I hope Pastor Kong learns a lesson from this and that CHC congregation be less “abusive” to others who have a similar love for their own pastor.

Thanks also to FearGod on December 12th, 2009 1:06 am for that commentary from Gordon Wong. Good to read reasoned comments from one pastor (Gordon Wong) on another (Joseph Prince) without malice or ridicule.

wishing CHCers, NCCers and everyone reading this a blessed Christmas. May we all learn from the mistakes made and not repeat them. Leila’s point about different pastors with different styles makes sense and hopefully we will not have a situation of pastors ridiculing others as it is embarrassing for the body of Christ as a whole. May we glorify Jesus and let our love for Him be greater than our love for individual pastors.
embarrassed on December 12th, 2009 11:36 pm

To leila on December 12th, 2009 2:04. Thanks for the graciousness shown in your comments. Something that you wrote struck a chord ;

Quote

“…whether you agree or disagree, there is no excuse when one insults the man of God whom God has placed over the church. Remembering that all authority comes from God….Lastly, to those that feel ‘stumbled’ or do not understand certain things, why not we seek the Lord who can give us all understanding? I try to adopt this when I do not understand something, rather than criticizing quickly I try to pray and avoid a judgmental attitude. God will reveal in His own time and we should patiently seek after Him.”

UNQUOTE

Those are wise words indeed. I think Pastor Kong would have done well to adopt that attitude instead of ridiculing the “other” megachurch pastor and his flock…I hope Pastor Kong learns a lesson from this and that CHC congregation be less “abusive” to others who have a similar love for their own pastor.

Thanks also to FearGod on December 12th, 2009 1:06 am for that commentary from Gordon Wong. Good to read reasoned comments from one pastor (Gordon Wong) on another (Joseph Prince) without malice or ridicule.

wishing CHCers, NCCers and everyone reading this a blessed Christmas. May we all learn from the mistakes made and not repeat them. Leila’s point about different pastors with different styles makes sense and hopefully we will not have a situation of pastors ridiculing others, and their flocks getting into a “fist fight” as it is embarrassing for the body of Christ as a whole. May we glorify Jesus and let our love for Him be greater than our love for individual pastors.

Peace to all !
Elihu on December 13th, 2009 2:25 am

Hi leila,

I think the words you said are very wise indeed. This blog personnally encourages me to seek the Lord through fasting. There had been great encounters the last 7 days of my fasting. Pastor really changed lives through his message on how to seek the Lord.

However, there had been so many dispute and disagreement on issues that are not even pertaining to the blog. Somehow, it had stolen that main purpose of what the blog is trying to achieve. There are many readers in this place with the intention wanting to know more about God, yet affected by all these negative comments. They are more of a stumbling block than anything else.

Thanks for sharing these. Let’s put our focus back to loving God again.
terencelee on December 13th, 2009 2:30 am

I am indeed saddened that some individuals use the blog as a means to attack the person and character of Pastor Kong, rather than address the main points of the blog post.

I am for constructive criticism, it is okay for us to discuss and debate, provided that we keep things sane and purposeful. There is nothing wrong with disagreement; it is perfectly natural and normal.

I would advice, however, certain individuals from dismissing other’s criticisms as “judging” and “negative”. It is one thing to judge a person, and quite another to judge a person’s actions and words.
matthew on December 13th, 2009 4:08 pm

interesrting to note the comment from CHC-ers.

that he/she attended NCC, and the sermons are diff from the Bible.

I guess this is what CHC-ers learnt from Pastor Kong, after the 2 attacks, in Sweden and in blog on 10 commandments.

It is good if Pastor Kong will raise Pastor Prince up in one of his messages on a weekend and clear up CHC-er doubts.

I guess after 2 uncorroborated accusatioons, this is the least he can do to make amends for the body of Christ.

God bless.
embarrassed on December 13th, 2009 4:32 pm

Perhaps we all should remember what Paul said about another popular “pastor” in his time :

“I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized [see Baptism] into the name of Paul?” (1 Corinthians 1:10-13 NIV)

“You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men? What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe – as The Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.” (1 Corinthians 3:3-7 NIV)

“Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till The Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.” (1 Corinthians 4:5-6 NIV).

Let’s all heed Paul’s words and follow Jesus. Apologies if I appeared to be taking sides. But I guess I was trying to speak for those I felt were the underdogs. Perhaps if Joseph Prince’s blogs had all this quarreling, I would have commented there too. Blessed Christmas to all !
matthew on December 14th, 2009 8:45 am

Brilliant

Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.” (1 Corinthians 4:5-6 NIV).

and

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till The Lord comes.

Really brilliant.

With time, we shall see if the Cultural Mandate is God inspired, and/ or something similar to Mormon’s or Jehovah witness extra books.

So all those that disagree with Sun should hold their tongues and respectfully wait on God and cease the slandering, even if Pastor Kong wants to build her up on his PERSONAL BLOG – where his given occupation indicated here is Businessman.
matthew on December 14th, 2009 9:59 am

Brilliant – Pastor Kong –

your daily devotion dated 14 Dec was inspiring.

Good to note the TRUE purpose of fasting in there-

It is not really about having a mass huge prayer hall, success in our careers – which dates back to the time of Taoism where housewives burnt incence papers at void decks to get 4 D lucky numbers, promotions etc etc…..

Do it for the Glory of God. And we shall be blessed in ways that surprise us.- even if we are retrenched…. Amen.

Anyway merry Christmas….this is good.

http://www.ignitermedia.com/products/sea/singles/1386/We-Are-Here-Christmas

(do not misunderstand – I am not selling anything here) God bless.
MyNameIsAhuat on December 15th, 2009 7:56 am

Regarding fasting…..

New Testament Acts chapter 13
GOD’S WORD ® Translation

1 Barnabas, Simeon (called the Black), Lucius (from Cyrene), Manaen (a close friend of Herod since childhood), and Saul were prophets and teachers in the church in Antioch.
2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set Barnabas and Saul apart for me. I want them to do the work for which I called them.”
3 After fasting and praying, Simeon, Lucius, and Manaen placed their hands on Barnabas and Saul, and released them from their work in Antioch.
4 After Barnabas and Saul were sent by the Holy Spirit, they went to the city of Seleucia and from there sailed to the island of Cyprus.
5 Arriving in the city of Salamis, they began to spread God’s word in the synagogues. John Mark had gone along to help them.
6 They went through the whole island as far as the city of Paphos. In Paphos they met a Jewish man named Barjesus. He was an astrologer who claimed to be a prophet.
7 He was associated with an intelligent man, Sergius Paulus, who was the governor of the island. The governor sent for Barnabas and Saul because he wanted to hear the word of God.
8 Elymas, whose name means astrologer, opposed them and tried to distort the meaning of the faith so that the governor wouldn’t believe.
9 But Saul, also known as Paul, was filled with the Holy Spirit. He stared at Elymas
10 and said, “You are full of dirty tricks and schemes, you son of the devil! You hate everything that has God’s approval. Quit trying to distort the truth about the way the Lord wants people to live.
11 The Lord is against you now. For a while you will be blind, unable to see the light of day.” Suddenly, Elymas couldn’t see a thing. He tried to find people to lead him.
12 When the governor saw what had happened, he believed. The Lord’s teachings amazed him.
13 Paul and his men took a ship from Paphos and arrived in Perga, a city in Pamphylia. John Mark deserted them there and went back to Jerusalem.
14 Paul and Barnabas left Perga and arrived in Antioch, a city near Pisidia. On the day of worship they went into the synagogue and sat down.
15 After reading from Moses’ Teachings and the Prophets, the synagogue leaders sent a message to Paul and Barnabas. The message said, “Brothers, if you have any words of encouragement for the people, feel free to speak.”
16 Then Paul stood up, motioned with his hand, and said, “Men of Israel and converts to Judaism, listen to me.
17 The God of the people of Israel chose our ancestors and made them a strong nation while they lived as foreigners in Egypt. He used his powerful arm to bring them out of Egypt,
18 and he put up with them for about forty years in the desert.
19 Then he destroyed seven nations in Canaan and gave their land to his people as an inheritance.
20 He did all this in about four hundred and fifty years. “After that he gave his people judges until the time of the prophet Samuel.
21 “Then the people demanded a king, so God gave them Saul, son of Kish, from the tribe of Benjamin. After forty years
22 God removed Saul and made David their king. God spoke favorably about David. He said, ‘I have found that David, son of Jesse, is a man after my own heart. He will do everything I want him to do.’
23 “God had the Savior, Jesus, come to Israel from David’s descendants, as he had promised.
24 Before Jesus began his ministry, John the Baptizer told everyone in Israel about the baptism of repentance.
25 When John was finishing his work, he said, ‘Who do you think I am? I’m not the person you’re looking for. He will come later. I’m not even good enough to untie his sandals.’
26 “Brothers-descendants of Abraham and converts to Judaism-the message that God saves people was sent to us.
27 The people who live in Jerusalem and their rulers didn’t know who Jesus was. They didn’t understand the prophets’ messages, which are read every day of worship. So they condemned Jesus and fulfilled what the prophets had said.
28 Although they couldn’t find any good reason to kill him, they asked Pilate to have him executed.
29 When they had finished doing everything that was written about him, they took him down from the cross and placed him in a tomb.
30 But God brought him back to life,
31 and for many days he appeared to those who had come with him to Jerusalem from Galilee. These people are now witnesses and are testifying to the Jewish people about him.
32 We are telling you the Good News: What God promised our ancestors has happened.
33 God has fulfilled the promise for us, their descendants, by bringing Jesus back to life. This is what Scripture says in the second psalm: ‘You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.’
34 “God stated that he brought Jesus back to life and that Jesus’ body never decayed. He said, ‘I will give you the enduring love promised to David.’
35 Another psalm says, ‘You will not allow your holy one to decay.’
36 After doing God’s will by serving the people of his time, David died. He was laid to rest with his ancestors, but his body decayed.
37 However, the man God brought back to life had a body that didn’t decay.
38 “So, brothers, I’m telling you that through Jesus your sins can be forgiven. Sins kept you from receiving God’s approval through Moses’ Teachings.
39 However, everyone who believes in Jesus receives God’s approval.
40 “Be careful, or what the prophets said may happen to you.
41 ‘Look, you mockers! Be amazed and die! I am going to do something in your days that you would not believe even if it were reported to you!’”
42 As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak on the same subject the next day of worship.
43 When the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas. Paul and Barnabas talked with them and were persuading them to continue trusting God’s good will.
44 On the next day of worship, almost the whole city gathered to hear the Lord’s word.
45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they became very jealous. They used insulting language to contradict whatever Paul said.
46 Paul and Barnabas told them boldly, “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject the word and consider yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, we are now going to turn to people of other nations.
47 The Lord gave us the following order: ‘I have made you a light for the nations so that you would save people all over the world.’”
48 The people who were not Jews were pleased with what they heard and praised the Lord’s word. Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.
49 The word of the Lord spread throughout the whole region.
50 But Jews stirred up devout women of high social standing and the officials of the city. These people started to persecute Paul and Barnabas and threw them out of their territory.
51 In protest against these people, Paul and Barnabas shook the dust off their feet and went to the city of Iconium.
52 Meanwhile, the disciples in Antioch continued to be full of joy and the Holy Spirit
leila on December 15th, 2009 9:07 am

To embarrassed,

Firstly, thank you for agreeing with some of my points. I’m glad that some of us can find common ground for peaceful discussion on this forum.

However I would like to say that in my own experience I have never known Pastor Kong to ridicule anyone, and definitely not any ‘other’ megachurch pastor or his flock.

For the CHC congregation, and for the entire body of Christ for that matter I hope that we are never ‘abusive’ as that is not an indication of God’s spirit in us.

Once again let us seek God for the wisdom!

Be blessed!
matthew on December 15th, 2009 12:00 pm

Hi Leila,

yes, it too came as a shock to me to hear the sermon in Sweden. We should continue to raise each other up in Christ honour.

And I hope the CHC-er who claims the following is a minority in your church.

CHC-ers on December 11th, 2009 10:15 am

i personally attended NCC before.
i read the bible myself in my daily devotion.
comparing the word of God with Joseph Prince word.
Sorry to say its a 2 diff thing.
even the spiritually YOUNGER generation of mine, knows the diff.

She should be censured for this.

Glory to God and His annointed ones.
Babyline on December 15th, 2009 3:18 pm

Hi sad…,

I understand how you feel… As I am reading down all e comments I feel different things seeing all e comments posted here. As much as we don’t want nasty comments listed in e blog, Pst values freedom of speech n opinions, furthurmore I feel it allows me to reevaluate certain issues n strenthens my own faith n beliefs.

I agree that sometimes it would be nice if Pst himself would address some of e comments personally so as to clear any doubts so that also we know that he follows up on his entries, but I also understand it may be hard considering e fact that he has so many entries to reply to, and that many have tried their best to give an explanation of Pst’s actions/ intentions but to no avail.

To all others, I may or may not understand where you are coming from. But one thing for sure, if some stranger(s) tries to hurt my family n loved ones, I will not stand by watching and letting it happen, I will do my utmost best to protect them from getting hurt. I’m sure we all do e same thing for our family and loved ones, it’s human nature to defend our herd. If a sheep is being attacked by a wolf, e shepherd will summon all of his strength to save e sheep.

All of you are entitled to your own opinion yes, but lay off e accussing and lecturing please. If any of you has questions regarding Pst Kong’s actions/ thinking/ theology, you can email him personally. I know he will try his best and quickest possible effort to reply all emails. And if you are still not satisfied with e reply, well that’s too bad. In life we cant get what we want all e time, same goes for Pst’s wishes, but we are allowed to hope for e best don’t we?

With regards to fasting. I have fasted. I have not fasted when everyone is fasting. I have felt pressured to fast seeing everyone is fasting. I have felt guilty when I don’t. I have been ‘forced’ by my leader to study 20hours a week. I have lied about doing things when I didn’t. I have helpped someone and told everyone about it. I have helpped someone and didn’t tell anyone. I have sinned. I have wrongly accused people. I have apologised to some. I did not apologise to some. There are people whom I just cant stand and wish they don’t exist. But all in all, you are not e judge of me. God is my witness and my conscience convicts me. You may try to counsel me, it may work or it may not.

Hope you understand what I am trying to say. I am someone who just wishes to share my opinion. You may agree with or dislike what i write. But I can tell you that I will get upset if e response to my input is negative or comes off as rude or mean. You can never totally understand my point and neither can I totally understand your intentions.

I just wish all of you live happy, and have no regrets in life. Take care~!
TKH_original on December 15th, 2009 4:43 pm

Dear All,

Sorry that I am out of action for the past 1 week plus due to my work. I am pleasantly surprise that we have to log in in order to post our comments.

Unfortunately for me, my usual nickname TKH has been taken by someone already … (for whatever intention, I am unsure.) But I guess it will be fine as one can notice th writing style of each individual.

So I have registered a new nickname TKH_original …

Anyway, stay in touch …

God bless …

TKH
IvanJonathan on December 15th, 2009 5:54 pm

I personally have been encouraged by this post. A lot!

and am starting to seek God and fast because of this blog. =)

thank you pastor!
lawtee on December 16th, 2009 2:19 am

Dear all,

I think there are two camps here. One for Pst Kong, the other for ……

After reading through the blog for the last 1 1/2 hour, it feels kind of irritating and sad.

1st what is the intention of the blog?
-To teach us as our senior pastor about fasting

2nd why bring in Pastor Jo Prince?
-He is also a man of God. I respect him for it. When I was young he used to play with me (Back then he was a lecturer teaching computing – GO CHECK)

3rd why bring in SUN.
-She is just someone who dares to live out her dream.

Pls stop here. CHC supporters, it is better for us to keep quiet and don’t be bothered about bad post.

TAKE NOTE, if WE don’t speak up doesn’t mean we agree with you guys.

When I WAS young, pastor kong preached about the two bears. Let the two bears do their work. The more you reply the more irritated they get and worst still they reply back. It is a never ending chain of comments. Someone commented, what if a non-christian read this blog. Is it edifying??

I came to CHC for 15 years already. We are a bunch of people who lived through testing. Only time will proof whether what SUN did is right or wrong. Why bother to argue with other people? Waste of time and space on this page. Instead of arguing with them take the space to thank pastor for all the effort. I believe it is more profitable.

Thank you pastor for always being in the fore front and fight this battle. You are always the best pastor a member can have. Sometimes we just lived in a broken down world. :( .
matthew on December 16th, 2009 10:08 am

Lawtee –

I agree to disagree with you amicably.

There two camps here you said – fill in the blanks…..

Quote
One for Pst Kong, the other for ……
Unquote

a) one for Pastor Kong, the other for Pastor Prince

b) one for Pastor Kong, the other for Word of God / Bible (vs Cultural Mandate which is a personal vision of Kong like Mormons and Jehovah witness which needs passage of time to be proven true of otherwise – agree with you on that…..)

c) one for Pastor Kong, the other for Justice and truth (ie you do not slander a Christian brother twice in public (in Sweden where Pastor Kong got carried away and made unnecessary extrapolations on adultery etc as pointed by embarrass above – and truncated quote in Blog on 10 commandments)

Categorically, I do not belong to group a) cos I have not met Prince before.

So life is not so simple after all.

Yes, God bless Kong, Prince and all of Christ’s workers.

Yes, we live in a broken down world and all of us are imperfect with our weaknesses of pride and intellectual snobbery, Me included :) Sometimes it is hard to come out and say sorry publicly.

I apologise if I offended anyone.
lawtee on December 16th, 2009 12:51 pm

Remains silent. :)
TKH_original on December 16th, 2009 4:10 pm

Dear Matthew,

I also agree to disagree with you amicably.

I don’t think there is a need to divide into camp. I love Ps Kong, but will not support him for the sake of supporting him. If Ps Kong will to preach “heresies”, I would also disagree with him.

You said “(ie you do not slander a Christian brother twice in public …”)

I have to disagree with you on that.

Definition of “slander”:
1.Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person’s reputation.
2.A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

Ps Kong has never mentioned any names in his preaching, whether locally or overseas. He can’t be accused of the slandering a Christian brother. Ps Joseph Prince was never mentioned by name in his blog or preaching. Also you can’t conclusively prove that certain statements are made only by Ps Prince and nobody else in the world has spoken the same phrase.

So I think it is inappropriate for you to use such a term …

God bless.

TKH
embarrassed on December 16th, 2009 6:27 pm

to leila on December 15th, 2009 9:07 am

Good to know that you have never heard your Pastor ridiculing anyone. But I heard this on youtube :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViLMljoba8A

I listened to parts 2 and parts 3 as well. He referred to a megachurch pastor in Singapore and commented abt adultery, the members of that church cheating CHC members and not repenting etc and called them “ridiculous”.

I did not mean to reply to you as I thought people would read abt Paul and Apollos and just put Christ first. But having read what lawtee and TKH stated, I feel it only right that either Pst Kong Hee states clearly that the pastor in question was not Prince or better still, name the pastor and church , to help the body of Christ not fall into such evil teaching….

Otherwise , one has to assume that Pst Kong was merely ridiculing an “unnamed Pastor” and church to divide the body of Christ.

To TKH , does it mean it’s ok for you if Kong Hee does not name the pastor? He said it was a megachurch in Singapore and it’s obvious that many think it is Prince and NCC. It’s the internet, like someone mentioned and CHC / Kong Hee cannot “pretend” it did not happen.Everyone can listen to the youtube broadcasts. Kong Hee also said he had tapes to prove that the megachurch pastor teaches the wrong values…In which case, he should expose that awful pastor for the sake of fellow Christians. And it is not helping matters if CHC people continue to insinuate that NCC is not teaching the right gospel as mentioned by matthew. So CHCers , pls continue to love your Pastor, but be like Leila . Don’t continue the offence started by your Pastor in Sweden. Leave it to Kong Hee to reply instead of making matters worse by putting down others who do not put your Pastor on a pedestal. Just as you want to defend him, so do NCCers want to defend Prince.

For the record, I am not an NCC member; just a believer who thinks that Christians should be better than this…and it is so easy for Kong Hee to just clarify what he said in Sweden so all the fighting and quarreling stops…just like Paul and Apollos did in days of old….

be blessed
Amy on December 16th, 2009 9:39 pm

embarrassed
I guess those who support Kong would not go out of their way to listen to something which is negative for Kong. They would even avoid coming into contact with these evidences, so as to remain blissfully ignorant, all in the name of supporting their senior pastor.
embarrassed on December 16th, 2009 11:52 pm

To Amy,

I have no problem if CHCers support Kong as he is their pastor.

But I have a problem when they demean others while supporting him. Kong Hee chooses to keep silent while some in his flock continue the offence he started in Sweden when he said the other pastor condoned visits to prostitutes (Kong Hee actually mentioned prostitutes and not adultery – my mistake) and encouraged more sinning to get more grace.

Part 2 of the videos here contains what Kong Hee said in Sweden

http://alvinology.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/pastor-kong-hee-on-cheap-grace-preachers/

I hope CHCers refrain from blaming others of being judgemental and personally attacking their pastor. Unless you accord other pastors/believers the same respect , why should you expect more from others? And it does not matter whether Kong Hee mentioned names. It does not make it any more acceptable to mock / misquote another’s teaching without naming them. If there was no misquote and Kong Hee stands by his words uttered in Sweden , name the church so that others may not fall prey to wrong teaching.

Otherwise , be nice, like leila who posted earlier. Let’s not embarrass our Lord, especially during this period when we are reminded about peace and goodwill to all men…

May our Lord be praised , not Kong Hee or Prince….
TKH_original on December 17th, 2009 2:22 am

To ■embarrassed on December 16th, 2009 6:27 pm

You said “Otherwise , one has to assume that Pst Kong was merely ridiculing an “unnamed Pastor” and church to divide the body of Christ.”

I have to disagree with you point. If Pastor Kong did hear certain sermons on tape, it should be his responsibility to warn the congregation under his care about such possible dangers. I think he is being gracious not to mention names publicly as to protect rather than divide the body of Christ. Just like in the book of Jude, Jude warns us:

Jud 1:4 “For certain men crept in secretly, those having been of old previously written into this condemnation, ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God for unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Jude didn’t mention names of those he knew who have crept into the church. Just like Jesus who did not publicly announce that Judas will be the betrayer, because there is always a possibility for people to change and walk on the right path again.

You said “To TKH , does it mean it’s ok for you if Kong Hee does not name the pastor? He said it was a megachurch in Singapore and it’s obvious that many think it is Prince and NCC. It’s the internet, like someone mentioned and CHC / Kong Hee cannot “pretend” it did not happen.Everyone can listen to the youtube broadcasts.”

I listened to part I and II and didn’t hear any mention of megachurch. Maybe I missed it out … but even if Ps Kong mentioned megachurch (by definition, more than 2000 members), you will be surprised to see how many megachurches are there in Singapore. Why will you so definitely link to NCC? Honestly from sermon links, I can’t draw any “obvious” evidences, unless one know NCC or Ps Prince personally … (which I am not too aware of until someone brought out this matter in this blog.)

Honestly I don’t think I am putting my Pastor on the pedestal, but I really find the aggressive comments unfair to my Pastor …

Also, it might be good for you to trace and see who started this debate … I don’t think is anyone from CHC … just like we won’t go to other church website to accuse or criticize other pastors …

God bless…

TKH
TKH_original on December 17th, 2009 2:35 am

To ■Amy on December 16th, 2009 9:39 pm

You said “I guess those who support Kong would not go out of their way to listen to something which is negative for Kong. They would even avoid coming into contact with these evidences, so as to remain blissfully ignorant, all in the name of supporting their senior pastor.”

I think you guess wrongly, I did listen to the link, and really I felt all of us as Christians should be “warn of the lawlessness that will abound in the last days …” Mt 24:12. However, having said that, I am not saying that NCC or any church for that matter is guilty of preaching cheap grace.

I personally can’t draw conclusive evidences that Ps Kong is refering to NCC. Moreover the link http://alvinology.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/pastor-kong-hee-on-cheap-grace-preachers/ was a blog of a self-proclaim atheist. I have reservation of his motives already, why do I want to fall into the trick of causing division in the body of Christ?

Honestly, (if I am not mistaken) I would have been reading only about fasting or suffering or the rest of the titles, which are unrelated to any other church, if not for someone who post this irrelevant comment about Ps Kong attacking NCC …

I don’t think I am trying to get into any argument here, but if someone unjustly criticize someone you respect, you just have to speak up.

Anyway, I am for the unity of the body of Christ. because we do serve one Lord only ….

God bless you all …

TKH
matthew on December 17th, 2009 9:20 am

Hi to the Original TKH

How do you explain this slander No.2 – posted on the blog of Kong and ’selectively lifted’ from Pastor Prince.

Quote from above:

I am not from either mega churches but Pastor Kong appears really juvenile – Why?

Please note in the previous blog, Pastor Kong in his blog on 10 commandments- was guilty of quoting and lifted phrases that are lifted out of context to frame the poor Pastor Prince.

“In a recent May 11, 2009 blog entry, a prominent megachurch pastor says, “When you come under the law by trying to keep God’s commandments in order to be blessed, it will lead to death. There will be deadness in your marriage, ministry, health, career.”

deliberate truncated.

Full message

“When you come under the law by trying to keep God’s commandments in order to be blessed, it will lead to death. There will be deadness in your marriage, ministry, health, career.”
“But when you depend on the Spirit of grace, it will lead to life. You will see breakthroughs and miracles (Galatians 3:5), and manifest the fruit of the Spirit.”

See Pastor Kong mischieve? I obtained this from Stanley Tan’s comment near the end of the comment section.

Again, if you have an axe to grind of another Christian brother, I do wonder – Fast / don;t fast?

Unquote.

Ok , this is not slander, but it sure is not justice given to Pastor Prince original message!

Amy and Embarrassed, let us give TKH the benefit of the doubt that he is a true follower of Pastor Kong. Not of the Spirit of the Bible. TKH has not appeared apologetic for the errors of Pastor Kong and we should not ascribe TKH actions to Kong Hee – Actually we do not attend their church so we cannot comment on Kong Hee, but we sure know Kong Hee knows how to siam……(avoid)

I expect with the original TKH – things will get worse from here onwards and probably reach 1000 posts.

Either Kong comes out and say he is not commenting about Prince in Sweden, or we can all safely agree that he is.
Or for Prince himself to say he had a good chat with Kong Hee and is satisfied the comments on Prostitute is not ascribed to Prince sermon, but a figment of Kong’s (cheeky) imagination .

The damage is already done and Pastor Kong cannot crawl back already. Look at CHC-er comments on December 11th, 2009 10:15 am

That kind of seed must be planted by Kong in his church – which is a sad thing for the Christian family. No one has said this kind of comments in CHC is in the minority.

The comments:
i personally attended NCC before.
i read the bible myself in my daily devotion.
comparing the word of God with Joseph Prince word.
Sorry to say its a 2 diff thing.
even the spiritually YOUNGER generation of mine, knows the diff.
matthew on December 17th, 2009 9:33 am

Why is TKH quoting this?

Jud 1:4 “For certain men crept in secretly, those having been of old previously written into this condemnation, ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God for unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.”

to prepare us for this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ya3Hqu_-cg

TKH – you really really knows how to restart a spark that sets the fire glowing…..

take a note from lawtee.
matthew on December 17th, 2009 9:45 am

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=KlSXtJSez-g&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DKlSXtJSez-g%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded

Read all the comments and make your own judgement.

This was not posted by an atheist……sad that this shame went to the other side of the world.
matthew on December 17th, 2009 10:59 am

Actually this thing heppened so many months ago.

I am not from NCC or CHC, so why am I so bothered?

I came across this blog only because I was introduced to the Role Model of the unchurched through Unwholesome shallowness.

It does not matter to me if Kong makes a statement or not, and we could just let this matter pass over like it did months ago.

Lawtee, you are right. I am guilty as charged – for rising to TKH bait :)
Amy on December 17th, 2009 1:25 pm

to TKH_original on December 17th, 2009 2:22 am

To ■embarrassed on December 16th, 2009 6:27 pm

You said “Otherwise , one has to assume that Pst Kong was merely ridiculing an “unnamed Pastor” and church to divide the body of Christ.”

I have to disagree with you point. If Pastor Kong did hear certain sermons on tape, it should be his responsibility to warn the congregation under his care about such possible dangers. I think he is being gracious not to mention names publicly as to protect rather than divide the body of Christ. Just like in the book of Jude, Jude warns us:

Jud 1:4 “For certain men crept in secretly, those having been of old previously written into this condemnation, ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God for unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.” TKH_original on December 17th, 2009 2:35 am

strange that this message of cheap grace was preached in Sweden, and not at CHC Singapore, when CHC Singapore is his own congregation, rather than Sweden where he is just an invited speaker.
MyNameIsAhuat on December 17th, 2009 3:15 pm

OK guys, enough of bitterness. Let me declare this:

Pastor Joseph Prince is beautiful.
Pastor Kong Hee is beautiful.
We are ALL beautiful.

Sometimes ALL of us become one percent cranky.

No problem, we plead the Blood of Jesus, let us all forgive and forget and not look back. Lets move on and do God’s assignments.

Let the joy of the Lord be our strength!
And let us all focus on Jesus.

Hallelujah!

Do I hear any ……AMEN?

Happy Blessed Merry Christmas!
starfish on December 17th, 2009 3:24 pm

amen & amen….
TKH_original on December 17th, 2009 4:50 pm

HI Matthew,

Since you claimed that I am starting a fire, then I should refrain from starting one … I felt it is unnecessary to further on in this matter …

As far as I am concerned, I think the damage is only done to those who keep repeating the same matter in the different title of Ps Kong’s blog. I honestly don’t think Ps Prince or any particular pastors are troubled by that …

God bless …

TKH
matthew on December 17th, 2009 7:21 pm

To the original TKH –

thank you for acknowledging that the fact on slander no.2 cannot be easily dismissed.

I think we learn, we mature, we grow.

Lift each other up.

do not misquote others ‘cheekily’ to further our own agenda. We all are preaching about the same God.

Amen to Ah Huat.
TKH_original on December 17th, 2009 7:34 pm

Dear Matthew,

My silence is simply not to start the fire, as requested by you … I don’t acknowledge anything … hope you get the fact right …

Peace out …

God bless …

TKH
TKH_authentic on December 18th, 2009 12:41 am

I have been out of action for a while and have now registered my username as TKH_authentic. Thanks.
TKH_real on December 18th, 2009 12:46 am

I am the real TKH!!!!!!!!
TKH_genuine on December 18th, 2009 12:50 am

I don’t have split personality. I am the genuine TKH. I understand Greek!!
embarrassed on December 18th, 2009 12:58 am

To Amy ,

I keep telling myself not to write anymore and maintain peace and goodwill , but I have to respond after reading TKH’s comments.

Great observation you made that Pst KH should put down another church and pastor to a foreign audience if his intent was to warn his own congregation as claimed by TKH.

To TKH : you wrote :

quote

” I think he is being gracious not to mention names publicly as to protect rather than divide the body of Christ. Just like in the book of Jude, Jude warns us:

Jud 1:4 “For certain men crept in secretly, those having been of old previously written into this condemnation, ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God for unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.”

unquote

So KH was being gracious putting down a pastor and his entire congregation in Sweden without naming them? If KH has proof (which he says he has) that there is such a pastor who is “ungodly and perverting the grace of our God for unbridled lust… and denying Jesus”, he should name him or report him to the Council of churches for false teaching or confront that pastor for the sake of Christ and His beloved church.

Whatever it is, it is inexcusable to accuse any pastor of false teaching and claim he has evidence without providing that evidence. It is even more inexcusable to allow the impression that it is NCC/Prince to continue for such a long time. KH should state categorically that it is not NCC/Prince for the sake of unity of Christ’s body, if indeed his accusations were not aimed at NCC/Prince.

Seriously TKH, the more you write, the worse it gets. I strongly suggest you think before you write anymore. It does your Pastor and CHC no good, and it slanders the other church and pastor even more, whoever they may be…especially your accusation about “ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God for unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.” Who are you to judge another pastor , when you are complaining about people judging your beloved Pastor ?

truly embarrassed….
TKH_authentic on December 18th, 2009 1:02 am

Guess what, the Pastor/Mentor of the Swedish church is no longer in the schedule of CHC.. not for Asia Conference, neither for any part of 2009, or 2010!!! Looks like Laoda is not acknowledging his mentors anymore.
pastorsparrots on December 18th, 2009 1:26 am

It is an open secret that Pastor Kong is referring to Joseph Prince when he criticises the grace teaching on the pulpit. If you have been in church long enough, you would know this. Word gets spread around the congregation, and it is more than a rumour, it is true.

In fact, Pastor Kong has repeatedly criticised JP not just in Sweden, but in his own church as well, using the Bible to justify his criticisms.

So, if Pastor Kong can use his authority to blast somebody else, I don’t see why others cannot criticise him. That is really an application of double standard.
embarrassed on December 18th, 2009 1:35 am

and TKH, pls don’t say that you are not referring to Prince / NCC. That impression has been formed , rightly or wrongly. The onus is for KH to state that he was not referring to Prince/NCC in his Sweden speech. Even the Christian post has carried the different emphases of Kong Hee and Prince here

http://sg.christianpost.com/dbase/education/682/14|23/1.htm

so the assumption that KH was referring to Prince is not unfounded. You have now accused the other pastor (even unnamed) as “ungodly, perverting the grace of God….etc” which sounds a lot worse than KH’s use of the word “cheap grace” pastors. I personally find it offensive that if I appreciate God’s grace in giving His son for me and that there is nothing I can ever do to merit that grace; that I am considered a “cheap grace” believer. There was nothing cheap in Jesus hanging on the cross for me….it was painful and costly for Him….That does not mean that I will sin more. It means that I must refrain from sin after such a high price has been paid for my sins….

I will spare myself further embarrassment and will stop reading this blog. May CHC and its Pastor be blessed. May the church seek God’s mandate and will for the entire body of Christ. May it seek to imitate Christ who was a humble carpenter, who was not fashionable nor successful in the world’s view , but who was exalted to God’s right hand because of His obedience, holiness, humility and love for His creation….

have a blessed Christmas
TKH_original on December 18th, 2009 4:00 am

Dear All,

I shall not respond any further to the above issue as suggested not to start the fire.

Those who repeated bring up the matter, the readers shall be the judge of your intention, as to who really want to protect the unity of the body of Christ and who is seeking to divide it.

As for the rest of my “pretenders”, good try … but I’m afraid your intention will be further exposed as someone with a hidden agenda to assume multiple identities in order to achieve your motive of causing division in the body of Christ … [it is quite interesting to see new nickname coming up with the same tone of speech ... : ) ]

So please consider your words my dear friends, else you might really be embarrassed when we all stand before our Lord one day …

Peace out …

God bless and have a merry Christmas! : )

TKH
matthew on December 18th, 2009 8:14 am

TKH -

Well said

“As for the rest of my “pretenders”, good try … but I’m afraid your intention will be further exposed as someone with a hidden agenda to assume multiple identities in order to achieve your motive of causing division in the body of Christ …”

Do ensure that Pastor watches what he says in other coutries next time too so as NOT to cause division as Head of a church. I guess that is why he was ‘uninvited’ from Sweden now.

Also, do ask him to be original instead of ’stalking’ Pastor Prince blog and ‘lifting’ from his writing to push his own agenda.

That is the last thing I expect from your Pastor.

Having said that, i want to acknowledge that other than these minor points, I have complete respect for Pastor Kong and his efforts as God’s worker, bringing teenagers to the fold of Christ.

Praise the Lord.
matthew on December 18th, 2009 8:22 am

Jud 1:4 “For certain men crept in secretly, those having been of old previously written into this condemnation, ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God for unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Embarrassed – I think you are misguided – that is not Pastor Prince.

TKH was probably referring to the World Domination of the (Pastor) Sun. There is God and there is Lust, Sex, and Skin, as embodied in Chinawine. (but do not take Seriously, just entertainment only, not the real her)
Why dominate by Sun and not Jesus?????!!

Ahhhh….maybe just a ‘cheeky’ comment to push record sales for the Businessman. For fun only – not to be taken seriously. The dressing, dance moves are all very sexy, but for entertainment only, just acting, don;’t take seriously. It is not a reflection of the real Sun.

So you are right, do not read this blog anymore. It is not meant to be serious.

Seriously, the Role Model and the unchurched throughout Asia??
matthew on December 18th, 2009 8:31 am

TKH quote:

So please consider your words my dear friends, else you might really be embarrassed when we all stand before our Lord one day …

unquote

Well said. Actually no need to wait for the Lord – just look at the blogs of Kong on 10 commandments… among the peers of Christians, his selective reading / lifing of Pastor Prince blog in 11 May is already embarrassing.

An uplifting message on grace, disgracefully chopped off midway…….what a shame.
matthew on December 18th, 2009 8:32 am

TKH – original.

Now you know why you need to stay quiet?
matthew on December 18th, 2009 8:35 am

Merry Christmas and May Truth and justice Prevail.

And have a meaniingful christmas with your loved ones, one and all..

Stay true and may God Keep you well.
pastorsparrots on December 18th, 2009 11:47 am

It is unfortunate that TKH has chosen to stay silent over such a pertinent issue — the apparent double standard of the church whereby the pastor can criticise anyone he wants on the pulpit to millions of people but its members are induced to stay silent.

It is even more unfortunate that TKH is implying that those who “judge” will face the Lord’s judgment at the end of the day. Instead of addressing the issue, it seems that the church is content with sidestepping it and staying silent.

People can see and they can discern for themselves. Ignore the voice of the church members, many of whom are in this forum right now, at your own peril. They might just vote with their feet.

Perhaps those who will stay in church at the end of the day are the Parrots — who know nothing but repeat what Our Dear Leader says.

Merry Christmas, everyone!
Amy on December 18th, 2009 1:30 pm

to: matthew on December 18th, 2009 8:22 am

Jud 1:4 “For certain men crept in secretly, those having been of old previously written into this condemnation, ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God for unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Embarrassed – I think you are misguided – that is not Pastor Prince.

TKH was probably referring to the World Domination of the (Pastor) Sun. There is God and there is Lust, Sex, and Skin, as embodied in Chinawine. (but do not take Seriously, just entertainment only, not the real her)
Why dominate by Sun and not Jesus?????!!

Ahhhh….maybe just a ‘cheeky’ comment to push record sales for the Businessman. For fun only – not to be taken seriously. The dressing, dance moves are all very sexy, but for entertainment only, just acting, don;’t take seriously. It is not a reflection of the real Sun.

So you are right, do not read this blog anymore. It is not meant to be serious.

Seriously, the Role Model and the unchurched throughout Asia??

Actually, put yourself into Kong’s shoes as a multitasking businessman, this “good news” of grace is costless to him. There is no patent over the use of the word, nor the message. So why not use that to perform his task of delivering messages from the Word. Afterall, lifting ideas from others saves him a great deal of time; efficiency man!
TKH_original on December 19th, 2009 1:07 am

To Embarrassed, Amy, Ben Jen, pastorsparrot (and any other similar identities – cos I could be speaking to only one person in reality),

To keep my word to Matthew of not starting the fire, I shall refrain from giving you further comments. However, my silence does not imply I agree with you points.

In fact, I would really suggest you check the tone of your speech and the motive of your heart. Jesus said in Mt 12:34, “out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth will speak.” So I am sure that your intention will be clearly seen by all.

My caution to you is from Pro 10: 19 “In the multitude of words, sin is not lacking; but he who holds back his lips is wise.”

As a member of CHC, I am proud of my church, and honestly very proud of what Ps Kong and Sun is doing, because I know the reason why we are doing what we are doing.

Peace out and God bless … : )

TKH
TKH_original on December 19th, 2009 1:09 am

Oops … I missed out Matthew in my above message … sorry … your intention is getting clearer too … : )

God bless …

TKH
leila on December 19th, 2009 1:23 am

To Amy and others,

Firstly, I have listened to the link that you put down and like someone else mentioned, if the source is not trustworthy I think that is one reason not to look into it. However of course you can say what has been said has been said etc.

So, I think in the message it is clear that Pastor is not making a personal attack. Furthermore if you look at the context of the message rather than the one or two lines that you guys are quoting, he is talking about a kind of teaching that he is against. One that goes against his beliefs and what he feels strongly about . Personally, I agree with those beliefs for various reasons and scriptures which we do not need to go into. However the point is that, if he feels strongly about it and wants to share in an occasion where he’s given opportunity, what is wrong with that? He is not personally attacking anyone, by name or otherwise. If you do not agree you don’t have to listen. I’m cautious about listening anyway considering the earlier person’s comment about the source of it.

In addition to this, IF you really feel that Pastor is wrong in his beliefs and you want clarification, you need to ask yourself a few questions.

Firstly, it was so long ago and so far away, IF this is between 2 pastors, which we (who do not know either personally or close enough to clarify I assume) would they not have talked about it already?

Okay assuming it’s not, and we want them to clarify. Are we in the position to demand that? It was not even preached in any of our churches? Unless you are from Sweden. And none of them seem to have complained or taken offence. So no, we are not.

Thirdly, by slandering Pastor Kong, his family, do we honestly think we are A) helping the situation? B) helping Pastor Prince (if you really believe that is whom Pastor Kong is taking about?) C) helping this conflict? Aren’t you fighting with ammunition much much much much worse by doing so? (excuse the bad example) Nobody deserves such treatment and definitely not a man of God. Wouldnt you agree?
MyNameIsAhuat on December 19th, 2009 8:11 am

Dear ■TKH_original and ■leila,

Well said. Jesus is still Lord !

I love Pastor Kong Hee and CHC (Word of Life) and I am a partner of Kenneth Copeland Ministries (Word of Faith) and Benny Hinn Ministries. I have many good friends from New Creation Church aka the ROCK, but none like these few.

These few people, clearly? from the ROCK, but kept claiming they are not, obviously took great offence more than JP would ever have had in the Swedish preaching. From the YouTube we can all hear that Pastor Kong never mentioned any specific names or churches; he was adressing the topic on the possible misuse of Grace issue to an affliate Word of Life church, never intended for ‘CNN’ viewers.

All of a sudden they became self-appointed Judge-Jury-Executioner and went on a personal rampage of mocking Kong Hee & wife with the most vile and derogatory labels and language, outdoing even the most vulgar worldy person I ever came across. Not only on this blog alone but so many other forums and blogs in the intenet. So some of us pull out our ’swords’ to fend off CHC and Kong’s attackers. The are like crazies – Goliath and his mockers – and some from CHC even played David’s brothers to discourage us from battle? Wise? Maybe on hindsight.

Then we were reminded of what the Word said; love your enemies, be patient, long-suffering, and forgiving and pray for them. And we put our ’swords’ away, offered our reasoning and other cheek. We prayed and say Amen together. Shortly the onslaught started again. We took after our Pastor’s meekness in silence and they see it as weakness and mocked again and again.

A wise school teacher once said:
“Stupid – can cure. Stubborn – can cure.
Stupid and Stubborn – No Cure!”
but we can add to it “with God all things are possible. Amen”

NCC teachings resembles nothing like the original Word of Faith Kenneth Copeland Ministries. Just look at their mockers – unteachable with the heart of rock (big stone). They claimed that JP is so graceful but yet don’t follow their pastor’s ‘cool’ example.

Here some of us may be stupid but highly teachable We don’t bang our heads and roll on the floor in tantrums to DEMAND an apology from a Senior Pastor just because we perceived and feel that another Senior Pastor, not from our church had been ‘wronged’. Who do we think we are? GOD on Judgement Day ? Summoning all His servant kings…..explain…explain….why why why? ..apologise! No we don’t, we pray, we ask for forgiveness for our weaknesses and we forgive others’ weakneeses and move on with God.

So we follow the good example that Jesus taught our Snr.Pastor.
Just ignore these mockers, let them wallow and roll in their own mudpit, for fools are un-reasonable, full of hatred and offence and destructions lay in their path.

Be still and stand in awe of our Mighty God. For our mockers, vengenge is not ours but the Lord’s. Repent while you may from your foolish words. While the Grace of God is abundant and abounds, make no mistake about it, be OBEDIENT and do not put the Lord your God to the test, lest you be judged.

Hallelujah
Glory to God
Amen.
embarrassed on December 19th, 2009 9:52 am

Hi to Leila,

I don’t think the recordings of Kong Hee’s speech in Sweden was fabricated. He referred to the “cheap grace” teachings again in May 2009 in his blog.

I guess I am being unneccessarily upset as i am not from NCC. I just took offence at the accusations a Snr Pastor made on another and allowing the impression that it was a specific person and church to continue after so long. I do hope the 2 pastors resolved their differences, in which case a single line of clarification by your Pastor that it wasn’t Prince/NCC would do much good for the entire body of Christ. I also was embarrassed that some CHCers like TKH original and MyNameisAhuat continue to denigrate others , calling another pastor (even if unnamed) “ungodly, perverting the grace of god for unbridled lust” which to me are the “vile and derogatory language” that MyNameisAhuat is referring to.

Anyway, we can argue till the cows come home. I liked the way that Gordon Wong critiqued Prince’s teaching on grace. I liked his reasoned analysis and the absence of accusations of a fellow pastor and his church. I liked his ability to question aspects of another’s teaching without being personal and disrespectful. I hope your Pastor can learn some of that humility and balance; and that your fellow CHCers can learn from that too.

I just felt v uncomfortable with the accusations that KH made abt the other pastor’s “cheap” grace teaching (still dislike that description) that promotes visiting prostitutes and cheating in business. Serious allegations . And the lack of clarification only goes to show he perhaps stands by what he said in Sweden? Which I guess encourages his faithful flock to agree with him , hence the same derogatory words used on others by the likes of TKH original and MyNameisAhHuat. Glad that at least one CHCer is still polite enough to not insult people with differing views.

Anyway , have a blessed Christmas. There are more important things to do than arguing over a blog. God bless !
pastorsparrots on December 19th, 2009 10:36 am

Judging from the comments from Pastor Kong’s defenders, it appears that my thesis is proven right: there are indeed many Pastor’s Parrots in this blog.

I see a very dangerous trend here: Pastor Kong’s Parrots tend to rubbish all criticisms of their Dear Leader as having vile intentions or whatnot. They fail to see that perhaps, these criticisms arise out of genuine concern. Many of these critics are from the lay leadership of the church, in fact.

I myself am a long time member of the church, and it pains me to see that some church members just cannot think for themselves. I symphatise with Embarressed, whoever he or she is, and my message to him or her is that not all City Harvesters think the same way as these Pastor’s Parrots.

To Leila: I think you are missing the point entirely. His sermon in Sweden was not the only time he criticised Pastor Prince. He has been doing it in CHC many years ago. Are you a member of the church? If so, how could you not know that he was referring to Pastor Prince? Maybe you have been living in a bubble.

And Leila, don’t use the word “slander” if you don’t know what it means. Slander means an imputation of facts designed to disparage a person’s reputation. What most of us are doing here (and which you dismiss as ’slander’) is fair comment — we comment on the FACT that Pastor Kong is indeed criticising Pastor Prince.

Get this into your head, Leila: ask around the other CHC members if Pastor Kong is referring to Pastor Prince. Don’t comment if you have no understanding of the situation.

And this brings me to my question: If Kong Hee can openly criticise another pastor, what stops others from criticising him so? Double-standard indeed!
pastorsparrots on December 19th, 2009 10:43 am

and TKH, thanks for using the Bible to prove your moral standing. Didn’t we learn in church that Bible-thumping is a bad way to win the lost? I’m sure unbelievers reading the comments do not see your Bible-thumping in a positive light.
MyNameIsAhuat on December 19th, 2009 10:44 am

For■embarrassed on December 19th, 2009 9:52 am

Good! BUZZ-OFF don’t come back here and stir anymore. By your own coduct and language you have denigrated NCC and it’s Snr.Pastor – a ministry you’re not even part of !
MyNameIsAhuat on December 19th, 2009 10:47 am

For ■pastorsparrots on December 19th, 2009 10:36 am

What makes you then ???
Jesus Christ on December 19th, 2009 12:51 pm

Merry Christmas Pastor Kong and all bloggers here!

I think with the love of Jesus all fires shall be ceased here, and let all of us to be melted by the love of Jesus here!

I sincerely invite all of us to discuss here graciously in this blog. As Christians even if we think that there are somebody who has wronged against us or our pastors (no matter which church you come from), we should think about WWJD~ Even if actually somebody wronged against us/our pastor, we should treat it with a spirit of forgiveness and grace, not a spirit of Satan~

I really double the reliability of the “source” of so called sermons from Pastor Kong in Youtube and other links that quoted by other people here – since nowadays technology is so advanced and it is not difficult to fake a sermons. I think if we are not physically presence in the sermon that we listened Pastor Kong preached that sermon directly, it is not appropriate for us to comment/judge/criticize on that sermon. Let God be the only judge, OK?

Let us, no matter which church we come from, maintain the Unity that the Holy Spirit has given us. In the Book of John before Jesus is Cruxified, there is one thing that Jesus kept repeating and repeating – let His followers remain united in One!! Amen! Let us don’t let Jesus said about all written by us in this blog that destroyed that Unity! Amen!
matthew on December 19th, 2009 1:07 pm

TKH said

As a member of CHC, I am proud of my church, and honestly very proud of what Ps Kong and Sun is doing, because I know the reason why we are doing what we are doing.

Ohmygosh…..

Seems we will see slander No 3 soon from Pastor Kong…..

Can I confirm that no one is denying Kong ’stalks’ Prince blog and slectively delete phrases from there to further his cause?

Quote:

My friend, when you come under the law by trying to keep God’s commandments on order to be blessed, it will lead to death. There will be deadness in your marriage, ministry, health, career… in your life. But when you depend on the Spirit of grace, it will lead to life. You will see breakthroughs and miracles (Galatians 3:5), and manifest the fruit of the Spirit.

Kong’s misquote:
My friend, when you come under the law by trying to keep God’s commandments on order to be blessed, it will lead to death. There will be deadness in your marriage, ministry, health, career… in your life.

I am proud that TKH is proud of his Pastor…..He should be.

Seriously, quote another pastor but get it right…. You owe it to the Body of Christ.
matthew on December 19th, 2009 1:15 pm

MyNameIsAhuat on December 19th, 2009 10:44 am For■embarrassed on December 19th, 2009 9:52 am

Good! BUZZ-OFF don’t come back here and stir anymore

Waaah…Ahhuat is angry dei……

And to confirm that Pastor Kong has been teaching CHC – not his comment here about the Church of NCC:

Quote:
NCC teachings resembles nothing like the original Word of Faith Kenneth Copeland Ministries. Just look at their mockers – unteachable with the heart of rock (big stone).
Unquote….

See –

Aiyoyo….really yah? I thought your church taught you not to ‘judge’ other people…… All the true colours now coming out!

Guess it comes from the same root – “Ridiculuos” as someone altered the message in the so called ‘fake’ sermon in Sweden.

Really, you are not there, how you know it is true? Do not judge….

Better go Church tomorrow ………
matthew on December 19th, 2009 1:20 pm

TKH – original…

seriously – you see nothing wrong with the misquote from your pastor on his blog on 10 commandments, and Prince full Daily devotion of May 2009?

Please correct me and I will go away.
MyNameIsAhuat on December 19th, 2009 1:43 pm

For ■matthew on December 19th, 2009 1:15 pm

Same to you stab-brother. At least I know which church I’m going to; do you know yours??
matthew on December 19th, 2009 3:19 pm

God bless you are Huat –

same question to you…

seriously – you see nothing wrong with the misquote from your pastor on his blog on 10 commandments, and Prince full Daily devotion of May 2009?

Please correct me and I will go away.
matthew on December 19th, 2009 3:23 pm

God bless all of you.

I guess it is tough for one to say they have done something wrong and apologising for it.

I understand the Catholic Pope has gone public on child molestation in Ireland and apologised for it. That is a first step I guess….
Jesus Christ on December 19th, 2009 3:32 pm

To matthew

No one can force other to apologize. Pastor Prince has already clarify his Grace Teaching in his sermons in the last few months – and I think this “debate” has gone.

Surely if Pastor Kong has done something wrong God will reveal it to him and I am sure he will apologize. But it is not right for any person here to criticize others or shame other’s reputation – this is surely a loss-loss situation of both CHC and NCC.

Be blessed and meditate in Jesus……….
matthew on December 19th, 2009 3:39 pm

Jesus Christ –

Amen.

No, not seeking apology from anyone. I am not from NCC, truthfully.

Just amuses me when I came across this blog after reading about unwholesome shallowness and skipping onto the Sweden speech and the 10 commandments.

Amusing, actually the things I read here – how a pastor would try to slam dunk another but putting a negative spin to a message so wonderful in his Daily Devotion……and how some CHC-er (not all) can be so ……. (I can’t find the word…)

I will just see if Ah Huat and TKH – original agrees or disagree with me….then I will go away.
pastorsparrots on December 19th, 2009 3:53 pm

Ah Huat,

to answer your question, I am an individual who respects the work of the church and pastor kong, and yet doesn’t always agree with everything they do. I am unafraid to point out what I think is wrong, in a manner that is constructive. I can think for myself, and I have my own point of view.
TKH_original on December 19th, 2009 6:05 pm

Dear Matthew,

Your intention is getting clearer … first you asked me not to start the fire, and now you are adding oil to it by asking me to respond to your question?

I think your mask is falling apart …

I think you love your pastor too, to go to this extend for such a cover up in your speech …

I think it is unncessary to reply you … I should be true to my words not too fan the fire …

May the Lord unite His Church and those who truly called upon His name to seek peace …

Merry Christmas and God bless …

TKH
TKH_original on December 19th, 2009 6:07 pm

Dear embarrassed,

You said “hence the same derogatory words used on others by the likes of TKH original and MyNameisAhHuat. ”

Please enlighten me on my derogatory words, if you can find any … if it is not from my side, maybe you can check yours? : )

God bless …

TKH
stanley on December 19th, 2009 6:07 pm

Let’s ALL share and say something wonderful that we can agreed on.

HAPPY HAPPY CANDLE LIGHT SERVICE AT EXPO HALL 8 21/12/2008 10AM SERVICE

MERRY CHRISTMAS 25th Dec 2009 at EXPO HALL 8 10am or 12.30 service. Come at least half an hour earlier.

God bless all who loves the words of God and people.
embarrassed on December 19th, 2009 10:59 pm

lol ! just to irritate MyNameisAhHuat who asked me to “buzz off”
(how rude, but why should I be surprised), I am writing again ….

Cos I’d like to see more of his true colours revealed as he did in his recent comment condemning others as “unteachable”, “stupid” and “stubborn” while he prides himself as being in ministry with Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn etc…(I thought we should take pride in following Christ, not “celebrity” preachers).

Thanks pastorsparrots for your assurance that not all 27000 CHCers are parrots. You bring back my faith in fellow Christians to be discerning, or as you rightly put it, be “able to think for themselves”. I’m glad that you as a CHCer noticed the dangerous trend that “Pastor Kong’s Parrots tend to rubbish all criticisms of their Dear Leader as having vile intentions or whatnot. They fail to see that perhaps, these criticisms arise out of genuine concern.”

It must take a lot of courage for you to confirm that Kong Hee was in fact referring to Joseph Prince all this time , and to encourage your fellow CHCers to be less “parrot” like. This revelation also answers my question why KH is not clarifying that he was not referring to Prince / NCC in his Sweden speech.

I am a genuinely concerned Christian with no interest on whether Prince or Kong Hee is right. God gave me enough sense to know that He saved me through unmerited grace , and that I should strive to be holy as He is holy, not out of legalism , but out my desire to imitate Christ. And I have a long way to go in that, given that I’m weak enough to still write this comment…but my conscience is clear as I am not stirring trouble for your Pastor as Ah Huat claims , but trying to suggest that we adopt Paul’s instruction to his followers not to quarrel with followers of Apollos , but for all to follow Christ alone.

In any case pls read this link posted by Feargod on 12 Dec :

http://www.blogpastor.net/tag/joseph-prince/

It shows that while one may disagree with another’s teaching , one can offer a different opinion respectfully and courteously. And the person writing this opinion is Rev Dr Gordon Wong who has a PhD from Cambridge. If one so well versed in scripture can disagree respectfully, I don’t see why CHCers and their Pastor can’t do that, ie disagree in a civil manner, instead of condemning another pastor and his congregation (with words which I shall not repeat cos Ah Huat will get upset and accuse me of “stirring”).

TKH – your query on what words you used were derogatory. Your recent post where you wrote:

QUOTE
I think he is being gracious not to mention names publicly as to protect rather than divide the body of Christ. Just like in the book of Jude, Jude warns us:

Jud 1:4 “For certain men crept in secretly, those having been of old previously written into this condemnation, ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God for unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.”

UNQUOTE

You are in effect saying that Kong Hee was “graciously” exposing an “ungodly” pastor who was “perverting the grace of God for unbridled lust”, by not not naming him (words no better than Kong Hee’s original condemnations). I would suggest Kong Hee take a lesson on “graciousness” from Gordon Wong’s comments. And pastorsparrots’ comments about your inappropriate bible thumping are spot on.

In any case, I have learnt a lot abt CHC and Kong Hee thru the various comments in this blog. I may truly buzz off now, not because of Ah Huat’s rudeness, but becos I think there is no point reading this blog in future. Pastorsparrots comments has answered my questions and I understand now why KH has not bothered to quell any “misunderstanding” of his preaching in Sweden cos there was none.

As to the few suggestions from some that the Sweden recordings were fake, it sort of reminds me of Neo Nazis who say that the massacre of 6 million Jews were a hoax…

My sincere wishes to CHC and its Pastor to truly seek God’s (not man’s) mandate. May God be glorified in CHC and its ministries….May its leaders be God’s servants (and not servant kings as stated by Ah Huat) and may CHC be a blessing to others while they are blessed by God . Ditto for NCC and its leaders. And to any NCC readers here, be happy that your Pastor has been gracious in not doing a “tit for tat”. I respect him for that and I would urge his followers to be like Paul’s by not quarreling with those of Apollo’s; but glorifying Christ instead…

Peace be with all you megachurch members. You have a greater responsibility given the resources and flock that God has given to your care. Glorify only Him !!
MyNameIsAhuat on December 19th, 2009 11:34 pm

For ■matthew on December 19th, 2009 3:19 pm

You are not GOD and nobody appointed you to judge leaders of churches base on YouTube clips. I don’t think anyone here in CHC appreciate your wild unfounded concerns. Go back to your own church and help out your pastor and MYOB.
MyNameIsAhuat on December 19th, 2009 11:45 pm

For ■embarrassed on December 19th, 2009 10:59 pm

Obviously you are mincing everthing you read. I did not specifically called you stupid and unteacheable; you did (or maybe the Holy Sprit made you prophesy out of your own mouth so).
MyNameIsAhuat on December 20th, 2009 12:00 am

For■pastorsparrots on December 19th, 2009 3:53 pm

Quote:
Ah Huat,to answer your question, I am an individual who respects the work of the church and pastor kong, and yet doesn’t always agree with everything they do. I am unafraid to point out what I think is wrong, in a manner that is constructive. I can think for myself, and I have my own point of view.
Unquote:

I don’t find you respectful at all, to insinuate that more than 27000 are parrots in CHC. And I am unafraid to point out that you are an ass that is unconstructive to people here.
embarrassed on December 20th, 2009 1:15 am

Cool down Ah Huat..no need to get upset. Go read your own comments pls… Look to God, not to Kong Hee, and u won’t get all riled up so quickly.

Pastorsparrots did not say 27000 are parrots. He wrote :

“I symphatise with Embarressed, whoever he or she is, and my message to him or her is that not all City Harvesters think the same way as these Pastor’s Parrots.”

not all = not 27000 ; only the few who get riled up when anyone makes even a slight critique of their beloved Pastor. And Ah Huat, in addition to words like “ass”, “stupid”, “stubborn” , “unteachable” on others, you also wrote here:

MyNameIsAhHuat on December 4th, 2009 11:57 pm

“Pastor Kong YOU are so cool! You preached by revelation and certainly full of annointing by the Holy Spirit. You are the Man-of-God of this generation. The steps of a righteous man is ordered by the Lord. The world looks at Qualifications but God looks for obedience and servanthood. Hallelujah..blessed are you, Amen.

Oh I forgot, goats are not capable of peace and are only capable of Re-BUTT-tals beaa-eh-eh-eh-hek, beaa-eh-eh-eh-hek, beaa-eh-eh-eh-hek. It doesn’t have revelation. It eats garbage and shits everywhere it goes. Its body odour stinks and wherever it threads people avoid it. It has got no followers but treats almost all the others like competitors for the garbage it heaps up. Yuks.”

You hold your pastor on such a pedestal that any criticism of him gets you so worked up. And your description of others with words like “garbage” “shit” “body odour” etc reveal more about yourself than others. Chill man ! We are all humans and we all make mistakes, pastors as well. So don’t take it so hard when i suggest your pastor learns graciousness from Rev Gordon Wong’s critique on Prince. And did you read it? He disagreed with some of Prince’s teaching , but he did it in love and without offence.

You condemned matthew for judging leaders of churches based on youtube clips. Just a reminder that KH was judging JP based on the latter’s tapes and selectively truncated blog post…and you find nothing wrong with that. As pastorsparrots says, double standards being applied here. Meanwhile you wrote on December 19th, 2009 8:11 am :

QUOTE

NCC teachings resembles nothing like the original Word of Faith Kenneth Copeland Ministries. Just look at their mockers – unteachable with the heart of rock (big stone). They claimed that JP is so graceful but yet don’t follow their pastor’s ‘cool’ example”
UNQUOTE

Weren’t you judging too ? Pls reflect on what you’ve been writing…its these kind of writing by a no. of CHCers that started my comments in the first place. You criticise others for being upset that their pastor was criticised; yet you are calling others names when they suggest that your Pastor is not infallible.

This will be my last comment cos I’ve said what I needed to say and I understand the situation abt CHC/KH and NCC/JP clearer, thanks to pastorsparrots’ honesty. May God be glorified in two of the largest churches in SG. Follow Jesus, not KH or JP. They are merely God’s instruments. Love them by all means, but don’t worship them. Only God deserves our worship…be blessed…
pastorsparrots on December 20th, 2009 2:12 am

Ah Huat,

It would be dumb for me to call myself a Parrot too by insinuating that all CHC members are parrots isn’t it. Maybe you should be more careful when you read my comments.

In any case, let’s take criticism in the right spirit. At the end of the day, we are all followers of Jesus. If we allow criticism to degenerate into mudslinging, it ultimately defeats the purpose of criticism as a form of self-reflection.

I hope the leaders of CHC will be more forthcoming in addressing the criticisms put forth against them in a honest and transparent manner. Many of these criticisms raised are valid and genuine, to dismiss them as judging and nonconstructive would be too presumptuous.

In the above respect, I have found the responses of Pastor’s Kong defenders to be wanting. Perhaps things will improve in the future. I think this is the right time to stop the discussion, seeing that people like TKH and Ah Huat remain unmoved by others. I think its time for all of us to reflect on the words spoken here, and think of how we can do church better.

Merry Christmas all!
Balance on December 20th, 2009 2:25 am

Dear All,

I read with curiosity the debate going on, and I perceive that there are really those from NCC in the discussion here …

Firstly, I am not from either church … but I have been curious about a question that I thought I could post to ask anyone from NCC.

I read from Wikipedia about New Creation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Creation_Church.

Is it true that Ps Prince was really paid half a million for the financial year of 2008? If there is true, I think this is more interesting than Ps Kong saying something about cheap grace in Sweden …

Moreover, I read that Ps Prince is on the board of the church management board as well as the corporate arm of NCC- Rock Productions management board. If it is true, I think there is a high possibility of conflict of interests in this matter and it does cast some shadows on the financial integrity of the church?

Sorry to bring up this, but it is just a question that is in my mind, after I read up a little more about NCC? Sorry to CHC if I brought up an irreleveant question to the blog, but I thought maybe someone from NCC could clarify my doubt here …

Thanks in advance for any clarification …

Balance
MyNameIsAhuat on December 20th, 2009 3:05 am

For ■embarrassed on December 20th, 2009 1:15 am

So now you are a parrot for ‘pastorsparrots’. You cool down, why are you so upset with CHC and the Senior Pastor? Or even when Kong Hee is complimented? You spit out godly blessings laced with venom all the time. And minced up the words that you read, also selective mis-quoting out of context for your evil ploy in the name of holiness and of doing good.

I know Who I am worshipping, but do you know who you are working for? Every Christian, even baby ones, know that they worship God and honor Pastors (CHC & others) – except you.

God was being Glorfied by the two megachurches until you and your kind crept in and sow seeds of discord. No one is perfect, but does Pastor Kong deserved to be atacked so viciously? You honor yourself so highly thinking that you are god’s gifted wisdom ejected out of heaven for megachurches. And is THE COMPLETE answer for the Body of Christ esp. megachurch like CHC, but you are not from any of these megachurches. Hah????

Read my posts fully and read all your own words that you wrote before you hastilly frame me into a picture that I am not.

If you want to help, help. God will still be glorified without your unhelpful opinions and attacks here. So stop hissing around and crawl back to the brood from where you came from.
peng on December 20th, 2009 3:06 am

@Balance
“If there is true, I think this is more interesting than Ps Kong saying something about cheap grace in Sweden …”

Firstly, I am not from NCC and I beg to differ with that statement.

Like ‘pastorspoarrot’, I am also a long time CHC member and there are many times and many issues which were pointed out in this blogs and comments which I do find them valid such as the way the system runs, the culture, and more importantly the spirit and purpose behind the Church’s directions and projects.

While I agree that my Senior Pastor is a great man of God who has had great achievements, dreams, visions and mandates to fulfill, and has inspired me personally in my life, it still doesn’t write off the fact that he is just an ordinary man like us – imperfect and fallible. We all have room to make mistakes. We all have space to fail.

My concern to the CHC-ers is that should one day our Senior Pastor Kong Hee make a mistake (be it on a blog, via YouTube, on the pulpit or whatever), are we willing to forgive and set our focus back onto Jesus. Or will we, as many CHC-ers have appeared in their commentaries to be just another pastor’s parrot to defend and attack every critic which may not be good for us in the long term? Or will we be secure enough to let God deal with it and be humble if one day we do make mistakes as a church on a whole…

My voice to NCC-ers, I have heard from my NCC friends that your Senior Pastor Joseph Prince have told the congregation not to rebut or retaliate on the social networks – for it will be a borrowed strength of sin and condemnation. So let’s make peace, be secure in God that He will take care of these two men, and let’s all be sons and daughters, Sisters and Brothers that can accept and love one another, in spite of our differences. Look unto Jesus!

To address Balance, I have also heard from my friend that it was announced that Pastor Prince gave S$560,000 to the Church last year, which is actually more than the S$550,000 salary he received.

I can’t speak for both Pastors – you may want to ask Pastor Kong’s PA or Pastor’s Prince’s team regarding specific details of how they receive their income and expenditure. Whatever it is, I respect their decisions. Peace out, blessed x’mas

xoxo
MyNameIsAhuat on December 20th, 2009 3:19 am

For■Balance on December 20th, 2009 2:25 am

It would be wise if you direct your questions to New Creation Church’s public relations. Thank you.
FearGod on December 20th, 2009 9:13 pm

To Balance,

I think you should really refer your question to NCC ministry or their respective blog. I don’t think it is appropriate to discuss about another pastor’s income here …

To Peng,

I agree that our Senior pastor is not perfect, but I sincerely feel also in this matter, it was a deliberate attempt by some people with a motive to cast a shadow to Pastor’s character. The preaching in Sweden was way back in 2007, and if there was an issue, it would have surface then. Also I am sure that the pastors will be able to sort the things out as men of God at their level. Why do the memebrs need to bring up such an old issue and cause division in this blog?

Personally, I feel that it is not necessary to discuss this matter as it is really irrevelvant to the blog topic here. So to people like Matthew, embarrassed, amy and pastorsparrot, it would be wise not to further any discussion. (Else I really have doubts about your motives …)

May the Lord blessed us with a great Christmas!

FearGod
samemichaellow on December 20th, 2009 10:51 pm

For those of you who got say the lautar got slime JP, my advice is just to move on. You oni got flog dead horse when you keep going over same point after point. I think you sure can see CHC devotees sure to deny their lautar got do such thing, tio boh? However right you got present evidence and argument is oso no point, you not get any agreement from devotees. Can see the examples I give?

Devotee #1 is argue from doctored video argument. “I really double the reliability of the “source” of so called sermons from Pastor Kong in Youtube and other links that quoted by other people here – since nowadays technology is so advanced and it is not difficult to fake a sermons.” The voice also got Swedish translation can so easy be faked ahhh? If want fake, no need bother to put in Swedish translation, tio boh?

Devotee #2 is argue from devotional ignorance “However I would like to say that in my own experience I have never known Pastor Kong to ridicule anyone, and definitely not any ‘other’ megachurch pastor or his flock.” No need got bother to check evidence, since she got faith in her own faith. So just because she got faith, is OK, no need for objective examination.

Devotee #3 is from sanctimonious argument ““Listening to the speech, I can only conclude that Ps Kong is making a factual statement about the false teaching of cheap grace…. For preaching the truth? I think the speech is not falsely accusing anyone”

Same argument got give by another devotee “So, I think in the message it is clear that Pastor is not making a personal attack. Furthermore if you look at the context of the message rather than the one or two lines that you guys are quoting, he is talking about a kind of teaching that he is against.”

This argument got claim to speak for God against untruth. How to argue with sanctimony?

Devotee #4 is arguing from legalism. “Where did Pst Kong criticize another pastor? On his blog of the subject of the 10 commandments? No pastor’s name was mentioned. On his sermon in Sweden? No pastor’s name was mentioned. Substantiate your criticism please.”

So you got see? You cannot be seen as reasonable. But if you got truly believe in righteous God who punish rebellion, you not worried if no one got believe you. Remember Jeremiah preach truth over and over yet oso how many people got see his point? If you got read Psalm 73, you must know “those who are far from you will perish, you destroy all who are unfaithful to you”. Unrighteousness oso get wages from God. Sometime get wages in this life, sometime get ‘wages’ in eternity. Is better to get disciplined now then in eternity wif weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So is my advice, let it go and commit matter to God. Better to see God work than to use own strength to flog dead horse. I got wish you all a God-blessed Christmas.
MyNameIsAhuat on December 21st, 2009 7:54 am

For pastorsparrots on December 20th, 2009 2:12 am

QUOTE:
Judging from the comments from Pastor Kong’s defenders, it appears that my thesis is proven right: there are indeed many Pastor’s Parrots in this blog. …….

Get this into your head, Leila: ask around the other CHC members if Pastor Kong is referring to Pastor Prince. Don’t comment if you have no understanding of the situation.

And this brings me to my question: If Kong Hee can openly criticise another pastor, what stops others from criticising him so? Double-standard indeed! ……….

It would be dumb for me to call myself a Parrot too by insinuating that all CHC members are parrots isn’t it. Maybe you should be more careful when you read my comments.

In any case, let’s take criticism in the right spirit. At the end of the day, we are all followers of Jesus. If we allow criticism to degenerate into mudslinging, it ultimately defeats the purpose of criticism as a form of self-reflection. ……..

In the above respect, I have found the responses of Pastor’s Kong defenders to be wanting. Perhaps things will improve in the future. I think this is the right time to stop the discussion, seeing that people like TKH and Ah Huat remain unmoved by others. I think its time for all of us to reflect on the words spoken here, and think of how we can do church better
UNQUOTE.

THIS IS MY ANSWER:

If Peng is correct about you, as I understand, you must be one standing amongsts the top leadership of CHC, For me, I am just an ordinary imperfect guy seeking after God, thru imperfect Pastors like Kong and Peng from CHC. Unlike you, I do not spend years on thesis to prove that the leadership is wrong and that I am so clever. And also go and gather opinions among the congregation just to support my ‘thesis’.

I shall be unmoved in defence against the wrong spirits of people with hidden agendas to personally hurt my Snr.Pastor and his family, just for a small error he made. Instead there should have been a closed door meeting among the top leaderships and inter-church meeting to resolve this petty matter. We are not blind parrots but faithful to our team.

But you, my friend, have played the Edomite. As a General, you have drawn your sword againt the Commander-in-Chief and some of his flock. I count you unworthy to be anyone’s shephard.
Maybe you should rename your pseudonym from “pastorsparrot” to “Ham – 3rd. Son of Noah”

These are my parting words to you. Now you take my crticism in good spirit and do real some self-reflecting.

Signing out,
NameIsAhuat.

I lay down my sword, for my ways are lower than Your ways O’Lord, and my thoughts are lower than Your thoughts. For You and You only have I sinned. Pardon Me O’Lord.
pastorsparrots on December 21st, 2009 9:57 am

Ah Huat,

you are so off-base about me that I don’t know where to begin. Me in the top leadership? Wow I’m flattered. I have more in common with you than you’d like to think.

Now, stop sounding so angry already. You call me an Edomite without knowing me. That doesn’t make you any better than the people you criticise!

Since you admit that pastor has made “a small error”, I wonder if you have raised this among the leadership in CHC? have you spoken to the leaders about it, and what was their response?

In any case, I am hardly a general in CHC, just a foot soldier who got sick of the way things are run and done around here.

Let’s chill shall we? This is Christmas season ;-)
MyNameIsAhuat on December 21st, 2009 11:53 am

For pastorsparrots on December 21st, 2009 9:57 am

My sincere apologies, you are not a General.
You are just a CHC foot soldier who got sick of the way things are run and done around here.

I have no problem with CHC and not angry with you, just answering what you said about me earlier.

I can just advise you that it is not healthy for your spiritual life with all these feelings that you have. I can’t speak on your behalf because I am not you. But I can suggest that you approach your Cell Group Leader, Connect Group, Zone Supervisors or Pastors to suggest how you could help improve the CHC system. Trust me, they are very open to suggestions and will gladly hear you out.
You intentions are good.

I’m out of here, no more further entries.

Merry Christmas.

P/S “peng” you want to help out this guy?
matthew on December 21st, 2009 11:55 am

Quote from Ah Huat
I shall be unmoved in defence against the wrong spirits of people with hidden agendas to personally hurt my Snr.Pastor and his family, just for a small error he made.

Unquote.

It is ok, Ah Huat, God will bless you dearly for daring to speak out in defence of your Pastor. We are all human and we all make mistakes, including our Pastors who are also work in progress.

Only Jesus is Perfect.
Amy on December 21st, 2009 1:37 pm

The following exchanges between pastorsparrots and ah huat remind me so much about the King with the invisible clothes. His subjects were so much in awe of him that they did not even dare to tell him that he was naked!

Quote: pastorsparrots on December 21st, 2009 9:57 am

Ah Huat,

you are so off-base about me that I don’t know where to begin. Me in the top leadership? Wow I’m flattered. I have more in common with you than you’d like to think.

Now, stop sounding so angry already. You call me an Edomite without knowing me. That doesn’t make you any better than the people you criticise!

Since you admit that pastor has made “a small error”, I wonder if you have raised this among the leadership in CHC? have you spoken to the leaders about it, and what was their response?

In any case, I am hardly a general in CHC, just a foot soldier who got sick of the way things are run and done around here.

Let’s chill shall we? This is Christmas season ;-)

MyNameIsAhuat on December 21st, 2009 11:53 am

For pastorsparrots on December 21st, 2009 9:57 am

My sincere apologies, you are not a General.
You are just a CHC foot soldier who got sick of the way things are run and done around here.

I have no problem with CHC and not angry with you, just answering what you said about me earlier.

I can just advise you that it is not healthy for your spiritual life with all these feelings that you have. I can’t speak on your behalf because I am not you. But I can suggest that you approach your Cell Group Leader, Connect Group, Zone Supervisors or Pastors to suggest how you could help improve the CHC system. Trust me, they are very open to suggestions and will gladly hear you out.
You intentions are good.

I’m out of here, no more further entries.

Merry Christmas.

P/S “peng” you want to help out this guy? Unquote

What small error is that? Think of credibility.:)
BayeeSingh on December 21st, 2009 2:37 pm

To Ben Jen on December 21st, 2009 1:13 pm

Aiyoyoh! Just because you didn’t get to marry Kong Hee …U so jealous. Nevermind … I from India…very handsome.

U can become my wife and we charloh .. charloh to Punjab dah?

How d bout it sister.. brother allso can.

Kiss Kiss.
pastorsparrots on December 21st, 2009 2:53 pm

Ah Huat,

I have done precisely that. My leaders know exactly what I think and feel.

Anyway, glad to have talked to you. Now we know where we are coming from.

Terence
Ben Jen on December 21st, 2009 6:20 pm

To BayeeSingh on December 21st, 2009 2:37 pm

lol no thanks I don’t like balding men like Kong and I can’t stand BO like yours!
Amy on December 21st, 2009 9:56 pm

To Ah huat

In response to your statement on 19th Dec as copied below:
Read this: http://sg.christianpost.com/dbase.php?cat=education&id=768. Actually Kenneth Copeland Ministries sounded familiar because I thought the name was mentioned on Capt Jong’s website? Or are you Capt Jong?

Quote: MyNameIsAhuat on December 19th, 2009 8:11 am

Dear ■TKH_original and ■leila,

Well said. Jesus is still Lord !

I love Pastor Kong Hee and CHC (Word of Life) and I am a partner of Kenneth Copeland Ministries (Word of Faith) and Benny Hinn Ministries. I have many good friends from New Creation Church aka the ROCK, but none like these few.

These few people, clearly? from the ROCK, but kept claiming they are not, obviously took great offence more than JP would ever have had in the Swedish preaching. From the YouTube we can all hear that Pastor Kong never mentioned any specific names or churches; he was adressing the topic on the possible misuse of Grace issue to an affliate Word of Life church, never intended for ‘CNN’ viewers.

All of a sudden they became self-appointed Judge-Jury-Executioner and went on a personal rampage of mocking Kong Hee & wife with the most vile and derogatory labels and language, outdoing even the most vulgar worldy person I ever came across. Not only on this blog alone but so many other forums and blogs in the intenet. So some of us pull out our ’swords’ to fend off CHC and Kong’s attackers. The are like crazies – Goliath and his mockers – and some from CHC even played David’s brothers to discourage us from battle? Wise? Maybe on hindsight.

Then we were reminded of what the Word said; love your enemies, be patient, long-suffering, and forgiving and pray for them. And we put our ’swords’ away, offered our reasoning and other cheek. We prayed and say Amen together. Shortly the onslaught started again. We took after our Pastor’s meekness in silence and they see it as weakness and mocked again and again.

A wise school teacher once said:
“Stupid – can cure. Stubborn – can cure.
Stupid and Stubborn – No Cure!”
but we can add to it “with God all things are possible. Amen”

NCC teachings resembles nothing like the original Word of Faith Kenneth Copeland Ministries. Just look at their mockers – unteachable with the heart of rock (big stone). They claimed that JP is so graceful but yet don’t follow their pastor’s ‘cool’ example.

Here some of us may be stupid but highly teachable We don’t bang our heads and roll on the floor in tantrums to DEMAND an apology from a Senior Pastor just because we perceived and feel that another Senior Pastor, not from our church had been ‘wronged’. Who do we think we are? GOD on Judgement Day ? Summoning all His servant kings…..explain…explain….why why why? ..apologise! No we don’t, we pray, we ask for forgiveness for our weaknesses and we forgive others’ weakneeses and move on with God.

So we follow the good example that Jesus taught our Snr.Pastor.
Just ignore these mockers, let them wallow and roll in their own mudpit, for fools are un-reasonable, full of hatred and offence and destructions lay in their path.

Be still and stand in awe of our Mighty God. For our mockers, vengenge is not ours but the Lord’s. Repent while you may from your foolish words. While the Grace of God is abundant and abounds, make no mistake about it, be OBEDIENT and do not put the Lord your God to the test, lest you be judged.

Hallelujah
Glory to God
Amen.Unquote
re-discover « Goodwoodhill’s Weblog on December 22nd, 2009 3:23 am

[...] http://www.konghee.com/www/2009/12/power-of-fasting/ – my fasting is coming to an end. after reading this article, it really makes me want to do [...]
FearGod on December 22nd, 2009 5:52 am

Dear All,

It’s only a few days to Christmas … let’s remember the Spirit of this season, as in Lk 2:14 “Glory to God in the Highest, on earth peace and good will to men.”

Let there be peace and good wll to obe another …

May the Lord bless all of us as we celebrate the wondrous birth of Christ …

Fear God
Balance on December 22nd, 2009 6:19 am

Dear All,

I apolgize for my inappropriate question on Ps Prince’s salary … especially to “highjack” Ps Kong’s blog for my own curiousity …

However, I must say that I am disappointed that none of the NCC members answered my question … well, I guess it is difficult to explain why a Pastor need so much money after all, it was the almost same amount of money the church gave for community for that same period … Pardon my curiousity …

Anyway, Merry Christmas to all …

Balance
MyNameIsAhuat on December 22nd, 2009 10:47 am

For ■Amy on December 21st, 2009 9:56 pm

I feel sorry for you. You must be highly dellusional to take me for somebody else; you better seek medical help before its too late.

Secondly, when you attack Kenneth Copeland Ministries, you attack the Word of Faith people , which means that you are attacking NEW CREATION CHURCH.

The are thousands of supporters of KCM here in Singapore.

Peace out.
Love on December 22nd, 2009 12:04 pm

Hi CHC-ers,

I went to the candlelight service last week and heard about Janelle & Christine and there was an impression upon my heart on meditation on the word of God. It is really important and I pray that someone will pass the message to them. As I am only a visitor to your church, I don’t know who to turn to but here. I have been prompted again & again to write this and so here I am.

Prov. 4:20-22

” 20 My child, pay attention to what I say.
Listen carefully to my words.

21 Don’t lose sight of them.
Let them penetrate deep into your heart,

22 for they bring life to those who find them,
and healing to their whole body.”

I pray that their family members or the good hearts who visit them can spend the time to read & meditate the word of God with them. A verse a day to meditate & may you & both of them speak healing for themselves. Meditating on it throughout the day, May their souls & spirits be build up. May doubts be washed away & the love of God dwell deeply in their hearts & the hearts of the family members. May the joy of the Lord be their strength on & on. And may the Lord bring healing to them through the power of His Word.

Heb 4:12
“For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow.”

John 1:1
“In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

There is no one way to healing – my godmother was healed of internal bleeding through prayers before she was a believer, other testimonies I’ve come across are through speaking the Word of God and etc. Jesus is definitely our healer, no matter we pray, speak or meditate.

I hope someone will pass the message… Spirit of God please guide…

May the Holy Spirit guide them & heal them too.
*Sending prayers to heaven*

May the love of God dwell with you all this season.
*Hugs*
BayeeSingh on December 28th, 2009 7:48 pm

To Ben Jen on December 28th, 2009 12:04 pm

Huh..Huh..Huh..little twit BENJEN7

Why don’t you sit on yourself and making yourself disappear!
Small little witch. And re-appear into NCC for good … ya..hah hah hah…….WooHoo!

Hatcha! Cannot find your broom?

Ahh…ha..ha..ha..har!!
BayeeSingh on December 28th, 2009 8:06 pm

To Ben Jen,

Or maibe U want to sitting on my baiyee and making it disappear and see your wringkle smoothen out and U grow taller by 9 inchis.

Ya huh huh huh huh…dar!!!
TKH_original on December 28th, 2009 11:19 pm

Dear Ben Jen,

I supposed you are a member of NCC.

Your comments will reflect badly on your character, as well as the reputation of your church. I hope this is not what your church has taught you, as it reflects nothing of the grace of God.

Also y